Quoting:Do you like making Jewish jokes?  End Quote

As a matter of fact, I do.  I have Jewish friends who laugh at them.  I have Jewish friends who tell them.  And I dream of a day where I can make racist jokes and everyone can laugh and no one will even consider the idea that I actually believe in such stereotypes.

Quoting:
"Political correctness" has lost all meaning, in my opinion.  End Quote

Exactly.

Political Correctness started out as something usefull, and has evolved into this never-ending deletion of words that supposedly "offend" everyone and their brother.  I once heard an ACLU attorney actually say "if it offends a Bulgarian 3 minutes off the boat, it must be removed...".  What he was basically saying, is that if anyone might be offended by something, no matter how small or subtle, Political Correctness will remove it.  That to me is absurd.

To get an idea of just how utterly stupid and rampant Political Correctness has become, read the book "Language Police", it is about the volumes of so-called "offensive" words that are now being deleted from school texbooks.  Among them are "housewife"(considered sexist), and "founding fathers"(considered sexist) ::).

Political Correctness is out of control, and it will only get worse.

Quoting:
I think people should be PC if they want, but they shouldn't change books.  Has anyone read Fahrenheit 451?  Are they going to be burning the books that offend people next?
End Quote

Lets hope not, although Junior has tried to suppress publication of a not to flattering biograph.  Often times, authors use "obnoxious" language to convey an inpression, or a feeling for the times.  For example, a novel on slavery that had overseers calling slaves "black people" or "African Americans" would come off sounding rather strange.

Quoting:Often times, authors use "obnoxious" language to convey an inpression, or a feeling for the times.  For example, a novel on slavery that had overseers calling slaves "black people" or "African Americans" would come off sounding rather strange.
End Quote

A good example of that is "Huck Finn".

We read it in school when I was 7-8th grade I beleive, and nowadays, they don't allow it in that same school because the "PC Crowd" got ahold of and yanked it from the shelf, and from the mandatory reading list.  That I think is sad and ridiculous.

The biggest problem I guess I have with those who are dead-set on making everything PC is that they try to act as if they are speaking on behalf of the majority of people within the groups they are supposedly trying to "protect".  When in fact, its usually not the case at all.

Political Correctness sucks.  Oops, I mean to say "Political Correctness creates a vacuum of air similar to that of a vacuum cleaner".  Don't want to offend anyone. :D ;)

Quoting:
Political Correctness sucks.  Oops, I mean to say "Political Correctness creates a vacuum of air similar to that of a vacuum cleaner".  Don't want to offend anyone. :D ;)
End Quote

LMAO


BTW, just curious, what is your ethnic background?



Cat

Quoting:BTW, just curious, what is your ethnic background?End Quote

My ancestors are Irish immigants.  My ancestry is basically a direct line of descent landing smack-dab...in Leprechaun Land. :D

I'm just your typical Irish guy with the red hair, green eyes,  and the pale white skin to prove it. ;D


Just think of Conan O'Brien, but only not as tall.  And you got me in a nutshell. :)

Quoting:I live in a part of England that isn't really metropolitan. This causes some problems. Some people call black people 'coloured' and I was told that this could, even though said in good faith, could be interpreted as offensive because you are robbing a black person of his sense of identity.End Quote

My grandparents still say things like "colored" when referring to black people.  They aren't racist by any means and they don't mean any disrespect, but its just what they are used to saying.  And they live out in the country and I think that has something to do with it.

I, on the other hand, live in the city and learned right away what you can and cannot say to people, and everytime I hear my grandparents say "colored guy" I think to myself "these people wouldn't last one day in the city". :)

Quoting:Words in themselves are not racist.  Concepts are racist.
End Quote

Excellent point.  Political Correctness also creates a Double Standard.

Words are words.  And words can carry a different meaning based on the tone and attitude of the person who says them.  (for example:  when a black person says ni**er its just a word, but when a white person says it they are instantly labeled a "racist")


I predict that in 100 years, the same words that are now being changed in the name of "Political Correctness" will be changed again, or back to the originals who knows, to satisfy the new crop of "PC freaks" in the next century.

Quoting:
And i'm sure everyone will agree that Gangsta Rap's adoption of the term 'n*gga' has at least lessened its negative impact a little bit.
End Quote

It seems like the older white people(I am white though)use the "n" word sometimes. I'm kinda shocked when I hear them say it. Thats like sounds like something from the 60's: the "n" word. I don't hear it from white people in their 20's and 30's at all. About the rappers saying it most rap music has become so watered down it just doesn't mean anything anymore but thats another topic for another board. When I describe people now I sometimes say oh that black guy or girl or that white guy. There's so many ethicities now that you have to describe people some how. When i say black guy or black girl I don't mean anything racist I'm just describing somebody. It kinda amazes me I actually say white guy now.

Quoting:
Everything in moderation, including moderation. ;) :P
End Quote

;)

Quoting:
I understand why black people are called niggers but why are they called 'coons'? I've heard the expression before but never understood the significance.
End Quote

It goes back to the time of slavery. When a person tried to escape, he/she was hunted like a racoon. Just like racoons at night, you can basically see only their eyes.


Cat

Quoting:
It goes back to the time of slavery. When a person tried to escape, he/she was hunted like a racoon. Just like racoons at night, you can basically see only their eyes. End Quote

Wow. Thank you very much for the info, CatwomanofV. I understand now.  :)

Quoting:

It seems like the older white people(I am white though)use the "n" word sometimes. I'm kinda shocked when I hear them say it. Thats like sounds like something from the 60's: the "n" word. I don't hear it from white people in their 20's and 30's at all. About the rappers saying it most rap music has become so watered down it just doesn't mean anything anymore but thats another topic for another board. When I describe people now I sometimes say oh that black guy or girl or that white guy. There's so many ethicities now that you have to describe people some how. When i say black guy or black girl I don't mean anything racist I'm just describing somebody. It kinda amazes me I actually say white guy now.
End Quote

Keep in mind those older people come from another era.  I mean no offense now to anyone reading this who may fall in the age bracket, and I don't mean to be offensive to anyone by calling you guys "older people' either.  But lets face it, if you can remember an America when segregation was around then you might very well have been influenced by those times.  I once knew a man in his mid or late 50s that was praising a black guy for his good manners and said that this black man was just like "the respectful and courteous negroes from the old days".  I was so shocked that he said that, he was giving the black guy a compliment and he had ZERO comprehension of how ancient and bigoted he sounded.

