Quoting:
Don't forget how he illegally stole the election by working with his brother Jeb.
End Quote

::) ::) ::)

Quoting:
My beef is that he spend 15 minutes talking about using performing enhancing drugs for baseball, as if anyone cares. Yes ,it is a serious problem that players cheat to padd their stats, but it isn't appropriate in a State of The Union speech, even if the President used to own the Texas Rangers. He only does this when he is asked questions on the Economy or Osama bin Laden.  
End Quote

That was maybe 3 minutes, if that, and that was including the applause.  If you had seen or heard it in context he was linking professional athletes as role models to children with the policies against youth drug use.

Quoting:


That was maybe 3 minutes, if that, and that was including the applause.  If you had seen or heard it in context he was linking professional athletes as role models to children with the policies against youth drug use.
End Quote

Quoting:And in his defense, I am glad that he took on the 'War on Terror'.  I know I sleep better at night now since 9/11.End Quote

Amen to that.

Quoting:As far as jobs go, it's unfortunate that someone has to take a job that seems beneath him.  It would be more unfortunate if he didn't have a job at all.  End Quote

As I drive through town, I literally see "Now Hiring" signs all over the place.  Granted, they are at mostly retail and restaurants.  But, the way I see it, these places are hiring new workers and if someone is unemployed and needs work, why aren't they taking these jobs?  

Seems to me if someone is desperate, as some politicians (eh hem Howard Dean) keep saying they are, they would take these jobs.  Even if its only for a while until something "up to their level" comes along.

Quoting:
Don't forget how he illegally stole the election by working with his brother Jeb.
End Quote

He didn't steal the election.  Granted he didn't get a majority of popular vote, but he got the electoral votes.  It can work that way...I don't like the system, either but complaining about it won't fix it. (although, I was glad won and not Gore)

Quoting:As if that were not bad enough, he pursues the issues of space exploration and colonization and even asks for funding, clearly not having a clue as to what his priorities should be or what the people in the real world need.
End Quote

I agree with you here, Hair.  As much as I would love to see us go back to the moon or go to Mars, there is more important stuff that we could use the money on in the country.

Quoting:As I drive through town, I literally see "Now Hiring" signs all over the place.  Granted, they are at mostly retail and restaurants.  But, the way I see it, these places are hiring new workers and if someone is unemployed and needs work, why aren't they taking these jobs?  

Seems to me if someone is desperate, as some politicians (eh hem Howard Dean) keep saying they are, they would take these jobs.  Even if its only for a while until something "up to their level" comes along.End Quote

You're a fortunate man if you're seeing these signs all over the place in your area of the nation. I have traveled extensively and have witnessed 0 jobs available. Employers are continually laying people off. No one's hiring. In the retail district, I witnessed several people be "let go" on Christmas Eve. I was appalled. Most fast food chains are run by teens, so the opportunities for an older generation worker are slim. One of the popular reasons given for the "not hiring" trend to someone who finds themselves having to work a menial job - "Sorry, you're overqualified".

Unfortunately, I don't see the job situation improving anytime soon.

As far as Dems candidates go, there's John Edwards. What's your opinion on him guys and gals?

I read one page from his site and I thought he made some good points. He gave some stats about what I'm trying to say in reference to some of the issues I believe neglected during Bush's administration.

I'll link the page I read below for those who may be interested.

I'm not saying I will vote for this guy, or that I believe he has all the answers; just that I agree with his stats on jobs, health care and such.

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/page.asp?id=557

Quoting:I agree with you here, Hair.  As much as I would love to see us go back to the moon or go to Mars, there is more important stuff that we could use the money on in the country.End Quote

Thank you, Dagwood. It's nice to know someone else agrees with me on at least one point.

Quoting:


He didn't steal the election.  Granted he didn't get a majority of popular vote, but he got the electoral votes.  It can work that way...I don't like the system, either but complaining about it won't fix it. (although, I was glad won and not Gore)End Quote

And while many complained about the electoral college neither party has taken steps to change this system.

Quoting:
I agree with you here, Hair.  As much as I would love to see us go back to the moon or go to Mars, there is more important stuff that we could use the money on in the country.
End Quote

Although a lot of our wonderful technology exists because of our space program, I would like to see Bush fix up health care and care for our elderly before planning more trips to the moon or Mars.

