Okay some states have declared someone an adult at 18.  I agree with this, in my state at 18 people can: drive, hunt, own and carry a firearm, smoke, buy lottery tickets, live on your own/parents can kick you out of the house, and just about anything except drink.  When I first turned 18, 18 year-olds could drink yet some stupid 18,19, and 20 year-olds ruined that, but people of all ages act stupid with alcohol.  Also New York has said in their state a parent can keep a person until 21, which I think is for parents who can't let go.  So what say you?  18 or 21?

I am agreeing with 80s Cheerleader.

There is nothing wrong with technically being called an adult at 18 (allowing a person the privelledges of a grown up) but I know 21 year olds and over who still haven't got past the awkward adolescent stages of life yet.  :)

Legally, I think it should be 18 across the board.  I figure if you're old enough to die for your country, you should be old enough to enjoy a beer before you do so.  I have to admit, though, that I don't consider someone an adult until they act like one.  I know some 15-16 year olds who are far more mature than some 20+ year olds.


I forgot about that!  I guess the argument is ''its safer to throw an 18 year-old in Iraq with guns blazing then to give him a drink.''

If you're old enough to die for your country, you are old enough to drink alcohol.

I figure if you're old enough to die for your country, you should be old enough to enjoy a beer before you do so..

Damn right.  I don't know if it's the same over there, but here you've got the somewhat ironic situation of 16/17 year olds being legally allowed to have sex, but not being able to watch it...

darn right.  I don't know if it's the same over there, but here you've got the somewhat ironic situation of 16/17 year olds being legally allowed to have sex, but not being able to watch it...



Yes its the same in America, a 16 year-old can have sex but you must be 18 to watch it via internet, strip club, or in bedroom.

I chose 18.  Because kids that are 18, 19 & 20 (not including kids younger than 18) are going to do whatever they can to obtain alcohol whether it be using fake i.d.'s or asking someone of age to purchase it for them, which are both illegal.  I know I used to do it, as did all of my friends.  Let them drink at 18, it just MIGHT teach some responsibilty & more important it might alleviate alot of the binge drinking at that age.

I think it should be 18.  Like other people have said, if you are old enough to die for your country, I would consider you an adult.

Under the get-government-off-your-back Reagan Administration, states were strongarmed into raising legal drinking ages to 21.  The federal government can't order the states to impose a specific drinking age, but they could rescind federal highway funds if the states didn't comply.

The argument for the high drinking age centered on drunk driving.  The additional ban on drinking in three more of the young and wild years would save a lot of lives.  Unlike other parts of the world, America is centered completely around the automobile.  You don't walk to the pub here.  You drive to the bar.  True, there are many urban areas where you can walk or ride the bus, but you can't make the drinking age 18 city and 21 country. That's silly.

I don't agree.  The right to purchase and consume alcohol should kick in 18.  Eighteen is the "age of majority." 

As far as "you're an adult when you start acting like one" goes, there's some merit to that argument.*  I always say, when you get adult plumbing, you need adult wiring.  I wish our society would start expecting adult responsibility out of youth a lot earlier.  Twelve year olds should be expected to act like young adults.  In return for responsible behavior, they should be accorded adult respect.  Right now, we do the opposite.  I see arrested development among college students, and 28-year olds thinking of themselves as "kids." 
Recently, UMass wanted to institute a policy of calling the parents of "minor" students who got busted for drinking.  There couldn't be a worse message to college students than that.  Caught drunk and disorderly?  Call your own parents if you want--for bail money!

It seems young people used to want more than anything to be treated like adults. 
Now they don't care, they're having too much fun.

Anyway, that's my rant.

Exactly.  If I'm not mistaken, the only thing you have to be 21 for is to drink.  Our county recently (within the last year or so) passed a law allowing 18 year olds to serve alcohol.  Many people were against it saying "they'll serve their underage friends, etc."  A "sting" operation of some of the bars/restaurants that were hiring 18-20 year olds and allowing them to serve alcohol found that NONE of the "kids" were serving underage drinkers, it was the older servers who were. :D


Serving alcohol is much different than selling it a liquor store however.  The reason the age went back up, is because 18 year olds are seniors (or juniors) in high school, and more likely to buy a case of bear for their underage friends.  In a controlled setting like a bar, they would never risk that (lose their job, maybe their driving license).  Drinking outside in the woods, far less issues with passing it around to all gathered. 

It would make more sense if the law was written to allow 18-21 year olds to be served, but not allowed to purchase from liquor stores.  It might even allow the college age kids to drink a little more responsibly (you can't get totally trashed without someone around to drive you home).

Legally, I think it should be 18 across the board.  I figure if you're old enough to die for your country, you should be old enough to enjoy a beer before you do so.  I have to admit, though, that I don't consider someone an adult until they act like one.  I know some 15-16 year olds who are far more mature than some 20+ year olds.



I agree with you 100%. I have know 15-16 year olds were were more mature than people in their 30s-40s.  :o



Cat

Gee, this is a tough one. I considered myself a legal adult when I turned 18. However, there are certain things you can legally do as soon as you turn 21 (like drink, which I have no desire to do, even tho I'm almost 24) and things you can do three years before that. I would have to say "undecided." :-\\

I heard that some people did a brain study and learned that the brain isn't actually fully matured until the person is about 21.  Ok, I guess that makes sense, but I sure would like to enjoy my b*tch beer....legally, at the age of 18.
BTW, I voted "when they act like one."  Even though at 18, people are like "Wow! You're an adult now!"  I have met many 18, 19, 20, 21, etc. yr. olds who still act like they're in high school....junior high, even.

It would make more sense if the law was written to allow 18-21 year olds to be served, but not allowed to purchase from liquor stores.  It might even allow the college age kids to drink a little more responsibly (you can't get totally trashed without someone around to drive you home).


