I was wondering in my eager, yet confused mind what people think about the marriage and divorce issue of today.  I don't want to get into specifics and statistics over this, just casual responses.  I, personally, don't believe in getting married because I've seen many friends, since high school (9 years ago), get married for the wrong reasons and get divorced just as quick.  Mainly marrying after an "oops", marry within a year of meeting the other, marrying for financial support, or parents forcing marriage.  Five of my friends fell into the "oops" trap and they are still fighting over child support and custody rights.  These are just a few of the wrong reasons.  I know I mentioned something like this before in a previous post, but I want to elaborate abit on this.  Of course most of us were raised with two parents, and others with divorced parents.  I have had girlfriends and friends alike that came from dysfunctional families or single parents and it makes me feel really bad for them when I tell them that my parents have been together since I was born 27 years ago.  I feel like I was spoiled my whole childhood while these people that came in and out of my life were abused, neglected, and left to find the world for themselves.  Someone counter-quoted a statement I made about how marriage and family valuesare not like they used to be, and that IS true, but...situations such as affairs, abuse, lies, single parenthood, and other elements weren't as glamourized as they are today.  Music, TV, and media tell us that a swinging couple is a hip couple, and that cheating on your husbands and wives as well as boyfriends and girlfriends is cool. I think in another 10 years, pre-nuptuals are going to be the biggest thing to do when wedding.  I know if I ever get married, that's what I'm down for.  As our generations get older, maybe there will be a change in they way we view marriage.  Most people, including a few of my single friends and myself (if I ever decide to bother), are not planning on getting married until between 31 and 35.  I think it's a smarter approach until all the immaturity and ignorance is behind us.  What do you think?  Tell me.   8)

Marriage is punishment for shoplifting in some countries.

Marriage is punishment for shoplifting in some countries.


Which countries are they, so I can avoid them when I go to Europe next year...... ;D ;D

That's awesome..

What have we here? Trying to swipe some gum, eh? That's it! You, woman! Get over here! Now, we're going to teach you lesson about stealing...  ;D

'Twas a joke. It was from the first "Wayne's World" movie.

Really? Meh, didn't see it. I missed a lot of movies, I have...

I don't know where you stand on this issue......

but be careful what you say on the whole "oops" thing....


cause most of my family and most of my friends are "oops"

Its generally not good to marry because of an "oops". You should only marry someone if you really, truely, deeply love them, and you trust them and enjoy their partnership in life..

I don't know where you stand on this issue......

but be careful what you say on the whole "oops" thing....


cause most of my family and most of my friends are "oops"


Ditto. :)

I was an "oops", but my parents didn't get married because of me. They were already planning to, but I was just a bonus. ;D They've been together for 25 years and I honestly think they couldn't survive without each other, even when they are at each other's throats about something stupid.

My son was also an "oops", but my husband and I had been engaged since December of 2003 after knowing each other for a little more than a year (we even met on the internet :o). We didn't get married until December of 2004 when I was about to pop. :D

There are three things that people should concider when they get married-1) Is it to the right person? 2) Is it for the right reasons? 3) Is it the right time?  Many people jump into marriage for the sake of getting married-Wrong reason. I should know because I did that the first time around. I knew my first husband 4 months before we got married-which means that I also got married to the wrong person and because we both TOO young, the wrong time. Personally, I don't think an "oops" is a reason to get married. I have know a few people (like Jessica and my sister for that matter) who planned on getting married BEFORE the "oops" happened. I admit that sometimes when people do get married when they were not engaged before,  it does work out but many times it doesn't. I think many people take marriage for granted. You hear about people whose marriage only last a few days and you wonder why did they even bother? I think many people want the romance/fantasy of "living happily ever after" only to discover that it is not like that. Marriage is work. It has to be a partnership-yes, love SHOULD be in that equation but also respect, concideration and communication. Another thing I think some people are under the illusion or disillusion is that they are going to "change" their partners. The only person who can change someone is the person themself. You have to see the person you are willing to marry as he/she really is and be willing to accept them for who they really are. And if you can do that, then it can work. Marriage can be a wonderful thing if you marry the right person, for the right reasons, at the right time. I did learn from my first mistake and this time I did it right and my marriage is truly blissful and yes, we are living happily ever after.



