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Subject: Cowardice in the Military
Is it just me, or for the U.S. Military to Execute a soldier for "Cowardice" that seems Waaay too harsh,
I mean do they think the soldier enjoys having "Cowardic"
Discipline YES, for soldiers that show cowardice, but the Death Penalty??
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
I believe that a soldier in combat can be shot for deserting or showing 'cowardace' in the face of the enemy yes. I could be wrong, but that used to be the way it was. That's why I feel bad for our guys in Iraq, cuz even if some of them see/saw the lies of the Bush administration, they couldn't just drop weapon and say NO. And we blame other country's for killing those who don't agree ::) .
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
Is it just me, or for the U.S. Military to Execute a soldier for "Cowardice" that seems Waaay too harsh,
I mean do they think the soldier enjoys having "Cowardic"
Discipline YES, for soldiers that show cowardice, but the Death Penalty??
End Quote
Andrew, if you found yourself in a fox-hole, under live enemy fire, counting on your buddy to defend your position, and you find out that he has DESERTED his unit, you might feel a bit differently.
In a combat situation, a soldier deserting his position is the same as (and possibly worse than) being shot by the opponent.
As for the definition of "cowardice" versus "desertion" I am not sure. Other than that "desertion" is probably the more severe offense.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Why should a person be forced to kill or support anyone if he doesn't believe in the cause?
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
Why should a person be forced to kill or support anyone if he doesn't believe in the cause?
End Quote
Why would they be there in the first place if they felt like that? Nobody made them join. And before you get your panties in a twist, I'm talking about now, not when the draft was in use. ::)
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
Why would they be there in the first place if they felt like that? Nobody made them join. And before you get your panties in a twist, I'm talking about now, not when the draft was in use. ::)
End Quote
No I getcha, and I get LyricBoy too. They join for different reasons. Some do it for college funds ::) . They don't understand the reality of the fact that if the US goes to war, they are going. Some do it because they honestly feel they are defending the citizens of the United States.
In any conflict however , no man should be made to fight a war wether enlisted or drafted if he/she doesn't believe in the cause. The US loves to grind their' enemies' into the ground with propaganda about how they kill because people don't agree with them. Well this issue in essence is the same thing.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
In any conflict however , no man should be made to fight a war wether enlisted or drafted if he/she doesn't believe in the cause. The US loves to grind their' enemies' into the ground with propaganda about how they kill because people don't agree with them. Well this issue in essence is the same thing.
End Quote
Sorry, but you don't get to pick and choose which conflicts you'll support; otherwise people would just take the benefits of being in the military and bail on the risk when they're needed. One of the reasons I never joined was that I knew I wouldn't want to go to war. It would suck to die in a pointless conflict but you really can't say these guys have no warning or choice in the matter.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Being ex-military myself... Lyric Boy made a very good point. If you're under live enemy fire...you want your fellow soldiers to have your back. Teamwork saves lives. Desertion is the LAST thing a squad needs while being attacked.
After all, we're in it together...knee deep. I believe killing another soldier for desertion can be rather harsh but I understand why they do it. Soldiers depend upon each other...why do you think the "buddy system" was invented for? Lives depend on other lives... Bottomline.
I'm sure there are a LOT of soldiers that don't want to be there in Iraq but it's their duty. Follow orders...ask questions later.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:They don't understand the reality of the fact that if the US goes to war, they are going.
End Quote
That is absolutely untrue. ::)
What do you think all the hours and hours of intense training is for? It certainly isn't for the heck of it.
Anyone who joins the military isn't just walking in blind to the fact they may have to go to war.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
Why should a person be forced to kill or support anyone if he doesn't believe in the cause?
End Quote
When you join the military you take an oath to serve. You do not take an oath to "serve when I feel like it".
Military jurisprudence DOES allow people to file as "conscientious objectors" prior to a combat deployment. And in the past few deployments, some currently-enlisted personnel did successfully file as CO's PRIOR TO DEPLOYMENT.
