I thought I would make a post in here, warning people in here about buying Dell computers (or any other low-end system).

I work in the computer firld myself, and you would not believe the number of Dell computers we see.  Typically they are the "$300 specials" that people bought, thinking they got a great deal.  They bring them in thinking they got antivirus software, not realizing that it only came with 90 days of use.  Since most of them are so infected we can only reload them, this is where the fun begins.

Most of these ship with a bunch of software pre-loaded.  But the only disk they ship is the OS disk.  So if they had Corel Office when it came from the factory, we are unable to reload it.  All we can do is offer to sell them a copy, or put on a freeware solution like Star Office.  And the hardware used in these things is substandard at best.

The new computers we build use a minimum of 3 cooling fans, not counting any fans on the CPU or power supply.  Your normal Dell only ha 1 cooling fan, and it is ducted to the CPU heatsink.  In order to save that $2 for a fan, they simply do not put it on.  And if you don't like the graphics onboard, tough luck.  You can see on the motherboard where the AGP slot would go, if they had bothered to solder it in place.

Add to that problem, both Intel and AMD recommend power supplies of at least 300 watts.  What does Dell give you?  A supply rated at 200-250 watts.  This considerably shortens the lifespan, since it is being used harder then the manufacturer rates it for.  We have seen these supplies burn out in as little as 4 months.

I am sure you have all seen these great commercials, with the 24/7 tech support.  The thing they are not telling you is that this tech support is not in the US, it is in India.  And since these are not directly Dell employees but contractors, they get paid "per call".  Being shifted from one tech to another is not unusual.  I myself have had to be on hold for 45 minutes, just to order a replacement power supply from them.  And remember, tech support is not warranty.  While "All" Dell computers have 1 year tech support, they normally only have a 90 day warranty.  So after 4 months you can call them up, but they won't do anything about the problem.

The India tech support is only for the home users.  All of Dell Corporate tech support is still done out of Texas.  I guess you can tell what type of customer is most important to them.

Now before anybody accuses me of being anti-Dell, that is not true.  All major manufacturers of home computers are just as bad.  Dell, Gateway, E-Machine, HP, Compaq, Apple, Micron, they are all the same.  Because price has become the #1 factor, they now cut corners wherever possible in order to make cheap cheap CHEAP machines.  You do not get things like cooling fans, decent power supplies, upgradeable video, or even floppy drives.  We have started to call these things "Disposible Computers", because the average lifespan seems to be around 18 months.

And while these companies flood the market with $300 computers for the homeowner, the corporate units are much different.  These are still quality units, with more cooling fans, high quality power supplies with 50-200 watts excess power, graphics slits, and other features.  But they still start at the $1,200 range.  The baseline for these units is that they are designed to last trouble free throughout a standard 3-5 year corporate lease.  A homeowner unit is designed to outlive a 90 day to 2 year warranty.

In short, do not let the price be the determining factor when you buy a computer (or anything else).  We see people all the time that get a Dell (or HP, or Compaq, or anything else), then have problems within a few months.  If you buy a Yugo, do not expect to get Cadillac quality or service.

Next time any of you need a computer, I suggest finding a good quality local shop.  They are still willing to give "Personal Service".  A good shop will talk you through multiple options, and help you find the computer that suits you best.  I typically spend 30-90 minutes with a customer helping them decide what parts and options they want.  This is not only better for you, but it keeps the money you spend in your local community, instead of going to some large corporation that does not really see you as anything other then "another customer".

And if you want to know how bad Dell customer service really is, go to Google and enter "Dell Hell".

Good advice Mushroom.

I'm anti Dell. Heck i'm against buying a computer from any store chain as well. I would never buy HP, or Compaq, simply because I can buy a clone that has all of the things that those computers have for less. 

Good advice Mushroom.

I'm anti Dell. Heck i'm against buying a computer from any store chain as well. I would never buy HP, or Compaq, simply because I can buy a clone that has all of the things that those computers have for less. 


That is so true.  We build computers all the time that blow away anything offered by the "Major manufacturers".  One of the biggest reasons is that they are working with 1-2 year old technology.

Last year, we switched over from the old IDE hard drives to the new SATA hard drives.  But none of those offered by Dell can use SATA until you get to the $1,000 price range.  Every computer we build has an AGP graphics port, even if it has on-board video.  Nothing Dell offers under $1,000 has AGP.  We are starting to build computers with PCIe (PCI Express) video, nothing by Dell has that until you get to the $1,400 range.  And we do all of this at under $900.  Plus by the end of the year, most of our new computers will be either 64 bit or 64 bit capable.  If you want that from Dell, you better look at $2,500+!!!

