Quoting:
And what is even more sweet, is after all the pathetic and blatant attempts at smearing Arnold in the last days of the campaign, Arnold came out on top.
End Quote

The accusations that flew in the last few days were pretty crude and distasteful- they certainly made me think "well, if you felt that bad, why did you wait till now before going public?"  If people thought like me, the whole smear tactic would have been totally counter-productive.

But he's certainly got his work cut out.  Good luck to him.

Phil

Quoting:
I thought Republicans hated hearing the opinions of Hollywood stars?  Only when it sorta syncs in with their own I guess.  This whole thing was all so pathetically partisan.  
End Quote

I think what Republicans hated are smear tactics from celebrities.  They were blatant, personal attacks on people and they were tactless.  There is nothing wrong with opinions.
The LA Times is pathetic.  Didn't quite work out how they wanted it to did it?  LOL

Quoting:
I thought Republicans hated hearing the opinions of Hollywood stars?  Only when it sorta syncs in with their own I guess.  This whole thing was all so pathetically partisan.  
End Quote

If it was so partisan...then why did Davis and Bustamante get soundly thrashed in a predominantly Democrat state?  ;)

Quoting:
If it was so partisan...then why did Davis and Bustamante get soundly thrashed in a predominantly Democrat state?  ;)
End Quote

I think it's because the California Democrats believed their own press that the whole recall thing was a Republican-sponsored ruse - they behaved in a remarkably blinkered way, that appeared from the outside very much like arrogance... I'm not surprised they lost.

That, and the fact that Arnie simply ain't a politician - I hope he manages to stay that way.

Quoting:
That, and the fact that Arnie simply ain't a politician - I hope he manages to stay that way.
End Quote

he said an excellent line last night in his victory speech, something to the effect of "The people win when Politics lose".

That is so correct.

Quoting:
I thought Republicans hated hearing the opinions of Hollywood stars?  Only when it sorta syncs in with their own I guess.  This whole thing was all so pathetically partisan.  
End Quote

You are wrong.

if this was all just a partisan thing by the Republicans, explain how the outcome of the election was so decisive to boot out the Democrat governor in the most Democrat-filled state in the country.

When you have millions and millions of people in a heavily Democrat state wanting this, that says someting.  And its definitely not a partisan effort.

The only thing partisan in this whole thing was the pathetic CA Democrats and the LA Times doing all they could to smear Arnold.  And it all blew up in their face. ;D

Quoting:


If it was so partisan...then why did Davis and Bustamante get soundly thrashed in a predominantly Democrat state?  ;)
End Quote

??? ??? ???I think Bustamante wants to make welcome changes in california,but his campaign was confusing.He was against the recall,but said to vote for him if they wanted it anyway.I thinmk Schwartzenegger made it more clear he didn't like the way things were going in california.That being said,I don't believe Davis was to blame for all of california's problems.The energy thing,for instance.This is a case where there was clearly wrongdoing by the utility companies,and it was enough for the president to order the shenanigans to cease and desist.I doubt Clinton would have allowed that to go on.Cheers!

Quoting:I think Bustamante wants to make welcome changes in california,but his campaign was confusing.End Quote

Bustemante catered to the Latinos and thought by speaking spanish in front of the camera he would win their votes.  He was a non-contendor last night because people realised that.

Quoting:


Bustemante catered to the Latinos and thought by speaking spanish in front of the camera he would win their votes.  He was a non-contendor last night because people realised that.
End Quote

Of course, it did not help that 2 of the organizations he is a member of advocates returning the state of California to Mexico.

Quoting:
To give a perspective to those that do not live in California, this may tell you how it is.

My HALF of the rent for a trashy apartment in a bad area of LA was $450 a month.  The total rent was $950.  ANd that is for a garbage 2 bedroom in a run down building.  Electricity was well over $150 a month.  Water, another $50 a month.  If you smoke, $5 for a pack of cigarettes.  If you want to drive, try $2 to $2.50 for a gallon of gas.  And $120 a month for liability insurance, $300+ per year car registration, and you start to get the idea.End Quote

Thats insane.

