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Subject: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Comcast Sux on 11/17/05 at 2:56 pm

Do you think evil exists, like a force, or do you think people just decide to do stuff that is evil?

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Davester on 11/17/05 at 3:11 pm

  Ethics - study of morality.

  Morality - striving towards an Eternal Supreme Goal.

  Because there are countless Eternal Supreme Goals there are a plurality of moralities.


  This should probably wind up in Pol/Rel...or Philosophy, if there was such a forum...

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Comcast Sux on 11/17/05 at 3:50 pm

No, I don't mean from a religious standpoint.  That's not opinion really, that's just what you believe.  I mean scientifically.  I ask because I hear a lot of atheist people saying that people are evil, and I don't know what they mean.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: barefootrobin on 11/17/05 at 4:27 pm

Athiests believe that evil lies in the hearts of men - mankind inflicts evil on it's own - not "the devil made me do it".

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Mushroom on 11/17/05 at 4:37 pm

Yes, I very much believe in evil.

Rapists, child molestors, murderers, genocide, racism, religious opression.  These are all perfect examples of evil.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/17/05 at 5:19 pm


Yes, I very much believe in evil.

Rapists, child molestors, murderers, genocide, racism, religious opression.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Naomi2005 on 11/17/05 at 6:21 pm

Since life began we have always had evil on earth, Eve was tempted to eat the apple by the serpent sorry when humans arrived there was already evil here or we would all be living in paradise now... We dont need to look far to see evil its everywhere, just sit in your house and watch the tv you will see evil things happening...

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tanya1976 on 11/17/05 at 7:47 pm

Without a doubt!

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Lara Spencer on 11/17/05 at 8:24 pm

I don't think there's such a thing as 'evil', I think people do evil things.  If I believed in evil like some unstoppable force, I'd be depressed.  :(

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tia on 11/17/05 at 9:04 pm

the strange thing about evil is its certitude that it's good. somehow i don't think hitler ever wondered about the rightness of his aims, or jeffrey dahmer lay awake at night tortured by his conscience. very strange, that.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/17/05 at 9:34 pm


the strange thing about evil is its certitude that it's good. somehow i don't think hitler ever wondered about the rightness of his aims, or jeffrey dahmer lay awake at night tortured by his conscience. very strange, that.

A while back a buddy of mine were trying to decide of Dahmer was truly evil.  We agreed serial murderers such as Ted Bundy (especially Ted with his little smirk that said, "I killed 100 college girl you'll never even find!), but why was it I had trouble seeing Dahmer as truly evil.  Is evil something you are or something you do?  What Dahmer did was most evil indeed, but I found Dahmers pathos mitigating.  Dahmer's little-boy-lost demeanor, Dahmer's explanation that he "only wanted a zombie sex slave that could never leave him, and would always be under his control."
OK, Dahmer was evil.  Pathetic to the nth degree, but if evil exists, Dahmer was it!
:o

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/18/05 at 11:47 am

Charles Manson.....Adolf Hitler....Josef Stalin........Osama Bin Laden.....Carlos the Jackal.......John Wayne Gacy.....Ted Bundy.....Jeffrey Dahmer....David Berkowitz(Son of Sam)....James Earl Ray.....The Ku Klux Klan.....Richard Butler(deceased head of the Aryan Nations Church)...Richard Speck....Ed Gein.....Lee Harvey Oswald...Byron De La Beckwith....David Duke.....John Gotti....Nicodemo Scarfo.....Carlos Gambino....Pablo Escobar....Jim Jones.....Richard Ramirez....Saddam Hussein AND his sons Uday and Qusay.....The SS aka the Gestapo....the KGB.....all have done truly EVIL, despicable acts against humanity.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Ophrah on 11/18/05 at 11:55 am

People do terrible things, but there's no such thing as "evil".

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tia on 11/18/05 at 12:40 pm


Charles Manson.....Adolf Hitler....Josef Stalin........Osama Bin Laden.....Carlos the Jackal.......John Wayne Gacy.....Ted Bundy.....Jeffrey Dahmer....David Berkowitz(Son of Sam)....James Earl Ray.....The Ku Klux Klan.....Richard Butler(deceased head of the Aryan Nations Church)...Richard Speck....Ed Gein.....Lee Harvey Oswald...Byron De La Beckwith....David Duke.....John Gotti....Nicodemo Scarfo.....Carlos Gambino....Pablo Escobar....Jim Jones.....Richard Ramirez....Saddam Hussein AND his sons Uday and Qusay.....The SS aka the Gestapo....the KGB.....all have done truly EVIL, despicable acts against humanity.

