::)I am appalled at the rudeness and lack of courtesy shown by some kids these days! When I was a kid,I never used foul language.....I would have gotten SMACKED if I even said 'hell' in the wrong context! And some kids tell ADULTS to 'go to h*ll' these days. I've heard cuss words said by three and four year olds! And they're cussing out any adults,including their parents! And some parents even think it's cute! And then there are the kids who BULLY and TEASE other kids. It really gets me-as a mental health consumer-when younger AND OLDER kids make fun of anyone who is not 'perfect' or 'cool'! How do YOU feel about it? My thought.....the PARENTS just don't give a damn about their kids' actions. >:(

It's interesting you talk about kids because I saw on British news recently that the teaching association are blaming parents for not giving their children the vital morals and education they need before they get to their school years. Of course, this got the back up of the Parenting association but I believe the teachers are right. Without certain parents doing their job properly, the teachers are going to have a hard time controlling the class until they reinstate corporal punishment.

Corporal punishment in schools will do no good whatsoever if there's not proper parental control: all you'll get is the education budget being used up paying for lawyers when parents start suiing for assault  >:(

I'm happy to say my children are very rarely rude (and never to other adults, teachers/parents etc), and I strongly believe this comes more from my wife and myself than the school, though a good school definitely helps (and a poor school can make life very difficult for parents who try)

I don't mean to be alarmist, but it's also an impending problem for society as a whole: when these children grow up, they're going to have no respect for others whatsoever and absolute zero social responsibility - kind of like their parents, squared.  This will be a problem for everyone in ten or fifteen years time.

As to what can be done about it - there are no quick fixes.  This is a problem that has taken a generation to "mature", and become noticeable, and it's going to take at least that long again to sort (if we start now, that is).  Parents must be made responsible for their children in a much stronger way, and they must be made aware of these responsibilities before their children start school.  If they want to exercise their right to free state-provided education, they should know that this right comes with the responsibility to ensure their child behaves.  Children swearing at school is bad enough, but when said child is told off by the teacher and the parents' reaction is to come into school and threaten the teacher (which is becoming quite worryingly prevalent), what chance has a teacher got to maintain discipline?

I could go on and on about this, but I guess I'd better stop now...

My ex and I paid attention to our boys and I'm happy to say that they turned out just fine.  Of course, I give credit to MY parents for the way they raised me :) My ex-wifes parents passed when she was very young....
I made sure that whenever something was shown on the tube, that demeaned parents....like that stupid Apple-Jacks commercial...plus a ton of other bad stuff....I discussed it with them and they realized just how stupid some of the things on television could really be.
There was an incident here just last week where a 12 year old girl had been invited to a birthday party....at the party a boy kissed her on the cheek, on a dare.  His girlfriend took offense to this. Then, when her mother told her to whoop that B*itch, the girl and her friends beat the crap out of the 12 year old girl....she is in a coma in a local hospital while the girls AND the idiot mother are in jail awaiting trial.

The problem lies in dicipline.  The youth of today don't have fear of thier parents because parents are starting to fear the children.  This may make me sound brutal, and I am probably going to catch a lot of flak for this, but corporal punishment at home.  It's way to much of a mine field for it to be at school, but parents should smack thier kids if they misbehave.  Nothing major, smack'em upside the head if they say or do something wrong, but tell them why afterwards, use the belt on the bum only for horrible offences.  Kids may be getting smarter, but are still stupid.  Sharp pain gets associated with what ever they did wrong, and they won't want to do it before to long.  Kids don't like to reason, more often than not they won't reason.  This method is more than 4000 years tested and proven.  Alternate methods rarely yield success, but this one works wonders.  Remember strick dicipline = strict adhearance, lax dickipline = lax adhearance.  Your not the kids friend, your the parent

The problem lies in dicipline.  The youth of today don't have fear of thier parents because parents are starting to fear the children.  This may make me sound brutal, and I am probably going to catch a lot of flak for this, but corporal punishment at home.  It's way to much of a mine field for it to be at school, but parents should smack thier kids if they misbehave.  Nothing major, smack'em upside the head if they say or do something wrong, but tell them why afterwards, use the belt on the bum only for horrible offences.  Kids may be getting smarter, but are still stupid.  Sharp pain gets associated with what ever they did wrong, and they won't want to do it before to long.  Kids don't like to reason, more often than not they won't reason.  This method is more than 4000 years tested and proven.  Alternate methods rarely yield success, but this one works wonders.  Remember strick dicipline = strict adhearance, lax dickipline = lax adhearance.  Your not the kids friend, your the parent
I know what you mean....my oldest used to always give us this "If you spank me, I'll call the cops" crap ::)

Corporal punishment in schools will do no good whatsoever if there's not proper parental control: all you'll get is the education budget being used up paying for lawyers when parents start suiing for assault  >:(


I agree with most of what you say, Philbo but Corporal punishment will do good if parents are not given the option to sue these teachers. Why didn't parents sue teachers 30 or 40 years ago when teachers were caning kids and now all of a sudden they are doing it now?

Todays younger teens need a good shake. The malls are just drowing with baggie pants,make-up wearing, cigerette smoking,disrespectful teens. The world is going in the can  :P





SmithsGirl

THE divorce rate is high.  Usually the divorced parents spoil their kids to death.  Also, they come from dysfunctional families.  Lack of discipline, unplanned pregnancy, divorce, it goes on, etc.  Parents are the number 1 reason, if they dude comes from a wack family, it's there parents and there parents parents parents.

PARENTS

THE divorce rate is high.  Usually the divorced parents spoil their kids to death.  Also, they come from dysfunctional families.  Lack of discipline, unplanned pregnancy, divorce, it goes on, etc.  Parents are the number 1 reason, if they dude comes from a wack family, it's there parents and there parents parents parents.

PARENTS
But with corporal punishment(spanking and stuff like that)SOME parents do CROSS THE THIN LINE to abusing. I'm speaking as someone who has been in my state's(New Jersey)foster care system,and a couple of homes I lived in had foster mothers who were abusive to the point of being SADISTIC! I was thrown to the kitchen floor,hard enough to give me a concussion,for mixing a baby's bottle the 'wrong' way! And that was just ONE abuse incident in that home! She was violent with her OWN kids too! You have to be careful when punishing and not let your ANGER get the best of you.

I am 15 and yes, even I am amazed at the way  my classmates act.  But, I hardly ever cussed (I do play a pretty crappy golf game, though, if that tells you anything), I never smoked, did drugs, etc. and don't plan on it either.  I do talk back to my parents sometimes but never in public, and never to other adults--that's just bad behavior.

I think the kids need something to do. They need to be involved in school activities like sports and other activities. They don't need to be dropped off at Malls while the parents go do whatever it is they do. My daughter is in track and choir this year. She has awesome friends that also have parents that give a d*** about them. They are some of the lucky ones I guess. Our local Mall has a new rule called MB16 which means, kids have to be 16 or older on Fri. and Sat. nights after 4:00, to be in the Mall without a parent. If they are there without a parent and it's 4:00 they have to leave. It really caused a big stink in the area, mainly because parents were mad that they couldn't drop their kids off there anymore on those nights. I think as long as there are parents that don't give a d***, there are going to be unruly kids. :(

I do agree that discipline is a problem. But a lot of that comes from empty threats. "If you don't stop that, you are going to be sorry." "I told you to stop it." "I will give you 5 minutes to stop it." etc. etc. Instead of just threatening kids with time-outs, no t.v. or whatever, parents need to follow-through. Kids really have to learn that there are consequences to their actions. But parents don't do that because of a lot of reasons, like laziness, they don't want their kids to hate them because they take away computer privileges etc. The scarest reason is that some parents just don't care. So kids grow up knowing that they can push the limits-or not really having any limits. Maybe if the parents are held responsible for what the kids do, maybe they will teach their kids that they too have to be responsible.