People in their 20s and 30s grew up in the Late 20th century, during the 70s, 80s, and/or 90s.  A time when racism was at least publicly frowned upon and kids were taught to get along with each other despite their differences. So obviously they would be less likely to use "the n word" or have the same type of prejudices that the Silent Generation and the Baby Boom Generation do.  

Quoting:
I understand why black people are called niggers but why are they called 'coons'? I've heard the expression before but never understood the significance.
End Quote

This to me is a perfect example !  Here in my country a group of indigenous persons is protesting at the fact there is a brand of cheese called "Coon" cheese.  they consider it to be an insult and derogatory. (* refer below)

The name of the cheese does not have any relationship to comment regarding race, however, said persons are USING this as an issue to advance the political boat that they are wanting to row.

THIS is why PC has gone too far, because purely and simply on this issue, someone should just be able to say - "There is no relastionship in this matter, stop wasting everbody's time".  Instead the media gloms onto it because it is a good muck-raking story, and it drags on and on and on...... :(


* In my opinion, it can only be derogatory if there is an obvious or provable link between the use of the word and the brand name.....

But the PC police all recoil in shock and horror and say "How terrible, it MUST be changed immediately".

Commonsense flies out the window so fast your head spins....

Quoting:
The name of the cheese does not have any relationship to comment regarding race, however, said persons are USING this as an issue to advance the political boat that they are wanting to row.
End Quote

i.e. just because in one of its possible uses a word becomes derogatory, the word must therefore be banned in its entirety...

I guess one of the most extreme examples must be the word "Boy" which has been outlawed in South Africa, as it was used by the Whites there while in power in an intentionally demeaning way... but it does leave the rather odd situation of not being able to describe ones male children as "boys" :-/

What gets my goat most about some of the more idiotic extremes of political correctness is the way I can be told that the language I use is insulting or demeaning, when there is no slur or insult intended - it used to a common argument between my sister and myself, as I would not agree to be told which words I can or can't use:- if someone takes offence from a particular use of vocabulary where there was none in the way it was intended, then surely that is their problem, not mine.

Phil

Quoting:
There is a fabulous film (and I can't remember the name for the life of me) about this 2nd or 3rd grade teacher who was teaching her class about racism. It took place in the 60s right after Martin Luther King was murdered. One of the kids asked "why they killed a king". She split the class into two-those with brown eyes and those with blue eyes. She put all the kids with the brown eyes in front and those with blue eyes in back. She then made praising comments to those with the brown eyes and nasty remarks to those with blue eyes. This went on for the rest of the day. The next day, she reversed it. The blue-eyed kids were being praised and sitting in the front and the ones with brown eyes were in back. She was being interviewed for this film and said that the kids even brought this out on the playground. The ones who were in "front" were teasing those in "back." It was a very powerful lesson and just as powerful film-I just wish that I could remember what it called.


Cat
End Quote

Yeah I remember that experiment.  I believe the lady started doing the experiment in the 60s, but she also did it later.  Fairly recently sometime in the 90s.  People had the same reaction.  I wish I could remember the name of the lady or the expermient too.  But she tried to show how constatnly demeaning a group of people and making them "less of a human being" had severe pyschological affects on them, and made them more angry and disruptive.  She also tried to show how basiclaly all whites, even with good hearts and well intentions, are automatically conditioned to believe of themselves as  "superior" and "normal", while everyone who isn't a white Anglo is looked at as being "ethnic" and different by default.   Or something like that, I don't remember what she said verbatim.  She was a white woman who hated bigotry and she said she was upset with herself because she knew she had her own prejudices and bigotries that are conditioned by society.  You can't escape it, everyone has a little bit of it.

I tend to believe that political correctness has it's uses and it's abuses as some others have said.  PC definately has it's absurdities.  Overall though, I'd rather live in a world where it is frowned upon to have a lawn more sprinkler with a cardboard cut out of happy faced smiling black guy.  That stuff is just sick.  The Mark Twain novel "Huck Finn" should NOT be edited for PC reasons.  It was written that way and it would lose it's impact if it were edited for modern times.  Editing "Huck Finn" is an example of PC going out of control.  But conversely if you're upset because want to go around calling people "n*ggers" or "chinks" and you can't because of PC,......well I think you're just an a$$hole.    

Quoting:But conversely if you're upset because want to go around calling people "n*ggers" or "chinks" and you can't because of PC,......well I think you're just an a$$hole.    
End Quote

I hope my harsh objection to Political Correctness doesn't give you the impression that I am what you described above, because that is definitely not the case.

Quoting:

Overall though, I'd rather live in a world where it is frowned upon to have a lawn more sprinkler with a cardboard cut out of happy faced smiling black guy.  That stuff is just sick.  

End Quote

Eh?

Quoting:


People in their 20s and 30s grew up in the Late 20th century, during the 70s, 80s, and/or 90s.  A time when racism was at least publicly frowned upon and kids were taught to get along with each other despite their differences. So obviously they would be less likely to use "the n word" or have the same type of prejudices that the Silent Generation and the Baby Boom Generation do.  
End Quote

Some of us, Chris, in the baby boom generation (I'm 57) were active in the Civil Rights movement.  No, I never "went south", but racism was very alive and active in New Jersey, where I went to college. And, athough I'm Puerto Rican, and light skinned) I also have experienced racism, and it ain't pretty.

