Quoting:
I think its really hard for us to realize that you're going to have to stop defining the car industry (or any US corparation) by countries.
There aren't any boundries anymore, you just can't judge by using the term American, Japanese or German. It's not how the industry works... Auto companies go where the cost is cheapest and the profit is the most.
If the US car companies have lost market share its to THEMSELVES, US companies OWN most of (or part of) the other makes anyway..

Realize that
GM is Chevy, Olds, Cadillac, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Saturn, Hummer, Saab, and Opel (not to mention Vauxhall, in Britian). It also owns a large part of Isuzu, Suzuiki, Subaru, Daewoo, & Holden. Plus they run the NUMI plant where they make cars TOGETHER with TOYOTA.

Ford: Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Auston Martin. Ford also has controlling intrest in Volvo & 33% of Mazda. Ford has had a simalar deal that GM & Toyota has, and made the villager mim vans with Nissan as the Quest. They will be making SUV's at the same plant soon.

Daimler Chrysler: Mercedes Benz, Chrysler Dodge, Jeep ,Freightliner, Smart, Maybach, Western Star Trucks, Sterling Trucks, 40% Mitsubishi, 40% McLaren Cars, & 10% of Hyundai .
Volkswagen: Audi, Bently, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Seat, Skoda.
BMW: Rolls-Royce, & Mini
Nissan: Renault & small part of Fiat (whose largest outside supplier is Delco/eGM, GenMo Europe with GM parts).
Honda is making deals right now with GM to make or help assemble Honda trucks..yes, Honda is going to make a pickup for the US market..

Cars are assembled all over the place in different countries with parts from different countries..there are actually german cars, designed in Italy, built in America with mexican parts and sold in Brazil! ::) With the exception of the VW group, almost every auto company that sell cars in this country now has a factory here, bringing much needed jobs and money into a sluggish economy.

Now that being said, I don't think Daimler Chrysler would agree with you, they have quite a few standout products.. theres the Crossfire, the new Magnum crusier, the PT Crusier is still selling (and a new convertible will help too), the Viper, the LM models (300M and the like) are going REAR WHEEL DRIVE with V-8 hemi's (very promising considering Mopar hasen't produced a RWD car since the early 80's & hasen't put a hemi in a passenger vehicle since the early '70's). We may actually see the rebirth of the Imperial as a premier luxury car to compete with Caddys and Lexus 8). Chrysler has even made rumblings of a making a super-exotic supercar a la Lamborghini/Frerrari style. Daimlers shot of cash flow into Chrysler was much needed and some of the things they're doing would not have been possible without the merger..

GM has Chevy's new SS Impala/SS Monte Carlo, new C6 Vette, the new retro SSR, Pontiac a new GTO 8), a new two seater Pontiac sports car, Saturn is getting a performance line (Red Line), Caddys new SLR, the new Hummer H3(Hummer pickup)... GM has finally gotten some of their design issues resolved, they have some truly interesting and great cars coming out.
Ford has the new (retro looking) Mustang 8), a new Cobra (with a V-10), a updated GT40, the new T-Bird is still about, the new Ford 500 sedan, a new Lincoln Mark Series (with fold away steel top).

C'mon, you can't say American cars (or manufactuers) are on the downside, the last two years have been something of a  renaissance for us car guys and for performace models in general.
The only bad thing that has happened is the loss of the Camero/Firebird :(..but maybe that will be addressed soon..
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I'll agree American Car Companies have gotten better the last 3 years and since 1997 their quality/reliability has gotten better. I'll agree with the PT Cruiser and Crossfire being standout products. The Crossfire's are just sitting on lots though as Chrsyler refuses to sell any Croosfire's below MSRP(Ithink Mercedes has something to do with that however.)

I'll agree with import car comanies with making cars here is a great thing for the US economy and the lines are blurred between domestic and import(after all its not the 80's anymore.) I currently own a Japanese Car that is made in the US so I'm with you there. I am a big Honda and Mazda fan but definately no bias towards the Domestic Big 3. I think of some of Chrysler products in the mid to late 90's like the Viper, Sebring, 300M and Concorde are timeless. Pontiac had some good stuff in the late 80's/early 90's with cars like the 6000, Grand Prix, Grand AM, and Boneville were nice formal designs for that time period(mid 80's/real early 90's.)