And people wonder why Californians want a change. ::)

What is so astounding is that Californians have put up with those sky-high electric bills this long.  Here in Indiana, for the 2 of us in a good-sized 2-br apartment, this summer when the a/c was on a lot plus the basics like washer/drier and all that, our electric bill never passed $55/month.  The first time I get an electric bill for $150 I would be packing my bags and leaving too. >:(

When I think of CA, the first thing that comes to mind is the word: TAXES.  

Quoting:In 2002 I saw my $22 per hour job leave the state.  This had nothing to do with national politics, it was because the taxes were making a lot of companies leave the state.  End Quote

Davis was known for being "Business-Unfreindly", and the businesses responded by leaving.  

Quoting:
I thought Republicans hated hearing the opinions of Hollywood stars?  Only when it sorta syncs in with their own I guess.  This whole thing was all so pathetically partisan.  
End Quote

The conservatives complained when big stars used their fame to preach unsolicited views loudly.  I think it's different when the big star is a political candidate.

Quoting:


The conservatives complained when big stars used their fame to preach unsolicited views loudly.  I think it's different when the big star is a political candidate.
End Quote

I think the problem is when Hollyweird types feel that they are experts in a subject, just because they have played somebody in a movie.

I do not have a problem with an Economist talking about the economy and an environmental scientist talking about polution and the environment.  But when actors and actresses get up in front of a Congressional commitie and talk about such things, there is no basis in fact, it is just them playing another part.

Arnold got up and ran for public office.  Most Hollywood people would rather slit their own throats then put themselves on the line like that.  They would much rather snipe from the background where they are safe.  Not to mention that they get a lot of publicity from such stunts.

I do not mean that they should not do anything like this.  But such appearances should be about something they actually KNOW something about.  When they stood up and argued against music ratings for example (which was an Al Gore sponsored law), they spoke what they know.  But I could not care less about what Jewel thinks about health care or what Sissy Spacek thinks about education.  They are not experts, and know nothing about the issue.

Quoting:I think you're making a huge generalization by saying that it's only because an actor plays a certain role in a movie that they feel qualified to hold an opinion, or even be an expert, on a subject.End Quote

Um... I'm not sure I ever said that.  

Oh wait maybe I did, kind of.  But I was just saying the basic conservative viewpoint, and showing how the conservatives didn't contradict themselves by support Arnold.

Quoting:
I'm glad Schwarzenegger won. The fact that he's not a career politician is probably his saving grace.
End Quote

Exactly.


One of the biggest criticisms of the opposition was that he didn't have political experience.  That was a bit untrue.

Firstly, he has been a political activist and contributor dating back the the Reagan Administraition, so he knows the drill.

But, he has never been an elected politician, and I think this is a great thing.  The main problem with lifelong politicians is that after they have been in the biz for 20-30-40 years they begin to focus on doing things that benifit themselves, rather than their country, or state in this situation.

Arnold's inexperience in politics is an asset, and is a good thing for CA.  Davis proved he was too involved and influenced by special interests.

Quoting:
Arnold's inexperience in politics is an asset, and is a good thing for CA. End Quote

Yes. He knows he will have to work harder too just because of who he is. I really do believe he will do what he can to make a good difference in CA and prove himself worthy.

Quoting:
The main problem with lifelong politicians is that after they have been in the biz for 20-30-40 years they begin to focus on doing things that benifit themselves, rather than their country, or state in this situation.End Quote

Yeap. Career politicians no longer feel the need to make a real difference because people are so used to them being in the game, all they really have to do is play pretend during their campaigns.

Quoting:
This election shows how sick Americans are of politics as usual.  Considering how badly career politicians are perceived as, why not elect movie stars?  And if that doesn't work, we can try electing plumbers.
End Quote

All it shows is that Californians are sick of Gray Davis' constant relationship with special interests and "under-the-table deals" at the expense of the citizens.

