In the 70's, 80's, and 90's rock music was king. In the late 90's/early 00's something happened. Does anybody think here that rap music is what rock music used to be in terms rebbelion? I mean I think when parents see kids watching all those rap music video's with the girls showing alot of skin and the parents I think are scared of that. Rock music is basically on the back burner. I mean a group like Nickleback I really don't define as rock. In the 90's parents were scared of the Nine Inch Nails music video for "Closer" and Nirvana's video for Smells Like Teen Spirit" I also think in the 80's parents didn't like their kids watching a music video like Van Halens "Hot For Teacher". Now you have girls in rapper 50 Cent's rap music video's. What is everybody's opinion on this?

Only if there is no GOD :P

this is a stupid question.


When rap started in the late 70s it was used the same way music by Dylan and Phil Ochs was used.  It was to highlight the problems in the black neighborhoods.  (yes, you had 'fun' songs like "Rappers delight" that werent for social issues, but those more resembled their older brother funk). 

I guess one could say that yes, rap was all about rebellion then.  At least most of it was.

After time you got your RUN DMCs and Beastie Boys and LL Cool Js...rappers that were more about fun than fixing problems...they still all had that piece of rebellion in them the same way The MC5 had rebellion in them, or The Stooges were rebellious...that way was because rap wasnt mainstream....for some reason people are more hostile towards music that isnt mainstream....even if the lyrics go along the lines of "White lines, dont do them". 

Now rap is completely mainstream.  Recently formally underground acts like THe Black EYed Peas (they were underground!) THe Roots and Jurassic 5 have all gotten mainstream audiences.  Theres nothing shocking in mainstream rap these days unless you sing about loving Jesus....like Kanye West did in "Jesus Walks".  Kanye is the rebellious one now....not Fat Joe singing about finding some 'hos'. 

So to answer the question, is rap the new rock and roll...no!  Rock will always be around and will always be popular.  Rap isnt going away anytime soon either.  Both will coexist, and every few years, some underground act will scare the crap out of everybody because its too 'rebellious'...at least it will scare everyone until it becomes mainstream again. 

Rap is more mainstream now then before, but I'm always shocked at how many people who critisize rap keep bringing up Ice-T's 1991 cop killer rap.  That was 14 years ago, but you'll always find people acting like that was something recent.  They know so little about rap, so they only remember that one.  (not that I'm advocating any of the violence in rap videos)

And yes I do believe that White suburban kids use rap to piss off their parents, something that really took off in the late 90s.  The interesting thing is that rock was originally primarily "a Black thing" back in the 1950s, but rock is hardly ever associated with the Black culture in America anymore.

^real rock acknowledges it's black roots. However, a lot of today's pseudo-rock really isn't rock. It's just another form of pop.

In the 70's, 80's, and 90's rock music was king. In the late 90's/early 00's something happened. Does anybody think here that rap music is what rock music used to be in terms rebbelion? I mean I think when parents see kids watching all those rap music video's with the girls showing alot of skin and the parents I think are scared of that. Rock music is basically on the back burner. I mean a group like Nickleback I really don't define as rock. In the 90's parents were scared of the Nine Inch Nails music video for "Closer" and Nirvana'<a  style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=24&k=s%20video" onmouseover="window.status='s video'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">s video</a> for Smells Like Teen Spirit" I also think in the 80's parents didn't like their kids watching a music video like Van Halens "Hot For Teacher". Now you have girls in rapper 50 Cent's rap music video's. What is everybody's opinion on this?


I think you need to elaborate more on this, because you got one hell of a point on your hands.  I see exactly what your saying.  I think the closest comparisson you'll find between Rap and Rock n Roll is people's attitudes towards it in the era inwhich the popularity for them began.  When Rock n Roll was on it's rise it was the Devil.  Today Rap is the devil.  At one time, "Runaround Sue" a rock n roll song was thought to be incredibly crude and inappropriate, but since the times as well as the people became raunchier over the years, it's looked at today as quite mild.  I"m hoping we don't go all the way down the tube to where, "You babe, me and you go screw like they do on the discovery channel" is looked at as not that bad, to where even 3 year olds are singing along with it on the radio.  It could happen though.

this is a stupid question.



