Quoting:
If anyone should be put away it should be the parents who leave their kids alone with Michael Jackson.THEY HAVE NO CLUE THAT HE LOVES KIDS? ???
End Quote

It's because he's famous. It doesn't matter that he's been accused in the past (and now) of child molestation.

Quoting:
If anyone should be put away it should be the parents who leave their kids alone with Michael Jackson.THEY HAVE NO CLUE THAT HE LOVES KIDS? ???
End Quote

Sure they know.  They also know his past, and the fact he is worth millions of $$$ too.  

Quoting:
I think he's guilty...at least I hope so.  He paid off that kid in '94 for what reason?  He was innocent :o
End Quote

Reaching a settlement is in no way an admission of guilt.

Hey, how do you know when it's bedtime at the Neverland Ranch?

Quoting:
Reaching a settlement is in no way an admission of guilt.
End Quote

Sure in the hell doesn't make him look innocent though.

Quoting:
A few points I wish to add:

1) Not that I'm defending him personally, but the type of persecution he is presently experiencing is irregular and not in accordance with the typical procedure for child molestation allegations and suspects.

The fact that he is who he is should not be a factor in investigation and procedure. He should be treated just as any other suspect. No worse, no better.

2) The first allegations in the mid 1990's were brought upon by a family who didn't want Jackson prosecuted for his alleged crime, but rather wanted financial compensation.

The family in this case wants Jackson prosecuted to the full extent of the law and punished for his alleged crime. They're not seeking monetary compensation, as far as the news media is concerned.

The second point is hard to dismiss, in my opinion. However, I do have to remind myself that he should be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

He's probably screwed in the court of public opinion.
End Quote

Hairspray,

Normally I would generally agree with you.  But in this case we have a guy who has gone on national TV and said that he sleeps with little children in their bed.  And he is a guy who previously settled a mega-million lawsuit for the same thing, out of court.

Technically speaking in a crime like this, the family does not 'have to' bring criminal charges.  The State always reserves the right to press charges on a crime like this.

The search warrants and the arrest warrant are a matter of public record.  So because of WHO HE IS (a publicity-seeking celebrity, who invites mass quantities of kiddies to his place regularly) the press covering the facts is fair game.

And... yes... he is entitled to a fair trial and is presumed not guilty until convicted.

It is sad  :'( to see what has become of the cute kid with the cool 'fro who sang so long ago, and who matured into a respectful, handsome young man.  We probably will never know what transpired in the late 1980's that turned him into what we see today.

When I see Michael these days I can only think "What Could Have Been" with this talented man.

Quoting:
Hey, what is the punch-line to your joke, Kenny?  :)
End Quote

"The big hand is on the little hand"

What do Michael Jackson and a grocery bag have in common?

Quoting:
Here we go.. tried in public before the court date.

"Grab yer shotgun, maw... weez gonna have 'urselves a good ole fashun linchin'"  :P

End Quote

He's a public figure. Of course people are going to judge him before the facts come out and while I haven't crucified him, the way he's handling this (and the way he handled the other accusation in the early 90's) doesn't make him look good.

The fact that he also admitted to sleeping in the same bed (with no sexual contact) as younger boys doesn't help his case any either.

Quoting:
"The big hand is on the little hand"

What do Michael Jackson and a grocery bag have in common?
End Quote

Heh heh.  :D

I don't know. What do Michael Jackson and a grocery bag have in common?

Quoting:


Heh heh.  :D

I don't know. What do Michael Jackson and a grocery bag have in common?


End Quote

They're both plastic and harmful to children.

Quoting:
Hairspray,

Normally I would generally agree with you.  But in this case we have a guy who has gone on national TV and said that he sleeps with little children in their bed. End Quote

The thing is -

Some psychologists will say that if he had any malicious intentions towards the children or anything to hide, he would never have openly admitted to having sleepovers with minors in the first place.

There are mental cases which involve a mind never "growing up", thus, adults remain in a perpetual state of childhood. His actions, though strange, are mainly strange because he is technically an adult because of his age. If studied further, most of his actions and behaviors may be genuinely child-like, including but not limted to his frivolous spending of money and poor control over his finances to his controversial sleepovers, to even the reality that is the Neverland Ranch.

I'm trying not to jump to conclusions in my judgment of Michael Jackson. The paragraph above does make some sense and it is obvious he has psychological issues.