Agreed.

I said 18 because I think 21 is too long to be controlled by your.parents and "when you act like one" avaoids a whole bunch of legal/social issues, like who decides when you are acting like an adult?  At least in my state, a father is no longer liable for child support when the kid becomes 18 (I still supply my almost 19 year old with lots of support).  She is old enough to make decisions for herself, and hopefully, we have given her the values and judguement to make them.  The two things you can give your kids are roots and wings.  I think I and my X have given them both - with a bit of help, recently, from Cat.

I chose 18.  Because kids that are 18, 19 & 20 (not including kids younger than 18) are going to do whatever they can to obtain alcohol whether it be using fake i.d.'s or asking someone of age to purchase it for them, which are both illegal.  I know I used to do it, as did all of my friends.  Let them drink at 18, it just MIGHT teach some responsibilty & more important it might alleviate alot of the binge drinking at that age.


I don't buy that argument. If the legal drinking age was 18, then 15-, 16-, and 17-year-olds would be getting fake IDs to buy alcohol.

At any rate, by federal standards, you are an adult at 18. However, because studies found that a large number of drunk driving accidents involved younger drivers (16-20 years old), Congress uses federal highway funding as an incentive for states to raise the drinking age to 21. The states could let people drink as young as 18, but then they wouldn't get all the nice roads.  :P

The legal drinking age in Australia has been 18 for a long time. There are problems with underage drinking, but mostly it's with older people buying alcohol for younger drinkers. Raising the drinking age would not solve this. The question of matury being reached at a particular age is an open one however. I've known people mature and responsible enough to be certified as adults at 16 and many, many people who haven't "grown-up" until they've been well into their 20s, but the fact is you have to draw the line somewhere, don't you?  ;)

The legal drinking age in Australia has been 18 for a long time. There are problems with underage drinking, but mostly it's with older people buying alcohol for younger drinkers. Raising the drinking age would not solve this. The question of matury being reached at a particular age is an open one however. I've known people mature and responsible enough to be certified as adults at 16 and many, many people who haven't "grown-up" until they've been well into their 20s, but the fact is you have to draw the line somewhere, don't you?  ;)


I think you hit the nial on the head.

Legally, I think it should be 18 across the board.  I figure if you're old enough to die for your country, you should be old enough to enjoy a beer before you do so.  I have to admit, though, that I don't consider someone an adult until they act like one.  I know some 15-16 year olds who are far more mature than some 20+ year olds.


I agree with you, Cheer.

At 18, you're allowed to dance naked in front of men who are drinking beer.  But you are not allowed to drink beer.  Ridiculous.

I know it's oft repeated, but if you're allowed to sign contracts, vote, smoke, get married, and join the military, you should be able to buy alcohol like everyone else in the age of majority.  This is the argument young people used to win the right to vote.  Before 1968 (?) the age of enfranchisement was 21.  Young people said, "We're fighting and dying in your war, and we're not allowed to have a say in who runs the country? No way!"

There's some yo-yo out there who wants to give teens a fraction of a vote.  A quarter vote for 14 and 15 year olds, and a half vote for 16 and 17 year olds.  That makes no sense to me.  If you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound as far as I'm concerned.  I'd love to see 14 years have the vote just to see the lies politicians would tell to get the youth vote.  "...and if I'm elected, you'll never have to go to school again, and you'll get to tell your parents to take their curfew and STUFF IT!"  None of these campaign promises need to be kept, that's the beauty of campaign promises!

First the voting age was 21, now 18, I think there is a good chance it will be 16, and now some California senator wants 14 and up?  When are we going to draw a line, personally I draw it at 16 but if the voting age stays 18 i'll be happy with that. 

You notice in Europe people can drink at 16, but its fricking 21 over here?  18 year-olds are ready, and like 21 year-olds will act stupid, but not enough to infringe on their rights.  18-smoke 21-drinking, which is worse?

First the voting age was 21, now 18, I think there is a good chance it will be 16, and now some California senator wants 14 and up?  When are we going to draw a line, personally I draw it at 16 but if the voting age stays 18 i'll be happy with that. 

You notice in Europe people can drink at 16, but its fricking 21 over here?  18 year-olds are ready, and like 21 year-olds will act stupid, but not enough to infringe on their rights.  18-smoke 21-drinking, which is worse?

Europeans smoke a heck of a lot more than Americans.  Maybe that's why they're so much skinnier, smoking curbs the appetite!

You notice in Europe people can drink at 16, but its fricking 21 over here?  18 year-olds are ready, and like 21 year-olds will act stupid, but not enough to infringe on their rights.  18-smoke 21-drinking, which is worse?


In parts of Europe maybe but in Britain you have to be 18 to buy drink.  I think if you are eating a meal in a licensed restaurant then an 18 year old could buy a 16 year old a drink with the meal.

I'm usually pretty liberal on a lot of matters, but on this issue I think I'll take what seems to be the more conservative stance.  I think in the United States the drinking age should stay at age 21.  Yeah it's true you can die for your country at age 18, and if this was all decided on paper that would be great, but it's not taking into consideration a lot of other more practical real life problems.  Like others have said, a lot of high school kids can be 18 and bring liquour into schools and give it to their underage little friends.   Perhaps you're not immature at 18 in that you can't take care of yourself and be responsible in numerous other ways, but a lot 18 year olds can still be really reckless and immortal thinking, endagering themselves and others.  They haven't lived enough to know how fragile and short life is.  I know a lot of other countries have a drinking age of 18, but they aren't necessarily the car culture that America is.

Maybey there should be a law that says if you are 18-20 and can prove you are serving in the military, you can buy beer.  Then maybey that will give a rest to this whole, "They can die for their country but can't buy alcohol" argument.  And perhaps restuarants and bars should serve alcohol to 18-20 year olds, but only serve it.  Anyway, if you're 18, in  3 years this will become a moot issue anyway and you are likely to suddenly become indifferent on the topic.     