Cat

There are three things that people should concider when they get married-1) Is it to the right person? 2) Is it for the right reasons? 3) Is it the right time?  Many people jump into marriage for the sake of getting married-Wrong reason. I should know because I did that the first time around. I knew my first husband 4 months before we got married-which means that I also got married to the wrong person and because we both TOO young, the wrong time. Personally, I don't think an "oops" is a reason to get married. I have know a few people (like Jessica and my sister for that matter) who planned on getting married BEFORE the "oops" happened. I admit that sometimes when people do get married when they were not engaged before,  it does work out but many times it doesn't. I think many people take marriage for granted. You hear about people whose marriage only last a few days and you wonder why did they even bother? I think many people want the romance/fantasy of "living happily ever after" only to discover that it is not like that. Marriage is work. It has to be a partnership-yes, love SHOULD be in that equation but also respect, concideration and communication. Another thing I think some people are under the illusion or disillusion is that they are going to "change" their partners. The only person who can change someone is the person themself. You have to see the person you are willing to marry as he/she really is and be willing to accept them for who they really are. And if you can do that, then it can work. Marriage can be a wonderful thing if you marry the right person, for the right reasons, at the right time. I did learn from my first mistake and this time I did it right and my marriage is truly blissful and yes, we are living happily ever after.



Cat



Very well said, thank you 8)

There are three things that people should concider when they get married-1) Is it to the right person? 2) Is it for the right reasons? 3) Is it the right time? Many people jump into marriage for the sake of getting married-Wrong reason. I should know because I did that the first time around. I knew my first husband 4 months before we got married-which means that I also got married to the wrong person and because we both TOO young, the wrong time. Personally, I don't think an "oops" is a reason to get married. I have know a few people (like Jessica and my sister for that matter) who planned on getting married BEFORE the "oops" happened. I admit that sometimes when people do get married when they were not engaged before, it does work out but many times it doesn't. I think many people take marriage for granted. You hear about people whose marriage only last a few days and you wonder why did they even bother? I think many people want the romance/fantasy of "living happily ever after" only to discover that it is not like that. Marriage is work. It has to be a partnership-yes, love SHOULD be in that equation but also respect, concideration and communication. Another thing I think some people are under the illusion or disillusion is that they are going to "change" their partners. The only person who can change someone is the person themself. You have to see the person you are willing to marry as he/she really is and be willing to accept them for who they really are. And if you can do that, then it can work. Marriage can be a wonderful thing if you marry the right person, for the right reasons, at the right time. I did learn from my first mistake and this time I did it right and my marriage is truly blissful and yes, we are living happily ever after.



Cat



VERY well said, Cat. Those are definitely my feelings on marriage as well.

There is never going to be a true "one", a perfect person that you are completely and totally in sync with. And really, why would you want such a person? That would be kind of boring..don't you think? To be able to spend your life with someone, you have to be able to accept them for BETTER OR FOR WORSE(i.e. with all their qualities AND their faults, that is what that vow means). And they have to do the same. Marriage isn't the union of soul mates(I think that idea is fantasy), marriage is considered to be starting a family.

Not just because it is often an institution for producing and raising children, but because the relationship in which you will be with your partner will be an unconditional love much like family. You love your mother and father despite their faults, right? You don't reject them for mistakes, you are family and no matter what you try to help eachother and stick together. Well, hopefully you do. That is how its supposed to be with a spouse, IMO.

Now, I don't think that means you should accept an abusive relationship. If a person is abusive, it doesn't matter whether its a spouse or a relative, you should get away from that situation. Protect yourself.

That is my $1.50 ;D

VERY well said, Cat. Those are definitely my feelings on marriage as well.

There is never going to be a true "one", a perfect person that you are completely and totally in sync with. And really, why would you want such a person? That would be kind of boring..don't you think? To be able to spend your life with someone, you have to be able to accept them for BETTER OR FOR WORSE(i.e. with all their qualities AND their faults, that is what that vow means). And they have to do the same. Marriage isn't the union of soul mates(I think that idea is fantasy), marriage is considered to be starting a family.

Not just because it is often an institution for producing and raising children, but because the relationship in which you will be with your partner will be an unconditional love much like family. You love your mother and father despite their faults, right? You don't reject them for mistakes, you are family and no matter what you try to help eachother and stick together. Well, hopefully you do. That is how its supposed to be with a spouse, IMO.

Now, I don't think that means you should accept an abusive relationship. If a person is abusive, it doesn't matter whether its a spouse or a relative, you should get away from that situation. Protect yourself.

That is my $1.50 ;D


I am not saying that people should stay married if it is not working out. Carlos once told me that his divorce from his first wife was the best thing that happened to their relationship in a long time. Some people just grow apart. However, I agree with you 100% about abusive relationships. In fact, my first marriage was verbally abusive (not physically but it was abusive nevertheless). It took me 6 years to walk away from that situation because I didn't want to admit that I made a mistake.