As for now I think Gm has some of the best designs out there for American Car Companies with the new SRX SUV, and XLR. THE CTS is kinda out there if you know what I mean. THe Envoy has a nice exterior design for a truck. THe new GTO as you previously mentioned is pretty good as well.

Quoting:
I'll agree American Car Companies have gotten better the last 3 years and since 1997 their quality/reliability has gotten better. I'll agree with the PT Cruiser and Crossfire being standout products. The Crossfire's are just sitting on lots though as Chrsyler refuses to sell any Croosfire's below MSRP(Ithink Mercedes has something to do with that however.)End Quote

Your're right, its a good car, but not moving..yes, Mercedes has something to do with it, the Crossfire is essentially a Mercedes SL under the skin, it has the same exact chassis, but a Chrysler motor..its a good buy thou, if you consider that you're getting a Mercedes chassis, great American styling, and german engineering at a Chrysler price, its a steal..Chrysler has got to hold the price if they are going to try and raise the level of their product in the publics eyes, you can't do that with rebates and underselling the MSRP..your going to see a lot more MB-Chrysler cross-pollenated products soon..

Quoting:As for now I think Gm has some of the best designs out there for American Car Companies with the new SRX SUV, and XLR. THE CTS is kinda out there if you know what I mean. THe Envoy has a nice exterior design for a truck. THe new GTO as you previously mentioned is pretty good as well.
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Caddilac had to get better, its clientle was literally dieing off, they needed new, more strong, youthful designs/cars to stay alive & attract younger buyers. The XLR for instace is built on the same platform of the new C6 Vette with a Northstar motor, that combo can't go wrong..and they needed a new brash flagship model..

I think, GM's new design chief, Ed Welburn, is steering GM styling on the right course. His design philosophy is a lot like mine (well, he WAS one of my instructors in art school), has a lot of passion in his work, and loves what he does.

Ironic that Pontiac lost one of the American pony/muscle cars, the Firebird, to gain the return of the original muscle car & ground pounder, the GTO..and the new GTO is actually a rebadged Austrailian Holden, that is going to be sold in the US as a Pontiac..oh well, the GTO is back and thats good enough for me..

Quoting:




I think, GM's new design chief, Ed Welburn, is steering GM styling on the right course. His design philosophy is a lot like mine (well, he WAS one of my instructors in art school), has a lot of passion in his work, and loves what he does.

Ironic that Pontiac lost one of the American pony/muscle cars, the Firebird, to gain the return of the original muscle car & ground pounder, the GTO..and the new GTO is actually a rebadged Austrailian Holden, that is going to be sold in the US as a Pontiac..oh well, the GTO is back and thats good enough for me..
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About the new design chief I have heard about him in a newspaper article. We got to see how his designs come out. Wayne Cherry-the former GM designer was either hit or miss: the 97 Pontiac Grand Prix not my taste but was a hit but then you got the Aztec which was really really bad. Thats a good fun fact that the new GM designer was one of your teachers in school.

About Pontiac well they stopped put cladding on their cars which is a start. We will have to how the G6 comes out(replacement for the Grand AM.) If Mazda, Nissan, and Hyundai can winner buyers back I think Pontiac can. Cadillac has proven GM can win buyers back. Now what do you with Buick? That remains to be seen.

Quoting:


Chrysler hasn't ever offered anything that appealed to me, and Ford...give me a break.  Ford seems to be in the mindset that every vehicle in their fleet has to look the same.  And unfortunately for them, they all do.  I can honestly say that I haven't seen a Ford I liked in the last 15 years.  Don't get me started on how they completely destroyed the legacy of the Mustang.  Its nothing more than a "hip grandma-car" now.

GM continues to offer new vehicles year after year, and for the most part, they are very appealing and attractive.
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Ford was good in the mid to late 80's with stuff with the Thunderbird, and the Tarus. I think Ford has ups and downs. They had the Focus which had like 11 recalls or so a couple years ago. The 1996 Tarus was too radical looking for the American Public. Then there was the Firestone thing and Ford's did suffer alot from that. I liked the 97-98 Mustang but thats about it. I wouldn't buy nothing from Ford now. They need to do something with Lincoln. Competitors like Acura, Infinti, and Caddy are making Lincolns look like yesterdays news.

On the good side for Ford the Explorer and Escape are always good sellers.