He is, in my opinion, a very easy target. A simple misunderstanding or miscommunication is lethal to his character, his very person at this point in his life. He is responsible for being in this position, of course, but also his family and friends for not helping him seek the psychological help he's obviously needed throughout his entire life since childhood.

I can't help but feel some pity for the guy, especially knowing he has legitimate unaddressed psychological issues.

The parents of the children left in his care, regardless of the outcome, are to be considered greatly negligent and are guilty for using poor judgment in placing their children in a potentially bad position.

Quoting:
I think its hilarious how CNN has devoted their entire programming today to waiting for Jackson to arrive at the airport. ::)

They have been fixated on the airport for the last 4 hours, and all they got was a glimpse of him going from the car to the door.   :P  And once that happened, the commentators were going into seizures with excitement.
End Quote

What's the name of that song...??

"Dirty little secrets, dirtly little lies.  They can tell you 'bout the plane crash, with a gleam in their eye."  Oh yeah, "Dirty Laundry".  Very true.

What's another one?  "American Dream" sung by Crosby/Stills/Nash?

Quoting:


The thing is -

Some psychologists will say that if he had any malicious intentions towards the children or anything to hide, he would never have openly admitted to having sleepovers with minors in the first place.

There are mental cases which involve a mind never "growing up", thus, adults remain in a perpetual state of childhood. His actions, though strange, are mainly strange because he is technically an adult because of his age. If studied further, most of his actions and behaviors may be genuinely child-like, including but not limted to his frivolous spending of money and poor control over his finances to his controversial sleepovers, to even the reality that is the Neverland Ranch.

I'm trying not to jump to conclusions in my judgment of Michael Jackson. The paragraph above does make some sense and it is obvious he has psychological issues.

End Quote

This is sort of what I said, but more eloquently put. :)

Quoting:


Sure they know.  They also know his past, and the fact he is worth millions of $$$ too.  



End Quote

That's no better than selling their own kids into slavery.

Quoting:
Its being reported that among the evidence are wine and sleeping pills.
End Quote

OMG :o Red wine and sleepeing pills! He must be guilty. No one in America has red wine and sleeping pills in their house ::)

Quoting:They have published deposition of the accusor from 1993.  If this doesn't convince you he's a sicko, nothing will.
End Quote

This doesn't convince me of anything. This is just a statement given to the police. I could give the same statement to the police about you, but that doesn't mean that it's true.

Quoting:
The main people to look at would be the parents of the child/children.  They are the ones responsible for their children, not Michael Jackson.  End Quote

I agree the parents have some questions to answer.  But, that aside, when the kids are at his house, they are his responsibility.  

Just like if your kids have friends over to your house for the night/day, they become your responsibility when they are there.

Quoting:


I agree the parents have some questions to answer.  But, that aside, when the kids are at his house, they are his responsibility.  

Just like if your kids have friends over to your house for the night/day, they become your responsibility when they are there.
End Quote

I agree.  I guess what I was meaning is, they should've put more thought into letting their child/children stay there.  I mean, if he admits to sleeping in the same bed with children, it's only going to bring on problems, whether he's done anything sexually with them or not.  He should've been more careful himself and if he is guilty, he needs to accept that responsibility.

People are going to jump to conclusions no matter what in various situations.  For example, the age old story of a girl dressing provacatively.  Most people would assume she was easy, when in fact she probably just likes the style and would never do anything questionable.  You never know until you ask the person.  The parents should've done their research.

Quoting:


The thing is -

Some psychologists will say that if he had any malicious intentions towards the children or anything to hide, he would never have openly admitted to having sleepovers with minors in the first place.

There are mental cases which involve a mind never "growing up", thus, adults remain in a perpetual state of childhood. His actions, though strange, are mainly strange because he is technically an adult because of his age. If studied further, most of his actions and behaviors may be genuinely child-like, including but not limted to his frivolous spending of money and poor control over his finances to his controversial sleepovers, to even the reality that is the Neverland Ranch.

I'm trying not to jump to conclusions in my judgment of Michael Jackson. The paragraph above does make some sense and it is obvious he has psychological issues.

He is, in my opinion, a very easy target. A simple misunderstanding or miscommunication is lethal to his character, his very person at this point in his life. He is responsible for being in this position, of course, but also his family and friends for not helping him seek the psychological help he's obviously needed throughout his entire life since childhood.

I can't help but feel some pity for the guy, especially knowing he has legitimate unaddressed psychological issues.