I'm usually pretty liberal on a lot of matters, but on this issue I think I'll take what seems to be the more conservative stance.  I think in the United States the drinking age should stay at age 21.  Yeah it's true you can die for your country at age 18, and if this was all decided on paper that would be great, but it's not taking into consideration a lot of other more practical real life problems.  Like others have said, a lot of high school kids can be 18 and bring liquour into schools and give it to their underage little friends.   Perhaps you're not immature at 18 in that you can't take care of yourself and be responsible in numerous other ways, but a lot 18 year olds can still be really reckless and immortal thinking, endagering themselves and others.  They haven't lived enough to know how fragile and short life is.  I know a lot of other countries have a drinking age of 18, but they aren't necessarily the car culture that America is.

Maybey there should be a law that says if you are 18-20 and can prove you are serving in the military, you can buy beer.  Then maybey that will give a rest to this whole, "They can die for their country but can't buy alcohol" argument.  And perhaps restuarants and bars should serve alcohol to 18-20 year olds, but only serve it.  Anyway, if you're 18, in  3 years this will become a moot issue anyway and you are likely to suddenly become indifferent on the topic.     


18 year-olds can carry handguns, live on their own, have their parents literally kick them out of the house at 18, smoke, die for your country, drive, hunt, have a job, pay taxes, and basically do EVERYTHING that is legal except drink, that makes NO sense.  And the question was, when do you consider people adults?

And also, for once, I agree with Don Carlos, I think making a person stay (even though you can't in most states) with a parent until 21 is an excuse for parents who just can't let go.

^Yeah I know, those are good points.  But doing any of that other stuff doesn't really affect their judgement while operating 2+ tons of metal on a highway,....and they do tend to be more reckless then people with some more years under their belt.  So for practical reasons, I think the drinking age should stay at 21 in the U.S.  Let other countries do what they want.

18

In my whole country it's 18, and I have never really encountered any problems because of it.

^Yeah I know, those are good points.  But doing any of that other stuff doesn't really affect their judgement while operating 2+ tons of metal on a highway,....and they do tend to be more reckless then people with some more years under their belt.  So for practical reasons, I think the drinking age should stay at 21 in the U.S.  Let other countries do what they want.


People drink drive no matter how old there are. There isn't really that much difference in terms of maturity between an 18 year old and someone who's 21, but there is a world of difference between a 21 year old and a 25 year old. So why not raise the drinking age to 25?

18 year-olds can carry handguns, live on their own, have their parents literally kick them out of the house at 18, smoke, die for your country, drive, hunt, have a job, pay taxes,

And you want them drinking when they do that? ;)



People drink drive no matter how old there are.

Studies showed that more drunk driving accidents involved young drivers, and that's why the drinking age was raised. Yes, older people drive drunk, too, but it's not as high a percentage of them.



Exactly.  People are truly delusional if they think people under the age of 18 don't drink or have fake id's.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. However, you'd be delusional if you think lowering the drinking age to 18 would eliminate the use of fake IDs.

I voted "When they act like one", meaning sometime after 21. I lot of people over 21 are even more irresponsible than some 14-year olds. :(

That makes perfect sense if you're strictly talking percentages.  For example, 100 accidents out of 100000 driving "youth" (for the sake of this example, let's take 18-20 year olds) is going to create a much higher percentage than 100 accidents out of 2000000 "older" drivers (age 21 and up).  It's basic mathematics.  And, you can't really include 21 and over in the "young" drivers category because that would ruin the argument that it should be 21.

I think it was percentage of accidents, not percentage of drivers.

If, for example, 50 out of every 100 drunk-driving accidents was caused by a driver under 21, that would be a very scary statistic - since the number of drivers under 21 should be much less than the number of drivers over 21.

I doubt the results were that dramatic... it was probably more like:

% of drunk drivers
under 21
21-30
31-40
etc...

and the "under 21" portion was higher than the rest, or something like that.

Correction: looks like it had to do with increases in drunk driving among that age group and overall:

http://www.cspinet.org/booze/mlpafact.htm

A Michigan study found that police reports of “had been drinking” crashes increased 35%, while the incidence of nighttime single-vehicle crashes among young men increased 17% after the state reduced its MLPA from 21 to 18.

If I'm reading that correctly, that says that there was a 35% increase of crashes across all age groups - meaning the 18-20 age group probably represented the bulk of that 35% increase. (And that age group was probably nowhere near 35% of all drivers.)

I just don't see any reason why everything else is 18 and one thing is 21.  I guess the idea is guns are better for people who are 18 then alcohol is.

I just don't see any reason why everything else is 18 and one thing is 21.  I guess the idea is guns are better for people who are 18 then alcohol is.
What is the big obsession with alcohol? If people really knew how much alcohol can destroy lives and tear families apart, we wouldn't even need to be having this discussion! Only in a perfect world I guess. :(

Well, according to the the cdc websiteOver the past 20 years, alcohol-related fatal crash rates have decreased by 60 percent for drivers ages 16 to 17 years and 55 percent for drivers ages 18 to 20 years.  It looks like most of those statistics on the cspinet page are from the 70s and 80s.  The one you quoted was from 1973.  Things were MUCH different then than they are now.

Let's raise drinking age to 27.  With this rate of success, alcohol related fatalities will be down to -20 percent by 2020.  It'll be MORE dangerous to drive sober!
:-\\

Well, according to the the cdc websiteOver the past 20 years, alcohol-related fatal crash rates have decreased by 60 percent for drivers ages 16 to 17 years and 55 percent for drivers ages 18 to 20 years.  It looks like most of those statistics on the cspinet page are from the 70s and 80s.  The one you quoted was from 1973.  Things were MUCH different then than they are now.