(Man, I do love this spell check.  ;D)


Cat

I am 15 and yes, even I am amazed at the way  my classmates act.  But, I hardly ever cussed (I do play a pretty crappy golf game, though, if that tells you anything), I never smoked, did drugs, etc. and don't plan on it either.  I do talk back to my parents sometimes but never in public, and never to other adults--that's just bad behavior.

I'm exactly the same except I don't play a crappy golf game.  ;D

I do agree that discipline is a problem. But a lot of that comes from empty threats. "If you don't stop that, you are going to be sorry." "I told you to stop it." "I will give you 5 minutes to stop it." etc. etc. Instead of just threatening kids with time-outs, no t.v. or whatever, parents need to follow-through. Kids really have to learn that there are consequences to their actions. But parents don't do that because of a lot of reasons, like laziness, they don't want their kids to hate them because they take away computer privileges etc. The scarest reason is that some parents just don't care. So kids grow up knowing that they can push the limits-or not really having any limits. Maybe if the parents are held responsible for what the kids do, maybe they will teach their kids that they too have to be responsible.


You are very right, Catwoman. Knowing the repercussions to actions is what it's about. I am fortunate that my girlfriend's son isn't too much of a problem but I am never scared of putting him in line even though he's not mine. I am not sadistic I just cut through all the types of stupidity you suggested. I have only banned him from the computer once out of the year and a bit I have lived with them but it's neccessary to be consistent. Sometimes I get a little hypocritical when I am not thinking (doesn't anyone?) and I hear it from the girlfriend then.  ;D

I don't think he ever dried the pots and stuff up before I came along, though he never saw a DVD player or an X-Box before I came along either so it all balances itself out.  :)

I agree with Cat and that parents need to be consistent and they need to back each other up.  A few weeks back my husband and I were in line at Best Buy and there was a couple with a boy about 8 on line ahead of us.  The boy started really punching the crap out of his mothers' leg and then pushed her to the point that she nearly fell over (he was bored).  This is after he had been told repeatedly to stop.  Well, the father took the kid aside and whacked him on the but. The kid started crying and ran over to his mother who immediately started comforting the boy and got in the father's face for disciplining him.  What is that teaching the child?  That's it's ok to punch and push mommy?  Wait until the kid is about 15 and puts her in the hospital, let's see if she comforts and coddles him then.

I'm not a fan of corporal punishment.  I suppose it can be effective in a stable family structure.  Unfortunately, family structures are rarely stable these days.  Part of the problem is the high divorce rate.  Another part of the problem is parents who never bothered to get married at all.  Sometimes they never even lived together.  It's a rare family these days that even sits down together for dinner.

I keep hearing people say that kids today behave worse than ever.  They are spoiled, rude, violent, crude, and hyper-sexualized, so folks tell me.  I spend any time with kids.  All I know is what I hear and what I can observe in publics.

I've been remembering lately how horrified I was in junior high by the ill-mannered and disrespectful behavior of my peers.  I can't imagine how kids could behave any worse today than they did over twenty years ago.

One thing, many of the children, pre-teens, and early teens today are the children of my generation.  Our parents, the WWII-born, and baby-boom born parents, were the spoiled children of the 1960s.  My generation had rampant divorce and ME-ism as a role model.  It's no wonder a lot of them don't even care to get married when they bring children of their own into the world.  An ex-girlfriend of mine had a child out of wedlock (not mine!).  I asked her if she was going to marry the baby's father.  She said, "marriage is just a piece of paper and a piece of jewelry."  I knew from our past together that she wasn't very bright, but that one just floored me.

I'm not a fan of corporal punishment.  I suppose it can be effective in a stable family structure. 

It depends on how you apply it I think, Maxwell. I would never physical hit my girlfriend's son because he is not mine. If there is to be any smacking involved, my girlfriend would do it. I put him in line by getting him to play an active role in the household chores and, if he gets too out of order, I will stop him from certain privelledges. He's not turned into a psycho just yet and my girlfriend thinks I'm doing alright so I'm happy.  :)

Re: Some of today's kids are RUDE...Why don't the PARENTS care?

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a clear-cut answer as to why a great percentage of parents have no cares as to how they raise their children.

I do believe poor parenting is becoming more of a tremendous problem in today's age. Most issues with rude kids, problematic teens and troubled adults are, in great part, a consequence of poor parenting.

I firmly believe better parenting would prove to be a great first step in resolving some of societies greatest problems in respect to rude kids, problematic teens and troubled adults.

Perhaps parenting classes should be given in high school (in every grade) and made to be as important to succeed as learning reading, writing and mathematics. Afterall, parenting is a major life skill of great importance. Especially if we as a society want to develop the well mannered, good, intelligent and productive people of the future.

It is true some people should never have children. Unfortunately, some people still have them. As a society, let's operate under the assumption that all people will eventually have children and let's teach them all the best way possible to be decent adults and parents themselves.

I say teach Good Parenting as a major subject all 4 years of high school.

A Good Parenting class should involve parental preparation for all of a child's life stages, the teaching and practicing of good values, the best methods of successful communication and discipline.

I also think Health classes should be made to have special chapters on how to deal with emotions, stress and anger management as a good reinforcement.

Perhaps parenting classes should be given in high school (in every grade) and made to be as important to succeed as learning reading, writing and mathematics. Afterall, parenting is a major life skill of great importance. Especially if we as a society want to develop the well mannered, good, intelligent and productive people of the future.


I agree. I think the 'life skills' aspect of schooling could be invaluable. Not only about parenting but also to do with looking for a place to live, finding a job, etc.

Perhaps parenting classes should be given in high school (in every grade) and made to be as important to succeed as learning reading, writing and mathematics. Afterall, parenting is a major life skill of great importance. Especially if we as a society want to develop the well mannered, good, intelligent and productive people of the future.





A friend of mine always says he remembers how scared he was when he took his first child home from hospital.  He has a licence which says he can competently drive a car, a degree which qualifies him for his job, even a cycling proficinecy certificate!  But no one tested him or his wife in any way to see if they were competent to bring up children.

I agree with most of what you say, Philbo but Corporal punishment will do good if parents are not given the option to sue these teachers. Why didn't parents sue teachers 30 or 40 years ago when teachers were caning kids and now all of a sudden they are doing it now?


Simply because it wasn't an option, Bobby...

A couple of deciding factors took place in the 80's - the end of corporal punishment in the early half of that decade (ours banned it in '83, the year I left - typical...!)...

...and more importantly, The Children's Act of 1989 which was rushed through Parliament before anyone could blink...without going too in-depth, it basically stated that children have rights, and if those rights are abused, then you'll answer to the law...

And just like its near-relative, The Human Rights Act (also rushed), it is clearly open to misinterpretation and abuse...blame the 'compensation culture' (and a shedload of money-hungry lawyers) for that!