I agree that obvious expressions of racism are declining - a good thing - and the attitudes of young people and changing, but where I teach the "student ethos" is that it's ok for a black woman to date a white man, but not ok for a black man to date a white woman, so there is still a ways to go.  Clearly, these things take time, and good will.

And no offense at the age reference.

Quoting:



* In my opinion, it can only be derogatory if there is an obvious or provable link between the use of the word and the brand name.....

But the PC police all recoil in shock and horror and say "How terrible, it MUST be changed immediately".

Commonsense flies out the window so fast your head spins....
End Quote

I don't know of any derogatory names for Austrailians (there may be some) but in any case, if you have never been refered to with a slur, it might be hard to understand what the fuss is all about.  It does sap one's self esteem, and does make one feel excluded.  Been there, done that, didn't like it.

Quoting:


I hope my harsh objection to Political Correctness doesn't give you the impression that I am what you described above, because that is definitely not the case.
End Quote

No, I don't think it is the case.  And I do agree that PC can get out pf hand.  BUT, if you "white folks" (and the Irish were not always considered white) understood how what you see as just cultural slang had a negetive impact on others, and the impression it might leave them with, you might be a bit more sensetive and selective with your word usage.

Quoting:


I don't know of any derogatory names for Austrailians (there may be some) but in any case, if you have never been refered to with a slur, it might be hard to understand what the fuss is all about.  It does sap one's self esteem, and does make one feel excluded.  Been there, done that, didn't like it.
End Quote

DC, whilst I DO understand where you are coming from (I have phsyical attributes that are ridiculed - so please don't assume me on not being able to understand) - I understand it is not race, but there are other forms of discrimination that are just as cutting.....

And for that matter I might add, get a loss less attention than the race issue but to the owner of the problem,are just as hurtful....

And yes Aussies have derogatory names.  Why would we be exempt ?  

You missed or avoided my point.  So I shall repeat my point, which was :

There are a number of people who USE PC to stir up trouble.  Please look closely at my post.

I was not saying all PC is bad.  I am saying it is bad when misused.

FB  :)

Quoting:
Okay, I'm sure I'm going to get slammed for this, but I personally think political correctness is a crock of dung.  What others have said about it creating deeper voids between races, sex, etc. is right.  Why is it not okay to call someone the "N word" (which I despise by the way)or a "spic" or whatever, but it's okay to call a white person a "cracker" or a "gringo"?  It seems that there is a double standard.  I HAVE been called derogatory names by minorities, and it has been dismissed, but GOD FORBID I would retaliate and call THEM a derogatory name.  I'd be termed a racist.  

The political correctness "police" assume that something is offensive to the whole, when it just may be a few that it offends, or noone at all.  As an example, some African Americans get offended if you call them a black person, while others are offended at the term "African American." (I have a friend who is black, who is offended because she considers herself an American)  Pretty soon, if it keeps going on and on, we will be calling each other XX & XY (for the chromosomes) because no other term will be considered PC.  Woman and female are out so as not to offend women's libbers, "boy" has a derogatory meaning attached, and I can't think of any other terms to describe the genders.

P.S.  Why are comedians exempt from PC?  Well, minority ones...Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc all get to make fun of caucasians, but it's not acceptable vice versa?
End Quote

I agree 100% with the entire post.

There is a gross double standard regarding language and words and who "can" and "cannot" use them.

And your point about the PC police assuming things are offensive to the whole when in many cases its not, is an excellent point.  I too have a friend I used to work with who is black and he absolutely hates it when other black people demand to be called "African-Americans".  Because like he said, they aren't African, yes they have African ancestors, but they are American.  On the same note, I wouldn't call myself an Irish-American simply because my ancestors were from Ireland.  Call me and American.

Quoting:
BUT, if you "white folks" (and the Irish were not always considered white)End Quote

Hmm! Interesting. I'm not suggesting there are no black irish people but why were the Irish not considered white? Did they derive from somewhere else?

I may seem thick asking these questions but I do not like to pretend I know everything. I have learned lots of miscellaneous stuff on the boards - thanks for the answers.

Quoting:BUT, if you "white folks" (and the Irish were not always considered white) understood how what you see as just cultural slang had a negetive impact on others, and the impression it might leave them with, you might be a bit more sensetive and selective with your word usage.
End Quote

well, us "white folks" do understand that some words can be hurtful.  But, like I said earlier, its the double standard of PC that bothers me to no end.

I do find it interesting you narrowed it down to us "white folks" as the ones who need to "be a bit more sensetive and selective with your word usage."  It applies to everyone, not just us "white folks".

Quoting:
Overall though, I'd rather live in a world where it is frowned upon to have a lawn more sprinkler with a cardboard cut out of happy faced smiling black guy.      
End Quote

Are you talking about those little figurines that people have in their front lawn where the guy (usually black) is holding up a lantern? Most people call these "lawn jockeys." The funny thing is that most people think that they are a racial slur when actually they started as "stations" in the underground railroad. When someone saw those lawn jockeys, they knew it was a safe house. Now, they are thought upon as derogitory.


Cat

Quoting:
Are you talking about those little figurines that people have in their front lawn where the guy (usually black) is holding up a lantern? Most people call these "lawn jockeys." The funny thing is that most people think that they are a racial slur when actually they started as "stations" in the underground railroad. When someone saw those lawn jockeys, they knew it was a safe house. Now, they are thought upon as derogitory.


Cat
End Quote

that is a good point reagarding the "lawn Jockey" statues.  I recall a year or so ago where a city (I can't remember where), wanted to ban them, because a certain "civil rights" group considered them racist.

I am trying to find an article about it, but haven't had any luck as of yet.  I just remember hearing about it on the news.

Quoting:
I found a site that gives the history.


http://mountainhomeplace.com/jocko.htm

Cat
End Quote

Excellent link Cat,  Very informative.