For years Liberalism has ruled California, and this election proved that Liberalism is nice in theory, butt not realistic in real life.  The PEOPLE proved that.

...and if a plumber can run a state, then more power to him.  And in this case, if a body-uilder turned actor can run a state, right on.  God knows he can do better than Davis.  Hell my dog can do better than Davis, and she still craps on the carpet from time to time. :D

Quoting:
For years Liberalism has ruled California, and this election proved that Liberalism is nice in theory, butt not realistic in real life.  The PEOPLE proved that.
End Quote

No, I don't think it's proved anything of the sort - all it's proved is that one exponent of Liberalism couldn't modify his policies between good times and bad, and that the people don't respect that.  You get good and bad Liberals in much the same way as you get good and bad Republicans (though maybe in this context I should use "competent" and "incompetent" rather than good or bad)

Phil

Quoting:Hell my dog can do better than Davis, and she still craps on the carpet from time to time. :D
End Quote

..and after a few years of sweeping things under the carpet, it's starting to stink?

PPS - that's a funny name for a dog ;-)

Quoting:
PS
..and after a few years of sweeping things under the carpet, it's starting to stink?

PPS - that's a funny name for a dog ;-)
End Quote

???

Quoting:
???
End Quote

You said:

Quoting:
Hell my dogEnd Quote

...like I say, a funny name for a dog (er.. bitch)...

Though it could cause some fun trying to call her back at the park, I guess ;-)

Quoting:
Something about this thread must have inspired me... The Battle Hymn of the Republicans
End Quote

thats AWESOME! :D

Quoting:
Ahhhhh...Democracy at its best.


The California recall proved that the people can make a change, and in this case, they did.  What is unique about a State election is that every single vote is literally representative of every single unique voter, so there's no question as to whether the election results are of the majority or not.

And what is even more sweet, is after all the pathetic and blatant attempts at smearing Arnold in the last days of the campaign, Arnold came out on top.

The LA Times and CA Democrats are left with egg in their face, possibly from the same batch of eggs that were thrown at Arnold a few weeks ago at a campaign rally.


Go Arnold. :)
End Quote

Indeed!  Nice to see someone win despite the smear campaign.....and all those who say it was partisan and makes them sick are the ones who are still whining about Bush....I didn't whine when clinton was around.  As much as I couldn't stand him being the prez...he was the prez.  Arnold is gov so get over it liberalshttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons/35.gif  BTW...I know many hated Reagan (I didn't) but he was also an actor... Only bad thing is that like Bush...people will try and blame Arnold for the mess made by the last guy...now THAT makes me sick http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons/26.gif

Quoting:

Indeed!  Nice to see someone win despite the smear campaign.....and all those who say it was partisan and makes them sick are the ones who are still whining about Bush....I didn't whine when clinton was around.  As much as I couldn't stand him being the prez...he was the prez.  Arnold is gov so get over it liberals http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons/35.gif Only bad thing is that like Bush...people will try and blame arnold for the mess made by the last guy...now THAT makes me sick http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons/26.gif
End Quote

This doesn't quite make sense. You didn't like Clinton but he was the prez. Ok. But, Davis WAS the gov. Why couldn't people just "get over that"?


I think this entire mess-yes mess- is so ridiculous. Not only is it going to set a precedence that is going to create havic on our electorial system. People are voted in for a term. If they don't like what they are doing, at the end of the term-VOTE THEM OUT!!! Now, we are going to be having recalls all over the place. If that is the case, we should recall that man who did not get the majority who is sitting in the White House right now.

Not only that, you had I don't know how many fools thinking that they could run for governor. How many people were on the ballot? I think over 100. It was just a media circus. So, you get a movie star who eats up the spot light. I think the people of California voted for him because they know his personia-The Terminator who doesn't take crap from anyone. When he decided to run, I said that he did have the popularity to win but not I don't think that he could do the job. I still feel that way. But, time will tell. I just hope that California is not jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.



Cat

Quoting:
You are wrong.

if this was all just a partisan thing by the Republicans, explain how the outcome of the election was so decisive to boot out the Democrat governor in the most Democrat-filled state in the country.