If ever I got punished at school, I knew that when my parents would eventually find out what I'd been up to, the punishment would be several times worse...! There's deterrent for you...!

My hat goes off to all those involved with children...I'd be too scared to breathe in front of one...!!

After we had child no. 4, things were getting a little stressful and we decided to do a parenting course.  Only problem was person facilitating the course was a 25 year old clinical psychologist who had no idea what it was like to have 1 child, let alone 4.  All up it was a huge waste of time and money.  I now get most of my advice from an older friend who has 7 children (one with a asberger's syndrome).  She's a great support for me and has raised 7 great kids.  My advice would be to find yourself a good role model.


It also annoys me that some parent's think that their child's rudeness is a sign of maturity  ::)  You'll often hear them say "I've taught them to speak up for themselves and not to take crap from anyone!".  I know parents that have changed schools 3 or 4 times because their rude child's teacher "just didn't understand them" - when will they realise that their kid is the common denominator!!  How are these kids ever going to fit into the world if they're taught that it's always the other person's fault?


I teach my kids to be respectful, even if they don't like the person.  I tell them it's learning how to play the game of life.  I've worked with people I wouldn't have spat on if they were on fire but they would never have been aware of that.  I never let them walk over me and I chose never to socialise with them afterhours (unless it was work related) and it made for a much happier workplace.

Sorry about the rant  :-[

I agree to an extent. I'm a Dad of a 9 year old boy. We live in Philly and he goes to Catholic school. If you live in Philly you would understand why he doesn't go to plublic school.  Although his Mother and I are not together, he gets all the LOVE and DISCIPLINE in the world. We actually have conversations together. I ask about his day, what was for lunch, homework? He is a very smart boy with very good grades. Me and his Mother were just talking today about how blessed we are to have such a wonderful boy. He is that way because we love him and we teach him what is right and wrong. We are not perfect by any means, but you don't have to be. Just love them and it will pay off. That is all they want.  I see kids riding there bikes in the street. Kids younger then mine. They don't get out of the way when a car comes at them. Alot of kids a very disrespectful and it's because of the parents. Parents either just want to be friends with their kids or just have nothing to do with them. It's sickening.

Tim
RATT-n-ROLL 

My ex and I paid attention to our boys and I'm happy to say that they turned out just fine.  Of course, I give credit to MY parents for the way they raised me :) My ex-wifes parents passed when she was very young....
I made sure that whenever something was shown on the tube, that demeaned parents....like that stupid Apple-Jacks commercial...plus a ton of other bad stuff....I discussed it with them and they realized just how stupid some of the things on television could really be.
There was an incident here just last week where a 12 year old girl had been invited to a birthday party....at the party a boy kissed her on the cheek, on a dare.  His girlfriend took offense to this. Then, when her mother told her to whoop that B*itch, the girl and her friends beat the crap out of the 12 year old girl....she is in a coma in a local hospital while the girls AND the idiot mother are in jail awaiting trial.



That is a friggin shame. I pray that girl gets better and that the parent and kids get what they deserve.



Tim
RATT-n- ROLL

The problem lies in dicipline.  The youth of today don't have fear of thier parents because parents are starting to fear the children.  This may make me sound brutal, and I am probably going to catch a lot of flak for this, but corporal punishment at home.  It's way to much of a mine field for it to be at school, but parents should smack thier kids if they misbehave.  Nothing major, smack'em upside the head if they say or do something wrong, but tell them why afterwards, use the belt on the bum only for horrible offences.  Kids may be getting smarter, but are still stupid.  Sharp pain gets associated with what ever they did wrong, and they won't want to do it before to long.  Kids don't like to reason, more often than not they won't reason.  This method is more than 4000 years tested and proven.  Alternate methods rarely yield success, but this one works wonders.  Remember strick dicipline = strict adhearance, lax dickipline = lax adhearance.  Your not the kids friend, your the parent


I couldn't agree more. I was disciplined alot and I mean alot and so were my brothers. And you know what? We DESERVED every bit of it. My brothers will say the same thing.

Tim
RATT-n-ROLL

That is a friggin shame. I pray that girl gets better and that the parent and kids get what they deserve.



Tim
RATT-n- ROLL
Well, since our local paper kinda sucks at follwing things up, I wonder if I'll ever know....if I'm able to I'lll keep you updated, Tbullsr

I am 15 and yes, even I am amazed at the way  my classmates act.  But, I hardly ever cussed (I do play a pretty crappy golf game, though, if that tells you anything), I never smoked, did drugs, etc. and don't plan on it either.  I do talk back to my parents sometimes but never in public, and never to other adults--that's just bad behavior.


Good for you! I don't know you but i'm proud of you. We all talked back to our parents, even the best kids.

Tim
RATT-n-ROLL

Well, since our local paper kinda sucks at follwing things up, I wonder if I'll ever know....if I'm able to I'lll keep you updated, Tbullsr


Thanks, I appreciate that.

Tim
RATT-n-ROLL

A friend of mine always says he remembers how scared he was when he took his first child home from hospital.  He has a licence which says he can competently drive a car, a degree which qualifies him for his job, even a cycling proficinecy certificate!  But no one tested him or his wife in any way to see if they were competent to bring up children.


That's very true.  Isn't it wild how adults who want to adopt a child are scrutined so closely to see if they would be fit parents, yet anyone who can have a child naturally, it is just assumed will be a good parent by society.

There was an incident here just last week where a 12 year old girl had been invited to a birthday party....at the party a boy kissed her on the cheek, on a dare.  His girlfriend took offense to this. Then, when her mother told her to whoop that B*itch, the girl and her friends beat the crap out of the 12 year old girl....she is in a coma in a local hospital while the girls AND the idiot mother are in jail awaiting trial.


How bloody sick. I hope they get what's coming to them for such reckless irresponsibility.  >:(

Simply because it wasn't an option, Bobby...

A couple of deciding factors took place in the 80's - the end of corporal punishment in the early half of that decade (ours banned it in '83, the year I left - typical...!)...

...and more importantly, The Children's Act of 1989 which was rushed through Parliament before anyone could blink...without going too in-depth, it basically stated that children have rights, and if those rights are abused, then you'll answer to the law...

And just like its near-relative, The Human Rights Act (also rushed), it is clearly open to misinterpretation and abuse...blame the 'compensation culture' (and a shedload of money-hungry lawyers) for that!

If ever I got punished at school, I knew that when my parents would eventually find out what I'd been up to, the punishment would be several times worse...! There's deterrent for you...!

My hat goes off to all those involved with children...I'd be too scared to breathe in front of one...!!


1983 . . . Ah! That figures. I got smacked by the headmistress around that time - call it bad timing if you will.  ;D

My girlfriend works as a teaching assistant, working with ill-treated, disadvantaged children. The horror stories I hear really grip me. Most of it stems from irresponsible (and often extremely negligent) parents. She does a great job.

Rocknrollfan wrote:
There was an incident here just last week where a 12 year old girl had been invited to a birthday party....at the party a boy kissed her on the cheek, on a dare.  His girlfriend took offense to this. Then, when her mother told her to whoop that B*itch, the girl and her friends beat the crap out of the 12 year old girl....she is in a coma in a local hospital while the girls AND the idiot mother are in jail awaiting trial.
Then you get mothers like this one:

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/04093/295110.stm

Sign o' the tims:

HOT VEGAS SHOWGIRLS

Just like the ones mother used to make!