I couldn't find a link to any article about the town that banned the Lawn Jockeys, but I did find an editorial showing the fact that even some black people don't know the history of them at all.  

The articale covers a lot of issues, but the line that stood out was this:  "So, I shrug off my neighbors' Confederate flag flying and their darkly painted lawn jockeys. They have a right to display their lack of taste or sensitivity.".  And this was written by a black woman.



Here's the whole editorial:  http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2002/06/05/loc_smith_amos_cross.html

Quoting:
Yeah.  I just read the link that CatWomanV posted.  Am i missing something?  Why do people find them offensive?
End Quote

Ignorrance.

Pardon me for being blunt, but its based purely on ignorrance  of history.

Lawn Jockeys are a symbol that represents the ending of slavory, yet the majority of black see them as a symbol of racism.  Simply because A.) they haven't bothered to investigate its history and B.) becuase all they see is a statue of a black person, and they automatically relate it to a racial symbol.  and C.) because certain leaders of certain groups have instilled in them that they should find things such as Lawn Jockeys offensive, despite what their meaning used to be (eh hem I'm looking at you Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson >:()

As long as people continue to profit off of racism (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton), even if the subject isnt racist at all(Lawn Jockeys), racism will never die.

Quoting:
As long as people continue to profit from racism (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton), even if the subject isnt racist at all(Lawn Jockeys), racism will never die.
End Quote

Sad, but true: IMO it's a real shame that things like the Lawn Jockies (which I must admit I'd never heard of before this thread, thanks Catwoman) have had their meaning completely twisted by people who've not had the common decency to research what they're complaining about...

Phil

Quoting:


DC, whilst I DO understand where you are coming from (I have phsyical attributes that are ridiculed - so please don't assume me on not being able to understand) - I understand it is not race, but there are other forms of discrimination that are just as cutting.....

And for that matter I might add, get a loss less attention than the race issue but to the owner of the problem,are just as hurtful....

And yes Aussies have derogatory names.  Why would we be exempt ?  

You missed or avoided my point.  So I shall repeat my point, which was :

There are a number of people who USE PC to stir up trouble.  Please look closely at my post.

I was not saying all PC is bad.  I am saying it is bad when misused.

FB  :)
End Quote

You are absolutely right.  Prejudice expresses itself in may ways and against many people.  and I agree that PC can be misused.  I guess I would have to ask "who is to  decide when that line has been crossed?"  Why would a firm want to name its cheese "coon", for example?  If there is some local significance, ok, like "swiss"  but this seems either unthinking and obscure, or insulting.  I guess I don't get why a firm would chose such a name.

On a more basic level, you seem rather upset with my post.  Please be ashured that I ment no affront or insult, either to you personally or to Austrailians in general.  Just trying to raise issues and express views, not looking for a fight.  Sorry if I offended.

Quoting:
Okay, I'm sure I'm going to get slammed for this, but I personally think political correctness is a crock of dung.  What others have said about it creating deeper voids between races, sex, etc. is right.  Why is it not okay to call someone the "N word" (which I despise by the way)or a "spic" or whatever, but it's okay to call a white person a "cracker" or a "gringo"?  It seems that there is a double standard.  I HAVE been called derogatory names by minorities, and it has been dismissed, but GOD FORBID I would retaliate and call THEM a derogatory name.  I'd be termed a racist.  

The political correctness "police" assume that something is offensive to the whole, when it just may be a few that it offends, or noone at all.  As an example, some African Americans get offended if you call them a black person, while others are offended at the term "African American." (I have a friend who is black, who is offended because she considers herself an American)  Pretty soon, if it keeps going on and on, we will be calling each other XX & XY (for the chromosomes) because no other term will be considered PC.  Woman and female are out so as not to offend women's libbers, "boy" has a derogatory meaning attached, and I can't think of any other terms to describe the genders.

P.S.  Why are comedians exempt from PC?  Well, minority ones...Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc all get to make fun of caucasians, but it's not acceptable vice versa?
End Quote

You ask some very good questions, and make some very good points - and I appologize for using "gringo".  But you must realize that it is the dominant group that assigns lables to those they consider "beneith" them (I'm not accusing you of this).  Black people didn't invent nigg*r, and Puerto Ricans didn't invent Spik, nor the Irish 150 years ago Mik etc.  These terms were invented by good Anglo-Saxon Protestants (ASPs) and assigned to us.  Now, when we protest, we are told we are being too sensitive.

Well why do we, any of us, need to be identified by race or ethnisity?  Instead of "Black Doctor (I can't remember his name) discovered blood transfusions...(and bled to death after, I think a car accident because he couldn't get into a white hospital to get one), why can't it just be "brilliant MD "Sam Smith" discovered...."?  Why is it "Female Astonaught... repaired the Hubbel..."?  

My point is, obviously, that we need to focus on what individuals accomplish, and not on their race or their gender.  When these issues are relevant (Carlos Santana's new album is a fantastic blending...) then we are talking about culture.  Otherwise, these references are about "Gee, even these darkies get good sometimes..." or "geeze, SOME of these women got the right stuff".

I'm not trying to offend, but you have to realize that the affronts to the disadvantaged permiate our discourse much more than the "average" Anglo-Saxon can know.

Quoting:


I agree 100% with the entire post.

There is a gross double standard regarding language and words and who "can" and "cannot" use them.

And your point about the PC police assuming things are offensive to the whole when in many cases its not, is an excellent point.  I too have a friend I used to work with who is black and he absolutely hates it when other black people demand to be called "African-Americans".  Because like he said, they aren't African, yes they have African ancestors, but they are American.  On the same note, I wouldn't call myself an Irish-American simply because my ancestors were from Ireland.  Call me and American.
End Quote

That is certainly a fine attitude, but let me remind you, first, that none of your ancestors were dragged out of Irelan in chains.  Let me also remind you that many people of European extraction have formed numerous ____-American clubs to celebrate their ethnicity (there is an Italian-American club very bear my town).  