You're missing the correlation.

From the site I referenced:

In 1984, Congress passed the National Minimum Purchase Age Act, to encourage each state to enact a minimum legal purchase age (MLPA) of 21 by 1986.

From your site:

Over the past 20 years, alcohol-related fatal crash rates have decreased by 60 percent for drivers ages 16 to 17 years and 55 percent for drivers ages 18 to 20 years.

I wonder what happened in the past 20 years (since 1984) that might have caused that decrease?

Yes, the statistics for drunk driving amoung youths are different now. They are different now because 20 years ago Congress started a movement to raise the drinking age to 21 across the nation.

Now, now, they didn't say whether it was working on the female drivers.  ;)

At any rate, to address that trend, the site recommends:

Zero tolerance laws for drivers younger than 21 years old in all states

They don't seem to think that lowering the drinking age is a good idea. The message is that raising the legal age has done a lot of good (the 55-60% decrease in crash rates in drivers under 21), and that consistent enforcement will do even more to reduce fatalities in that age group.

Yes... I think both that and the age limit came with (or caused?) a shift in the attitudes toward drunk driving over the last couple decades. It's a good trend - and if the penalties were harsh enough, and were shown to be an effective deterrant, you might then convince me that we should lower the age limit back to 18. Maybe. ;)

I just don't see any reason why everything else is 18 and one thing is 21.  I guess the idea is guns are better for people who are 18 then alcohol is.


For once I find myself agreeing with you GWB. As I said earlier, in Australia the drinking age has been 18 for decades. The idea that a 21 year old is somehow mature enough to be able to drink while a person only three years younger (but still legally an adult) is not is foolishness. I think if a study was conducted among 17 to 22 year olds, the average level of maturity of most of the subjects would be around the same, and that would sink the whole "21 drinking age" argument.

For once I find myself agreeing with you GWB. As I said earlier, in Australia the drinking age has been 18 for decades. The idea that a 21 year old is somehow mature enough to be able to drink while a person only three years younger (but still legally an adult) is not is foolishness. I think if a study was conducted among 17 to 22 year olds, the average level of maturity of most of the subjects would be around the same, and that would sink the whole "21 drinking age" argument.

I don't agree with it, but their reasoning is the higher the drinking age, the harder it will be for younger teens to be alcohol.  A lot of 18-year olds, especially males, look 15, and a lot of 15-year olds look 18.  A lot of 21-year olds look 18, and a lot of 18-year olds look 21.  Would you rather have an 18-year old buying beer, or a 15-year old buying beer.
I got carded until I was 29!  In the right lighting, some dopey bouncer would card me today.  Hasn't happened in years, though.  One of our local supermarkets has blanket policy of carding everybody.  I've seen them card guys with gray hair.  It's a nuisance, but they'll never lose their beer-and-wine license!

The fact is you can't tell how old someone is just by looking at them. I had my hair cut and dyed at Easter and people immediately told me I looked 10 years younger. They weren't just being nice either, because I've since had complete strangers tell me I look about 26. My 14 year old daughter could make herself look 18 in a snap (although she couldn't really pass for 18 because she's too immature to pull it off). The best solution is, if in doubt, card them. Then it won't matter what the legal age is, because if they don't have a card that says that's how old they are, they can't get served.

The fact is you can't tell how old someone is just by looking at them. I had my hair cut and dyed at Easter and people immediately told me I looked 10 years younger. They weren't just being nice either, because I've since had complete strangers tell me I look about 26. My 14 year old daughter could make herself look 18 in a snap (although she couldn't really pass for 18 because she's too immature to pull it off). The best solution is, if in doubt, card them. Then it won't matter what the legal age is, because if they don't have a card that says that's how old they are, they can't get served.

When I was 21 I looked like I was 15, that SUCKED!  I mean, the attitude you get from bouncers and bartenders is totally obnoxious.  I knew kids who had five o'clock shadow when they were 15.  The right liquor store would sell them a bottle of whisky no questions asked. 

Yeah, but the point is they shouldn't without checking first. I don't know what the laws are in the US, but here it's not actually illegal for underage people to drink. Indeed, in some instances in the state where I live, it's not even illegal for them to be in bars or areas where alcohol is served. It's illegal to supply them with alcohol, however, so if you sell a bottle of booze to a kid, the kid will get in trouble for having it, but you're going to be the one who pays the fine or does the time!

The fact is even if the drinking age was 30 kids would still get alcohol.  18 and 21 year-olds are only 3 years apart.  So many 18 year-olds would get alcohol from friends who are 21, from big brothers or sisters or maybe even from their parents.  Also fake I.D.'s are getting easier to make and obtain.


In my state for both tobacco and alcohol the checking I.D. policy is ''card unless they look 27 or older.''

18. It works here, and has for as long as I can remember.

Alot of people seem to be mentioning what other countries do. We aren't other countries. This is America, remember? I don't care what other countries do. We're going to hell in a hand basket and now the age at which people should be allowed to drink alchohol is important. If we make it 18 then what? A few years down the road some other irresponsible person will want to make it 16 then 14. Where will it end? 21 is fine. Someone mentioned some senitors who want to make the voting age lower. Of course they do, they'll do anything for votes. Hense, illegal immigrants may be allowed to vote. Sure, that makes sense. Lets get drunk and go vote.       

I've always thought that if you're old enough to die for your country and vote for your leader, you're old enough to drink.  For a lot of people, maturity level has nothing to do with age...I've known 18 year olds that are much more mature than some 40 year olds I've known.  Besides, when I was underage, there was always someone willing to buy alcohol and I'm sure that nothing has changed in that regard. (not that I condone underage drinking, mind you.)  I've always thought that the legal age should be 18.