When you have millions and millions of people in a heavily Democrat state wanting this, that says someting.  And its definitely not a partisan effort.

The only thing partisan in this whole thing was the pathetic CA Democrats and the LA Times doing all they could to smear Arnold.  And it all blew up in their face. ;D
End Quote

When it's Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin, Robin Williams, or Robert Redford getting involved, it's the evil Hollywood left.  When it's someone like Bruce Willis or Arnold Scwarchzenegger, suddenly Hollywood actors ain't that bad to Repubs.

Don't be silly, you know that if the situation was reversed and a Hollywood Democrat was running, that Repubs would be on every angry radio talk show in America talking about how unqualified Schwarzenegger is.  And the guy won because he IS "Ah-nuld".  For cryin' out loud, the man didn't even have to say anything.  All he had to do was show up, smile for the cameras, and flex.  Dubya won on a basically similar strategy, i.e.---the less said the better and just shut up and ride your fame and/or family heritage into office.  That and Schwarzenegger was running as a very moderate Republican, who is quite liberal on social issues.

Quoting:


The conservatives complained when big stars used their fame to preach unsolicited views loudly.  I think it's different when the big star is a political candidate.
End Quote

So what?  How's it different?  If Alec Baldwing gives out an opinion, what's the problem?  At least those are most likely his own opinions on the matter.  A guy like Arnold Scwharzenegger, has a group of advisors with him to tell him what to say.

Quoting:


When it's Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin, Robin Williams, or Robert Redford getting involved, it's the evil Hollywood left.  When it's someone like Bruce Willis or Arnold Scwarchzenegger, suddenly Hollywood actors ain't that bad to Repubs.

Don't be silly, you know that if the situation was reversed and a Hollywood Democrat was running, that Repubs would be on every angry radio talk show in America talking about how unqualified Schwarzenegger is.  And the guy won because he IS "Ah-nuld".  For cryin' out loud, the man didn't even have to say anything.  All he had to do was show up, smile for the cameras, and flex.  Dubya won on a basically similar strategy, i.e.---the less said the better and just shut up and ride your fame and/or family heritage into office.  That and Schwarzenegger was running as a very moderate Republican, who is quite liberal on social issues.
End Quote

Sure...and let's just forget about Tom Selleck, Mel Gibson and many others in hollywood NOT whining while mr. bill blew in for 8 long years...I didn't whine either...Liberal actors cry or threaten to "Leave The Country" when they don't get thier way...can you say Alec Baldwin...to the best of my knowledge, he still lives here. Let Arnold try and clean up Gray Davis' mess and then blame him for it...it's typical :P

Quoting:
...and if a plumber can run a state, then more power to him.  And in this case, if a body-uilder turned actor can run a state, right on.  God knows he can do better than Davis.  Hell my dog can do better than Davis, and she still craps on the carpet from time to time. :D
End Quote

I didn't know we could use such bad language on a family message board.  Remember,---morals, decency, and wholesome cheery family values is what it's all about.  That includes language.  ;)    

Quoting:

Sure...and let's just forget about Tom Selleck, Mel Gibson and many others in hollywood NOT whining while mr. bill blew in for 8 long years...I didn't whine either...Liberal actors cry or threaten to "Leave The Country" when they don't get thier way...can you say Alec Baldwin...to the best of my knowledge, he still lives here. Let Arnold try and clean up Gray Davis' mess and then blame him for it...it's typical :P
End Quote

Well ofcourse Bill Clinton was going to be brought up in any discussion on current issues.  Look Clinton lied about cheating on his wife and having sex, he didn't make up phony excuses for pre-emptively attacking another country and use emotional blackmail (September 11th) to achieve that goal.  