I'm reminded of an event at my college, where the speaker asked our students how their ethnic heritage infuenced theit daily lives.  One Student wrote that he wasn't sure.  He was Irish and Italian, though, and he sur loved his Guinnes with his pasta.

I guess the question here boils down to be, are we a "melting pot" or a "salad Bowl"?  and which should we be.  I think "salad bowl".

Quoting:


That is certainly a fine attitude, but let me remind you, first, that none of your ancestors were dragged out of Irelan in chains.  Let me also remind you that many people of European extraction have formed numerous ____-American clubs to celebrate their ethnicity (there is an Italian-American club very bear my town).  End Quote

It's not just those of European ancestry that have done this.  There are clubs for ALL ethnicities.  There is a Mexican American club in the next town over from me.  I have no problem with people celebrating their nationality, but I DO have a problem with the double standard.  I could be prohibited from joining an Italian or Mexican or whatever club because I am not that nationality and noone would think twice, but if I am a member of a club who prohibits entry by a minority, I'm called racist (or sexist or whatever).  I guess I'm saying that the double standard DOES exist and needs to go away.

Quoting:
I guess the question here boils down to be, are we a "melting pot" or a "salad Bowl"?  and which should we be.  I think "salad bowl".
End Quote

Sorry, I don't understand what you  mean by "salad bowl".

Quoting:You ask some very good questions, and make some very good points - and I appologize for using "gringo".  But you must realize that it is the dominant group that assigns lables to those they consider "beneith" them (I'm not accusing you of this).  Black people didn't invent nigg*r, and Puerto Ricans didn't invent Spik, nor the Irish 150 years ago Mik etc.  These terms were invented by good Anglo-Saxon Protestants (ASPs) and assigned to us.  Now, when we protest, we are told we are being too sensitive.
End Quote

I take no offense to the term "gringo", but I do take offense to being called a "cracker".  If I were to protest being called a cracker, would I be considered too sensitive?  Probably not.  The point I was trying to make is that EVERY ethnicity has terms for other ethnicities, most which are not flattering, and it needs to stop.

Quoting:
I could be prohibited from joining an Italian or Mexican or whatever club because I am not that nationality and noone would think twice, but if I am a member of a club who prohibits entry by a minority, I'm called racist (or sexist or whatever).
End Quote

Do they prohibit on that basis?  I joined an Irish club when I was seventeen (they sold beer & Guinness cheaper than the pubs around), and they didn't seem to worry that I wasn't Irish... (or that I wasn't strictly old enough to drink, either)

But I agree with the general point: discrimination needs to end, and it needs to end both ways.

Phil

Quoting:


Hmm! Interesting. I'm not suggesting there are no black irish people but why were the Irish not considered white? Did they derive from somewhere else?

End Quote

The "Blacl Irish" are, seemingly, the decendents of the survivors of the Spanish Armada, some of which went aground in Ireland and blended in with the population.

When the Irsish can to the U.S. in laarge numbers, their faith, and the fact that the Anglos despised them, ment that they were trewated here as "non-white" - "No Irish Need Apply" was a common sign at that time.  Find a site that features Howard Nast cartoons from the period.  They will clearly show that the Irish were shown in similar ways to black people - ape-like, less tyhan fully human.

Quoting:


The "Blacl Irish" are, seemingly, the decendents of the survivors of the Spanish Armada, some of which went aground in Ireland and blended in with the population.

End Quote

Yeah, that's what people usually semi-jokingly say my dad is.

Quoting:


Ignorrance.

Pardon me for being blunt, but its based purely on ignorrance  of history.

Lawn Jockeys are a symbol that represents the ending of slavory, yet the majority of black see them as a symbol of racism.  Simply because A.) they haven't bothered to investigate its history and B.) becuase all they see is a statue of a black person, and they automatically relate it to a racial symbol.  and C.) because certain leaders of certain groups have instilled in them that they should find things such as Lawn Jockeys offensive, despite what their meaning used to be (eh hem I'm looking at you Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson >:()

As long as people continue to profit off of racism (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton), even if the subject isnt racist at all(Lawn Jockeys), racism will never die.


End Quote

Well 80's, since YOU weren't aware of the historical significance of "lawn Jockies" might we not assume  that most other people, including their owners, are any better informed?  Cat may be right, but the symbolism is of a black servant welcoming white visitors to his master's house.  If that doesn't harken back to slavery, I don't know what does.  Again you display your lack of sensitivity.

And as to minorities displaying "racism":  Racism is an inmstitutional and cultural response of the majority toward minorities.  We minorities might make derogitory references  to you in the majority, but mostly, we can't deny you jobs, we can't exclude you from public places.  All we can do is insult you.  On the other hand, you can, and have done these things to us.  Maybe as an individual you don't deserve to be painted with the brush of the majority, but you seem to be defending it anyway.  One has to ask why?

Quoting:
Well 80's, since YOU weren't aware of the historical significance of "lawn Jockies" might we not assume  that most other people, including their owners, are any better informed?  End Quote

Don, I did know the signifcance.  I was simply trying to find a link to an article regarding a city banning them becuase they thought they were racist.  I never said I didn't know what they meant, I just didn't know the city that banned them.

Quoting:but the symbolism is of a black servant welcoming white visitors to his master's house.  If that doesn't harken back to slavery, I don't know what does.  Again you display your lack of sensitivity.End Quote

of course its a symbol refering to the time of slavery, but is it a negative symbol of the time of slavery?  No, its a lawn ornament readily available at a flea market near you.  

Or more importantly, is it a symbol endorsing slavery?  Again, No.

So where is my "lack of sensitivity"?  