:D

How bloody sick. I hope they get what's coming to them for such reckless irresponsibility.  >:(
I couldn't agree more, Bobby >:(

If ever I got punished at school, I knew that when my parents would eventually find out what I'd been up to, the punishment would be several times worse...! There's deterrent for you...!


Whenever I did something really bad, my mom would always say, "Wait until your father gets home!"  I knew then that I was in for a serious punishment.  It definitely made me think twice about doing that sort of thing again!

:DThat mom in Pennsylvania who stripped for her kid and his pals needs her head examined! WHAT THE H*LL WAS SHE THINKING!?! :D

>:(What really gets me is that PARENTS don't teach their kids to respect ALL people. Even those who society calls "different"i.e. the mentally ill,homeless,and disabled people DESERVE respect, not scorn!I get teased about my weight,by kids,while the parents stand there and say nothing. Then I'm the 'bad guy' for telling the kid NOT to tease me! :-\\

i agree that many parents don't care, but i also think that sometimes, part of the problem comes from the parents caring TOO much and sheltering their kids from everything in the world.  i didn't know what a curse word was until i was in fourth grade (as a result, i curse like a sailor).  my parents never talked to me about sex, i just had a vague idea and eventually figured it out (not by experience)...i can say that i am never disrespectful to teachers or adults who are not my parents, but i will admit that i talk back to my parents.

>:(What really gets me is that PARENTS don't teach their kids to respect ALL people. Even those who society calls "different"i.e. the mentally ill,homeless,and disabled people DESERVE respect, not scorn!I get teased about my weight,by kids,while the parents stand there and say nothing. Then I'm the 'bad guy' for telling the kid NOT to tease me! :-\\

it's not just the parents who are like that, you'd be surprised at how many parents and teachers actually join in on the gifted jokes... >:(

>:(What really gets me is that PARENTS don't teach their kids to respect ALL people. Even those who society calls "different"i.e. the mentally ill,homeless,and disabled people DESERVE respect, not scorn!I get teased about my weight,by kids,while the parents stand there and say nothing. Then I'm the 'bad guy' for telling the kid NOT to tease me! :-\\
First off I do see at work sometimes parents bring their kids in. It seems like parents discipline them to me. It really depends on the particular parents. However getting back to responding to this post one time when I was young I made a comment about some person's race(it was a bad comment too) and my Mom pulled me over and told me don't you ever say that again.

I've been remembering lately how horrified I was in junior high by the ill-mannered and disrespectful behavior of my peers.  I can't imagine how kids could behave any worse today than they did over twenty years ago.

One thing, many of the children, pre-teens, and early teens today are the children of my generation.  Our parents, the WWII-born, and baby-boom born parents, were the spoiled children of the 1960s.  My generation had rampant divorce and ME-ism as a role model.  It's no wonder a lot of them don't even care to get married when they bring children of their own into the world.  An ex-girlfriend of mine had a child out of wedlock (not mine!).  I asked her if she was going to marry the baby's father.  She said, "marriage is just a piece of paper and a piece of jewelry."  I knew from our past together that she wasn't very bright, but that one just floored me.


Ditto, although I'd modify that that to "over thirty years ago." 
I thnik adults today are just as bad.  Twenty years ago you could take you family to most sporting events - I wouldn't take a child to any today, except maybe a baseball game.  The crowds at the games are rude, crude, loud and vicious.  'Road rage' was practically unknown in 1980, today it's an (almost) accepted fact of life.  So much for the adults.  The one glaring difference I've noticed in youth behavior - when I see them in public places like the mall and such - is how loud they are, and the increased and shocking use of the "n' word. 

Ditto, although I'd modify that that to "over thirty years ago." 
I thnik adults today are just as bad.  Twenty years ago you could take you family to most sporting events - I wouldn't take a child to any today, except maybe a baseball game.  The crowds at the games are rude, crude, loud and vicious.  'Road rage' was practically unknown in 1980, today it's an (almost) accepted fact of life.  So much for the adults.  The one glaring difference I've noticed in youth behavior - when I see them in public places like the mall and such - is how loud they are, and the increased and shocking use of the "n' word. 

TV's recollection of a racial slur, reminded me of the time in kinnygarten when I had just learned the 'n' word.  My friend taught it to me, and we had a riotous time calling his younger brother a "little n-----. " We were all white, as were 99.9% of the people in my town.  We didn't know how offensive it was, we just thougt it was naughty, like the 'f' word.  Later, my father heard me use the word, he pulled me aside and said "No, we NEVER call people that, and we NEVER use that word."  He wasn't violent or threatening, but I'll never forget the way he castigated me for as long as I live!  I too am always repulsed by the casual 'n' word.
I concur about the vicious behavior at pro sports games, but it is unfortunately not limited to the big leagues.  Little league and school sports are in crisis because of the savage behavior of PARENTS attending their kids' games.  Parents screaming at coaches, parents screaming at refs, parents heckling the players, parents attacking game officials and other parents, parents attacking kids...
In my childhood the adults always used cornball cliches such as "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game," and "a winner never cheats, and a cheater never wins."  In retrospect, those old chestnuts seem like golden nuggets.  The keyword was "sportsmanship."  They taught us it was important to try as hard as you can, but to lose graciously. 
The culture shifted in '80s.  The popular culture started celibrating a brutal Wall Street attitude of "winner take all" and "social darwinism."  The phrase "winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing" got popular. 
Today the problem is only magnified by our increasingly polarized society and the yawning gap between the haves and have nots.  People feel threatened, insecure, and ready to fight.
Some people on this board chided me for dumping on Donald Trump, but I still maintain there is a connection between the glorification of the Trump archetype and the deteriorating civility we witness in daily life.

In my childhood the adults always used cornball cliches such as "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game," and "a winner never cheats, and a cheater never wins."  In retrospect, those old chestnuts seem like golden nuggets.  The keyword was "sportsmanship."  They taught us it was important to try as hard as you can, but to lose graciously. 



Do we even HAVE sports heroes any more?  My early youth was chock full of them.  I don't know if you folks on the other side of the pond have heard of him, but Mickey Mantle was an insanely popular hero in the '60s.  He was polite, loyal and honored his parents. Kids idealized him and the press fed him to us in white-washed glory.
Much later we learned that he was a womanizing alcoholic whose dissolute ways led to an early retirement.  I don't think atheletes today are as protected, and I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.  It's hard for a kid to accept his hero warts-and-all without developing warts of his own. 

Do we even HAVE sports heroes any more? 

Well, Michael Owen and David Beckham spring to mind - must admit, compared to (say) the whole Leeds team, those two are pretty wholesome role models

Well, Michael Owen and David Beckham spring to mind - must admit, compared to (say) the whole Leeds team, those two are pretty wholesome role models


Yeah I guess so. They seem pretty clean cut. Especially when you make the comparison with the Leeds lot - and I think Leicester as well.