Quoting:


Well ofcourse Bill Clinton was going to be brought up in any discussion on current issues.  Look Clinton lied about cheating on his wife and having sex, he didn't make up phony excuses for pre-emptively attacking another country and use emotional blackmail (September 11th) to achieve that goal.  
End Quote

Point taken, Chris....I just feel how I feel and I do respect your opinion as well...BTW, Welcome to this awesome board :D

Quoting:


I didn't know we could use such bad language on a family message board.  Remember,---morals, decency, and wholesome cheery family values is what it's all about.  That includes language.  ;)   End Quote

 

Say what?

What "bad" language was so offensive?

Hell?
Craps?


::) ::) ::)

Quoting:


I think the problem is when Hollyweird types feel that they are experts in a subject, just because they have played somebody in a movie.

I do not have a problem with an Economist talking about the economy and an environmental scientist talking about polution and the environment.  But when actors and actresses get up in front of a Congressional commitie and talk about such things, there is no basis in fact, it is just them playing another part.

Arnold got up and ran for public office.  Most Hollywood people would rather slit their own throats then put themselves on the line like that.  They would much rather snipe from the background where they are safe.  Not to mention that they get a lot of publicity from such stunts.

I do not mean that they should not do anything like this.  But such appearances should be about something they actually KNOW something about.  When they stood up and argued against music ratings for example (which was an Al Gore sponsored law), they spoke what they know.  But I could not care less about what Jewel thinks about health care or what Sissy Spacek thinks about education.  They are not experts, and know nothing about the issue.
End Quote

With all due respect sir, this is one of the silliest things I've ever read.  Are you serious?  Must everyone who voices an opinion on a subject be a full fledged expert in that field?  Must you have a Ph.d in economics to comment on it?  Can only Roger Ebert voice his opinions on movies?  You can't either because you didn't study film at college?  Can only folks that played in the NFL be allowed to have an opinion?  

And politics IS all about "playing a part" as you accuse the Hollywood liberlas of doing.  That's exactly what Arnold did, be a showman and use his fame and popularity into office.  The guy has barely said anything about any issues during this whole thing.

Though honestly, I as much as I've wailed on him, I really do hope "Ah-nuld" does well and turns that state around if he can.  He has a great team of advisors around him, and that's probably all he needs.  His charm and charisma might be just the right prozac that California needs right now.  I've said before that I'm not a fan of Ronald Reagan, but the man's charisma undeniably made people feel a whole lot better about themselves after the misery of the 1970's.  

Quoting:
When it's Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin, Robin Williams, or Robert Redford getting involved, it's the evil Hollywood left.  When it's someone like Bruce Willis or Arnold Scwarchzenegger, suddenly Hollywood actors ain't that bad to Repubs.
End Quote

No.

I think you missed the boat on this one.


The problem I have with celebrities preaching to us about how we should live and so forth hit its pinnacle during the days before the Iraq war.

You had the likes of Martin Sheen, Barbra Striesand, and Sean Penn standing there in front of the cameras preaching about this and that.  And then they had the audacity to claim their right to free speech was being hindered and that they were being "silenced".  All this while standind on stage in front of CNN camera preaching to the world audience of millions of people.  If thats not free speech I don't know what is.

Its the hypocrasy of their preaching that ticked me off.  

Quoting:
With all due respect sir, this is one of the silliest things I've ever read.  Are you serious?  Must everyone who voices an opinion on a subject be a full fledged expert in that field?  Must you have a Ph.d in economics to comment on it?  Can only Roger Ebert voice his opinions on movies?  You can't either because you didn't study film at college?  Can only folks that played in the NFL be allowed to have an opinion?
End Quote

Yes, I am very serious.  You have to understand, I am not talking about actors and actresses from a glass bubble looking in.  I have worked in the industry itself for several years.  A great many of them have a hyper-inflated view of themselves and their own importance.

A great many of them have no real idea who they themselves are.  They follow trends and fads because they are popular, not because they really believe in them.  Their own publicists get them involved in a great many things they have no idea about.  Then they use that for publicity, that simple.