Funny about the KGB. The CIA has done some boocoo evil things too -- forcefeeding LSD to the mentally ill, for starters -- but they don't make the evil list. I don't wanna go into a political digression but so much of what we call evil is culturally determined, y'know?

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: barefootrobin on 11/18/05 at 12:46 pm

From the Merriam Webster Dictionary

Note:  nothing about satan or religion and, if it's in the dictionary then there is such a thing as evil.


Main Entry: 1evil
Pronunciation: 'E-v&l, British often and US also 'E-(")vil
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): evil

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Ophrah on 11/18/05 at 12:55 pm


From the Merriam Webster Dictionary

Note:

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Davester on 11/18/05 at 3:06 pm


No, I don't mean from a religious standpoint.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: barefootrobin on 11/18/05 at 3:08 pm


Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Davester on 11/18/05 at 3:09 pm


What specific notion of evil are you referring too?


  The notion of evil, in general...

  And I'm not referring to it, silly, he is... :D

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Comcast Sux on 11/18/05 at 3:14 pm


Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Davester on 11/18/05 at 3:18 pm


No, I'm saying





  Which atheist people are saying what people are evil?

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tia on 11/18/05 at 3:26 pm


No, I'm saying





i'm not sure though that a religious person would necessarily have a more solid definition of good or evil just because they have deities (or anti-dieties) to attribute these qualities to. Saying "evil comes from satan" is just a way of kicking down the road. You then have to define "satan" or what specifically makes him evil.

I say this as an agnostic -- there probably are guiding intelligences/whatever in the universe but I doubt they look much like what our religions imagine. And on that scale good and evil probably don't mean much -- only us, with our limited perspectives, would get worked up about things like suffering. On a larger scale even people like Jeffrey dahmer msut have a reason for existing, because they exist.

A friend of mine is fond of saying "the universe is working perfectly." Which is different from saying it's working the way we'd like it to.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Davester on 11/18/05 at 4:00 pm



A friend of mine is fond of saying "the universe is working perfectly." Which is different from saying it's working the way we'd like it to.



  I like that one...

  To keep it simple, I think any die-hard atheist would outright reject the notion of "ultimate evil", "ultimate love" and such.  These views are usually theistic in nature.  Then we get into worldviews, moral relativity, origins of morality and, ultimately, "God or no God"...

  The term "evil" can be thrown around by any who feel either:
A) their ethics have been violated or,
B) society's ethics have been violated

  Heck, I sometimes use God's name in vain when I stub my toe...

 

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/18/05 at 6:44 pm


Funny about the KGB. The CIA has done some boocoo evil things too -- forcefeeding LSD to the mentally ill, for starters -- but they don't make the evil list. I don't wanna go into a political digression but so much of what we call evil is culturally determined, y'know?
I forgot the CIA...and Manuel Noriega, Ferdinand Marcos, Augusto Pinochet, Josef Mengele(the Nazi 'angel of death'), Adolf Eichmann, Klaus Barbie(the Butcher of Lyon), King Herod, members of the Taliban, John Hinckley, Mark Chapman, Sun Myung Moon, Timothy McVeigh, child molesters, rapists, even politicians....

Everyone has the potential to do evil. It's just that most of us know right from wrong, and most of us have a conscience that keeps us from doing evil things.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Skippy on 11/18/05 at 10:25 pm

Behold the EVIL ONE !!!!
http://img.sheezyart.com/preview/14/147090.jpg
Fear the EVIL

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: IanWinn on 11/19/05 at 2:37 am

Narrator:  We go now to the planet Heck, where Evil the Cat, foe of virtue, worships at the altar of vileness.

Evil the Cat:  I'm just watching TV.

Narrator:  Same thing. (rimshot)

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: IanWinn on 11/19/05 at 2:50 am

In a more serious vein, evil does exist in the world.  It exists in the human heart, where it wars with man's capacity for goodness constantly.  It can be tamed and controlled somewhat, but it can never be defeated except by the power of God Almighty.  That only comes when one surrenders himself to God Almighty.  Does a change happen overnight?  No, because the ego does get in the way, and God Almighty honors free will.  The more you submit to Him, the more evil is conquered, and the more righteous you become in His sight, until you are perfected.