Yeah I guess so. They seem pretty clean cut. Especially when you make the comparison with the Leeds lot - and I think Leicester as well.
while NASCAR has it's bad boys(Kurt Busch nowadays! :P),the sport DEFINITELY has role models......Bobby Labonte and older brother Terry,Kyle Petty,Mark Martin..and like him or not,Jeff Gordon.You never hear of #24 doing any bad behavior on the track.

while NASCAR has it's bad boys(Kurt Busch nowadays! :P),the sport DEFINITELY has role models......Bobby Labonte and older brother Terry,Kyle Petty,Mark Martin..and like him or not,Jeff Gordon.You never hear of #24 doing any bad behavior on the track.
Tony Stewart may be a little naughty sometimes,but he's a pretty decent guy. He is really good to his hardcore fans,who have supported him throughout his career. Most people think of "Smoke" as a relative 'newbie' to racing-they don't realize he raced for USAC and the IRL(Indy Racing League)before coming to NASCAR full-time!He also donates his money and his TIME to worthwhile causes like helping sick kids and injured racers.

Do we even HAVE sports heroes any more?  My early youth was chock full of them.  I don't know if you folks on the other side of the pond have heard of him, but Mickey Mantle was an insanely popular hero in the '60s.  He was polite, loyal and honored his parents. Kids idealized him and the press fed him to us in white-washed glory.
Much later we learned that he was a womanizing alcoholic whose dissolute ways led to an early retirement.  I don't think atheletes today are as protected, and I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.  It's hard for a kid to accept his hero warts-and-all without developing warts of his own.   

Robert Klein has a routine about this on his "Child of the '50s" album.  IIRC, "We went to Macy's to meet two Yankees heroes.  They were late, we were there three hours.  It came as a big surprise when my heroes arrived DRUNK.  I ran up and asked "Hey, by how many games do you think you'll win the series?,'  he went,'BEELLLCH!!'  Then he began to wink, which is a good way to patronize children. 'Hey, young fella, you Yankee Junya, huh?, you Yankee Junya, young fella!,'  I thought, 'Yankee, Jr.?, I'm a young fella,  I-I-I'm nine years old, I might go the wrong road now...just by seeing you here intoxicated!'"
Sorry, I just HAD to recite that  since you mentioned Mickey Mantle!

Today the media is a 24-hour scandal-mongering machine and it must be FED CONSTANTLY.  In the old days, a lot of things public figures, including athletes, did was out of sight, off the record, and off limits.  Now for better AND for worse, public figures have no wall of privacy.  That's part of it.
However, I think there's more than a scandal-hungery papparazzi problem.  There really does seem to be less honor and less civility among public figures.  There is also a lot more opportunity for public figures to get in trouble because people get to behave more freely nowadays.

Look at Kobe Bryant. We shrug at the allegation that he cheats on his spouse.  "So? Everybody does that."  In times past, the accusation alone would have been scndalous enough to curtail his career (IF it got out, which it might not have).  Furthermore, in Mickey Mantle's time, the idea of a 19-year old girl* visiting an athlete's hotel room unchaperoned would have been OUT OF THE QUESTION.

On the other hand, you could argue that young women DID go to athlete's hotel rooms and get raped back in the day, but they were too ashamed to say anything about it.

So, who's to say?

*Yes, in the old days, unmarried women of all ages were referred to as "girls."  Sad but true.

while NASCAR has it's bad boys(Kurt Busch nowadays! :P),the sport DEFINITELY has role models......Bobby Labonte and older brother Terry,Kyle Petty,Mark Martin..and like him or not,Jeff Gordon.You never hear of #24 doing any bad behavior on the track.


I think you need a bit of both. Without the bad boys, it is more difficult to distinguish who the role models are.

Today I was at the Atlantic City(NJ)Bus Terminal,and I saw a man who was sleeping fall off a bench and hit the floor quite hard. You think anyone helped the man up or asked him if he was okay...NOPE!! Everyone except me obviously was wrapped up in their own business,too wrapped up to care even if the man was hurt. I went to the ticket window and asked for help for the poor fellow,and the booth attendant called security,who helped the man up and made sure he was okay. I guess people have forgotten how to be a Good Samaritan,or they are too hard and cold to care.Your thoughts? Did I do the right thing?

Unfortunately I think to many people are scared to do something in this sort of situation.  They worry that the guy might be drunk, and become violent, or perhaps he's seriously injured and they wouldn't be able to deal with that.  So they figure it's easier just to ignore things because "Someone else will see if he's alright" (or whatever).

I think you did the right thing Tony20 because you got him some help.

Absolutely Tony. A man that falls off a bench quite hard is unlikely to be in any fit state to want to pick a fight with you. I wish there were more people like you who take the initiative - good on you.  :)

I know that people think that its wrong to spank their children but if we dont teach our kids dicipline, someone else will and it could be a prison guard.  Our society is going to rot if we dont make sure that the next generation is able to uphold it and they never will if they dont learn respect.  When I have 5 year olds cuss at me...thats a problem. 

I know that people think that its wrong to spank their children but if we dont teach our kids dicipline, someone else will and it could be a prison guard.  Our society is going to rot if we dont make sure that the next generation is able to uphold it and they never will if they dont learn respect.  When I have 5 year olds cuss at me...thats a problem. 


I agree. Rather it be me or a teacher discipling my child than a prison warden.

Unfortunately I think to many people are scared to do something in this sort of situation.  They worry that the guy might be drunk, and become violent, or perhaps he's seriously injured and they wouldn't be able to deal with that.  So they figure it's easier just to ignore things because "Someone else will see if he's alright" (or whatever).

I think you did the right thing Tony20 because you got him some help.

Sometimes the man who seems like harmless old drunk might be a violent schizophrenic.  You never know who you're dealing with out there at the train station.  I'm a compassionate liberal, but I'm not nuts!

Sometimes the man who seems like harmless old drunk might be a violent schizophrenic.  You never know who you're dealing with out there at the train station.  I'm a compassionate liberal, but I'm not nuts!
Excuse me,you are mistaken if you think most people with schizophrenia are violent. That's just not true. My roommate has schizophrenia,and he is NOT violent,and never has been from the time he was diagnosed in 1979. He's only been hospitalized once,to get him on meds safely. Myself,I have schizoaffective disorder,controlled by meds and therapy. MOST people with mental illnesses are VICTIMS of violent crime,not perpetrators of it.

Whenever I did something really bad, my mom would always say, "Wait until your father gets home!"  I knew then that I was in for a serious punishment.  It definitely made me think twice about doing that sort of thing again!


That is not so great because that this can detrermine which parent is more powerful. Making a gender more empowered within most situations is not a good influence for the child.  This is bad because children can start developing sides with their guardians, or even start to make gender stereotypes.

 

Re: Some of today's kids are RUDE...Why don't the PARENTS care?

Perhaps parenting classes should be given in high school (in every grade) and made to be as important to succeed as learning reading, writing and mathematics. Afterall, parenting is a major life skill of great importance. Especially if we as a society want to develop the well mannered, good, intelligent and productive people of the future.



This type of education system should not be a norm for our society or considered neccessary.  Not everyone will choose to have children, why learn about parenting. Let alone any test.  There is no test that can answer the plights of parenting.  Every child is a different case.  Simply put, there should be more thought in why children are brought into a society.

Hopefully, having a child is not because of increased security for either job dependance or security against others intruding on the family (affairs or such). 

Parents let their kids get away with teasing differently-abled people sometimes,and then laugh when the person gets angry and reacts! Parents passing their bigoted attitude to their CHILDREN is inexcuseable! No wonder some kids are unwilling to accept or be friends with a kid that is 'weird' in their eyes! I can imagine how a kid who is in a wheelchair or has cerebral palsy or Down's syndrome feels when kids their age as well as adults make them feel unwelcome!