"Limousine Liberal" is the perfect term for many of them.  Barbara Streisand had a HUGE mansion complex that she largely lived in by herself (along with her servants).  She also banked a lot of her money offshore, at the same time as she complained about the rich getting richer, and that they do not pay enough in taxes.  That is hypocracy at it's finest.  (And yes, I have done work in that complex, it was truely massive and furnished beyond belief - over 20 individual "cabins", each larger then any house I ever lived in).

Quoting:
And politics IS all about "playing a part" as you accuse the Hollywood liberlas of doing.  That's exactly what Arnold did, be a showman and use his fame and popularity into office.  The guy has barely said anything about any issues during this whole thing.

Though honestly, I as much as I've wailed on him, I really do hope "Ah-nuld" does well and turns that state around if he can.  He has a great team of advisors around him, and that's probably all he needs.  His charm and charisma might be just the right prozac that California needs right now.  I've said before that I'm not a fan of Ronald Reagan, but the man's charisma undeniably made people feel a whole lot better about themselves after the misery of the 1970's.  
End Quote

At least one thing about Arnold, he put his money where his mouth was.  He took a chance and actually ran for office.  Sonny Bono, Fred Grandy, and Arnold all took the same chance.  This is much different from those that snipe and attack from the safety of the sidelines, and never step into politics themselves.

Quoting:
A foreigner's-eye view:

That, and the fact that Arnie simply ain't a politician -

What a weird concept. It's not like politicians are some sort of alien race that need to be replaced as soon as possible with human beings.
"Politician" is a JOB description, and if you're a senator, a representative, a President, or any other elected official, then your, uh, a politician BY DEFINITION, whether or not you were in the movie predator.


The reason the Dems lost is because they were idiots about campaigning. A good ad might have been:
"Would you let Arnold Schwarzenegger perform surgery on you?"

"Would you let Arnold Schwarzenegger fix your car?"

If your answer to either of the above questions was "No, he's an actor, not a doctor or car mechanic" maybe you'd better start asking yourself
if you really want him to govern your state.


Of course, it's hard to sound byte that.


End Quote

Quoting:
What a weird concept. It's not like politicians are some sort of alien race that need to be replaced as soon as possible with human beings.
"Politician" is a JOB description, and if you're a senator, a representative, a President, or any other elected official, then your, uh, a politician BY DEFINITION, whether or not you were in the movie predator.
End Quote

By taking part in the process of politics, he has become a politician: but at the election, that was not how he was seen by the electorate as a whole, hence my comment.

In becoming part of the morass of politics, he will become in the eyes of the people he represents less honest, more corrupt and generally a lower life-form than he previously was: so he loses that lustre which got him elected in the first place.  If he manages to deliver, then he might get re-elected because of his record (hell, if he turns the Californian economy around, then there probably will be a right-wing Austrian running another country for the second time in history... not that the first time round was a particularly good example  :o)

Phil

Quoting:


Yes, I am very serious.  You have to understand, I am not talking about actors and actresses from a glass bubble looking in.  I have worked in the industry itself for several years.  A great many of them have a hyper-inflated view of themselves and their own importance.

A great many of them have no real idea who they themselves are.  They follow trends and fads because they are popular, not because they really believe in them.  Their own publicists get them involved in a great many things they have no idea about.  Then they use that for publicity, that simple.

"Limousine Liberal" is the perfect term for many of them.  Barbara Streisand had a HUGE mansion complex that she largely lived in by herself (along with her servants).  She also banked a lot of her money offshore, at the same time as she complained about the rich getting richer, and that they do not pay enough in taxes.  That is hypocracy at it's finest.  (And yes, I have done work in that complex, it was truely massive and furnished beyond belief - over 20 individual "cabins", each larger then any house I ever lived in).


At least one thing about Arnold, he put his money where his mouth was.  He took a chance and actually ran for office.  Sonny Bono, Fred Grandy, and Arnold all took the same chance.  This is much different from those that snipe and attack from the safety of the sidelines, and never step into politics themselves.


End Quote

WELL said....THAT should bring some more whining.....BTW....if alec, babs OR God forbid "Nosey" rosie ever ran and won the presidency...I will leave the country....(I'll keep my word, un-like alec)