I too think the age of adulthood should be 18 across the board, including for alcohol. What are kids supposed to do anyway when they are 19-20? My only apprehension to this is that I'd feel a little bit leery about having high-school seniors in bars. For some reason I get the feeling that there'd be a whole lot more barfights, especially between rival schools, but it's probably just me.

IMy only apprehension to this is that I'd feel a little bit leery about having high-school seniors in bars. For some reason I get the feeling that there'd be a whole lot more barfights, especially between rival schools, but it's probably just me.


Actually, you're right, AL-B.  Back in the early '80s, when the drinking age was 18 in New Jersey, there were alot of fights between high school seniors of rival schools in the small bars.  It got so bad, that some of the bars banned the kids from one particular high school that liked to start sh*t with kids from other schools.  When the drinking age was raised to 19, it tapered off, but some high school seniors still got in with other people's cards.

Heck, come out to my neck of the woods.  It's a regular occurrence on Saturday nights in the fall, even with the drinking age at 21 ;)


I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same, don't they?  ;)

Alot of people seem to be mentioning what other countries do. We aren't other countries. This is America, remember? I don't care what other countries do. We're going to hell in a hand basket and now the age at which people should be allowed to drink alchohol is important. If we make it 18 then what? A few years down the road some other irresponsible person will want to make it 16 then 14. Where will it end? 21 is fine. Someone mentioned some senitors who want to make the voting age lower. Of course they do, they'll do anything for votes. Hense, illegal immigrants may be allowed to vote. Sure, that makes sense. Lets get drunk and go vote.       


We, from 'other countries' are simply putting our opinions forward, Tbullsr.

Alot of people seem to be mentioning what other countries do. We aren't other countries. This is America, remember? I don't care what other countries do. We're going to hell in a hand basket and now the age at which people should be allowed to drink alchohol is important. If we make it 18 then what? A few years down the road some other irresponsible person will want to make it 16 then 14. Where will it end? 21 is fine. Someone mentioned some senitors who want to make the voting age lower. Of course they do, they'll do anything for votes. Hense, illegal immigrants may be allowed to vote. Sure, that makes sense. Lets get drunk and go vote.       


Interestingly Tbullsr, where I am sitting this is NOT America  :o

"I don't care what other countries do" you said.  ::)  And that is part of the problem.  All other people are trying to do is give you a perspective...

Yes, this site is US-based.  No, this site is not exclusively comprised of US-based members.

Interestingly Tbullsr, where I am sitting this is NOT America  :o

"I don't care what other countries do" you said.   ::)  And that is part of the problem.  All other people are trying to do is give you a perspective...

Yes, this site is US-based.  No, this site is not exclusively comprised of US-based members.

I second that...and I AM sitting in America!

I second that...and I AM sitting in America!


Maxwell's Smart  ;)

It's kinda screwy here in Colorado....up until the early 1980's you could legally drink beer...it was 3.2 and nasty as opposed to "Regular stregnth." Problem is that they changed the law so you had to be 21 to drink beer and yet they STILL make that nasty 3.2 crap to sell at the 7-11's :P Believe it or not Utah is worse....they ONLY have regular beer in State owned Liquor stores that resemble minature prisons and the prices are way higher for the normal stuff! I always wondered how those mormons got so rich..j/k  ;) Anyway...since I have NEVER supported the draft and have run into SO many 18 year olds that still act like babies, I voted "When They act like adults" :-\\

I definitely say 18, since I'm going to be 18 in less than a year. This bothers me so much. At 18 in my state (Ohio) I am a legal adult for everything, but can't drink. Thats bs. Which is why when, I turn 18, I'm buying a plane ticket straight to London, and leaving this hell hole.

I definitely say 18, since I'm going to be 18 in less than a year. This bothers me so much. At 18 in my state (Ohio) I am a legal adult for everything, but can't drink. Thats bs. Which is why when, I turn 18, I'm buying a plane ticket straight to London, and leaving this hell hole.


Surely, Brian, there must be somwewhere closer than London that you can get a drink ?  :)

You know, Canada's not too far away, a couple of hours in a car and a ferry and you're there ;) 

..then a few beers and a couple of hours drive back?

And, let's not forget that the founding fathers of our country were not originally from here.  And, many of our laws are based on the laws of England.  Why shouldn't this one be similar as well?

The founding fathers didn't put in the minimum age laws for alcohol. The laws changing the minimum age to 21 were passed in the 80's.

And earlier in the 20th century, we tried banning alcohol altogether. I don't think England ever tried that.



Heck, people want to base laws on the Bible, I'd much rather base it on something that I see is working in other countries.  Believe it or not, American teens (18-20) are not any different than the teens in the UK or Australia.  If it's not a problem there, why should it be one here?


The American culture is significantly different - enough so that we probably could say that teens here are different from those in UK or Australia. What's our juvenile offenders rate compared to other countries? What's our juvenile homicide rate compared to other countries?

The American culture is significantly different - enough so that we probably could say that teens here are different from those in UK or Australia. What's our juvenile offenders rate compared to other countries? What's our juvenile homicide rate compared to other countries?


I respectfully disagree Womberty.  Up until maybe 20 years ago I would have agreed with that statement, but the advent of mass communication has effectively ensured that we atre becoming more like each other.

This is especially true for the age groups that are more easily influenced by trends and fashions, and that is the age group that we are discussing here.  I think that you would find that apart from accents, that isn't a great amount of difference between the behaviours of most teens in the western world these days.

FB  :)

..then a few beers and a couple of hours drive back?

You can't bring booze or smokes IN, but you can take prescription drugs OUT.  Good deal, eh?

  Why do we focus on 18 vs 21? 21 is too high, 18 is too low. 19 is good, although I'll negotiate if you don't agree. 20 is ideal!!!!