Of course no one is going to be perfect but I have to say that Carlos is perfect FOR me (not saying he is without faults  ;) ). We work well together and we respect each other very much (not to mention the fact that we are totally in love with each other  ;D)



Cat

I am not saying that people should stay married if it is not working out. Carlos once told me that his divorce from his first wife was the best thing that happened to their relationship in a long time. Some people just grow apart. However, I agree with you 100% about abusive relationships. In fact, my first marriage was verbally abusive (not physically but it was abusive nevertheless). It took me 6 years to walk away from that situation because I didn't want to admit that I made a mistake.

Of course no one is going to be perfect but I have to say that Carlos is perfect FOR me (not saying he is without faults ;) ). We work well together and we respect each other very much (not to mention the fact that we are totally in love with each other ;D)



Cat


Well, by abusive I meant any relationship that is not good for the partners involved.

Also, I didn't really mean that there isn't anyone out there who isn't perfect FOR you. I just meant there is no "perfect" person as in the way you may visualize them in your mind.

I am personally happily married and waited untill my late 20's to get married. FOR BETTER OR WORSE means alot to me personally, as times are not always going to go well. I knew my now wife for 4 years before we married. No, she isn't perfect, but neither am I. We have learned to communicate a lot better as of recently and it has strenghtened our relationship ( whereas before is strained and drained it ).

In our case is definately opposites attract, as we have different views on a lot of things but I personally would hate to be with someone who always agreed with me. Lines like: " Whatever you want to do " and " That's fine by me", etc. when heard over and over make a relationship BORING ( to me ). MANY a potential wife ( i.e. Women who would have entertained the thought of marriage with me ) have been completely ruined by too much of that passive attitude. If I wanted a companion who always obeyed me I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT A DOG.

Changes happen over relationships. Some are inevitable, some not. I do know of many couples who have only been married once and still are married after 50+ years. I cannot say with ANY certainty that our relationship will be like that.

It's not the marriage that I ever worry about....now having children is a different matter.

Note: If you see my sig at the bottom, none of this is sarcastic. Just my 2 cents.

Red Ant, your post is very mature. I view marriage in the same way but don't enter it lightly. I think some people get married too early in life, not realising the full impact of that decision until they realise they have to put up with that person until they get divorced.

I was engaged until recently but am not getting married anymore after my relationship broke down. Oddly enough, principles were behind the break-up of our relationship.

Awww. You and Lisa didn't make it? :(

Awww. You and Lisa didn't make it? :(


It was a crisis of conscience, Alex. We've had a few problems but the big thing is that she wanted marriage and I had to say that I didn't. As a result, she said there was no point in keeping the relationship going as it is so I've got until Thursday this week in the house. No worries though, I've got a flat (apartment) and am looking forward to moving in.

It just means that I will be a week or so without broadband.  :(

Ah, I understand. Well if you had the strength to tell her the truth about what you want, than I assume you are making it through this pretty well.

Don't worry, Bob. Like Elvis said "theres a thousand pretty women waitin' out there, and they're all livin' devil may care" and you are just the devil with love to spare, mate. ;)

I have been heartbroken the last month or so, because things with Mary were not happening like I wanted them to. But I found out last night, anytime you get a pretty woman in your arms, you do feel loads better. So what I am saying is, get back out there man. 8)

Ah, I understand. Well if you had the strength to tell her the truth about what you want, than I assume you are making it through this pretty well.


I'm not doing bad, mate. It's hurting more at the moment but I am sure it will pass.  :)

Don't worry, Bob. Like Elvis said "theres a thousand pretty women waitin' out there, and they're all livin' devil may care" and you are just the devil with love to spare, mate. ;)

Cheers for that, man.  ;)

I have seen proof of that statement.  ;D

For all of you who are in relationships, things get bad at times and when they do, you just have to remember to say three simple words: "You're right, Dear."  :D ;D





Cat

For all of you who are in relationships, things get bad at times and when they do, you just have to remember to say three simple words: "You're right, Dear."  :D ;D


Not enough, Cat.  ::)  ;D

Not enough, Cat.  ::)  ;D


Quite right. For men, the 10 key parts to keep a marriage going ( as they have worked for me and in NO particular order ) are:

1: Ask the question " How was your day? " ( there's usually a half hour conversation there--don't forget to LISTEN to her either )
2. Say " I'm sorry " ( a lot )
3. Say " You were right " ( she probably was )
4. Say " I love you " ( and mean it - saying it FIRST is good too )
5. Say " It's all my fault " ( even if it isn't )
6. Do not insult her parents ( even under your breath, she WILL hear you )
7. Remember your anniversary ( and her birthday, Valentine's Day, etc. )
8. Try to work on your nightlife and only with her, leading to:
9: Don't cheat ( ever )
10 and final : If you are a man anyways, you will forget a lot of this, so feel free to print out this list so your relationship/marriage lasts. I would suggest memorization of it though, as placing it anywhere will lead to her discovering it, then you will look like a dork.