Quoting:


And as to minorities displaying "racism":  Racism is an inmstitutional and cultural response of the majority toward minorities.  We minorities might make derogitory references  to you in the majority, but mostly, we can't deny you jobs, we can't exclude you from public places.  All we can do is insult you.  On the other hand, you can, and have done these things to us.  End Quote

rac·ism    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racist adj. & n.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

So, it's only a majority against a minority?  How do you explain what has happened in South Africa's past?  The whites were the minority there, so I guess by your definition, what they did wasn't racist?  Oh, that's right, it's the "white man" again...

And, as far as being denied jobs, etc, there ARE black/hispanic/etc companies and clubs that DO deny whites, but the last time I checked, there was a law stating that companies cannot discriminate for or against a potential employee based on race.  Check almost any college fraternity/sorority list and you will find them.

Quoting:Maybe as an individual you don't deserve to be painted with the brush of the majority, but you seem to be defending it anyway.  One has to ask why?
End Quote

Maybe the same reason you defend ALL minorities.  No race is immune from bad/good members.  Just as no race deserves to be "painted with the brush of the majority" of it's members.  It's intrinsic to our nature to defend what is the same, and be wary of that which is different.  It takes strength and intelligence to rise above that and accept people for who they are, not what they look like.  Judging the majority NOW for what was done in the past is as bad as judging the minority for what they have done in the past.  It's thinking like this that promotes racism.  AND, it's taking this thinking to the extreme that will keep the PC police running strong...it's okay for the minority to "insult" the majority, but not vice versa.

Quoting: Judging the majority NOW for what was done in the past is as bad as judging the minority for what they have done in the past.  It's thinking like this that promotes racism.  AND, it's taking this thinking to the extreme that will keep the PC police running strong.
End Quote

Excellent point.

People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, Julian Bond and others, have made racism a very profitable business.  And as long as people like them keep promoting hatred and division among the races, racism will never die.  After all, if it did, Jackson, Sharpton, and Bond would be out of a job.

Quoting:

rac·ism    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racist adj. & n.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

So, it's only a majority against a minority?  How do you explain what has happened in South Africa's past?  The whites were the minority there, so I guess by your definition, what they did wasn't racist?  Oh, that's right, it's the "white man" again...

And, as far as being denied jobs, etc, there ARE black/hispanic/etc companies and clubs that DO deny whites, but the last time I checked, there was a law stating that companies cannot discriminate for or against a potential employee based on race.  Check almost any college fraternity/sorority list and you will find them.

Maybe the same reason you defend ALL minorities.  No race is immune from bad/good members.  Just as no race deserves to be "painted with the brush of the majority" of it's members.  It's intrinsic to our nature to defend what is the same, and be wary of that which is different.  It takes strength and intelligence to rise above that and accept people for who they are, not what they look like.  Judging the majority NOW for what was done in the past is as bad as judging the minority for what they have done in the past.  It's thinking like this that promotes racism.  AND, it's taking this thinking to the extreme that will keep the PC police running strong...it's okay for the minority to "insult" the majority, but not vice versa.
End Quote

Cheerleader, I'm sorry, but your dictionary definition, as most do, leaves out a good deal, which historians, sociologist, and philosophers have added to.  Certainly there are minorities who concider themselves supierion to white people (the Black Muslim movement comers to mind) and I agree that they are advocating a racist agenda.  But my point was different.  I think we need to distingush racism from prejudice.  You are entitle to your personal prejudices (my  main one is against liver), but racism and prejudice are not the same.  Racism is systemic, like the Plessy V Furguson Supreme court decision.  Like the Jim Crow law it led to.  

As to S. Africa, as I understand what happened is that a racist system - based, by the way on U.S. Jim Crow laws - was overthrown by the majority of the people of that country, who have made every effort to overcome the legacy of the past through their own process, and have established a democracy - ie gov't by the majority.  The whites were clearly racist, and used their power to vertually enslave the majority black population.  There were counties in the south, befor the Civil War, that were majority black.  Same thing.

Last I looked, anti-discrimionation laws applied, as they should, to everyone.  I could be wrong, but I don't remember a case against a minority company alleging discrimination because a white worker was refused a job on race.  Certainly there may be some, and I disagree with this discrimination as well.

It is certainly NOT ok for minorities to sink to the level of aiming racist epithets at those who have been our tormentors for so long, but it may be understandable.  And it may be unjust of we minorities to blame you for the "sins of your fathers", but if I'm not mistaken, the Bible, says we all shall be punished for them unto the seventh generation.  I'm sorry, but I, for one, am not a tabula rosa.  I remember the racist slurs that were aimed at me in my youth.  Guess you never experienced that, so can't understand.  And that's the problem.  YOU CAN"T UNDERSTAND the hurt that has been inflicted, and you don't want to take any responsibility for it, or for the consequences (for example, why is the black and hispanic infant mortality rate IN THIS COUNTRY higher than that rate in Cuba? What makes a black or hispanic baby worth less than a white baby?).  You just don't get it.  It's not a matter of YOUR responsibility, your prejudices (about which I could care less), or your love for humanity.  None of that is the point.  It's about the disadvantages that people of coler face in the country.  It's about the racism that is endemic in our culture, our institutions, our beliefs.

When people of color have the power to discriminate against you white folks, and use it, I will be right beside you advocating inclusion  "tolerance" and diversity.  Maybe my less fortunate non-whites will be more generous than you white folks have been.

If "political correctness begins to address the issue of race and racism by raising (some, obviously not all) white folks' consciousness to the historical AND PRESENT reality of racism and discrimination, I'm all for it.

Look, you have to try to see this stuff from the other guy's perspective, its called empathy.

Quoting:


Excellent point.

People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, Julian Bond and others, have made racism a very profitable business.  And as long as people like them keep promoting hatred and division among the races, racism will never die.  After all, if it did, Jackson, Sharpton, and Bond would be out of a job.
End Quote

Al Sharpton is a jerk - every black person I know also thinks so.  But Julian Bond and Jesse Jackson are of a different mold.  Neither has, to my knowledge, ever advocated any kind of seperatism.  Both have always advocated an end to segregation and racism, and both have always followed MLK's peacefull road to change.  You should be ashamed of lumping them together.  All they have in common is the color of their skin - or is that enough for you?