Now rap is completely mainstream.  Recently formally underground acts like THe Black EYed Peas (they were underground!) THe Roots and Jurassic 5 have all gotten mainstream audiences.  Theres nothing shocking in mainstream rap these days unless you sing about loving Jesus....like Kanye West did in "Jesus Walks".  Kanye is the rebellious one now....not Fat Joe singing about finding some 'hos'. 

So to answer the question, is rap the new rock and roll...no!  Rock will always be around and will always be popular.  Rap isnt going away anytime soon either.  Both will coexist, and every few years, some underground act will scare the crap out of everybody because its too 'rebellious'...at least it will scare everyone until it becomes mainstream again. 
Your first Paragraph I'll agree with you The Black Eyed Peas are completely mainstream because they are on Top 40 radio all the time. The Roots really don't have any Top 40 hits. Jurassic 5 I did listen to a couple songs of theirs a few years ago on MTV2 but I don;t hear their songs on even a hip-hop station. I like Kanye even if he does a song like "Golddigger". I thought that song was hilarious until they started overplaying it. As for the rebellious part so you don;t thnk having girls showing alot of skin in today;s rap video's is making a statement of rebillion? I just think it scares the heck of parents the same way rock music video's did in the 80's and 90's like I said before. A Rapper like Eminem will drive parents insane just because of what he raps about.

Rock music I don;t see anybody doing anthing rebellious for the genre to be in the spotlight again. Basically its Green Day and Weezer and thats it. 3 Doors Down is decent. Evanescence will be hard pressed to have an album of good singles like their first one. Those 4 bands aren't even rebellious they are just in the spotlight. Well Green Day a little bit maybe. The last rebellion period that rock music had was the grunge era. I like both rap and rock but the rock music after 1996 the genre itsellf its popularity has dropped because of lack of rebellion I think anyway.

<Start Wishful Thinking>

IMO, I am hoping rap will slowly fade away over the next five years and the now underground indie scene comes forward into the mainstream and begin to dominate the charts say 5-6 years from now. Hey it's starting to happen now with the like of The Shins, Modest Mouse etc having at least 1 or 2 top 40 singles.  8)

<End Wishful Thinking>

Of course rap will always be around, it has been since as long as I can remember, but I can't see it lasting too long in the mainstream like rock has.

Of course rap will always be around, it has been since as long as I can remember, but I can't see it lasting too long in the mainstream like rock has.


Rap feels like it needs attention whether you want to hear it or not. I can't drive around my town without hearing the constant "Boom-Boom" of CRAP reverberating from some guys big truck with tiny little wheels ;D By contrast, Rock "Music" while annoying to it's detractors, never bothered me or was played as loud and insulting as Rap....which is NOT and never will be the true definition of Music. Most, not all, but MOST of it is some guy spewing out hatred towards whatever OR how he laid his latest beeeatch. ::)

Old school rap is better then the stuff now, though I like a few songs from Black Eyed Peas and Outkast, though they've been around for a while.

Sort of since rap is what most of today's youth listen to and isn't liked by most parents.

(Imagine the kid from the Twisted Sister video saying the same speech to his son about his 50 Cent albums)

Old school rap is better then the stuff now, though I like a few songs from Black Eyed Peas and Outkast, though they've been around for a while.

Sort of since rap is what most of today's youth listen to and isn't liked by most parents.

This I agree with.

Although I think the overall consensus of people is that less of them like rap today than less disliked rock in the 50's through the mid 90's. Sure, there were always the Tipper Gores who opposed it, but all in all, rock still was commercial and well-liked enough to cross over to pop radio and the like.

Even though rap is very mainstream today, it still doesn't have that appeal where it's so big and accessible, you'll see 5 year old kids and soccer mom's singing along with it.

(Imagine the kid from the Twisted Sister video saying the same speech to his son about his 50 Cent albums)


Dang, I don't want to think about it being THAT long ago. ;D

Well, I'd say he was about 14, and that video was from 1984, so he'd be like 35 today. Yeah, theoretically I guess it's possible, but for someone his age to have a full-fledged teenager (unless he had a kid when he was 20, for instance) that would be closer to 2015 or so.

The Roots really don't have any Top 40 hits.

The Seed (2.0)


As for the rebellious part so you don;t thnk having girls showing alot of skin in today;s rap video's is making a statement of rebillion? I just think it scares the heck of parents the same way rock music video's did in the 80's and 90's like I said before. A Rapper like Eminem will drive parents insane just because of what he raps about.

its not rebellious because its what we expect.  It would be rebellious if 50 Cent started singing a song about picking flowers and helping the elderly.  "Stan" was a shocking song for Eminem because it wasnt about his normal 'gay bashing and Slim SHady jokery' that many think his songs are about. 