The parents of the children left in his care, regardless of the outcome, are to be considered greatly negligent and are guilty for using poor judgment in placing their children in a potentially bad position.
End Quote

Well I was all set to type out the statement I had sent to a friend at work when we were discussing this subject yesterday.  But as I scrolled thru - there was Hairspray saying exactly what I wanted to say - only probably more eloquently than I ever could !!!!

I dont doubt Jacko is a sick sick man and is in dire need psychological help.  But if you compare his actions and words with basically any other paedophile who has ever been caught - well he just comes across as a kid in a mans body - not as a criminal.

Paedophillia is a secret world filled with secret desires.  Men like Gary Glitter nip off to Thailand to fullfill their dirty secret desires.  They join secret little clubs of perverts.  The key word is SECRET.  They are calculating and scheming in their luring of children into their world.  They dont do it on worldwide TV !!

I dont know of any paedophile - famous or non famous - whose court case has been recently publicised - where they publicly went on TV and said "I love kids so much that we play in my fun park and have sleepovers".

At the same time - here we have a celebrity whose personal issues are pretty well publicised on a half hourly basis around the world.  So what parent says to their sick kid "sure huney you can go sleep at Jacko's house".

And aside from all that - we are talking about that little trailer trash kid who was proven to have never actually had cancer and gleefully proclaimed his undying love for Jacko in Bashirs interview this year while standing next to his equally unsick siblings while dining in Jacko's kitchen and utilising all his free amenities.  It was proven that the whole family lied about the "cancer" in order to meet Jacko - so as far as I am concerned that doesnt make them reliable "witnesses" to anything.


If it is proven 100% that Jacko has done anything more than share his second childhood with kids then I will humbley step back and admit defeat but I just dont think it will happen.

PS - I do not admit to being a fan of Jacko's.  I like a few of his songs.  I just think there are real paedophiles out there that all those police could be concentrating on.

Quoting:
Innocent until proven guilty.
End Quote

hahahahaha you are kidding right ?  In this day and age where the media is allow to try you before the jury does ?? ??

And of course we all know the media is "always" right - dont we - hmmm I need a sarcasm smiley. ::)  I'll just roll my eyes instead !

Quoting:
I think Michael Jackson is guilty.  I don't know if in his mind he realizes what he is doing is wrong, I don't want to play amature shrink too much with this guy as nearly everyone likes to do.  But I am convinced the man has done innappropriate things with children.

What surprises me is that some of the most notorious conservative soccer mom types of this message board that think everything and anything is offensive are the ones rushing to Wacko Jacko's defense.  Is it because Jackson is an 80's icon?

Hey I'm one of the most liberal people on this board, but I'm convinced this man has done disgusting stuff with children.  Regardless of his mental state, it's wrong and he should be punished.  
End Quote

And here I'd never thought I'd agree with a liberal :D

Quoting:
I don't want to play amature shrink too much with this guy as nearly everyone likes to do.End Quote

Everyone has a right to their opinions. And how do you know who indeed is or isn't a certified "shrink" in these forums? Remember, not everyone shares everything about themselves in public forums.

Quoting:
But I am convinced the man has done innappropriate things with children.End Quote

Is that because instead of your wanting "to play amature shrink", "as nearly everyone likes to do", you want to play psychic; perhaps, judge and jury?

Quoting:
What surprises me is that some of the most notorious conservative soccer mom types of this message board that think everything and anything is offensive are the ones rushing to Wacko Jacko's defense.End Quote

I had no idea any of our members were some of the most notorious conservative soccer mom types, :o especially the men and women who posted our opinions on this particular subject. ;D

Quoting:
I'm one of the most liberal people on this board, but I'm convinced this man has done disgusting stuff with children.
End Quote

I hope the authorities in charge of his case are less clouded by emotionalism and more objective.

Quoting:
Jermaine Jackson blames this on a "bunch of racist rednecks..." ::)

 
End Quote

I had heard that MJ's lawyer told his family not to talk to the press...now I see why.  Someone needs to put a muzzle on Jermaine.  If MJ is innocent, this type of comment won't help his case. (and I do hope he is innocent)

Quoting:What surprises me is that some of the most notorious conservative soccer mom types of this message board that think everything and anything is offensive are the ones rushing to Wacko Jacko's defense.  Is it because Michael Jackson is an 80's icon?  Like you know how uptight soccer moms/dads put down Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera for being too risque, but at the same time they don't say anything about the way Madonna acted and dressed back in the 80's because Madonna is 45 years old and from the 1980's and that makes it OK. End Quote

Well, there your generalizing, and as a result, wrong.