I have built my own computers since 1991.  I refuse to own anything made by a "Name Brand" unless it is a laptop or a "Corporate model".  the stuff they sell to home users is a shame, and should be illegal.  And the worst problem is that people see those $299 ads on TV, then complain that we are to expensive.  I will often take them into the back room, and show them the pile of dead $299 computers we have.

I tell them to just think of it like this.  When they buy a house, car, TV, or anything else, they rarely let the cost be the most important factor.  So why do so many people use that criteria for computers?  Some people complain about "corporate power", yet they give them money by buying their inferior products, simply because it has "name recognition".

And those that buy name brands for their warranty, here is a story that should scare you straight:

http://www.mydellexperience.com/

Hey...I have what I can afford ON A LIMITED INCOME...I had to save for YEARS to get my Presario...and it's not given me a problem since the day I bought it....NO way with expenses related to my own disability/living expenses would I be able to afford anything more expensive...please when you read this TRY and understand my situation...I take excellent care of my computer...that seems to help a lot. Many people I know who have computers DO NOT. They smoke ciggies around them...and let the ashes get into the mouse,and they don't clean the mouse,and wonder why they have trouble with it...same for eating or drinking around their computer...they don't realize that it's sensitive to spills and all that...

My Presario was almost $700 without the monitor,just the cpu,mouse and keyboard..I added the monitor,speakers,and printer.

And I am VERY satisfied with what I have...

Dell latched spyware onto my computer from day one.. It came with BullzEyeNetwork built in.. "A Guy's Guide To The Internet"

BullzEye=Bad Porn and Sports News

I got a Dell recently, I have no problems yet.

My sister bought a Dell. She has since gotten a used PC (hybrid) PC that works better.

Dell latched spyware onto my computer from day one.. It came with BullzEyeNetwork built in.. "A Guy's Guide To The Internet"

BullzEye=Bad Porn and Sports News
I think with any computer hooked up to the 'Net..it really pays to have not just one but a couple of anti-spyware programs...I have Ad-Aware SE that I got from PC World's(computer magazine)website....as well as McAfee VirusScan..which works out great for me because it not only rids me of viruses but ALL spyware too...

Windows XP Service Pack 2 adds a firewall which I have installed...

I don't know what my computer is. It's a built from scratch computer that will get upgraded as time progresses. And it cost me only $500.  :D It goes exceptionally well, and has never given problems yet.

I think with any computer hooked up to the 'Net..it really pays to have not just one but a couple of anti-spyware programs...I have Ad-Aware SE that I got from PC World's(computer magazine)website....as well as McAfee VirusScan..which works out great for me because it not only rids me of viruses but ALL spyware too...

Windows XP Service Pack 2 adds a firewall which I have installed...


We had a ton of stuff, too.. but Dell programmed it to ignore BullzEye.. we got it eventually, though.. painstakingly, might I add.

I don't know what my computer is. It's a built from scratch computer that will get upgraded as time progresses. And it cost me only $500. :D It goes exceptionally well, and has never given problems yet.
I know of no one around here that does 'built from scratch' computers inexpensive enough for someone on SSDI to afford....My Compaq Presario works just fine for me...And this is someone who used to own a cantankerous,underpowered,tiny hard disk'ed,secondhand  PACKARD BELL!!

I know of no one around here that does 'built from scratch' computers inexpensive enough for someone on SSDI to afford....My Compaq Presario works just fine for me...And this is someone who used to own a cantankerous,underpowered,tiny hard disk'ed PACKARD BELL!!
I have connections in the computer industry. So it's very easy for me to get stuff cheap.  :D

I have a Dell.  Got it from my mom when she upgraded.  It works fine for my purposes, which is mainly iternet surfing and the occasional work at home evenings. 

I wouldn't rely on anyone to cover my virus scan for me.  I have had the same account with McAfee for 3 years and just download it onto new computers.  I got a virus (black hole) four years ago and had to toss the whole thing because it wasn't worth what it would have cost to fix.  Since then I have had continual protection.

Dell latched spyware onto my computer from day one.. It came with BullzEyeNetwork built in.


Heck, until last year, removing spyware from a Dell would actually void the warranty!  It was only when they got flooded with bad press that they changed this policy.  During that time, if you called Tech Support, they would try and talk you out of useing AdAware or SpyBot.


I got a Dell recently, I have no problems yet.


Don't misunderstand my post.  I am not saying that they are junk, I am just saying that they are cheap.  And more then anything else, do not spend the extra money for the "extended tech support".


I don't know what my computer is. It's a built from scratch computer that will get upgraded as time progresses. And it cost me only $500.  :D It goes exceptionally well, and has never given problems yet.