Having slutty girls in music videos isnt rebellious...theyre probably dressed better than they are if you turned on random channel X.


Rock music I don;t see anybody doing anthing rebellious for the genre to be in the spotlight again.


The last rebellion period that rock music had was the grunge era. I like both rap and rock but the rock music after 1996 the genre itsellf its popularity has dropped because of lack of rebellion I think anyway.

much of rock has lost its rebellion...at least mainstream rock has.  Listen to the indie scene.

<Start Wishful Thinking>

IMO, I am hoping rap will slowly fade away over the next five years and the now underground indie scene comes forward into the mainstream and begin to dominate the charts say 5-6 years from now. Hey it's starting to happen now with the like of The Shins, Modest Mouse etc having at least 1 or 2 top 40 singles.  8)

<End Wishful Thinking>


Here here! Also, The Decemberists are picking up a lot of fans and bringing them into the "scene" as well. The way its going, IMO, its very possible within the next 2 years or so we are going to see an explosion in popularity for all of these great indie bands. As for sh!t bands like Green Day, Slipknot, Nickelback etc... Well i guess they will be off somewhere crying in their beer!  ;D

I think when it happens it will be similar to the explosion of great and rebellious music in the late 60's. People had been listening to pop BS for years, but it was like all of a sudden people were like "hey this other stuff is crap! music can actually be deep and mean something" and the rest is history.

Here here! Also, The Decemberists are picking up a lot of fans and bringing them into the "scene" as well. The way its going, IMO, its very possible within the next 2 years or so we are going to see an explosion in popularity for all of these great indie bands. As for sh!t bands like Green Day, Slipknot, Nickelback etc... Well i guess they will be off somewhere crying in their beer!  ;D


Well, there is ONE mainstream act I can think of that I like: The White Stripes. Other than that..

Here here! Also, The Decemberists are picking up a lot of fans and bringing them into the "scene" as well. The way its going, IMO, its very possible within the next 2 years or so we are going to see an explosion in popularity for all of these great indie bands. As for sh!t bands like Green Day, Slipknot, Nickelback etc... Well i guess they will be off somewhere crying in their beer!  ;D


The Decemberists make nice music and all...but dont you find them a tad bit boring? 

The Decemberists make nice music and all...but dont you find them a tad bit boring? 

There dozens of good alternative-pop bands out there now, but they tend to be a tad on the boring side!

I'm more of a twelve-note classical fan with very avant-garde leanings.

The Decemberists make nice music and all...but dont you find them a tad bit boring? 


No. They left that to Death Cab for Cutie.  ;D

"Zepplin didn't write tunes that everyone liked, they left that to the BGs"-Wayne Campbell, WAYNE'S WORLD

Seriously, DCC are pretty damn boring. I bought their new CD, "Plans". And I must say there isn't anything remotely catchy or even memorable on the entire album. Its well composed music from a technical standpoint..but I just find them to be kind of bleh.

Rap feels like it needs attention whether you want to hear it or not. I can't drive around my town without hearing the constant "Boom-Boom" of CRAP reverberating from some guys big truck with tiny little wheels ;D By contrast, Rock "Music" while annoying to it's detractors, never bothered me or was played as loud and insulting as Rap....which is NOT and never will be the true definition of Music. Most, not all, but MOST of it is some guy spewing out hatred towards whatever OR how he laid his latest beeeatch. ::)


I know. Such songs like that annoy the hell out of me, yet rock music has never bothered me to this degree, even if I don't like some of it. Why do Hip Hop artists that rap about sex, drugs, and how hard they are and cool they are sell so many records?  I just don't understand people. Hell, I'm only 20 and sometimes I don't understand the youth of today!!


^real rock acknowledges it's black roots. However, a lot of today's pseudo-rock really isn't rock. It's just another form of pop.


I definitly agree.