I'm a conservative, a huge fan of '80s pop culure and music, find Britany Spears and Christina Agulara to be trashy whores, feel Madonna is a washed-up piece of trash, and think Michael "come sleep in my bed little boy" Jackson is as guilty as they come.

So, your generaliztion isnt' completely accurate.


I love and miss the 80s.  And you know what, I was a huge Michael Jackson fan back in the day.  But in the last 10 years, after all the constant freaky things he does and subjects himself to, I find no reason to be a fan anymore.  He has buried himself professionally with all the things he has done (like sleep with little boys), and this former Michale Jackson fan has given up on him.  

...not to mention the fact his music is the last 10 years has tanked horribly. ;)

Quoting:
I don't see how that's possible, as Michael Jackson belongs to no known race, or species even.
End Quote

:D AND I hated back in the early 90's when "In Living Color" did a skit showing him bashing a car window to the tune of "Black and White"....a cop came along and told him he was under arrest, to which he replied "Oh, then I must be black." Jermaine must've written that with help from Al Sharpton and the irreverand jesse jackson ::)

Quoting:
I thought he was Jewish. ???

Howard
End Quote

Nope, he is a Jehovahs Witness...at least he used to be.

Quoting:

:D AND I hated back in the early 90's when "In Living Color" did a skit showing him bashing a car window to the tune of "Black and White"....a cop came along and told him he was under arrest, to which he replied "Oh, then I must be black." Jermaine must've written that with help from Al Sharpton and the irreverand jesse jackson ::)
End Quote

I have a copy of that on video!!  That's a hilarious skit.   ;D

Quoting:
If he was Jewish,He would've been Michael Jacksonowski..... ;D ;)
End Quote

Oi vay..  ::)

Quoting:
Todays news is that his lawyer has released a tape made by jacko of the kids mother raving about what a wonderful person he is and what a great father figure he is and all this other lovely stuff she said about him.  There is also evidence coming forward this is not the first time this kid has tried extorting money fro a celebrity.  Delightful family !!
End Quote

There you go... releasing information to the media a.k.a. "the public".  A prime example of trial in the media.  :P

An interesting development, none-the-less.

Quoting:
So,Is he going to jail or not? ???

Howard
End Quote

He still has to be tried, Howard.  We will know after then, but I have a feeling it will be a long and nasty battle.


I don't know if he is guilty (and I hope he isn't), but I don't think he is right in the head.  It is almost like he stopped growing mentally when he was 10 or 11.  The man needs some serious mental help.

Quoting:
It is almost like he stopped growing mentally when he was 10 or 11.  End Quote

We were discussing this at work yesterday.  We came to the conclusion Jacko has a Mental Age and an Emotional Age.

Our conclusion is based on one of my coworkers who has an adult son with a Mental Age of 11.  His age has been based on his ability to perform simple spelling, math and logic exersizes.

So we felt that Jacko obviously must have a relatively high IQ as he is able to compose music and write songs and choreograph difficult dance moves etc etc.  So his Mental Age is not the issue.

Its his Emotional Age that is to be questioned.  That he feels so safe and trusted with kids and older people (like Liz Taylor) ie "grandparent figures" - whereas we as adults feel comfortable with people our own age.  He appears to have nothing to relate to with people in their late 30s and early 40s unless he is teaching them dance moves.

Secret Squirrel:  Not sure if the stuff that reaches our media is also in your media or not.  Laws differ from state to state and country to country.  For example - during the trial of Martin Bryant - Tasmania's worst ever mass killer - Tassie papers were not allowed to run stories about his background, and weekly magazines were publishing two separate issues so Tassie wasnt reading what we were reading for nearly two years till he was in jail.  Same with South Australias "Bodies in the Barrells" murders.  My South Aussie friend was emailing me for all the news as her papers were not allowed to report on it until after the trial.

So when I am quoting stuff about Jacko that I have read - I actually have no idea whether this stuff is actually in Californian papers or not.  Like - Aussie papers had shown pics and revealed the kids name and that he was in the well known doco - days before I saw it mentioned on most US websites.  How do your laws work with stuff like this ?  Does your media get a blackout at all ?

Quoting:
Maybe he should be put in a Lie Detector Test.It should air live on national TV.That way the whole world will know if he did it or not.sound reasonable? ???

Howard
End Quote

Not really.  Lie detectors can be unreliable...if you are nervous the answers can be skewed.  It isn't very often that they are admissible in court.  Any lawyer worth his $$ can argue that they are wrong.