Note: Some of this is meant to be funny, most is serious.
Also note: There are many more rules and guides to relationships. However, this is free. You want a book fork out the 15$ for it. Or 100$ an hour for therapy sessions.

PS: The only concrete rule in our marriage is that when we drive somewhere together, I drive as she is the only driver I have ever rode with that scares me more than I scare other people. ( sarcastic but true ).

Not all women are that tedious. ^

Not all women are that tedious. ^


Hopefully not, otherwise I'll wilfully adopt celibacy.  ;D

Quite right. For men, the 10 key parts to keep a marriage going ( as they have worked for me and in NO particular order ) are:

1: Ask the question " How was your day? " ( there's usually a half hour conversation there--don't forget to LISTEN to her either )
2. Say " I'm sorry " ( a lot )
3. Say " You were right " ( she probably was )
4. Say " I love you " ( and mean it - saying it FIRST is good too )
5. Say " It's all my fault " ( even if it isn't )
6. Do not insult her parents ( even under your breath, she WILL hear you )
7. Remember your anniversary ( and her birthday, Valentine's Day, etc. )
8. Try to work on your nightlife and only with her, leading to:
9: Don't cheat ( ever )
10 and final : If you are a man anyways, you will forget a lot of this, so feel free to print out this list so your relationship/marriage lasts. I would suggest memorization of it though, as placing it anywhere will lead to her discovering it, then you will look like a dork.

Note: Some of this is meant to be funny, most is serious.
Also note: There are many more rules and guides to relationships. However, this is free. You want a book fork out the 15$ for it. Or 100$ an hour for therapy sessions.

PS: The only concrete rule in our marriage is that when we drive somewhere together, I drive as she is the only driver I have ever rode with that scares me more than I scare other people. ( sarcastic but true ).


i'm guilty of violating rules 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8....and taking her for granted and using her only for sex....what's life without learning from your mistakes, eh? the ironic thing is, she was the love of my life and i'm living through the regrets and what if's.

i'm guilty of violating rules 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8....and taking her for granted and using her only for sex....what's life without learning from your mistakes, eh? the ironic thing is, she was the love of my life and i'm living through the regrets and what if's.


I've blown MANY relationships on almost every " rule " I listed above, and regretted them as well. As for my MARRIAGE, those " rules " come from experience ( and a few have been broken as well-I'm not perfect ).

As for the quotes mentioning being " tedious ", I KNEW I would NEVER GET MARRIED. Funny how I'm usually wrong about what is best for me. She is " my better half ". Note: I am NOT PW'd ( you know what that means ).

As far as using women for $ex, I cannot say I'm guilty of that." To me it's about HER pleasure, because if I wanted to please myself, I'd do it BY myself".

For the guys out there: That quote  ^ when I said it at a party some 7 or so years ago got me no less that 6 phone numbers and the endless attention of every woman within earshot for the remainder of the night. Sometimes things that slip out like that can get you more notice than being, rich, famous, or great looking ( I do not qualify for any of those, though I'm not a troglodyte ).

PS- I no longer consider roller coasters thrilling. When I need a good scare in my life I let her drive me somewhere.

As far as using women for $ex, I cannot say I'm guilty of that." To me it's about HER pleasure, because if I wanted to please myself, I'd do it BY myself"

total agreement. i love oral going down on a woman but still i'm guilty of being selfish. i can go into details but these boards are PG-13 rated,,,,, :P

total agreement. i love oral going down on a woman but still i'm guilty of being selfish. i can go into details but these boards are PG-13 rated,,,,, :P


Well, I am a gentleman. Ladies come first. ;)

Not all women are that tedious. ^


Very astute observation Alex ;) :)  Why do men always assume all women are hard work. ::)

our sex was excellent. our problem was, we've been friends for 15 years and that friendship was dying....we were incompatible as lovers and we were meant as friends. i love her, i will always love her...just not as lovers because we are too much alike...if that makes sense...?