You are also allowed to deliberately disobey an order if it is a egregious and blatant violation of humanity. (ie, the guy at Mi Lai who stopped the massacre disobeyed orders and was not punished). Of course, if you do this frivolously you will be court-martialed.
Somebody who wants to be in the Army but then "choose his battles" is best advised to find another career.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
death penalty for nobody
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
That is absolutely untrue. ::)
What do you think all the hours and hours of intense training is for? It certainly isn't for the heck of it.
Anyone who joins the military isn't just walking in blind to the fact they may have to go to war.
End Quote
Sorry it's absolutely true in alot of cases. I just last month got done trying to make a 18 year old kid who thought he was just going to get college benefits and be able to quit realize that the US is at war and he will likely be sent . And he just kept insisting ....so whatever.
As to the rest, I don't care what letter or form you sign, if one gets faced with a war one doesn't believe in, then one should be able to walk away. it has nothing to do with 'taking advntage of the military , it has to do0 with personal choice. What you people are suggesting is that once one enters the military one no longer has choice. Wich again is no better than those we accuse.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:As to the rest, I don't care what letter or form you sign, if one gets faced with a war one doesn't believe in, then one should be able to walk away. it has nothing to do with 'taking advntage of the military , it has to do0 with personal choice. What you people are suggesting is that once one enters the military one no longer has choice. Wich again is no better than those we accuse.
End Quote
Listen to what you are saying.
If it were like that, where "one could just walk away", do you honestly believe that anyone would go into any war, whether they beleived in it or not, if they knew they could just "walk away"? That is simply ridiculous!
And yes, that would absolutely be "taking advantage of the military". It would be like working at a job you didn't really like, then telling your boss to stick it when he asks you to do something you don't want to do. All while still accepting a paycheck.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
Listen to what you are saying.
If it were like that, where "one could just walk away", do you honestly believe that anyone would go into any war, whether they beleived in it or not, if they knew they could just "walk away"? That is simply ridiculous! End Quote
If they had any honor in them they would stand and fight if they believed in it. No papers neccesary. But then the notion that there are many honorable people in the world,let alone the USA, is 'simply ridiculous'.
Quoting:And yes, that would absolutely be "taking advantage of the military". It would be like working at a job you didn't really like, then telling your boss to stick it when he asks you to do something you don't want to do. All while still accepting a paycheck.
End Quote
Ummm...dying and killing are alot different from selling cars or accounting or <insert employment here> .
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
Sorry it's absolutely true in alot of cases. I just last month got done trying to make a 18 year old kid who thought he was just going to get college benefits and be able to quit realize that the US is at war and he will likely be sent . And he just kept insisting ....so whatever.
As to the rest, I don't care what letter or form you sign, if one gets faced with a war one doesn't believe in, then one should be able to walk away. it has nothing to do with 'taking advntage of the military , it has to do0 with personal choice. What you people are suggesting is that once one enters the military one no longer has choice. Wich again is no better than those we accuse.
End Quote
We're talking about the MILITARY here, not the "missionaries". Part of being in the military is taking orders, like it or not. It's how it's always been and it's how it will always be. And, it's not just an American thing. Heck, in other countries, you can be shot for much less. No, you don't have a choice. You signed a contract, it's no different than any other contract in the world. People complain about military spending now, just imagine if people could sign up, get the benefits for college, and leave whenever they want. If you don't have the ability to follow through, you shouldn't enlist in the first place.
Subject: Re: Cowardice in the Military
Quoting:
We're talking about the MILITARY here, not the "missionaries". Part of being in the military is taking orders, like it or not. It's how it's always been and it's how it will always be. And, it's not just an American thing. Heck, in other countries, you can be shot for much less. No, you don't have a choice. You signed a contract, it's no different than any other contract in the world. People complain about military spending now, just imagine if people could sign up, get the benefits for college, and leave whenever they want. If you don't have the ability to follow through, you shouldn't enlist in the first place.
End Quote
I agree 100%.
God help us if we ever had a military where it was ok to just walk away. ::)