I'm 22 going on 23 and I still think that it's ridiculous that 20 is considered underage for anything, especially considering that the '1' was transferred to a '2'

I remember when I was 20 and heading up to British Columbia. My parents and I went to an American Indian casino while we were still in California, and I didn't gamble because I thought you had to be 21. Then I found out you had to be 18. I put a few coins in. I really don't gamble. Once in British Columbia, my dad allowed me to drink, since legal drinking age is 19 there. I had a beer. Didn't like it. I don't really like to drink.

I don't drink, I don't gamble, turning 21 was nothing to me. So what's my point? I still think that it's pathetic that 20 would be considered underaged for anything.

In my book, 18-year-olds are still minors. I mean, many people are still in high school, or think as if they still are, when they're 18. I know I was. But when you turn 19, you're almost immediately whisked into adulthood.

I say no drinking at 18, limited drinking at 19, and turn fully legal at 20.

Hmmm i shall just make a point here.. i think this illustrates it all perfectly..

In england, the law for everything is 18 basically.. yeah you can have a motorcycle at 16 etc and engage in intercourse at 16, but you get everything when you turn 18.

I have been knocking back the beers since i was about 12, my mum and dad have no problem with me having a few, so i don't end up like on the park with a bottle of cider and a joint.. no problem. I am now 16 and i know of 3 people who can hold there liqour better than me. My uncle a 6'5 300 Lb man... my friend Dan who seems to be one large stomach and out next Door neighbors brother. That's it.. yet oh no I'm only 16.. it should be illegal for me to drink, after all i am just going to walk home and go to bed, not get in a car and mow somebody down.

Basically you are an adult once you can act like one and handle yourself accordingly, I believe that i am personally very mature. Although i have just left school I'm not dossing around i am going out to find a god job and i am continuing my education at night. I don't do drugs, (well not when i am of conscious mind anyhow) and i am a generally well respected person. These are all signs of a very adult nature.. and yet the law says that I am still a kid.. i have nearly the same rights as a 6 year old. This strikes me as odd.. however it is necessary. To answer the broader question, 21 is a real dumbass age to push drinking back to. If i wasn't able to drink until i was 21 i would be P/O'd... and whenever possible i would go out, get as much liqour as possible.. go somewhere drink it all, probably do some drugs and end up in trouble. Yet if i just go down to the pub, there is no trouble, we shoot some pool, chat, watch sports and at closing time i go home happy.

...... i am going out to find a god job


i didn't know he was recruiting  ;)

Legally, I think it should be 18 across the board.  I figure if you're old enough to die for your country, you should be old enough to enjoy a beer before you do so. 


Exactly

What are the ages in others countries such as Australia, Canada, and NZ?

Legally here it's 18 to anything except gamble (21) or do drugs (illegal at any age). 21 is still considered a milestone age though.

I voted "when they start acting like one"  8)

When they act like one.  I went to college with so-called "adults" and they acted more like 5 year olds. 

Man, when I was 18 six years ago, I look back on myself and think - whew, I was such a KID, even though I felt SO adult. I wasn't even near what I was at 21 or even now. I mean, obviously you just keep getting a little wiser as you age and experience things, but 18 is still too young to say you should have certain rights to certain things. I feel like age 21 is a fine age to start drinking. Just tacks on extra years later in life, so why not wait it out? lol.

(and yes, we all drink before 21, but probably not quite as much as we would if it were legalised)

(and yes, we all drink before 21, but probably not quite as much as we would if it were legalised)



Now now, not everyone does.  I never touched the stuff before I turned 21.  In fact, I maybe have 1 or 2 drinks a year if that and I've only been legal for going on 3 years now.  Should the drinking age be lowered?  I don't know.  If you make it less enticing, maybe underage drinking would decrease since the allure of doing something "adult" would wear off.

Now now, not everyone does.  I never touched the stuff before I turned 21.  In fact, I maybe have 1 or 2 drinks a year if that and I've only been legal for going on 3 years now.  Should the drinking age be lowered?  I don't know.  If you make it less enticing, maybe underage drinking would decrease since the allure of doing something "adult" would wear off.


Sorry about that. I kinda felt I did generalize that a bit  (I guess I was trying to please both crowds on that one, lol). But, yes, there are some people who are fortunate enough to not touch it. And to be honest it isn't anything special. I also maybe drink a few drinks within a year. I try to not let peer pressure get the best of me because everyone knows I can't handle more than a few sips. I'm just not one of those types.

I think decreasing it may two go ways. Yes, the allure may disappear, but all the while - it may just encourage it even more so. It's hard to say. Advertising may change due to the age limit being lowered. More drunk driving accidents may occur due to their possible lack of responsiblity at that age.

When they act like one...but we can't go around doing individual psychological tests to see if an individual person is a mentally an 'adult.' I just turned 20, and I think I have matured in many ways since I was 18. Just can't believe I'm so old!!! 20, that is like, a PROPER adult. I still feel like I'm 15...in many ways my life hasn't changed much at all since then.

Here in Aus the legal age for everything is 18...which I think is reasonable enough. 21 is a bit old.

Sorry about that. I kinda felt I did generalize that a bit  (I guess I was trying to please both crowds on that one, lol). But, yes, there are some people who are fortunate enough to not touch it. And to be honest it isn't anything special. I also maybe drink a few drinks within a year. I try to not let peer pressure get the best of me because everyone knows I can't handle more than a few sips. I'm just not one of those types.



I never had problems with peer pressure.  I know a lot of kids that did it was borderline funny watching them get pushed into doing something they otherwise wouldn't do.  I always wanted to run up to them and scream "Don't you have a backbone?!".

I never had problems with peer pressure.  I know a lot of kids that did it was borderline funny watching them get pushed into doing something they otherwise wouldn't do.  I always wanted to run up to them and scream "Don't you have a backbone?!".