Quoting:They had the Focus which had like 11 recalls or so a couple years ago.End Quote

Yeah, the Focus had the dishonor of being the world most recalled car. It's weird because, it's actually a decent car, a hell of lot better than the Escort it replaced. The Mazda Protege, or  Mazda "3" is the same car under the skin as the Focus, and Mazda didn't have the recall issues, obviously problems in assembly (at Ford) not in the design.

Quoting:and Ford...give me a break.  Ford seems to be in the mindset that every vehicle in their fleet has to look the same.  And unfortunately for them, they all do.  I can honestly say that I haven't seen a Ford I liked in the last 15 years.  Don't get me started on how they completely destroyed the legacy of the Mustang.  Its nothing more than a "hip grandma-car" now.End Quote

Ford has had some problems; in the 80's there was a major effort to create some family identity with their cars (Dick Teague, Chief Designer).
First the Thunderbird ('83), then the Taurus ('85) had this new aero shape (the designers at GM called them jellybeans :D).  But it worked & they sold well, for a while. After the Taurus, Ford quickly updated all their models with a Taurus-like look (especially the nose/grill-less look, w/floating Ford oval).
Unfortunately, by the early 90's all this did was dullen the impact of their supposedly "individual" model designs.
By the mid 90's they tried the new "Edge" look, i.e. more edges on the surfaces of their cars, you can really see this influence on the late 90's Mustang with the shaper/more defined grille/nose and body sculpting. The basic design of the Focus, & the new F-150 was created using this design theme as well.
The newer Fords are somewhat more "defined" & "cut", they look more distinctive, albeit, influenced more by older (read "retro") designs. The new Mustang in particular is almost exactly what a '05 version of a 1967 Mustang fastback would look like, right down to the grille, rear taillights and side scoops.  It definitely has gotten some of it macho/muscular heritage back with this (newer?) look.
It looks good, but you've got to wonder, as with the recent Thunderbird, Cobra & GT-40, in addition to the Mustang, is Ford depending too much on retro design themes, can they do anything really fresh and new?
They know they have to put out some really more interesting vehicles, it’ll be up to the public to tell if their new designs are working or not..

Quoting:

Yeah, the Focus had the dishonor of being the world most recalled car. It's weird because, it's actually a decent car, a hell of lot better than the Escort it replaced. The Mazda Protege, or  Mazda "3" is the same car under the skin as the Focus, and Mazda didn't have the recall issues, obviously problems in assembly (at Ford) not in the design.




By the mid 90's they tried the new "Edge" look, i.e. more edges on the surfaces of their cars, you can really see this influence on the late 90's Mustang with the shaper/more defined grille/nose and body sculpting. The basic design of the Focus, & the new F-150 was created using this design theme as well.
The newer Fords are somewhat more "defined" & "cut", they look more distinctive, albeit, influenced more by older (read "retro") designs. The new Mustang in particular is almost exactly what a '05 version of a 1967 Mustang fastback would look like, right down to the grille, rear taillights and side scoops.  It definitely has gotten some of it macho/muscular heritage back with this (newer?) look.
It looks good, but you've got to wonder, as with the recent Thunderbird, Cobra & GT-40, in addition to the Mustang, is Ford depending too much on retro design themes, can they do anything really fresh and new?
They know they have to put out some really more interesting vehicles, it’ll be up to the public to tell if their new designs are working or not..

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First off on the Mazda 3 it has had some problems but no recalls. The Protege name lasted from 1990-2003. Before that it was called the Mazda 323.

Secondly, With Ford's mid to late 90's styling theme tif you notice the Escort and Tarus follow the same design theme. The Escort was more conservative though on the exterior than the 96 Tarus was. Ford really missed it on the mid 90's Escort and the Honda Civic became the Number 1 selling Compact Car in America around 1996-1997. Back to Ford, the mid 90's styling theme had a techy look space aged theme kinda look to it. Even the interior in the mid 90's Escort's and Tarus's had a techy/spacey thing going on with the outlining the center side pod where the radio and A/C buttons are located.

Ford tried to be innovative with its exterior design in the mid 90's sort of like Cadillac is now. It was just too out there for its time.

The late 90's Mustang depends which model you are talking about are you talking about the 97-98 model or the 99-04 model?

As for the new Mustang I don't lke this retro theme by Ford either with the new Mustang. I like the new F-150 though. Lets see how the new 500 comes out. The front end from what I have seen says to me Lexus LS 430.

Ford currently the Focus was an exterior styling success and drew rave reviews from car critics. Ford seems like they always try to hits you with something different than the Japanese or European Car Companies and they end up hitting it right on the head or totally missing it.