Have I been perfected yet?  No, but I am on my way.  Those who hear His voice are also on their way.  Those who ignore His voice are on their path as well.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/19/05 at 3:18 am

Kevin: Yes, why do we have to have evil?
God: Ah... I think it's something to do with free will.

--Time Bandits

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/19/05 at 4:17 am

I wonder if George W. Bush believes in evil....he,the president who STOLE the presidency, probably thinks the Democrats are evil!!

George W.-'Cheney, the Democrats claim we STOLE the White House! Isn't that so dam funny!'

Cheney-'Hahahahahahahahaha! Yeah right we stole the White House! Just because your brother Jeb in Florida TAMPERED with the election results, we STOLE the White House! Jeb just made sure you got in for a second term, what's so wrong with that MUAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!'

Now that's EVIL.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tia on 11/19/05 at 9:01 am


I wonder if George W. Bush believes in evil....he,the president who STOLE the presidency, probably thinks the Democrats are evil!!

George W.-'Cheney, the Democrats claim we STOLE the White House! Isn't that so dam funny!'

Cheney-'Hahahahahahahahaha! Yeah right we stole the White House! Just because your brother Jeb in Florida TAMPERED with the election results, we STOLE the White House! Jeb just made sure you got in for a second term, what's so wrong with that MUAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!'

Now that's EVIL.


it was that 2000 election that first got me thinking there was something rotten in the state of denmark, i tell ya.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: LyricBoy on 11/19/05 at 9:19 am


DON'T FORGET THIS MOFO
http://wilsonhellie.typepad.com/for_the_record/pictures/koolaid7-thumb.jpg
CHOOSE EVIL!



Maxwell,

Did you ever notice that American Idol winner Fantasia also bears a striking resemblence to "Hey Kool Aid" too?

;D

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Mushroom on 11/19/05 at 10:36 am


I wonder if George W. Bush believes in evil....he,the president who STOLE the presidency, probably thinks the Democrats are evil!!


Oh please, this has been done to death over the last 6 years.

And yes, he was so evil that he won decisively 4 years later.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tia on 11/19/05 at 10:43 am


Oh please, this has been done to death over the last 6 years.

And yes, he was so evil that he won decisively 4 years later.


well, he sorta ran on the fear ticket. You know, vote for me or die. And even with that, and with kerry as the biggest milquetoast candidate since Dukakis, he still could only muster, what was it, 51%? Hardly a "decisive" victory.

But we digress.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/19/05 at 8:55 pm

Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin could win a 'ultimate evildoers' prize for being absolutely bloodthirsty dictators...Hitler for the Holocaust, and Stalin for his pogroms against both Christians and Jews! But Stalin killed the most people...over 23 million killed in the name of Communism and religious intolerance!

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Apricot on 11/19/05 at 9:09 pm

Of course evil exists.. I don't believe in any spirtiual powers, but I do believe that some people are corrupt, based on their personalities, worldviews, and upbringings. Or, some good people are occasionally lead to corrupt acts.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/20/05 at 6:49 am

I have to wonder if the money-hungry televangelists are somewhat  'evil'.....Since Jesus did not ask anyone to give him whatever money was in Biblical times for him to be their Savior...or even to heal them.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Apricot on 11/20/05 at 2:07 pm


I have to wonder if the money-hungry televangelists are somewhat

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/20/05 at 9:11 pm


Well, it costs money to get on television and spread your word.
In the case of Pat Robertson, he OWNS the CBN network..which is where the 700 Club is taped!! So where do YOU think someone like Robertson is putting at least some of the money...IN HIS BIG FAT BANK ACCOUNT!!!

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tony20fan4ever on 11/20/05 at 9:15 pm

What about Jimmy Swaggart? He had a little fling with one of those Red Light Specials..and most people know what a Red Light district is all about...."Forgive me for I have sinned"...Yeah Swaggart, and you had the nerve to rag on one of your relatives for being a rock 'n roll star...Yep, Jimmy Swaggart is related to Jerry Lee Lewis!

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/20/05 at 11:42 pm


Of course evil exists.. I don't believe in any spirtiual powers, but I do believe that some people are corrupt, based on their personalities, worldviews, and upbringings. Or, some good people are occasionally lead to corrupt acts.