I guess I have had some peer pressure get to me in the past, but one thing I can be proud of is that I've never been drunk. Yes, I've drank, but I remember doing so and never threw up afterwards. That goes to show how little I actually drink  ;D

I don't know if it has to do with not having a backbone for some people or if they just feel like they ought to just loosen up and give in. Yet, it's okay to give in sometimes, it's just being wise enough to know when to stop is where people have their faults.

I guess I have had some peer pressure get to me in the past, but one thing I can be proud of is that I've never been drunk. Yes, I've drank, but I remember doing so and never threw up afterwards. That goes to show how little I actually drink  ;D

I don't know if it has to do with not having a backbone for some people or if they just feel like they ought to just loosen up and give in. Yet, it's okay to give in sometimes, it's just being wise enough to know when to stop is where people have their faults.


The bottle turns perfectly sane people into utter fools...at first when you're young it's amusing to watch, but then it gets really tired and old quick, and then it's just a tad pathetic. No, it's more than a tad pathetic.

Fortunately I'm not one of those people who acts crazy when I've had a few...then again I'm not a big drinker either. I really don't see the point.

The bottle turns perfectly sane people into utter fools...at first when you're young it's amusing to watch, but then it gets really tired and old quick, and then it's just a tad pathetic. No, it's more than a tad pathetic.

Fortunately I'm not one of those people who acts crazy when I've had a few...then again I'm not a big drinker either. I really don't see the point.


Yes, I find it pathetic, too. For one thing, I know people are not drinking beer for the flavor. It's an obvious disgusting flavor that comes very close to how bile tastes after you've thrown up. A lot of people drink to have a good time, but all it seems to end up to is fighting, irrational thoughts, and soaked up livers. Doesn't sound like a very good time to me.

Yes, I find it pathetic, too. For one thing, I know people are not drinking beer for the flavor. It's an obvious disgusting flavor that comes very close to how bile tastes after you've thrown up. A lot of people drink to have a good time, but all it seems to end up to is fighting, irrational thoughts, and soaked up livers. Doesn't sound like a very good time to me.


I used to wonder how ANYONE could like the taste of beer..but believe it or not there ARE people who drink beer for their flavour  ;). But over time I've come to appreciate it a bit more (I'm no connosiuer though).

When they act like one.

I voted for when they act like one.

I used to wonder how ANYONE could like the taste of beer..but believe it or not there ARE people who drink beer for their flavour  ;). But over time I've come to appreciate it a bit more (I'm no connosiuer though).

Yeah I guess the taste appreciation comes with age, some people really savour the taste of 'real' ales over other drinks. Personally I've never liked beers or heavy drinks like that.

I will admit I don't mind the flavor of beer when I'm at a baseball game, as it comes off the draft and it seems to be more tolerable - especially on a hot day, lol  ;D

I've never touched beer.  I hate the smell of it and it looks like piss, so I won't touch it. 


I stick to my fruity mixed drinks.

I've never touched beer.  I hate the smell of it and it looks like piss, so I won't touch it. 


I stick to my fruity mixed drinks.


;D  Very true. Good for you on that :0)

I was legally able to drink when I was 19, I missed the age of 18 by 4 months.
Jan.1,1980 New Jersey raised the drinking age from 18 to 19, then a few years
later to 21.The biggest reason for the raise in age was to get alcohol out of the
High Schools.There are too many 18 year old seniors in high school, they didn't
want alcohol in H.S. nor kids missing school due to hangovers.Another reason was,
driving privileges start at 16 or 17, politicians wanted kids to get more driving experience
before being able to drink, drunk driving laws weren't as strict then.

I was legally able to drink when I was 19, I missed the age of 18 by 4 months.
Jan.1,1980 New Jersey raised the drinking age from 18 to 19, then a few years
later to 21.The biggest reason for the raise in age was to get alcohol out of the
High Schools.There are too many 18 year old seniors in high school, they didn't
want alcohol in H.S. nor kids missing school due to hangovers.Another reason was,
driving privileges start at 16 or 17, politicians wanted kids to get more driving experience
before being able to drink, drunk driving laws weren't as strict then.


I know in my high school, not being over the legal age didn't stop the Monday morning hangovers for some people.

I consider someone an adult when they're mature.. but legally, I think it either needs to be 21 for everything or 18 for everything.. prolly 18, because that's when you're supposedly out of the house.

I consider someone an adult when they're mature.. but legally, I think it either needs to be 21 for everything or 18 for everything.. prolly 18, because that's when you're supposedly out of the house.


These days kids are leaving the house at 25, even 30...lazy buggers some of them  :). I'm already 20 and I'm still living with the folks, but most people who live in Perth go to uni in Perth and live with their parents til they graduate. I plan to move cross-country when I start work in a couple of years, so should be interesting.

These days kids are leaving the house at 25, even 30...lazy buggers some of them  :). I'm already 20 and I'm still living with the folks, but most people who live in Perth go to uni in Perth and live with their parents til they graduate. I plan to move cross-country when I start work in a couple of years, so should be interesting.


Really? Odd.. my parents are kicking me out two days after my 18th Birthday.. I get to stay for my Birthday, then Independence Day, and then I'm out.

Damn lazy kids.

I say 18.

Even if you're old enough to move out, that doesn't necessarily mean you're wise enough to drink. 

And well, I'm still at home *gulp* and believe me, saying you're going to be moved out by 18 is a lot easier said than actually being done. Just wait. Juuuusstt wait...  ;)

And well, I'm still at home *gulp* and believe me, saying you're going to be moved out by 18 is a lot easier said than actually being done. Just wait. Juuuusstt wait...  ;)



Oh I know. I'm almost 19 and I'm still at home too :-[

Oh I know. I'm almost 19 and I'm still at home too :-[


And it's no big deal. I mean, if your parents are allowing you to stay home while you get on your feet - then that's an honorable thing to do. I started paying my mom rent about 2 1/2 years ago because she didn't have a second income to help her, so I feel if you're doing your part, then you have every right to stay and do the best you can until you can get out. Again, it's another maturity thing.