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First off on the Mazda 3 it has had some problems but no recalls. The Protege name lasted from 1990-2003. Before that it was called the Mazda 323.End Quote

I was mixing "Protege" & Mazda 3 liberally, so that others on the board from other countries would know what I speak of, i.e.,  Mazda only used "Protege" for the U.S. market, they are now just switching to "3" as of this model year to match the naming of there other cars..BTW Ford is taking Mazada production cheif as their own to shore up their assembly problems..

Quoting:Secondly, With Ford's mid to late 90's styling theme tif you notice the Escort and Tarus follow the same design theme. The Escort was more conservative though on the exterior than the 96 Tarus was. Ford really missed it on the mid 90's Escort and the Honda Civic became the Number 1 selling Compact Car in America around 1996-1997. Back to Ford, the mid 90's styling theme had a techy look space aged theme kinda look to it. Even the interior in the mid 90's Escort's and Tarus's had a techy/spacey thing going on with the outlining the center side pod where the radio and A/C buttons are located.End Quote

I had mentioned the Edge look as mid 90's, becasue this is when this design theme was in effect in the design studio, i.e. the designs actually hit the street in the very late 90's early 00's for the Focus, F-150 etc. (about 3-5 yrs. lead time). Ford was still using J May's organic shapes and design philosophy in the mid 90's, and yes they made a big goof on the Taurus and rushed back for a more conservative design afterwards. The interiors by the way were not done by the same design team nor did they always seem to work together with the exterior..

Quoting:Ford tried to be innovative with its exterior design in the mid 90's sort of like Cadillac is now. It was just too out there for its time.End Quote

..but remember Ford still sold the heck out of the Escort (the euro Escort not being the same as the US.) overseas, it was still popular and for some reason you can get away with more radical designs with small cars overseas than you can in the US. Look at Fiats UNO or Seat, Mecedes A-Class or Peugeot/Citroen. When it comes to bigger cars, the public (& Europeans in particular) like(s) conservative designs, Ford learned this the hard way back in the 80's with the Sierra/Scorpio in England (Merkur to us).They had to do a quick conservative redesign for those overseas, because it wasn't selling, too radical. Why they didn't learn their lesson and made a goof with the Taurus, we'll never know.

Quoting:The late 90's Mustang depends which model you are talking about are you talking about the 97-98 model or the 99-04 model? End Quote

99-04, but they were working on the Mustang bit by bit to add more Mustang like ques from the start, the 94 Mustang tail lights for instance were changed to an upright one the following year to suggest Mustangs rear lights of the past. The intial design was kind of soft to begin with, and they were trying to make it harder or edgier from there on..It weird because if you read and see the design proposals for the 94 Mustang, there was three versions, a Arnonld Schwarzenegger, a Bruce Jenner, and one that was inbetween the two. The Bruce Jenner being the "softer" one, thats the one that they went with...but by 99-04 they had made more & more changes & retro ques to the 'Stang that it ends up looking almost exactly like the Schwarzenegger or "harder/edgier" look that they began with back in the conceptual stage.

Quoting:As for the new Mustang I don't lke this retro theme by Ford either with the new Mustang. I like the new F-150 though. Lets see how the new 500 comes out. The front end from what I have seen says to me Lexus LS 430.
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I don't know, the new (retro) Mustang isn't bad, just not original, I think they'll sell well though. For those who are old enough to remembe the Mustangs of old, they'll be right there to pick it up, no question. May be right abot the 500 though(wonder if they'll have a Galaixie version  ;), but isn't the LS 430 design more of a germanic one to begin with? I had always thougt it was a Japanse interpatation of a Mercedes, not bad mind you, just not original.

Quoting:


I was mixing "Protege" & Mazda 3 liberally, so that others on the board from other countries would know what I speak of, i.e.,  Mazda only used "Protege" for the U.S. market, they are now just switching to "3" as of this model year to match the naming of there other cars..BTW Ford is taking Mazada production cheif as their own to shore up their assembly problems..


I had mentioned the Edge look as mid 90's, becasue this is when this design theme was in effect in the design studio, i.e. the designs actually hit the street in the very late 90's early 00's for the Focus, F-150 etc. (about 3-5 yrs. lead time). Ford was still using J May's organic shapes and design philosophy in the mid 90's, and yes they made a big goof on the Taurus and rushed back for a more conservative design afterwards. The interiors by the way were not done by the same design team nor did they always seem to work together with the exterior..