Quoting:GW Bush basically spent all of his time, money, resources, energy and effort in homeland security and in military, warring, democratizing and rebuilding operations overseas.End Quote

Not just his - he spent OURS.

Here's an eye-opening link EVERYONE should read -

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=482947

$127 billion: Amount of US budget surplus in the year that Bush became President in 2001

$374 billion: Amount of US budget deficit in the fiscal year for 2003

$23,920: Amount of each US citizen's share of the national debt as of 19 January 2004

And, more importantly:
501: Number of American servicemen to die in Iraq from the beginning of the war - so far

16,000: Approximate number of Iraqis killed since the start of war

Quoting:As I drive through town, I literally see "Now Hiring" signs all over the place.  Granted, they are at mostly retail and restaurants.  But, the way I see it, these places are hiring new workers and if someone is unemployed and needs work, why aren't they taking these jobs?End Quote

There are various reasons an unemployed person might not take a low-paying job.  For example, for people with kids, the cost of childcare while they're at work might be about the same as what they'd be earning at the low-paying job.  Or, a person may be receiving unemployment benefits that are more than what they'd earn at a minimum-wage job - if they took the job at Burger King, they'd not only lose their unemployment benefits, they'd have a lot less time to search for a good job.  (Note that people have to be actively seeking work in order to keep receiving unemployment benefits.)  As Hairspray mentioned, some are turned away for being overqualified.  And then, some people develop depression after being laid off which would be exacerbated by a menial job; if they're seriously depressed, they may not even have the energy to make the fries.  I guess you'd just have to ask each individual unemployed person the reason they don't take a menial job until something better comes along - I doubt there's a single one who hasn't already considered it and weighed the plusses and minuses.

Quoting:There are various reasons an unemployed person might not take a low-paying job.  For example, for people with kids, the cost of childcare while they're at work might be about the same as what they'd be earning at the low-paying job.  Or, a person may be receiving unemployment benefits that are more than what they'd earn at a minimum-wage job - if they took the job at Burger King, they'd not only lose their unemployment benefits, they'd have a lot less time to search for a good job.  (Note that people have to be actively seeking work in order to keep receiving unemployment benefits.)  As Hairspray mentioned, some are turned away for being overqualified.  And then, some people develop depression after being laid off which would be exacerbated by a menial job; if they're seriously depressed, they may not even have the energy to make the fries.  I guess you'd just have to ask each individual unemployed person the reason they don't take a menial job until something better comes along - I doubt there's a single one who hasn't already considered it and weighed the plusses and minuses.End Quote

I have one thing to say about this excerpt -

Exactly.

Quoting:
GW Bush basically spent all of his time, money, resources, energy and effort in homeland security and in military, warring, democratizing and rebuilding operations overseas.

I don't care what he or anyone says, I truly believe he "dropped the ball" on our nation's domestic issues like education, healthcare, unemployment, etc., etc...
End Quote

One thing that can never be denied: military makes jobs.  In fact, the Defense Industry is one of the largest employers in the nation.  That is both direct (making military equipment) and indirect (things like GPS, Computers, Hummers, and etc which came from military research).  In the last 20 years, most of that was spent either in the military, or working for companies like Hughes and Boeing, where the Military was a major purchaser.  And that money spent means jobs.

As far as education, it is amazing how an election can change outlooks.  Bush proposed and passed the largest Education bill in US history!  In fact, the bill sailed through Congress with overwhelming support on both sides.  Yet now with an election on, you hear how he failed in education.  This always amazes me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-05-09-bush-education.htm

Quoting:
As if that were not bad enough, he pursues the issues of space exploration and colonization and even asks for funding, clearly not having a clue as to what his priorities should be or what the people in the real world need. >:(
End Quote

I wonder how many people would be saying these things to JFK, when he promised to send men to the moon by the end of the 1960's.

NASA has been floundering with no mission since the 1980's.  I feel he did the right thing, in giving them a hard goal to reach.  ANd once again, look at the technology boom since the 1960's.  There are hard payouts, just from the research alone.  Not to mention all of the jobs made, from all over the nation!

Don't forget, jobs were made for Apollo in EVERY state in the country.  Plus the R&D money, and the things made from that research.  THat makes a ton of jobs.  I don't know about you, but I would rather see money going to make jobs, then to give it away to the unemployed.  If you give a man a fish, he is fed for a day.  If you teach a man to fish, he is fed every day.