Even so, it's hard to explain guys like Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy.  Neuroscientists are narrowing it down to electrical impulses.  Your brain starts throwing the wrong switches at the wrong times and you get a person who will eat your liver for lunch!

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: GodIsLove on 11/21/05 at 9:15 am

I think Evil is relatives.  Cultures have done things in that past that we consider evil today, even though they were mainstream then. And there are a lot of things we think are normal today that might be considered evil later on.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tia on 11/21/05 at 9:35 am


I think Evil is relatives.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: IanWinn on 11/21/05 at 11:41 am

Evil is NOT relative.  But the redefinition of evil is gradual.  Before I was born, abortion was considered murder UNLESS the woman could not survive pregnancy.  When I was a young pup, abortion suddenly became legal because the unborn child was considered "not human".  Today, we have psychopaths like Peter Singer saying that parents should have until 30 days after the birth of the child to legally kill it.  Others are advocating up to 2 years of age.

Today, there is debate in Congress as to whether or not the EPA should relax the rules to allow testing of poisons and pesticides on young children, specifically children who are orphans or in foster care.  They are also debating whether they need the consent of the children's guardians to include them in these tests.  Read the story here:  http://www.organicconsumers.org/epa6.cfm

With the murder of Terri Schindler, it is now becoming common practice to kill disabled people.  The more merciful will slip a syringe of into their victim's IV and let them drift off to sleep.  The more sadistic will deprive their victims of food and water, much like Terri.  And yet this woman's husband, Michael Schiavo, and his scumbag attorney, said that her death was a beautiful, peaceful, and painless thing (if any of you have gone a day without food, that's nothing compared to starving to death, but you get a tiny idea).  The disabled are not being considered "not human".  Anyone who has studied history, especially the history of Nazi Germany, will see a horrifying paralell.

How long will it be before YOU are considered "not human"?

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: GodIsLove on 11/21/05 at 11:50 am


Evil is NOT relative.

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: Tia on 11/21/05 at 12:05 pm

they were having a callin show on c-span this morning talking about "intelligent design" and the question was, should we teach ID alongside evolution as a viable alternative to evolution? and they were all, are these two possibilities equally viable relative to each other? (i happen to think this whole intelligent design tripe is gonna be the end of science as we know it, but that's another discussion...) and this lady calls and says, it's NOT relative! creationism is the only reality and evolution is a lie perpetrated by satan! i know this because i know the word of god as set out in the bible!

and that's the bit about religion that scares me sometimes, not about all people who are religious but some folks just take their faith as an absolute reality and wouldn't hesitate to impose that reality on everyone around them, if given the chance. so i get a little nervous when people say things like "evil is not relative."

at the same time, moral relativism can go way overboard, too, so that you can get people saying, well, slavery was okay because when it was going on in this country everybody thought it was okay. prespammersite ideas like that. you know, all other things being equal murder is always wrong, slavery is always wrong... it's a matter of finding that middle ground between relative and absolute judgments, and that's hard as heck to do.

that said, that stuff about toxins and orphans is pretty scary. and there's definitely two sides to the terry schiavo case. (the "schindler" slip is quite interesting!  ;))

Subject: Re: Do You Believe In Evil?

Written By: GodIsLove on 11/21/05 at 2:03 pm


they were having a callin show on c-span this morning talking about "intelligent design" and the question was, should we teach ID alongside evolution as a viable alternative to evolution? and they were all, are these two possibilities equally viable relative to each other? (i happen to think this whole intelligent design tripe is gonna be the end of science as we know it, but that's another discussion...) and this lady calls and says, it's NOT relative! creationism is the only reality and evolution is a lie perpetrated by satan! i know this because i know the word of god as set out in the bible!

and that's the bit about religion that scares me sometimes, not about all people who are religious but some folks just take their faith as an absolute reality and wouldn't hesitate to impose that reality on everyone around them, if given the chance. so i get a little nervous when people say things like "evil is not relative."

at the same time, moral relativism can go way overboard, too, so that you can get people saying, well, slavery was okay because when it was going on in this country everybody thought it was okay. prespammersite ideas like that. you know, all other things being equal murder is always wrong, slavery is always wrong... it's a matter of finding that middle ground between relative and absolute judgments, and that's hard as heck to do.

that said, that stuff about toxins and orphans is pretty scary. and there's definitely two sides to the terry schiavo case. (the "schindler" slip is quite interesting!

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