..but remember Ford still sold the heck out of the Escort (the euro Escort not being the same as the US.) overseas, it was still popular and for some reason you can get away with more radical designs with small cars overseas than you can in the US. Look at Fiats UNO or Seat, Mecedes A-Class or Peugeot/Citroen. When it comes to bigger cars, the public (& Europeans in particular) like(s) conservative designs, Ford learned this the hard way back in the 80's with the Sierra/Scorpio in England (Merkur to us).They had to do a quick conservative redesign for those overseas, because it wasn't selling, too radical. Why they didn't learn their lesson and made a goof with the Taurus, we'll never know.


99-04, but they were working on the Mustang bit by bit to add more Mustang like ques from the start, the 94 Mustang tail lights for instance were changed to an upright one the following year to suggest Mustangs rear lights of the past. The intial design was kind of soft to begin with, and they were trying to make it harder or edgier from there on..It weird because if you read and see the design proposals for the 94 Mustang, there was three versions, a Arnonld Schwarzenegger, a Bruce Jenner, and one that was inbetween the two. The Bruce Jenner being the "softer" one, thats the one that they went with...but by 99-04 they had made more & more changes & retro ques to the 'Stang that it ends up looking almost exactly like the Schwarzenegger or "harder/edgier" look that they began with back in the conceptual stage.


I don't know, the new (retro) Mustang isn't bad, just not original, I think they'll sell well though. For those who are old enough to remembe the Mustangs of old, they'll be right there to pick it up, no question. May be right abot the 500 though(wonder if they'll have a Galaixie version  ;), but isn't the LS 430 design more of a germanic one to begin with? I had always thougt it was a Japanse interpatation of a Mercedes, not bad mind you, just not original.


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With Mazda being a Mazda fan I know about their new numeric labeling on cars(the 3, 6, Rx-8 and maybe 9 too.) Mazda is really good at building a solid car that holds up well and is reliable. BTW, the 6 is a great looking car(with the spoiler/sport package combo anyway.)

With Ford's styling theme's with the edge look and the organic shapes of J Mayes the "edge look" to me is a better design philosphy to me. The young people love the Focus and the F-150 should be very very successful(nice use of interior materials in F-150.) Is J Mayes still the designer at Ford? The interiors in the mid 90's Fords it was just too out there. I thought the interior theme did match well the exterior's cars(mid 90's Focus and Tarus)but thats not what the American public wanted. The interiors on those cars looked too busy if you will for that time period and as said before the exteriors were too busy looking.

Yes I know you can get away on small cars with more edgy designs overseas.

As far as bigger cars are concerned I think the new BMW 7 Series is too out there for me. The Audi A8 is great looking for a big car.

Finally, yeah the Lexus Ls430 does mimmic Mercedes exterior styling.

With the Mustang I don't like the square headlights on the 99 model. The 97-98 the headlights were more round looking which I definately liked better than the 99 model. I like the interior in the 99 Mustang however.

In conclusion, I think Ford is heading the right with their styling ecept for the 05 Mustang.

2 questions: Is Ford going to do something with Lincoln and does the 05 Focus get a refreshened interior for 05 for the Us Market? From what I undertand Europe will be recieving a brand new Focus. The US version will be the same style with a little tweaking on the exterior(a little more chrome on the grille.) I think Ford with the 05 Focus is doing the same thing they did with the 92 Tarus(no redesign on the bodystyle) but a little tweaking here and there. The 86-91 and 92-95 Tarus were about the same looking except for a few cosmetic changes on the exterior.

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With Mazda being a Mazda fan I know about their new numeric labeling on cars(the 3, 6, Rx-8 and maybe 9 too.) Mazda is really good at building a solid car that holds up well and is reliable. BTW, the 6 is a great looking car(with the spoiler/sport package combo anyway.)End Quote

The 6 is a GREAT car, but I'm wondering if its moving the way Mazda would like it to, I'm also wondering if the RX-8 is doing as well as they expected, they just had some hub-bub about the horsepower figures being lower than advertised, no big deal..I thought I'd see more in car hungry L.A. but only a few so far..