Quoting:
Many companies in our nation are relying on other countries like India to do the work Americans could be doing.
End Quote

That is simple supply and demand.  India workers charge less.  And without so many stupid unions in the way, who can blame them?  I am sure that the grocery stores in LA could do that, instead of the strike going on now, because grocery workers want $25 an hour and full medical benefits.

Quoting:
Where are the jobs? Nowhere to be found from what I can see. An engineer gets laid-off after working for the same company for years making a decent salary due to yearly monetary raises, to then have to work at a McDonald's fast food restaurant, starting from the bottom at minimum wage, in order to somehow survive for the rest of his days because no one is hiring!! :o :P
End Quote

Well, you gotta start somewhere.  I see a LOT of jobs here in Alabama.  A gal I know started at McDonalds in August of last year, and she is now an assistant manager there.  But a lot of people do not want to start at the bottom, they want instant money.  There are lots of jobs in sales and food service.  I even did it myself when I could not do my chosen career.  And it kept me going until the right job came along.

Quoting:
As far as jobs go, it's unfortunate that someone has to take a job that seems beneath him.  It would be more unfortunate if he didn't have a job at all.
End Quote

Amen, I agree 100%.  I have done things I hated, because I needed work.  Even though I am a computer tech with over 15 years experience, I have done such things as fast food, cell phone sales, apartment cleaning, ditch digging (no joke), DJ at a strip club, handed out cupons on street corners, and others.  THe jobs all sucked, but at least I was working.  ANd I got by until I got a better job.

Quoting:
As I drive through town, I literally see "Now Hiring" signs all over the place.  Granted, they are at mostly retail and restaurants.  But, the way I see it, these places are hiring new workers and if someone is unemployed and needs work, why aren't they taking these jobs?  

Seems to me if someone is desperate, as some politicians (eh hem Howard Dean) keep saying they are, they would take these jobs.  Even if its only for a while until something "up to their level" comes along.
End Quote

Exactly!

Quoting:
You're a fortunate man if you're seeing these signs all over the place in your area of the nation. I have traveled extensively and have witnessed 0 jobs available.
End Quote

I saw jobs like that in LA, and on my move from LA to Alabama.  I see even more of them now.

A friend of mine here got a job after not working for 8 years (was a housewife, is now divorced).  SHe got a job in 2 weeks.  4 months later she got laid off when the owner sold the business, and the new owner brought in his own people.  SHe got another job with more pay a week later.

Just yesterday, I saw 6 "Help Wanted" signs!  1 at fast food, 2 at gas stations/convience stores, 1 at a bank, 1 at WalMart, and 1 at a laundramat.  

Quoting:
There are various reasons an unemployed person might not take a low-paying job.  For example, for people with kids, the cost of childcare while they're at work might be about the same as what they'd be earning at the low-paying job.  Or, a person may be receiving unemployment benefits that are more than what they'd earn at a minimum-wage job.
End Quote

Then that is a problem with the system, not that there are no jobs.

But as the great philospher Forrest Gump said, "That's all I have to say about that".

Quoting:
That is simple supply and demand.  India workers charge less.  And without so many stupid unions in the way, who can blame them?  I am sure that the grocery stores in LA could do that, instead of the strike going on now, because grocery workers want $25 an hour and full medical benefits.
End Quote

Well I suppose American firms could start paying $2 an hour for 10-hour shifts, 6 days a week with no sick pay, paid vacations, meal breaks, compensation or any of the other things that unions have fought to see introduced in the industrial age. I'm sure that would turn the economy around.

Quoting:Just yesterday, I saw 6 "Help Wanted" signs!  1 at fast food, 2 at gas stations/convience stores, 1 at a bank, 1 at WalMart, and 1 at a laundramatEnd Quote

Same here.

Today, just going a few blocks away to Target, I saw at least 2 "Now Hiring" sign.  And that was just within 2-3 blocks.  You mentioned Walmart, my city has 3, and they are all hiring.  Along with 3 Targets, both hiring.  Tons of groceries, 75-80% hiring, along with many many restaraunts hiring.....and the list goes on.

I realise working at Walmart might not be "below" someone who is laid off from their high-paying exec. job.  But hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do until something better comes along.