<Start Wishful Thinking>

IMO, I am hoping rap will slowly fade away over the next five years and the now underground indie scene comes forward into the mainstream and begin to dominate the charts say 5-6 years from now. Hey it's starting to happen now with the like of The Shins, Modest Mouse etc having at least 1 or 2 top 40 singles.  8)

<End Wishful Thinking>


I hope so too! Thing is when an Indie band gets a lot of publicity and credit, they end up getting slagged off and being brnaded as 'pop'. Take The Kaiser Chiefs, The Killers and Franz Ferdinand for example. I love Indie music so much, I couldn't bear it if all I ever heard was the rubbish rap and hip-hop that dominates everything at the moment.

I hope so too! Thing is when an Indie band gets a lot of publicity and credit, they end up getting slagged off and being brnaded as 'pop'. Take The Kaiser Chiefs, The Killers and Franz Ferdinand for example. I love Indie music so much, I couldn't bear it if all I ever heard was the rubbish rap and hip-hop that dominates everything at the moment.


I know EXACTLY what you are saying.  ::)

Getting hit with the 'pop' label happened to The Hives when they went mainstream. All of these idiots will eat up crap like Slipknot but shun good music like the Shins. What?? A good melody, good vocals, and intelligent songwriting?? Oh noes, the devil! Gee, I guess it isn't "hard" enough for them. What a crock. Any real rock n roll fan rues the day "metal" came into being.

I know EXACTLY what you are saying.  ::)

Getting hit with the 'pop' label happened to The Hives when they went mainstream. All of these idiots will eat up crap like Slipknot but shun good music like the Shins. What?? A good melody, good vocals, and intelligent songwriting?? Oh noes, the devil! Gee, I guess it isn't "hard" enough for them. What a crock. Any real rock n roll fan rues the day "metal" came into being.
Indeed.

You know what else I hate? Modern rock radio stations. Can they get any more macho-macho, idiotic, morons with IQ's below 20? And the listeners aren't usually much better. I suppose you could say that about most radio stations these days.  :P

I know. Such songs like that annoy the hell out of me, yet rock music has never bothered me to this degree, even if I don't like some of it. Why do Hip Hop artists that rap about sex, drugs, and how hard they are and cool they are sell so many records?  I just don't understand people. Hell, I'm only 20 and sometimes I don't understand the youth of today!!


You mean thier are actually other young people besides my own kids who see through all the BS? Cool ;)

You know what else I hate? Modern rock radio stations. Can they get any more macho-macho, idiotic, morons with IQ's below 20? And the listeners aren't usually much better. I suppose you could say that about most radio stations these days.  :P
That's just one reson why I'm not too sad that I didn't become a DJ....ah to be in the 70's again :-\\

I don't think Rap in itself is music at all, it's spoken word or maybe poetry, whatever, but not music. However, there is often music in the background, but that's not rap, rap is just rap ( or as R&R Fan would say rap is crap ;D) anyway, I find some of it relaxing, as I like spoken word.

Do the right thing:

You mean thier are actually other young people besides my own kids who see through all the BS? Cool ;)


We do exist! We may have complete idots in our generation but there are us few who find it much more productive to berate such rubbish than listen to it!

I know EXACTLY what you are saying.  ::)

Getting hit with the 'pop' label happened to The Hives when they went mainstream. All of these idiots will eat up crap like Slipknot but shun good music like the Shins. What?? A good melody, good vocals, and intelligent songwriting?? Oh noes, the devil! Gee, I guess it isn't "hard" enough for them. What a crock. Any real rock n roll fan rues the day "metal" came into being.


Yep. It's so stupid - I don't understand why people love to listen to lyrics like this:

Isn't it ironic how erotic it is to watch em in thongs
Had me thinking 'bout that ass after I'm gone
I touch the right spot at the right time
Lights on or lights off, she like it from behind
So seductive, you should see the way she wind
Her hips in slow-mo on the floor when we grind
As Long as she ain't stoppin, homie I aint stoppin
Drippin wet with sweat man its on and popping

or:

It's the nick nack patty wack, I still got the biggest sack
So put your gun away, run away, cuz i'm back (why?)
Hit em up, get em up, spit em up, now
Tell me what's goin on
It make me wanna holler, cuz my dollars come in ozones
Lone for the break-up, so take off your clothes
and quit tryin to spit at my m*therf*ckin ho's

When you could listen to lyrics like:

It’s a better way to feel
When you’re not real, you’re post modern
It’s not that one dimensional, it’s not the only thought
I stopped and waited for progress
I stopped and waited for progress
I stopped and waited
But I’m not willing to accept it all
This wooden idea is your method of repetition
This wooden idea is how you sell reduction

or:

I wear a smile, I wear a laugh
On in the back stage changing heads
I am a weekday on weekends, I hate my best friends

Spoken, choked up on my notes
This heart drones as I try and act adult
but like a walkmen falls to pieces, all parts no heart

Or even some older songs such as:

What you see is what you get
You've made your bed; you better lie in it
You choose your leaders and place your trust
As their lies wash you down and their promises rust
You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns
And the public wants what the public gets
But I don't get what this society wants

Or:

London calling, now don't look at us
All that phoney Beatlemania has bitten the dust
London calling, see we ain't got no swing
'Cept for the ring of that truncheon thing
The ice age is coming, the sun is zooming in
Engines stop running and the wheat is growing thin
A nuclear error, but I have no fear
London is drowning-and I live by the river

Now, I'll stop quoting, as you can probably get my point :)

I don't listen to most of today's rap (except a few from Black Eyed Peas and Outkast).

I don't listen to the radio that much execpt for my local alternative station, though I only like a few current bands like Franz Fernidand.

We do exist! We may have complete idots in our generation but there are us few who find it much more productive to berate such rubbish than listen to it!
;D Problem is, I'm sometimes FORCED to listen to it beacuse as I have my car windows all the way up and my radio turned up, nothing seems to block that crap from shaking my car and just for a moment making me think there's an approching thunderstorm ::)

I know. Such songs like that annoy the hell out of me, yet rock music has never bothered me to this degree, even if I don't like some of it. Why do Hip Hop artists that rap about sex, drugs, and how hard they are and cool they are sell so many records?  I just don't understand people. Hell, I'm only 20 and sometimes I don't understand the youth of today!!


So was every rock 'n' roll song sex, drugs, and ain't I cool!  I don't recall The Beatles and the Rolling Stones singing about how many records the sold.  Or did I?

rap is the modern Punk


you're all clueless. if you were aware of anything happening in rock music right now then you would know that there are more genres and subcultures than ever before. Just because it's not mainstream doesn't mean anything at all. >:(

well if you mean most of the rock now days then yes... because all it is is different forms of pop.

So was every rock 'n' roll song sex, drugs, and ain't I cool!  I don't recall The Beatles and the Rolling Stones singing about how many records the sold.  Or did I?


But the way rap artists do it is completly different. Rock and roll would get the point accross without swearing (to some extent) and slagging off women. Yes of course all those things I said were themes of previous songs, but usually done in a more profound way. Using methaphors, idioms, symbolism etc... Not just standing up on stage going 'Yo yo yo, i got myself a ho', i got myself some drugs and booze and and I'm gonna get wasted and stoneDs, and then get some sex for about 10 different women'. That's the kind of stuff I HATE. I don't mind some hip hop that truely has good lyrics.

In the 70's, 80's, and 90's rock music was king. In the late 90's/early 00's something happened. Does anybody think here that rap music is what rock music used to be in terms rebbelion? I mean I think when parents see kids watching all those rap music video's with the girls showing alot of skin and the parents I think are scared of that. Rock music is basically on the back burner. I mean a group like Nickleback I really don't define as rock. In the 90's parents were scared of the Nine Inch Nails music video for "Closer" and Nirvana's video for Smells Like Teen Spirit" I also think in the 80's parents didn't like their kids watching a music video like Van Halens "Hot For Teacher". Now you have girls in rapper 50 Cent's rap music video's. What is everybody's opinion on this?


Rap is sort of like Rock once was in the sense that for some people, it's an easy cultural whipping boy representing 'what's wrong with todays society'.  But Rap has gotten a bad name in the last decade or so because people have more or less completely associated it with the decadent "beeotches and Benjamins" element that for some reason gets disproportionate airplay and attention.  But this is really a fringe element that has become its own genre.  Serious rap critics and fans don't pay that much attention to it.  It's sort of like a food critic spending time in McDonalds or a fan of comic films watching Adam Sandler movies.  Well, they make a lot of money and they get a lot of press, so they must represent the artform, right!  Um, no.

Yes Yes Yes.  Both are about sex, drugs, and mayhem.  Party music.  Rap IS rock and roll, just in a different form.
As for old school rock trying to "solve problems", well some of it yes, but remember there's tons of positive rap too, even if most of it is underground.

Beginning in about 1992, rap become more controversial, but it wasn't really until the late '90s or early '00s that it was really more popular.