And sometimes the TEACHERS even make fun of differently-abled kids. When one of my teachers had heart problems and had to leave school, she was replaced with one of the NASTIEST people in the whole world. She made fun of everyone in our class with Individualized Education Plans, which included me and a friend. When she called me "babied for 15 years of my life" because I ran to the bathroom to throw up without asking for a pass, I finally told the principal about her. Everyone now says I should have puked on her for being so nasty to me, but I was too polite (and too scared of what she would do to me!).

And sometimes the TEACHERS even make fun of differently-abled kids. When one of my teachers had heart problems and had to leave school, she was replaced with one of the NASTIEST people in the whole world. She made fun of everyone in our class with Individualized Education Plans, which included me and a friend. When she called me "babied for 15 years of my life" because I ran to the bathroom to throw up without asking for a pass, I finally told the principal about her. Everyone now says I should have puked on her for being so nasty to me, but I was too polite (and too scared of what she would do to me!).

I'm sorry to hear schools are still hiring total jerks.  It reminds me of the basketball coach who gave the kid the "crybaby" award.  Some sadistical people justify their nastyness as "tough love."  Yeah, if I just shame you enough, you'll "snap out of it."  That's still an acceptable attitude among some people in our culture.
I had what you'd now call an "Individualized Education Plan."  In my day the condescending phrase was "special needs."  I couldn't do math.  And thanks to the finest resources my public school could muster, I still can't.
I think there are things teachers wouldn't be able to get away with today that they did when I was in high school in the '80s.  Some of my teachers made racist and lewd remarks to students with impunity.  The one a-hole, Mr. Towle, said to a black student who was drumming on the table in study hall, "Hey, Damel, we're not in your homeland, you know."  He was the same one who was openly discussing with some jocks his wishes to sleep with a certain 17-year old female senior. 
I didn't write a letter of complaint to the administration about this creep.  I guess I figured if they were incompetent enough to keep him on, they were incapable of figuring out how to get rid of him!

Some parents are too busy making a bunch of money and are too busy to spend time with thier kids.... >:(

Some parents are too busy making a bunch of money and are too busy to spend time with thier kids.... >:(


Are you saying that one parent should give up work if they have a family?  Or just that they should work more child-friendly hours?

If it's the first point that I would have to disagree with you.  If it's the second then you have my support in that.

Excuse me,you are mistaken if you think most people with schizophrenia are violent. That's just not true. My roommate has schizophrenia,and he is NOT violent,and never has been from the time he was diagnosed in 1979. He's only been hospitalized once,to get him on meds safely. Myself,I have schizoaffective disorder,controlled by meds and therapy. MOST people with mental illnesses are VICTIMS of violent crime,not perpetrators of it.


To follow on from Tony's point: Scizophrenia (meaning 'fragmented mind') does not have to involve violence. The violence is often a symptom of the paranoid delusions schizophrenics feel. If you felt that you were being watched or that your life is in danger (rightly or wrongly) you protect yourself and that is often what a scizophrenic does.

Most scizophrenics are more likely to harm themselves than other people.

Just to add: Tony. What is the difference between scizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder?

Excuse me,you are mistaken if you think most people with schizophrenia are violent. That's just not true. My roommate has schizophrenia,and he is NOT violent,and never has been from the time he was diagnosed in 1979. He's only been hospitalized once,to get him on meds safely. Myself,I have schizoaffective disorder,controlled by meds and therapy. MOST people with mental illnesses are VICTIMS of violent crime,not perpetrators of it.

I do apologise if I gave the impression that I thought schizophrenics are typically violent.  I know more about schizophrenia than most people, and I know perfectly well that most are quite passive.  In fact, not long ago I made the same point to a friend of mine, schizophrenics are more likely to get done to, than to do to others.
The popular culture has given people a stereotype of a drooling psychopath, which mental health advocates are still trying to reverse. 
I also have great empathy for people who struggle with mental illness, as I have struggled with major depression all my life.
Violent people you might meet on the street usually have different psychiatric pathologies than schizophrenia.  Alcoholism is very common among homeless men.  In advanced stages, alchoholism can deteriorate the brain to the point of bringing on irrational and socially abhorrent behavior.
One caveat, there is a small percentage among the population of schizophrenia sufferers that does present violent tendencies.  These are usually paranoid-type schizophrenics.  While we want to eschew negative stereotypes, we would be remiss to deny the danger of the violent few.
Furthermore, the deinstitutionalization movement has failed to hold up its end of the bargain.  They shut down all large mental hospitals, many of which were ghastly.  However, they did not provide the comprehensive community mental health networks promised at the other end of the deal.
Many schizophrenics do end up in homeless or leading transient lives.  Some self-medicate with street drugs and alcohol.  Lack of external structure in conjunction with drug abuse can exacerbate the antisocial tendencies of schizophrenia.
While it is UNLIKELY the homeless man passed out on the bench is both schizophrenic and violent, you never know.  He might be.

To follow on from Tony's point: Scizophrenia (meaning 'fragmented mind') does not have to involve violence. The violence is often a symptom of the paranoid delusions schizophrenics feel. If you felt that you were being watched or that your life is in danger (rightly or wrongly) you protect yourself and that is often what a scizophrenic does.

Most scizophrenics are more likely to harm themselves than other people.

Just to add: Tony. What is the difference between scizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder?
it's like having hallucinations and paranoid thoughts and having a little of Bi-polar disorder to go along with it! That's the only way I can describe it! My hallucinations and paranoia are controlled by a drug called Seroquel and for the other symptoms I take PROZAC.

I do apologise if I gave the impression that I thought schizophrenics are typically violent.  I know more about schizophrenia than most people, and I know perfectly well that most are quite passive.  In fact, not long ago I made the same point to a friend of mine, schizophrenics are more likely to get done to, than to do to others.
The popular culture has given people a stereotype of a drooling psychopath, which mental health advocates are still trying to reverse. 
I also have great empathy for people who struggle with mental illness, as I have struggled with major depression all my life.
Violent people you might meet on the street usually have different psychiatric pathologies than schizophrenia.  Alcoholism is very common among homeless men.  In advanced stages, alchoholism can deteriorate the brain to the point of bringing on irrational and socially abhorrent behavior.
One caveat, there is a small percentage among the population of schizophrenia sufferers that does present violent tendencies.  These are usually paranoid-type schizophrenics.  While we want to eschew negative stereotypes, we would be remiss to deny the danger of the violent few.
Furthermore, the deinstitutionalization movement has failed to hold up its end of the bargain.  They shut down all large mental hospitals, many of which were ghastly.  However, they did not provide the comprehensive community mental health networks promised at the other end of the deal.
Many schizophrenics do end up in homeless or leading transient lives.  Some self-medicate with street drugs and alcohol.  Lack of external structure in conjunction with drug abuse can exacerbate the antisocial tendencies of schizophrenia.
While it is UNLIKELY the homeless man passed out on the bench is both schizophrenic and violent, you never know.  He might be.
As far as State psychiatric hospitals go,little or no actual THERAPY goes on there,they just medicate the patients until they are "stable" and "not a danger to self" They do not help the patient get ready to reenter society! Some people go in and out of those places (revolving-door syndrome)because they cannot manage outside the hospital without help and supervision-lots of it at first. My hospitalizations have MOSTLY been in COMMUNITY hospitals (the nearest hospital to me has a private psychiatric wing with CARING people working there!)but I did two stays at a State psychiatric hospital (Ancora in NJ)one was when I was 13 in 1973 and one in 1992. Those State places are more like mental health JAILS with the way patients get substandard care!

it's like having hallucinations and paranoid thoughts and having a little of Bi-polar disorder to go along with it! That's the only way I can describe it! My hallucinations and paranoia are controlled by a drug called Seroquel and for the other symptoms I take PROZAC.