Quoting:
Well I suppose American firms could start paying $2 an hour for 10-hour shifts, 6 days a week with no sick pay, paid vacations, meal breaks, compensation or any of the other things that unions have fought to see introduced in the industrial age. I'm sure that would turn the economy around.
End Quote

I think what he was getting at is how many unions have sort of went off the "reality" deep end with some of their demands.

Me personally, I don't have problems with unions demanding reasonable things suchs as worker protection, reasonable health benfits, reasonable pay, etc etc.  

But you have to admit, many unions have went waaaay overboard with some demands in the past 10-15 years.  And in many cases, we the consumers, pay for it.

Quoting:


Same here.

Today, just going a few blocks away to Target, I saw at least 2 "Now Hiring" sign.  And that was just within 2-3 blocks.  You mentioned Walmart, my city has 3, and they are all hiring.  Along with 3 Targets, both hiring.  Tons of groceries, 75-80% hiring, along with many many restaraunts hiring.....and the list goes on.

I realise working at Walmart might not be "below" someone who is laid off from their high-paying exec. job.  But hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do until something better comes along.
End Quote

Well, when I couldn't get a job in my field, I applied for a pile of jobs at places like Target and grocery stores, and they wouldn't hire me because I was either over-qualified or they were looking for someone under 21 they could pay minimum wage. The truth is there are a lot of jobs like that out there, but they're usually looking for workers they can exploit/underpay. Unless they're at some kind of mangerial level, most of the people I see working at grocery stores and family department stores are either older women returning to the workforce to help supplement an income, or they're kids under 22. If I lost my job tomorrow and applied to be a store clerk at my local Target, I wouldn't get a look in.

Quoting:


I think what he was getting at is how many unions have sort of went off the "reality" deep end with some of their demands.

Me personally, I don't have problems with unions demanding reasonable things suchs as worker protection, reasonable health benfits, reasonable pay, etc etc.  

But you have to admit, many unions have went waaaay overboard with some demands in the past 10-15 years.  And in many cases, we the consumers, pay for it.
End Quote

I agree that unions can sometimes go too far. But we shouldn't blame workers' advocate groups for the downturn in the economy, especially when company presidents are voting themselves huge pay increases while they're closing down factories and offices across the country because they're feeling the squeeze. Unions have made labo(u)r expensive, but in many cases it damn well should be!

Quoting:
Ha. Ha. HAHAHAHAHA!
I can not believe some of you guys! First of all, alot of you Americans seem to think you are European. Legality of War?? Oh, Come on! War is always legal. I think the War was a great Idea. Bravo Bush, Bravo! Nobody else would of had the guts. Clinton didn't, Gore-Ya Right ::)
I feel sorry for Bush. After Clinton ruins the economy, and 9/11, Bush is the President of an economy in the slumps. So everyone (Including the Democrats) blames Mr.Bush for the Economy. Which by the way is growing very well, best growth in 20 years. If Kerry or another Dem becomes prez, he will be in office in Good Times and everyone will love him... (just you watch) That is the Story of life I guess :)
As to Legality... America can do whatever it wants, it doesn't need a hall pass. I hate how the whole world gets involved.
That's it for now :-X

End Quote

RIGHT ON!  Clinton Sucked and yet I kept my mouth shut for EIGHT LONG years of "Billary"...now I try to defend Bush against the haters and I get Crap!  ::)

Quoting:
Well I suppose American firms could start paying $2 an hour for 10-hour shifts, 6 days a week with no sick pay, paid vacations, meal breaks, compensation or any of the other things that unions have fought to see introduced in the industrial age. I'm sure that would turn the economy around.
End Quote

I can give you one good example of jobs exported to India, and jobs left here in the US.

Last year, Dell moved their customer support to India.  The wages are a lot less, and the cost of transferring the phone calls from the US to India was still cheeper then paying US workers.

YET, that was only the support for HOME users.  CORPORATE users still have their support done in the good old USA.  This is because if they loose one home user, so what?  But if they loose a corporate user due to bad support, they can loose millions.

A lot of companies export things like this, and also programming.  These are normally companies trying to cut corners to stay profitable.  And as far as I am concerned, they are welcome to do this.  After all, how many people complain about that when they can get a computer for $400???????