Quoting:
You should be ashamed of lumping them together.  All they have in common is the color of their skin - or is that enough for you?
End Quote

I don't appreciate your insinuation(sp?) Don.




Jackson and Bond do nothing for their "cause" except influence the mind-set that blacks can't succeed, and that us evil "white folks" are the reason.  Jackson is a shake-down artist by going to businesses/organizations and threatening to yell "racist!", and to avoid the media coverage, the businesses settle with him.  Julian Bond still feels that blacks in America can't succeed on their own, so he runs the NAACP.  How is that promoting the end to segregation and racism?  Its doing nothing but throwing fuel to the fire..


If they were really trying to promote the end to segragation and racism as they claim, they wouldn't constantly remind and insist to blacks that they can't succeed without their help, and that us "white folks" want to hold them down.  This is the 21st Century.  black, white, gree, yellow, you name it, whatever color you are, you can succeed.  But people like Jackson and Bond and Sharpton continue to insist thats just not possible.

Quoting:


I don't appreciate your insinuation(sp?) Don.




Jackson and Bond do nothing for their "cause" except influence the mind-set that blacks can't succeed, and that us evil "white folks" are the reason.  Jackson is a shake-down artist by going to businesses/organizations and threatening to yell "racist!", and to avoid the media coverage, the businesses settle with him.  Julian Bond still feels that blacks in America can't succeed on their own, so he runs the NAACP.  How is that promoting the end to segregation and racism?  Its doing nothing but throwing fuel to the fire..


If they were really trying to promote the end to segragation and racism as they claim, they wouldn't constantly remind and insist to blacks that they can't succeed without their help, and that us "white folks" want to hold them down.  This is the 21st Century.  black, white, gree, yellow, you name it, whatever color you are, you can succeed.  But people like Jackson and Bond and Sharpton continue to insist thats just not possible.



End Quote

Gee, you can't imagin how much it bothers me that you "don't appreciate my insinuation".  Breaks me up as much as... I'll cry myself to sleep.

The point is that you conservatives just don't get it.  You have never "walked a mile" in our shoes.  Ever been racially profiled?  Ever been been refered to with a racial epithet?  Ever been last hired, first fired?  MLK once said something like the following:  It's ok to tell a man with shoes to pull himself up by his boot straps.  But it would be a grave injustice to put a man in jail and then, years later discover his innocence, and turn him out of the prison with nothing more than the cloths on his back, no education, no bus fare, nothing.  Like telling a shoeless man to pull himself up by his boot straps.  A cruel joke.

Regardless of your personnal attitude toward minorities (you can call me a spik if you like - I couldn't give a flying F), you have to confront the "cruel joke" of believing that this is color blind society.  As I said in other posts to younger members of this board, we seem to be moving in that direction, but "there are miles to go before we sleep" as Robert Frost said, and you're denial just makes the road longer.

As to Julian and Jesse, I guess you are entitles to your estimations, but I think your WAY out in right field, boardering on, dare I say it...

Quoting:

Jackson and Bond do nothing for their "cause" except influence the mind-set that blacks can't succeed, and that us evil "white folks" are the reason.  

End Quote

What else would be the reason?

Quoting:

Ever been last hired, first fired? End Quote

I have but that wasn't racial prejudice that was bloody bad luck.  :-/

I think the problem with racism, and I've said it before, is that it deals with groups of people and not individuals, robbing them of a personality. In my opinion, I believe that it is people who don't attempt to understand others who veer towards this unpleasant quality.

Quoting:Gee, you can't imagin how much it bothers me that you "don't appreciate my insinuation".  Breaks me up as much as... I'll cry myself to sleep...Regardless of your personnal attitude toward minorities (you can call me a spik if you like - I couldn't give a flying F), End Quote

Don, again, I don't appreciate what you are hinting towards. :(  

You are hinting towards, but not coming out and saying, that I must be some kind of racist.  

You are way out of line.  And its un-called for.  Keep the debate on the topic, not dropping little hints that I must be some kind of racist.



The thread is yours, take it.  I'm done arguing with you if you are going to result to this.

Quoting:


I have but that wasn't racial prejudice that was bloody bad luck.  :-/End Quote

Yeah, I don't know what reasoning he had for that.  I was last-hired, first-fired.  It's a seniority issue.

By his reasoning, I should be able to sue my employer for being racist.  Unfortunately, I'm Chinese :P

Quoting:


Don, again, I don't appreciate what you are hinting towards. :(  

You are hinting towards, but not coming out and saying, that I must be some kind of racist.  

You are way out of line.  And its un-called for.  Keep the debate on the topic, not dropping little hints that I must be some kind of racist.



The thread is yours, take it.  I'm done arguing with you if you are going to result to this.


End Quote

Yeah, 80's, I have been baiting you with hints that you might be racist.  But as I said above, I don't giove a Flying F... wherther you  are or not.  My point in doing it was to give you a little taste of what being labled feels like.  I have not idea what your personal prejudices are, they are your burdon, not mine.  But maybe now you have an inkiling of what it feels like to be labled and named for no reason that has anything to do with who you are.

But I will say again, that if you really believe that this is a "color blind" society, you must be delusional.  Moving that way surly, but still a long way to go.  You can join the march, or you can continue to pretent that the journy is over.  We would like you on board.

And I do apologize for the insinuations, which as far as I know were groundless.

Quoting:


Al Sharpton is a jerk - every black person I know also thinks so.  But Julian Bond and Jesse Jackson are of a different mold.  Neither has, to my knowledge, ever advocated any kind of seperatism.  Both have always advocated an end to segregation and racism, and both have always followed MLK's peacefull road to change.  You should be ashamed of lumping them together.  All they have in common is the color of their skin - or is that enough for you?
End Quote

Again, it's okay for you to lump all whites together, but not to lump 3 men based on the color of their skin?