I'm not doing bad, mate. It's hurting more at the moment but I am sure it will pass.  :)


I'm sure you'll have some bad days but in the long run you've done the right thing.  You've been very brave - I have known people that didn't want to get married but found themselves swept along by their partner and parents into very unhappy marriages.    :(

{{Big hugs}} Bob   :)  

Ok, women do not need to be that " tedious ". Here is a list my wife made up about 10 minutes ago ( in order as she spoke them ).

1: Friendship
2: Understanding/compassion
3: Love
4: Happiness
5: Loyalty ( i.e. No cheating )
6: Willing to do anything for each other
7: Respect

Note that her 7+1 values in a relationship had almost none in common with my personal values ( though I would say they are " traditional " American womens' values).

Note that she also said that if she were single and looking for a man here answer would be the same.

You do not see money, good looks, or $ex in this list anywhere ( except loyalty ).

Now, lets see the WOMEN comment on my WIFE's values.

Ok, women do not need to be that " tedious ". Here is a list my wife made up about 10 minutes ago ( in order as she spoke them ).

1: Friendship
2: Understanding/compassion
3: Love
4: Happiness
5: Loyalty ( i.e. No cheating )
6: Willing to do anything for each other
7: Respect

Note that her 7+1 values in a relationship had almost none in common with my personal values ( though I would say they are " traditional " American womens' values).

Note that she also said that if she were single and looking for a man here answer would be the same.

You do not see money, good looks, or $ex in this list anywhere ( except loyalty ).

Now, lets see the WOMEN comment on my WIFE's values.





Great list  :)  I am happy to say that my husband of almost 21 years gives me all that  :) 

Great list  :)   I am happy to say that my husband of almost 21 years gives me all that  :) 


Thank you. I do most of the time provide all 8 of these. HOWEVER, for the males my original list IS necessary when you ( the male ) screw up ( or when she is having a bad day ).

Now nobody has to spend the money to buy " Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus " as this has been discussed to both sexes satisfaction. :)

I'm sure you'll have some bad days but in the long run you've done the right thing.  You've been very brave - I have known people that didn't want to get married but found themselves swept along by their partner and parents into very unhappy marriages.    :(

{{Big hugs}} Bob   :)  


Ah, you are so right, Jaytee. Thank you for your hugs.  ;)

Weeelll....


I have spent several years living in Denmark/Scandinavia and there marriage is like this thing that doesnt really mean much. I dont mean to say that divorcing is high . What I mean to say is  a  lot of my friends over there their parents have been together 20 sumthin years and they never married at all,  In general the same rights are given to cohabitants as given to married people, including same sex partnerships etc So the marriage thing is i think viewed there, much like a piece of paper, and a headache to deal with if its not working out the way you hoped X-amount of years later. Not to put down marriage or anything, but maybe they got it right...

Love who you love, be with who you need, get the same benifits, and you dont have to divorce if you change or grow away from a person. Which, people dont ever wanna admit, but "staying together thru the long haul" is not a trait that many people have. Our instincts tell us to bail, esp as the social stigma for divorce is clearly vanishing.

I personally , want to have my white prince on the horse someday and be a wife and a family, but if I decided ever to not to... that would make the most sense to me, what they got over there.

Dont know if mypost was foggy adn didnt make sense LOL , i hope it did.

When we got married, we did not say the traditional vows (to love, honor and charish) These are our exact vows:


"I choose you as my (husband/wife), my lover, my best friend, and my partner in life. I promise to love you and respect you always, and to treasure your love in my heart forever."

And so far we are living up to those vows.



Cat

I will start by saying that I still love my ex-wife, but after 18 years, 5 boys and our son Blaine being murdered, we grew apart. She and I had met in '82 and dated for a couple months before we broke up. 3 years went by and we reuntited and got married. I was 25 and she was 21. I have no regrets of our decision to get married, I only regret not being a better father/husband.

The only thing that I think is missing is communication :)  Other than that, your wife sounds like a very smart woman ;)


Well, I suppose telling me the list was communication, so that would be 9 things. I agree though, she is smarter than myself most of the time ( though I crush her in Scrabble and card games ).  ;)

our sex was excellent. our problem was, we've been friends for 15 years and that friendship was dying....we were incompatible as lovers and we were meant as friends. i love her, i will always love her...just not as lovers because we are too much alike...if that makes sense...?


I understand what you mean, Sputnik. Now for fear of divulging too much info, look away now.  ;D

Lisa imagined that I would like her in sexy lingerie but I knew she wasn't the kind of woman that could pull that off (wearing sexy lingerie not pulling off the sexy lingerie . . .  ??? . . .Anyway . . .). There are some women that I believe could get away with wearing it but there are some that would look incredible in just lace or something less tacky. It's very much a psychological thing (especially with me  ;D).