Oh dear. You are brave. Mental illness is difficult to bear . . . I only had chronic depression and dread to think about having hallucinations as well.

As far as State psychiatric hospitals go,little or no actual THERAPY goes on there,they just medicate the patients until they are "stable" and "not a danger to self" They do not help the patient get ready to reenter society! Some people go in and out of those places (revolving-door syndrome)because they cannot manage outside the hospital without help and supervision-lots of it at first. My hospitalizations have MOSTLY been in COMMUNITY hospitals (the nearest hospital to me has a private psychiatric wing with CARING people working there!)but I did two stays at a State psychiatric hospital (Ancora in NJ)one was when I was 13 in 1973 and one in 1992. Those State places are more like mental health JAILS with the way patients get substandard care!



I take meds too.  If it wasn't for advanced psychotrophic medications, I probably would have spent much time in hospitals.  I think the psychiatric profession spends too much time pampering the worried well, and too little time trying to find prevention and cure for diseases such as schizophrenia.
Back in the early '70s the State hospitals were still in full swing.  They reached their maximum populations in the early '50s, just prior to the introduction of Thorazine in 1955.  I have read a great deal about some of the more notorious State hospitals (Danvers State, here in Mass., Pilgrim State on Long Island, Philadelphia State, at Byberry, Milledgeville, Georgia, and Trenton State, NJ among others) which were sometimes called "snakepits."  I have heard of Ancora, but I don't know anything about it.

I think it's absolutely wrong that differently-abled kids are sent off to 'special services' schools. I think the school districts should be REQUIRED by LAW to build BARRIER-FREE schools to replace older schools that have stairways and narrow bathroom stalls. And they should hire TEACHERS and AIDES that are qualified to not only teach non-handicapped students but those who are challenged(physically,mentally or emotionally)as well. And hire an OCCUPATIONAL THERAPIST as well as a PHYSICAL THERAPIST to help challenged kids adapt to a FULL,REWARDING LIFE as well as a NORMAL school and social life! Also,there are some 'special' schools that have organized sports teams that compete in SPECIAL OLYMPICS and TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS events,they also have social functions such as dances and yes,even a PROM! At least those 'special' schools and their staff should be recognized for helping differently-abled kids and teens live a NEAR-NORMAL life!

Generation X is know for being self-centered, laxadasical, and ignorant. The exact opposite of Generation Y. Regardless of your impressions of certain teenagers.

Generation X is know for being self-centered, laxadasical, and ignorant. The exact opposite of Generation Y. Regardless of your impressions of certain teenagers.
I'm not saying ALL kids are rude-I live in a condo development where there are people who have kids,and the kids who see me every day,they say 'hello' and 'Good Morning' to me,and ask me about my cat(My Tika suns herself in the living room window). It's just SOME kids,raised by too-permissive parents who don't give a rat's you-know-what how their kids turn out when they become ADULTS(and repeat the 'I don't care' cycle with THEIR kids!)!

Generation X is know for being self-centered, laxadasical, and ignorant. The exact opposite of Generation Y. Regardless of your impressions of certain teenagers.


... I think the word is "lackadaisical".  ::)

Are you saying that one parent should give up work if they have a family?  Or just that they should work more child-friendly hours?

If it's the first point that I would have to disagree with you.  If it's the second then you have my support in that.


Karen, what I got out of Rock And Roll Fan's comments were that some parents put more into work and material goods than their children.  Your children should be more important than your work.

>:(I've actually heard people make rude comments about my choice of clothes(I wear NASCAR hats and T-shirts a LOT)and they have said 'Eww,she likes NASCAR!' I'm tempted to say RIGHT TO THEIR FACES...."So what! >:( I like racing,and IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I'M WEARING....DON'T LOOK!" I don't make fun of them for wearing ECKO,FUBU GEAR,SEAN JOHN,PHAT FARM,BABY PHAT,and all that other so-called 'cool' stuff! And why all the OAKLAND RAIDERS hats and stuff?

I'm sorry to hear schools are still hiring total jerks.
Yeah, me too.  Like the teacher who called me a prima Donna and said I think I'm better than everyone else--right to my face.  How's that for making someone's day miserable.

Yeah, me too.  Like the teacher who called me a prima Donna and said I think I'm better than everyone else--right to my face.  How's that for making someone's day miserable.

Oh really?  My guidance counselor once called me a Prima Donna! ;D

"When are you gonna learn to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT?"
--Coach Desmond, 8th grade

Yeah, me too.  Like the teacher who called me a prima Donna and said I think I'm better than everyone else--right to my face.  How's that for making someone's day miserable.
My foster mother never missed a chance to insult me. Calling me 'stupid' and harassing me for the music I listened to and not allowing me to dress in jeans coz she claimed they would 'break her washer' but I think she just did not like teenagers! She would accuse every kid that came into her home of STEALING money,food,and jewelry when none of us did anything! I think her paranoia was in full swing!

>:(I've actually heard people make rude comments about my choice of clothes(I wear NASCAR hats and T-shirts a LOT)and they have said 'Eww,she likes NASCAR!' I'm tempted to say RIGHT TO THEIR FACES...."So what! >:( I like racing,and IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I'M WEARING....DON'T LOOK!" I don't make fun of them for wearing ECKO,FUBU GEAR,SEAN JOHN,PHAT FARM,BABY PHAT,and all that other so-called 'cool' stuff! And why all the OAKLAND RAIDERS hats and stuff?


Maybe you should say something.  It would shut them up, if only for a minute. It's nobody else's business what you wear or what you like.  If they don't like it then they don't have to wear it.

In a way, I agree with you, but those things will cost alot of money.  I'm not sure how it is in the rest of the country, but here in IL, MOST schools are unable to cover their everyday operating costs as it is.  Also, I don't want to sound offensive or anything, but there ARE some kids who should not be in classes with others.  Even if the teachers are trained to handle differently abled kids, the fact remains that some of them require so much additional help that there is not enough time for the teachers to help all of the kids.  Hubby's aunt is a special ed therapist at a school where they've tried to completely integrate ALL of the students.  According to her, it's been a nightmare and a failure.  So much so that they're discontinuing it after this year.
The reason I said what I said is that SOME kids who are INTELLIGENT enough to learn in a normal school environment,with some assistance,are sometimes lumped in with those who cannot. And their intelligence is stunted because they are not being stimulated enough in those"special" schools. That was my situation. Because I had trouble in kindergarten with co-ordination and motor skills,I was sent off to a "special" school. Which is something I did not need,as I learned when I was given an IQ test at age 14 and found to be a BRIGHT kid. Many of the skills I learned as a child,such as reading and math,I had to learn ON MY OWN,because the teachers told me'that's too advanced for you,you'll get frustrated'! I was eventually mainstreamed into a PUBLIC high school,and after some difficulty adjusting to a 'normal' routine, I GRADUATED in 1980! Something some naysayers never thought I'd ever achieve!

I absolutely agree.