Quoting:
So now,what are we waiting for?
What is next for Wacko Jacko? ??? >:(

Howard
End Quote

Have patience, Howard my bud.  This will take a long time.  Trust me it is going to be a long drawn out battle.

Quoting:
So now,what are we waiting for?
What is next for Wacko Jacko? ??? >:(

Howard
End Quote

perhaps when he's in prison where he belongs he can sleep with his cell-mate, considering he likes sleeping with boys.



Sorry, but Jackson is dead to me after all this.

Quoting:
I am not sure about the Jacko case, but there are cases of blackout.  Take 9/11 for instance...other countries saw much more footage than they would put on tv here (people jumping, etc) because networks found it too disturbing.
End Quote

Wow - I didnt know that Dagwood - I actually assumed you guys were seeing way more than what we saw.  We saw "everything" -no holds barred.

Quoting:
Nope, they cut alot out.  I am actually glad...I don't know that I would want to see the people falling.  There is one picture that haunts me...it is the guy falling head first.  I don't know why, but that one really gets to me.
End Quote

Dag, my brother was in NYC at a hotel a few blocks away.  He was taking pics and has some of people jumping.  I got sick to my stomach looking at them.

As far as the MJ thing...IMO, I think he has some serious psychological problems.  However, I don't believe he has the "Peter Pan" syndrome that Hairspray alluded to.  He has made some very "adult" choices in his life that someone who truly has "PPS" wouldn't be able to...marriage, children, etc.

As far as his guilt, I believe "where there's smoke, there's fire".  True, a payoff doesn't intimate guilt, but if you are truly innocent, why would you?  Wouldn't you rather go to court and prove your innocence than pay someone off to keep quiet, and have the world question your behavior for the rest of your life?

Someone questioned why they had around 70 cops executing the search warrant?  When you have an area as big as "Neverland" to search, you need that many people.  Yes, normally, they would only have a few doing the search, but the entire ranch is something like 2600 acres, I believe the house is over 10000 sq feet.  That many cops were needed to maximize the time it would take to search.

Quoting:And aside from all that - we are talking about that little trailer trash kid who was proven to have never actually had cancer and gleefully proclaimed his undying love for Jacko in Bashirs interview this year while standing next to his equally unsick siblings while dining in Jacko's kitchen and utilising all his free amenities.  It was proven that the whole family lied about the "cancer" in order to meet Jacko - so as far as I am concerned that doesnt make them reliable "witnesses" to anything.End Quote

not sure were you got this information, but today's AP releases say this "little trailor trash kid's" last kidney is failing and is in need of a transplant, because of his cancer.  He has also had a large tumor removed from his stomach...from cancer....and his 1st kindey and spleen removed.

Quoting:


not sure were you got this information, but today's AP releases say this "little trailor trash kid's" last kidney is failing and is in need of a transplant, because of his cancer.  He has also had a large tumor removed from his stomach...from cancer....and his 1st kindey and spleen removed.
End Quote

My info generally comes from reading my daily paper, popping online to read the east coast papers, followed by the BBC news webpage and CNN and a couple of other US sites.  Then I come in here to read the real news !!!!

So yes I am well aware that each and every paper will report something different - and that "some" reporters are "in general" so low in morals as to actually invent a story.  We have had a magazine reporter here forced to admit she invented a story about Nicole Kidman because she didnt have a story for that weeks edition.

So with that theory in mind I have read in one paper what you have written about about kidney and spleen etc, in 5 papers that he is perfectly healthy and in remission, and in 4 papers that he was never sick to begin with.  So who knows - other than the kid himself !!

Generally this is why I dont believe a whole lot I read in papers.

However the Trailer Trash bit was indeed mine and was based on his appearance in the doco - well more his mother actually as she did fit the title.  Delightful lass that she is !!

Having said that - I have to thank the US for coming up with such a great term as Trailer Trash.  I cant think of any Aussie word that can replace it - possibly bogun - but nowhere near as good !!!!  Now I just need a description of what a "SoccerMom" is so I can see if it matches anything over here !!!!!  maybe we could start a new thread on that !!  It will keep us busy till Jacko's trial starts !!!

Quoting:


Dag, my brother was in NYC at a hotel a few blocks away.  He was taking pics and has some of people jumping.  I got sick to my stomach looking at them.

End Quote

Wow, Cheer.  I can understand why that would make you sick to your stomach...I think it would give me nightmares.  It still makes me want to cry.