I find it amazing how some people complain about "exported jobs", but are happy to buy the cheeper products.  Having done telephone support for a major ISP, I can tell you that kind of work is only one step above telemarketing, and two steps above streetwalking.

Quoting:Last year, Dell moved their customer support to India.  The wages are a lot less, and the cost of transferring the phone calls from the US to India was still cheeper then paying US workers.End Quote

A few other major companies that have or are in the process of moving their customer support to India include: Verizon, Columbia House, and I read just last week that Microsoft will be in that group as all very soon, if not already.

Quoting:

America can do whatever it wants, it doesn't need a hall pass.

End Quote

:-X

Quoting:
Mr_80s,

We all have our different views about this topic. I expected opposing views and find them interesting. I do not agree with your responses, but I respect your opinion.
End Quote

I don't respect their opinions on this matter.  

They have a right to voice their opinions, and I will always fight to live in a world where people can voice their opinions, but I don't respect certain opinions. These guys are the same usual Republicans and/or card carrying conservatives that support George Bush or the GOP no matter what they do.  

Bush can come up with some loony toones crackpot reason for invading China tommorrow and you will see 80sRocked and Mr. 80s ready and willing to work with the spin machine on full wash, rinse, and tumble dry.

By the way, I think this whole "return to the moon", or "put people on Mars" is the BIGGEST POLITICAL SMOKESCREEN I have ever seen.  Bush, Dick Cheney (the funny man behind the curtain), Donald Rumsfield, and the rest of the Neo-Cons are just trying to divert attention away from the real problems like the situation in Iraq, the WMDs, Bin Laden, and the biggest loss of jobs since Herbert Hoover.  So Bush and Co. came up with this BS space exploration stuff to get people to stop talking about the real issues.  I can just imagine what that meeting was like.  "Hey let's come up with something crazy and patriotic, and let's echo JFK.  How about going back to the moon or putting someone on Mars?  People will eat that up and hopefully forget about how we screwed everything up"

Quoting:
Bush can come up with some loony toones crackpot reason... 80sRocked and Mr. 80s ready and willing to work with the spin machine on full wash, rinse, and tumble dry.End Quote

Well, first of all, even though I don't have a clue who you are, I am flattered you felt the need to mention me personally.


With that said, just because you don't agree with what I may say doesn't make what I say wrong.  And furthermore doesnt make me a crackpot.  I have seen all shades of the politcal spectrum on here, some I agree with and some I don't.  But when it's all said and done, I always respect all points of view.  Yes I come across as harsh and brash sometime, I acknowledge that.  But its an internet message board fro crying out loud.  



So therefore, I will rise above you, and say I do respect what you have to say, even if I disagree with it. :)

Quoting:
They have a right to voice their opinions, and I will always fight to live in a world where people can voice their opinions, but I don't respect certain opinions. These guys are the same usual Republicans and/or card carrying conservatives that support George Bush or the GOP no matter what they do.  

End Quote

No matter what their opinions may be or how far they push the Republican line, I have never seen them say anything as dumb and ignorant as this:

Quoting:

Come on! War is always legal. I think the War was a great Idea. America can do whatever it wants, it doesn't need a hall pass. I hate how the whole world gets involved.

End Quote

Quoting:

I feel sorry for Bush. After Clinton ruins the economy, and 9/11, Bush is the President of an economy in the slumps. So everyone (Including the Democrats) blames Mr.Bush for the Economy. Which by the way is growing very well, best growth in 20 years. If Kerry or another Dem becomes prez, he will be in office in Good Times and everyone will love him... (just you watch) That is the Story of life I guess :)
End Quote

As I said last night....I agree with ^ for the most part....it's refreshing to FINALLY hear somebody else who tells it like it is...and has the guts to bash Clinton..the moron of the 90's and partially resonsible for morals going out the window....or should I say Under The Desk

Quoting:
Just amazing... amazingly sad that people actually think he's doing a good job. End Quote

Yea!!  I'm amazingly sad!!  :)

Quoting:I feel sorry for Bush. After Clinton ruins the economy, and 9/11, Bush is the President of an economy in the slumps. So everyone (Including the Democrats) blames Mr.Bush for the Economy. Which by the way is growing very well, best growth in 20 years. If Kerry or another Dem becomes prez, he will be in office in Good Times and everyone will love him... (just you watch) That is the Story of life I guess  
End Quote

OK, just HOW did Clinton ruin the economy in the 90’s? I’ve heard this said before and don’t see any proof or action that supports this.
Secondly, I don’t see how any President, can bring us from such a surplus, to an overwhelming deficit can be called successful...Now aren’t the democrats supposed to be the ones spending our tax dollars? If Clinton really did ruin the economy just how does a record amount of spending help the situation?