Quoting:With Ford's styling theme's with the edge look and the organic shapes of J Mayes the "edge look" to me is a better design philosphy to me. The young people love the Focus and the F-150 should be very very successful(nice use of interior materials in F-150.) Is J Mayes still the designer at Ford?
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J Mayes is now the Vice Pres of Design at Ford, Larry Erickson is the new chief designer, don't know much about him, pretty young guy..the 05 Mustang is his baby (with Mayes oversight)

Quoting:As far as bigger cars are concerned I think the new BMW 7 Series is too out there for me. The Audi A8 is great looking for a big car.End Quote

You can say that again, BMW has been taking a lot of flak on the new 7 series, but they are sticking to their guns. Don't remmber the name but a young guy in his 20's did the theme for this in Germany. I think BMW really wanted a GERMAN theme from a german designer. I guess they were tired of people claiming their designs were staid and aged even when new. Can't say its a not a bold and strong look though..After all they do have a design studio here in souther Cal, I'm pretty sure if they 7 styling came from here it would of looked different. But the 7 is selling, I see them all over the place, so somebody likes it..I'm kind of scared in I'm hoping the next 3 doesn't get the same treatment like the 7,6 & the 5..I was really hoping to afford the next M3 soon, and will be turned off if the 3 gets that ugly 7 trunk lid!
The Audis all look good, or they seem easy on the eyes anyway, the A8 looks pretty regal for its size. I wonder if they will make an S8 hi-po version, like the S6 and 4? I'm wondering what they will do now that VW is trying to go upscale, even past Audi with its VW Phaeton, they actually want to sell this car for almost $90K! Yes, it'll be the cheapest V-12 you can get, but 80-90 large for a VW? I'm a big VW fan and don't think they can pull it off..

Quoting:2 questions: Is Ford going to do something with Lincoln and does the 05 Focus get a refreshened interior for 05 for the Us Market? From what I undertand Europe will be recieving a brand new Focus. The US version will be the same style with a little tweaking on the exterior(a little more chrome on the grille.)
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All I've seen is the concepts for the next town car & Mark 9(pick up Car Styling magazine if you can to check out upcoming designs) or go to www.cardesignnews.com .
I've read about a freshened interior for the Focus..
Nothing impressive, the Mark 9 concepts are kind of dated already. The may go with that but I'm sure, as you mentioned, they are watching Cadiliac to see if they're line is working (it is). They really need something fresh, and if they go retro with Lincoln styling, I think it would be a mistake, the history of Lincoln has been modern-classic, they have a lot of work to do..

Quoting:



The 6 is a GREAT car, but I'm wondering if its moving the way Mazda would like it to, I'm also wondering if the RX-8 is doing as well as they expected, they just had some hub-bub about the horsepower figures being lower than advertised, no big deal..I thought I'd see more in car hungry L.A. but only a few so far..

J Mayes is now the Vice Pres of Design at Ford, Larry Erickson is the new chief designer, don't know much about him, pretty young guy..the 05 Mustang is his baby (with Mayes oversight)


You can say that again, BMW has been taking a lot of flak on the new 7 series, but they are sticking to their guns. Don't remmber the name but a young guy in his 20's did the theme for this in Germany. I think BMW really wanted a GERMAN theme from a german designer. I guess they were tired of people claiming their designs were staid and aged even when new. Can't say its a not a bold and strong look though..After all they do have a design studio here in souther Cal, I'm pretty sure if they 7 styling came from here it would of looked different. But the 7 is selling, I see them all over the place, so somebody likes it..I'm kind of scared in I'm hoping the next 3 doesn't get the same treatment like the 7,6 & the 5..I was really hoping to afford the next M3 soon, and will be turned off if the 3 gets that ugly 7 trunk lid!
The Audis all look good, or they seem easy on the eyes anyway, the A8 looks pretty regal for its size. I wonder if they will make an S8 hi-po version, like the S6 and 4? I'm wondering what they will do now that VW is trying to go upscale, even past Audi with its VW Phaeton, they actually want to sell this car for almost $90K! Yes, it'll be the cheapest V-12 you can get, but 80-90 large for a VW? I'm a big VW fan and don't think they can pull it off..


All I've seen is the concepts for the next town car & Mark 9(pick up Car Styling magazine if you can to check out upcoming designs) or go to www.cardesignnews.com .
I've read about a freshened interior for the Focus..
Nothing impressive, the Mark 9 concepts are kind of dated already. The may go with that but I'm sure, as you mentioned, they are watching Cadiliac to see if they're line is working (it is). They really need something fresh, and if they go retro with Lincoln styling, I think it would be a mistake, the history of Lincoln has been modern-classic, they have a lot of work to do..