And it's no big deal. I mean, if your parents are allowing you to stay home while you get on your feet - then that's an honorable thing to do. I started paying my mom rent about 2 1/2 years ago because she didn't have a second income to help her, so I feel if you're doing your part, then you have every right to stay and do the best you can until you can get out. Again, it's another maturity thing.



I agree. As long as they dont mind, and I don't think I'm imposing on them, I don't think there's anything wrong with staying home for a few more years while you get on your feet.

I'm 23 and still at home.  I've been saving up money to move out into my own apartment and my parents said that they weren't going to throw my sister and I out when we turned 18.    I never worked through college because I never had the time, so I've been busting my ass now.

I'm 23 and still at home.  I've been saving up money to move out into my own apartment and my parents said that they weren't going to throw my sister and I out when we turned 18.    I never worked through college because I never had the time, so I've been busting my ass now.


That's great you've been able to save money. Plus, if you have a goal such as saving to leave home, then at least they know where you're heading, rather than you bumming off of them playing your Playstation all day long while eating doritos, lol  ;D

I've been working throughout college, but I have been able to balance it fairly well. I take either very early morning classes or late night classes. I still keep my GPA within 3.3 and I am saving money in my savings and paying my bills and paying rent. No wonder I go on shopping binges on Pay day - I need them by that time, lol.  ;D

I'm 23 and still at home.  I've been saving up money to move out into my own apartment and my parents said that they weren't going to throw my sister and I out when we turned 18. 

You're doing good.

  http://www.choosetosave.org

I chose to save on graduation.  I'm a "child of the 80s".  I'm due to retire within 5 years.  Do the math.  It's way before 65. :)

As for the original question:  "When they act like it."

I believe in a national 18 drinking age - if you're old enough to volunteer to get shot for your country, and if you're old enough to choose the next leader of your country, you're also old enough to have a beer before (and after!) doing either.  Good on ya.

But drinking beer doesn't make you an adult any more than going into a garage makes you a car.

Warning: random rant coming on, completely unrelated to your post:

Amateur drinkers:  Take your drinking seriously!  Life's too short to drink bad booze.  Explore safely, discover what you like, and when you've found what you like, drink for the taste, not to get drunk.  I'd rather spend $5 on a *really* good India Pale Ale (I like it bitter and hoppy), $40 on a fine Napa cabernet (perfect tannic/fruit/oak balance), $50 on a single malt (one 40-oz bottle will last me a year).  Better to stay sober than to drink poorly.

Amateur nondrinkers:  Learn to cook!  Life's also too short to eat bad food.  Anyone (and I mean anyone, we're talking "electric stove, cast-iron pan, cheap toaster oven") can cook an $60 steak dinner for two -- and all it'll cost you is $15 worth of steak, $2 worth of veggies, $0.50 worth of spices, and an optional $1-2 worth of cheap wine or port for the sauce.

Learn to eat and drink like a king, even if you don't have a king's ransom in the bank. When you're no longer spending $50/day for dinner, the bank account takes care of itself.  (And when you *want* that special KFC/BK/McD fast-food taste that can't be made at home, you can do so with a clean conscience, on account of you've had gourmet fare for two weeks in a row :)

I figure there outta be a flat "legal" age for everything. How come someone can be mature enough to kill or be killed, get maimed, ect in a war yet aren't mature enough to handle alcohol because it might harm there health? Or why is it that a 20 year old is branded a sex criminal for doing a 17yearold, yet some 45 yearold dude can get married to a 16yearold? (and no none of those things happened to me)

As to when someone actually becomes an adult that's another story. Believe it or not in our youth driven society, I even as a kid thought that one really didn't become an adult until their 30's. To me it was and still is the prime of most people's live when they still have their health yet have a bit more smarts and money.

As I said when this came up a couple of years ago, I think the age 21 drinking age is contributing to the sociolgical problem we are having with protracted adolescence. I also think the absolute prohibition against alcohol consumption before age 21 gives boozing-it both sense of mystique and rite of passage. In other countries, such as Portugal, France, or Italy, alcohol is much more integrated. Kids drink wine with the family dinner starting around puberty. Consequently, there is less alcohol abuse in these cultures. There is some for sure, but not like in America. Another problem America has is a culture of excess. Partying as loud, long, and hard as possible is a rite and entitlement young adults expect.

Believe it or not in our youth driven society, I even as a kid thought that one really didn't become an adult until their 30's. To me it was and still is the prime of most people's live when they still have their health yet have a bit more smarts and money.


Same here. When I was 10, I thought a 25 or 28, even a 30 year old was young and not in that much of a different league than I was, other than being bigger, etc of course.

Then again, alot of the 20somethings I was familar with were entertainers or movie characters (i.e. Wayne's World, the gang from Police Academy), so I had the impression you were automatically somewhat "cool" at that age.

You could argue that as a kid, I thought someone my age was younger THEN than I do now, just because I wasn't living through the "everyday" aspects of it myself and only saw their personalities.

Whenever you're done with puberty.

Whenever you're done with puberty.
Usually turns out much early that then?

18 is too young....I would find some middle ground. 20 perhaps

I definitely think the drinking age should be 18. Or raise the military volunteer and draft ages to 21.

Actually, how about the drinking age be 18 and the military age be 21?

As for the original question: when they act like one.

Yes its the same in America, a 16 year-old can have sex but you must be 18 to watch it via internet, strip club, or in bedroom.



In New York, 17 is the legal age for sex yet in Canada, it's 14.