Quoting:Just yesterday, I saw 6 "Help Wanted" signs!  1 at fast food, 2 at gas stations/convience stores, 1 at a bank, 1 at WalMart, and 1 at a laundramat.
End Quote

Quoting:Today, just going a few blocks away to Target, I saw at least 2 "Now Hiring" sign.  And that was just within 2-3 blocks.  You mentioned Walmart, my city has 3, and they are all hiring.  Along with 3 Targets, both hiring.  Tons of groceries, 75-80% hiring, along with many many restaraunts hiring.....and the list goes on.End Quote

Yes there are many more jobs saying “now hiring” in the local burger joint or Target/Wal-Mart...But the problem of employment is for the people who have been laid off or lost their jobs are college educated, or in skilled/trained jobs. The guy who has loyally put in his last 10 years at Joe’s Computer is not going to get any help from even working TWO of these $7/hr jobs...Hell three jobs aren’t going to help pay the mortgage, the car payment, insurance, and I’d add health care, but we know you’re not going to get that with a Target or Wal-Mart paying job..Are we really supposed to believe that a 30 yr old (or older), just laid off, or downsized due to outsourcing now should be competing with 16-19 yrs for jobs? Is this your idea of economic prosperity? These are not real jobs, and they don't pay a living wage. Its O.K. only if we really want to bring down the standard of living in this county..

Quoting:One thing that can never be denied: military makes jobs.  In fact, the Defense Industry is one of the largest employers in the nation.  That is both direct (making military equipment) and indirect (things like GPS, Computers, Hummers, and etc which came from military research).  In the last 20 years, most of that was spent either in the military, or working for companies like Hughes and Boeing, where the Military was a major purchaser.  And that money spent means jobs.
End Quote

What?..Is that what we really want this country to be and motivated by, war and exploration…what are we, Spain in the 13th century? Haven’t we progressed more than that? Am I supposed to tell my children that they shouldn’t worry about college (because I can’t afford it) or braces or owning their own home, because you’ll get a job at McDonnell Douglas making warplanes? Besides, I live in Long Beach, CA and I can tell you Boeing is doing nothing here but LAYING OFF people, almost 500-1000 at a time.
By the by Hummers are nothing to brag about, like we really need another gas (or diesel) guzzling/polluting SUV on our crowded roads. Military research?  Ha! Is that anything like military intelligence? The history on AM General is that the HumVee wasn't the vehicle the military wanted or asked for, but paid for nonetheless..

Quoting:As I said last night....I agree with ^ for the most part....it's refreshing to FINALLY hear somebody else who tells it like it is...and has the guts to bash Clinton..the moron of the 90's and partially resonsible for morals going out the window....or should I say Under The DeskEnd Quote

No one, but no one, is responsible for morals going out the window than your parents (and you if you are a parent) and your fellow Americans. Clinton is no more responsible for bringing down morals anymore than the parent (that has the ultimate responsibility for teaching it to children) who lets it slide. If you, your parents/elders, church & neighbors do their job then that’s all we can expect or hope for..If you really expect our government official’s private life to be some sort of moral guide, then therein lies the problem with this country, with the exception of Ford, Carter & Truman, the private lives of past presidents have been less than ideal...to say the least. What he did was rotten, no getting around it, but I don’t see teen pregnancy, murder, drug use, cheating, lying or stealing etc., going up statically during or after Molinskygate. All that stuff happened before and is still here now...stop blaming the moral state of this country on Clintons one act, I think the country and the people in it are stronger then that.

Just in case you’re wondering I didn’t vote for Gore or Bush, I think, unfortunately the county gets the leadership it deserves..but I do think that Bush was the worst choice of the two..we’ll need someone more intelligent than Bush, and more gumption than Gore, Dean or Kerry, if those who agree are really serious and really upset then they’ll make the change, but I’m not sure America is ready to do that.

Quoting:
Remember, he illegally stole the election with his brother Jeb.
End Quote

Jesus, Mary & Joseph - give us a break with this.