That is exactly what I do almost every day.  I take a customer's computer, and salvage as much out of it as I can.  Then I build a new one for them, keeping as much as I can.  To give an idea, if your hard drive and CD drives are still working, I can put them with a new case, motherboard, and CPU (2.6 GHz) for around $400.

I tell people to use this simple formula:  Assume your computer is worth at least $1,000.  Treat it like an investment, and put back 10-20% of that every year for upgrades, new antivirus software, etc.  $100-200 a year will keep almost any computer current for at least 5-10 years.


I know of no one around here that does 'built from scratch' computers inexpensive enough for someone on SSDI to afford....My Compaq Presario works just fine for me...And this is someone who used to own a cantankerous,underpowered,tiny hard disk'ed,secondhand  PACKARD BELL!!


Well, try doing what I suggest people do, upgrade it a piece at a time.  You can normally get a decent case with power supply for $50-75.  That will help it last a lot longer then it would in the stock case.  Then in a year or so, upgrade the motherboard & CPU.  From then on out, you only need to upgrade the parts that need to be replaced, not the entire unit.

As far as Packard Bell, it depends on which company made it.  The original "Packard Bell" died in 1996.  That is when it became known that they were useing refurbished parts in new computers.  And just like Dell now, it had horrible problems with it's technical support.  The "Packard Bell" that exists now is a totally different company.  In 1995 they bought the computer department from Zenith, then in 1996 it merged with NEC.  The name lives on, being major sellers in Europe and Australia.  The same computers are sold in the US as "NEC", due to the bad name recognition with "Packard Hell".

Heck, until last year, removing spyware from a Dell would actually void the warranty!  It was only when they got flooded with bad press that they changed this policy.  During that time, if you called Tech Support, they would try and talk you out of useing AdAware or SpyBot.


Dell STILL discouraged any scans... and that was about 6 months ago.. they said it might affect the system.. yeah, it made it WORK. :o  ;D

Dell is driving away customers because of poor
customer support.  The computer are fine and the
prices are competitive but if they don't stop
outsourcing soon, they may lose the home user for
good.

I agree with most of the comments. I have bought a Dell Inspiron 5100 laptop over a year ago and for the times I've wanted to replace a specific part I would always have to wait an hour to get any service. Right now it works fine give or take a few times the laptop automatically shuts down due to temperature regulation (bad cooling fan?) and I paid more than two grand for this baby!

Dell is driving away customers because of poor
customer support.  The computer are fine and the
prices are competitive but if they don't stop
outsourcing soon, they may lose the home user for
good.



I remember spending a long time yelling into my phone and being yelled at in an accent I didn't understand.. I had an Indian man with bad hearing for my custom support.  ;D

  I had 1999 build Dell Dimension 4100 given to me due to a bad HDD. It seems someone decided to attempt to change the partition table. For about a $45 investment in a new 40Gb HDD, I got me a neato computer. It must have been a good one, has all the software & driver disks.

  I agree with mushroom. Most large companies are churning out ever cheaper products because they can sell them. It's all in the name of big profit margins, high stock divedends, and big bonuses for the CEO's. History proves these practices only work for a short-term gain.

  Pesonally, I buy and refurbish used systems for my own use. I have yet to spend more than $150 for any computer.

Heck, until last year, removing spyware from a Dell would actually void the warranty! It was only when they got flooded with bad press that they changed this policy. During that time, if you called Tech Support, they would try and talk you out of useing AdAware or SpyBot.

Don't misunderstand my post. I am not saying that they are junk, I am just saying that they are cheap. And more then anything else, do not spend the extra money for the "extended tech support".

That is exactly what I do almost every day. I take a customer's computer, and salvage as much out of it as I can. Then I build a new one for them, keeping as much as I can. To give an idea, if your hard drive and CD drives are still working, I can put them with a new case, motherboard, and CPU (2.6 GHz) for around $400.

I tell people to use this simple formula: Assume your computer is worth at least $1,000. Treat it like an investment, and put back 10-20% of that every year for upgrades, new antivirus software, etc. $100-200 a year will keep almost any computer current for at least 5-10 years.

Well, try doing what I suggest people do, upgrade it a piece at a time. You can normally get a decent case with power supply for $50-75. That will help it last a lot longer then it would in the stock case. Then in a year or so, upgrade the motherboard & CPU. From then on out, you only need to upgrade the parts that need to be replaced, not the entire unit.