I was just wondering about it the other day. When I was a kid we were so much more naiv than today's kids. And it wasn't too long ago (I was born in 1977)! But everything was just so much more peaceful and more naiv - but in a positive way. Not just kids, adults as well.

When we were 13-year-olds we were still playing with our toys, today's 13-year-olds talk and think about sex.
You hear a lot of stories about young kids' violence against each other. Almost unimaginable in our times.

And yes, they talk rude and the whole world is much ruder. When I was going to school I could come and go alone. Today parents don't even dare to let their kids go alone to school because of violence. The whole world is just messed up and I think Philbo is right that it is scary to think about it what will these kids become when they grow up if they are already this rude. And then think about their kids and their kids' kids.... :(

I am quite pessimistic. I can sense that every generation is just worse and worse in terms of rudeness and violence....

>:(I've actually heard people make rude comments about my choice of clothes(I wear NASCAR hats and T-shirts a LOT)and they have said 'Eww,she likes NASCAR!' I'm tempted to say RIGHT TO THEIR FACES...."So what! >:( I like racing,and IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I'M WEARING....DON'T LOOK!" I don't make fun of them for wearing ECKO,FUBU GEAR,SEAN JOHN,PHAT FARM,BABY PHAT,and all that other so-called 'cool' stuff! And why all the OAKLAND RAIDERS hats and stuff?


Yayy, another motorsports loving girl - just like myself. Although my favourite is Formula One. Anyway, it's good to see you! :)

The parents don't care because they are as rude as their children! >:(

The parents don't care because they are as rude as their children! >:(
How true! I've seen that happen. There was someone on the bus who had speech problems,some ADULTS as well as their kids made fun of this person!

How true! I've seen that happen. There was someone on the bus who had speech problems,some ADULTS as well as their kids made fun of this person!

Raised on wrestling and Rush, look forward to more of this adult-child behavior in the future.

Raised on wrestling and Rush, look forward to more of this adult-child behavior in the future.
:PDon't leave out those who are being HANNITIZED! or those who bow down to the religious neo-Fascists! :-X

:PDon't leave out those who are being HANNITIZED! or those who bow down to the religious neo-Fascists! :-X

I was just remembering way back when Limbaugh made fun of Chelsea Clinton when she was twelve years old.  "There's a Whitheouse cat, but did you also know there's a Whitheouse DOG?" Holds up a picture of Chelsea.  He also targetted Labor Secretary Robert Reich for jabs.  He'd have a voice over of Reich and show an empty podium, implying you can't see him because he's so short.  Dr. Reich is 4'11," his stature was inhibited by a childhood illness.  A similar thing happened to me.  I'm 5' 5," which is not extrodarily short, but enough to set a guy at a disadvantage in a "heightist" society. 
Reich is always good humored about his height, and jokes about it himself.  He pointed out that Rush's joke was, in fact, true.  It was hard to see him over the podiums!
Dittoheads will always say, "Yeah, well Al Franken made fun of Rush's weight."  Yeah, well...that wasn't the most spiritually sound thing for Franken to do, but what goes around comes around.  Limbaugh and his ilk get off on ridiculing the most disadvantaged and vulnerable members of our society.  They can dish it out, but they can't take it, as we used to say when we wer kids.

Are you saying that one parent should give up work if they have a family?  Or just that they should work more child-friendly hours?

If it's the first point that I would have to disagree with you.  If it's the second then you have my support in that.


I'm saying that one parent should stay home and take care of the kids if they can afford it. I don't care if you agree or not. The world was a much better place when only the man worked. Plain and simple. But no, there's to many greedy and materialistic peole out there sucking the life out of society. Worried more about that big giant truck and cell phone then they are their kids.


Tim
RATT-n-ROLL 

I'm saying that one parent should stay home and take care of the kids if they can afford it. I don't care if you agree or not. The world was a much better place when only the man worked. Plain and simple. But no, there's to many greedy and materialistic peole out there sucking the life out of society. Worried more about that big giant truck and cell phone then they are their kids.


Tim
RATT-n-ROLL 

It wasn't all Leave it to Beaver back in the day.  There was always plenty of social pathology to go around.  The working Dad, stay-at-home Mom period idealized is largely a post-WWII phenomenon, and at that a privilege of the middle class suburbs.
Prior to WWII, you had your agrarian communities in which the whole family "worked.'  There were also a lot more mom & pop businesses in which the family lived adjacent to where they worked.  Again, the single-parent-working ideal doesn't apply in either of these cases.  Let's not forget the desperate underclasses in which every able bodied family member worked sixteen hour days, six days a week just to avoid starvation.
I would say the stay-at-home mom is better viewed as a privilege, and it is best not to identify privileges of affluence as requirements for a healthy family.
Of course, there are many couples who could afford to live on just the man's income if they lived in a smaller house and drove cheaper cars.  Some of the same political factions who encourage stay-at-home moms also endorse conspicuous consumption, which always puzzles me.

I don't mean to sound sexist by saying "stay-at-home mom," it's just that "mom" is the one who they usually say ought to stay home!

We probably could afford to live on just my husbands income if we lived in a smaller house and only had one older car.

But I know that I am happier in myself for going out to work.  I delayed having a family to complete my education so it seems rather daft to then stop working for several years.  I also believe my children are happy and confident children because of the social interaction they have from going to nursery.

I do not think my work dominates my life.  It is not work or a family.  I believe you can do both.

I'm saying that one parent should stay home and take care of the kids if they can afford it. I don't care if you agree or not. The world was a much better place when only the man worked. Plain and simple. But no, there's to many greedy and materialistic peole out there sucking the life out of society. Worried more about that big giant truck and cell phone then they are their kids.


Tim
RATT-n-ROLL 


Back in the day when only men worked also trapped women and kids in relationships that were abusive where the wife could not escape because she could not support herself and her kids.  Every family did not live in some kind of Ozzie and Harriet world where everything in life was good and just.  Having kids see their mom abused either mentally or physically does not set the stage for a stable life style for those kids as they grow up.  Many women stayed in bad marriages because they could not support themselves.  Although they may have looked like they were happy, things are not always as they seem.

Back in the day when only men worked also trapped women and kids in relationships that were abusive where the wife could not escape because she could not support herself and her kids.  Every family did not live in some kind of Ozzie and Harriet world where everything in life was good and just.  Having kids see their mom abused either mentally or physically does not set the stage for a stable life style for those kids as they grow up.  Many women stayed in bad marriages because they could not support themselves.  Although they may have looked like they were happy, things are not always as they seem.
Also when women DID have a job,it was usually something like a maid,secretary,hairdresser......not putting those down,but very FEW women held positions that had decent wages or advancement opportunities. And if you were a divorcee in the 1940's or 1950's....you were looked down upon by society. Another reason many women stayed in loveless,abusive relationships!

Well actually a friend of mine just published a book called "Generation Me" by Dr. Jean Twinge which actually addresses this issue. It focuses on the self-esteem movement which has been taught to kids born in the 70's, 80's, and 90's

The other day, some punk kid came up to me, and asked me if I knew the time.  When I told him I didn't know what time it is (as I have no watch), he told me to f*ck off.  I mean geez  ::)

[quote author=wһіѕ

[quote author=wһіѕ

If it was legal, I would have hauled off and punched the brat.


I wanted to punch him, but these days, if you hit someone, they sue you for all you're worth  ::)