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First on Mazda Yeah the 6 didn't sell when it was first inrroduced. As we all know their marketing of their line of cars is not the best. The 6 did sell well the second half of last year but with 2500 dollar factory rebates. Thats one of the weaknesses of Mazda: resale value so that why Honda and Toyota loyalists reject Mazda. The discounting Mazda does with all their cars effects resale value. I have seen aboit 9 RX-8's where I live.

As far as BMW"' styling is concerned it looks like Pontiac of the 90's: this new styling by BMW designer Chris Bangle is what I call overstyling cars. I like the 99 3 Series. Thats all I like from BMW really.

BTW, What do you think about what Honda is doing with Acura's styling? At least with the 04 TL they are wiping that image of blandness that everybody has always complained about with Acura. The TSX looks really good. I hope the unpcoming RL looks good.
.

With VW why are they going into this mindset of being a luxury brand? They have Audi for that. VW I'll give them credit they won alot of young women buyers in their 20's over the last few years now they are going to throw that all away? I don't understand it. I'm not a VW fan really but I love the looks of the 02-04 Passat. Its a clean looking but has precsence with out being gaudy like 90's Pontiac. I like the look of the Toureg SUV too.

Quoting:
Acura's new styling is good, its something they need to do. The TL looks good and the TSX even better, but I still feel they need something a little more extreme, just to maybe show they can do it..anything is better than the way most Acuras (excecpt the Integra) looked in the 90's, almost put you to sleep looking at one on the road. I was expecting Honda to try and move some of the newer styling themes of the new NSX to the rest of the Acura line..

Have no idea what's up VW's sleeve with going WAY upmarket. Can't see how they're going to sell a 12 cyl, $85k Phaeton (a pumped up and gussied up Passat). I think they're pushing it as it is with the $40K W8 Passat. Only certain VW dealers are going to qualify to be able to sell the Phaeton, so it'll be that much more difficult for a buyer who even had the $$ to find one..
VW is the third largest manufacturer in Europe and the fifth in the world now. Maybe since they bought Bently (and gave up Rolls Royce to BMW), Lamborghini, & Bugatti and their position in the world, they think it's time to flex their muscles and show off what they can do? I first had read that VW dealers were tired of developing a customer base that had a taste  for german cars/german engineering, only to see them go eleswhere (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) when they had more money or luxury in mind. But that dosen't figure when you notice that most VW dealers are also Audi and Porsche dealers too..
You'd think VW would really try to come in as the affordable German economy alternative to Honda and Toyota, but they seem to be going the other way. Both the next generation Golf & Jetta are getting bigger and more exspensive, the Passat is already getting into the BMW 3 & 5 series region, or M-B C class teritory, they really need a low budget car in the mid $ teens to get the younger buyer if they want to start them in on being a VW loyalist...I think the problems they had with the Rabbit (american built ones, excepting the GTI) in the late 70's/early 80's doomed them with US economy small-car buyers, they're too scared to try and sell the Polo over here, but they need to..they already have a gas-hybrid version that would be a great match for the Honda Civic & Toyota hybrids.
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As far as Acura's styling theme is concerned the 90-93 and 94-01 Integra's were pretty good loking cars. The new RSX is staid. I recently have saw sales for last month of the RSX an its not the phenomen of the young people that the Integra was in the 90's.

The 1991-1995 Acura Legend Sedan and Coupe were lookers. Acura lost their way on the 96 TL. The 97-99 Cl was a dissapointment also. The front end of the 96-98 TL was pretty cool looking but the back end of the car was just very plain. The 99 TL was even blander than the 98 was. Finally though with the 02 refresh with the bigger grille, refreshened tailights, and headlights Honda started to go in the right direction with the exterior styling of the TL. The 04 TL they finally hit it right. I saw a glimpse of the newer NSX in Motor Trend(a conceot picture) and it it was pretty mean looking. From the glimpse I saw it does follow the styling theme of the newer Acura's. The old NSX from the 90's before the refresh to the front end a couple years ago was a pretty good looking car.

Finally, with VW their quality/reliability is not very good with the exception of Passat. I don't get why VW is getting mad if VW buyers move up to Audi after all doesn't VW own Audi? About VW pricing the Jetta is already more expensive than its competition fromn the Japanese why make the car more expensive on price point?