As far as Packard Bell, it depends on which company made it. The original "Packard Bell" died in 1996. That is when it became known that they were useing refurbished parts in new computers. And just like Dell now, it had horrible problems with it's technical support. The "Packard Bell" that exists now is a totally different company. In 1995 they bought the computer department from Zenith, then in 1996 it merged with NEC. The name lives on, being major sellers in Europe and Australia. The same computers are sold in the US as "NEC", due to the bad name recognition with "Packard Hell".
I'd have to wonder why Dell discouraged any use of spyware-removal software..probably so DELL could spy on you and see what other products they could sell to some uneducated sucker...

I'd have to wonder why Dell discouraged any use of spyware-removal software..probably so DELL could spy on you and see what other products they could sell to some uneducated sucker...


Actually, it is to make more money.

When you buy a computer "pre-loaded" from the major manufacturers (Dell, Compaq, HP, Gateway, E-Machine, etc) it comes with spyware pre-loaded.  This is because they make more money if you register and of the "demo" versions of the programs on the system.

This is a practice that E-Machine started.  If you remember the early ones, they were pretty generic clone boxes, with a ton of product stickers on the outside, and a ton of "demonstration" products pre-installed.  If the user registered or upgraded any of the software pre-installed, E-Machine got a little more money.  It was not enough, but enough people did it that it made them more money.

If you re-load an HP or Compaq with a factory disk then do a scan, you will find from 10-40 "spyware" programs on it.  Most of them are fairly harmless, tracking cookies and pop-up programs.  But this means more money in their pocket.

This is why Dell told people to not remove them.  Whenever somebody removed the pre-installed spyware, it removed a potential revenue source.

As a warning:  If you have any low-wnd computer, I seriously recommend replaceing your power supply, even if it works.  In the last week, I have had 7 computers come in the shop for this very reason (3 Dell, 2 HP, 1 Compaq, 1 Gateway).  In 4 of the 7 cases, the power supply damaged the motherboard.  This is because more and more power supplies are not "failing", but are continuing to work, but sending an "AC Overvolt" to the motherboard.  This means instead of needing a $35-40 power supply, it also needs a new motherboard and processor (sometimes it is strong enough to destroy every component in the system).

And I am not saying that these are junk, just remember that when you buy something with low cost as the priority, low quality is frequently the consequence.  Dell has been coasting for years on the reputation of their Corporate units.  More and more we are now seeing the new reputation of their home units starting to affect their Corporate policies.

I have never owned a manufacturer PC, I have always built my own, right from the late 80s.  It's better because you can get exactly what you want rather than a bought pc where the hard disk size is low or it has low memory. They may be cheap one bought from the shop but I think that most of them, especially nowadays could barely run XP as most only have had 256M, that I have seen anyway.  If you are just using a pc for surfing then you don't need much as long as it can get you on the internet, if you need it for games then you are going to need lots of memory and a decent graphics card (though really if you want a pc for games, I would recommend the cheaper option of an Xbox or PS2) or if you need it for business or programming or whatever, then you need to make sure that you have the right parts, which most manufacturers won't give without paying through the nose for it!

So if you know enough build it yourself, it is the best option

  A person can build, or have someone build a very capable computer for around $500-$800. The cost of memory is relatively low now. 64-bit mother boards are readily available. Just do your homework and shop around.

  If your a real geek, get a used Xbox and hack it. It voids the warranty but it's a very economical way to get a decent system. 

(though really if you want a pc for games, I would recommend the cheaper option of an Xbox or PS2)

So if you know enough build it yourself, it is the best option


Actually, most gamers choose to play games on a computer over a console, if it is available.  This is because the games are often better.

A great example of this is Halo, and the Grand Theft Auto games.  All of these started on console games, but later were "ported" to the PC.  When this was done, the programmers were able to take advantage of higher-end technology, and improve the games.  If you look at Halo on an X-Box, then again on a PC with a 256 meg video card, you will see a huge difference.  This is even more noticeable on Grand Theft Auto - Vice City.  WIth the larger amount of resources available on a PC, the graphics are much clearere and sharper, with more detail on a PC then on a Play Station.

Plus playing them on a computer allows for patches and upgrades, something not possible on a console.  ANd the "Amature Modding" community makes a large number of these, doing everything from changing the body of "Sarge" on Halo, to things as extensive as totally remaking the graphics to a more "Lifelike" appearance, like in the "Real GTA" series of mods.  This series of mods is one of the most extensive, changing the cars to replicas of real cars, changes the buildings and towns from "Vice City" to Miami, "Liberty City" to New York City (complete with Statue of Liberty), to the one under development, changes "San Andreas" to real replicas of Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and San Francisco.  This simply is not possible with console games.

AND don't forget, if you buy a new computer...if you get delled you also may get AOL'd :P