Quoting:No one, but no one, is responsible for morals going out the window than your parents (and you if you are a parent) and your fellow Americans. Clinton is no more responsible for bringing down morals anymore than the parent (that has the ultimate responsibility for teaching it to children) who lets it slide. If you, your parents/elders, church & neighbors do their job then that’s all we can expect or hope for..If you really expect our government official’s private life to be some sort of moral guide, then therein lies the problem with this country, with the exception of Ford, Carter & Truman, the private lives of past presidents have been less than ideal...to say the least. What he did was rotten, no getting around it, but I don’t see teen pregnancy, murder, drug use, cheating, lying or stealing etc., going up statically during or after Molinskygate. All that stuff happened before and is still here now...stop blaming the moral state of this country on Clintons one act, I think the country and the people in it are stronger then that.End Quote

Well said, gumbypiz.

Quoting:

OK, just HOW did Clinton ruin the economy in the 90’s? …

Yes there are many more jobs saying “now hiring” in the local burger joint or Target/Wal-Mart...

What?..Is that what we really want this country to be and motivated by, war and exploration…

By the by Hummers are nothing to brag about …  

No one, but no one, is responsible for morals going out the window than your parents …

Just in case you’re wondering I didn’t vote for Gore or Bush,...

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Thank the gods on high and below that there are intelligent people left in the United States. There's hope for our poor abused country yet!

gumbypiz thank you very much for your post!!!!!!!!
Zed

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OK, just HOW did Clinton ruin the economy in the 90’s? I’ve heard this said before and don’t see any proof or action that supports this.
Secondly...
...we’ll need someone more intelligent than Bush, and more gumption than Gore, Dean or Kerry, if those who agree are really serious and really upset then they’ll make the change, but I’m not sure America is ready to do that.

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Excellent post.

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 I'm just amazed that most people have absolutely no clue just how corrupt our president is. Just amazing... amazingly sad that people actually think he's doing a good job.

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I couldn't agree more. Yes, I am angry that Bush is running this country into the toilet but I think I am more angry that many people think he is wonderful. I wonder what they will do when they hit 65 and there is no more Social Security or Medicare. Or when the Bill of Rights is just a piece of paper and have absolutely no meaning. I wonder if they will think that Bush is still wonderful when some corperate fat cat takes all of their pension and gets to live lavishly while they have to figure out how to pay the bills (look at the people at Enron). Will they still think he is wonderful when they have to work at least 80 hours a week just to make enough or even to make the same amount that they are making now at 40 hours? (Yes, my friends, he is trying to change the rules for overtime so many white collar workers-yes, the middle class will be denied overtime.)  Well, at least we can go to the Moon or Mars. How nice.  



Cat

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Well, at least we can go to the Moon or Mars. How nice.  

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No matter how much of a political smoke screen this is, further space exploration is extremely important. The survival of future generations depends on the exploration of other planets. That isn't sci-fi, it's a fact. However, if the space program hadn't been cut back in the 70s, there would already be a colony on Mars by now and this issue would be moot.

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No matter how much of a political smoke screen this is, further space exploration is extremely important. The survival of future generations depends on the exploration of other planets. That isn't sci-fi, it's a fact. However, if the space program hadn't been cut back in the 70s, there would already be a colony on Mars by now and this issue would be moot.

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I don't have a problem with space exploration at all-I do have a problem with the timing. After Bush drives the surplus we had 3 years ago into the worst defict this country has ever seen, my question is where is the money to pay for this program going to come from? Social Sercurity? Medicare? If we still had that surplus, I would be for space exploration. I think it is a worth program but I think we need to take care of the people here on Earth first.


Cat

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No matter how much of a political smoke screen this is, further space exploration is extremely important. The survival of future generations depends on the exploration of other planets. That isn't sci-fi, it's a fact. However, if the space program hadn't been cut back in the 70s, there would already be a colony on Mars by now and this issue would be moot.

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Every time an American president has wanted to explore space, it's been a political smokescreen.  Going all the way back to the Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower and the Democrat John F. Kennedy.  Both parties have gone to the space exploration well when they have needed to.  

If you want to get people off the issues, coming up with some plan to send someone to the moon or Mars is a very reliable old diversionary hat trick.  Dubya just doesn't have the charm that JFK did.