I agree, Jackson and Bond advocate a peaceful end to segregation/racism, BUT Jackson is the FIRST on the scene whenever anything happens to a black person(s).  Case in point, there were 6 black youths in a town in Illinois (Decatur) that were expelled from school for 2 years for starting a brawl at a football game.  JJ showed up on the scene and said that their punishment was based on them being black and that their civil rights had been violated.  He got the expulsions reduced to 1 year, and they were able to enroll in alternative schools during that year.  However, he wanted NO punishment.  I could go on and on about JJ, but I'll stop here.

And, DC, you are right, I've never been the victim of racism, but I have been the victim of sexism.  And yes, I have been last hired, first fired from a job (where I was the ONLY woman and only one fired).  They said it was based on my production, but on a daily basis, I was #3 our of 13.  Another example, in my sophomore year in college, I had a black roommate.  She went to the housing board and asked to be switched after a week, and after hearing constant comments from her friends/family.  We got along fine, but she told me "I have nothing against you, but I just can't live with a white girl".  Would that be considered racism?  If I had said I couldn't live with her, it would be...

The point I'm trying to make is that as long as there are people who CONSTANTLY point out the differences between skin color (or sex), there will be racism (or sexism).  I think there is a need for Political Correctness in this country, but there are groups that take it too far.  No matter what anyone says, there are going to be people who are prejudiced against another group.  I wish we lived in a color blind society, but the reality is we don't.  Is PC helping move us towards that?  Sometimes, I'm not so sure.  

Quoting:


In my opinion, I believe that it is people who don't attempt to understand others who veer towards this unpleasant quality.
End Quote

Good point, Bobby. Sadly, I can't forsee a situation where we'll all understand each other- I personally would like to work towards a culture where we at least respected each other. I think PC has a part to play in this, but feel the way it's imposed on people can have a negative effect. In my area, it has been decided it is offensive to call refuse sacks 'black bags', despite the fact that they are indeed black-coloured. This has had the unfortunate effect of introducing a new derogatory term for non-whites into the vocabulary of those tending to use epithets- 'bin bags'. I have even heard people, whom previously would never have used the usual terms, using this new term in jest. This is 'political correctness gone bad', rather than mad...

Another point about PC, which others have touched on. If, for instance, we are no longer allowed to refer to objects by their colour in case it offends people with that colour skin, how are we going to refer to things? I'm a Hispanic 'white', but I don't get offended when people refer to white objects as white. (Most 'black' people I know don't mind being called black, despite not even being black-coloured). I don't know what the answer is- whilst PC is often well-intentioned, sadly any term used is bound to offend someone, somewhere. In summary, I think we should be allowed to 'call a spade a spade', but not call a black person one. :P

Quoting:



I agree, Jackson and Bond advocate a peaceful end to segregation/racism, BUT Jackson is the FIRST on the scene whenever anything happens to a black person(s).  Case in point, there were 6 black youths in a town in Illinois (Decatur) that were expelled from school for 2 years for starting a brawl at a football game.  JJ showed up on the scene and said that their punishment was based on them being black and that their civil rights had been violated.  He got the expulsions reduced to 1 year, and they were able to enroll in alternative schools during that year.  However, he wanted NO punishment.  I could go on and on about JJ, but I'll stop here.


The point I'm trying to make is that as long as there are people who CONSTANTLY point out the differences between skin color (or sex), there will be racism (or sexism).  I think there is a need for Political Correctness in this country, but there are groups that take it too far.  No matter what anyone says, there are going to be people who are prejudiced against another group.  I wish we lived in a color blind society, but the reality is we don't.  Is PC helping move us towards that?  Sometimes, I'm not so sure.  
End Quote

As far as Jessie Jackson is concerned He is behind the times a little bit I feel like. As far as living in a color blind society as long as a person is nice to me I'll be nice to them back. If they are nasty to me black or white etc. I don't want to be bothered with them. One of the meanest things that happened to me was done by a white person because of jealousy on his part. I am white and he was white and am I going to be mad at my whole race because of something that was done because the same person was the same race as me? No. I try to take each person I meet and treat them equally.

Quoting:Another point about PC, which others have touched on. If, for instance, we are no longer allowed to refer to objects by their colour in case it offends people with that colour skin, how are we going to refer to things? I'm a Hispanic 'white', but I don't get offended when people refer to white objects as white. (Most 'black' people I know don't mind being called black, despite not even being black-coloured). I don't know what the answer is- whilst PC is often well-intentioned, sadly any term used is bound to offend someone, somewhere. In summary, I think we should be allowed to 'call a spade a spade', but not call a black person one. :P
End Quote

Goodsin, you hit on what I mentioned in a 'politically correct' topic thread a few months ago (I'll look for it later) about objects being called other things because of their colour. In Britain, we had a problem because 'blackboard' was considered offensive and children were steered away from singing the nursery rhyme 'Baa Baa Black Sheep'.

You also seem to be right about black people's perspectives on things. According to the black people I knew (and I knew a lot in Wolverhampton). They would prefer to be called 'Black' and not 'coloured' because that is their identity. To call them 'coloured' generalises them. To call someone coloured insinuates that they are not brown or black but green, blue, indigo . . .

I wonder if 'white' people get bothered when they hear the term 'whitewash' or, in Britain, 'The White Cliffs of Dover'. I've never given it a thought . . . Should we?

Quoting:
Words in themselves are not racist.  Concepts are racist.

End Quote

So if I were to call you a *bleep* but didn't didn't believe a word I was saying, you would not be offended?

Bad words. You should be able to put whatever words you want in books. PC-ality should be left outside the world of the written word. Being PC means that you don't enter a conversation with a Jew with "Hey, *bleep*, you know you'd fit nicely in my ashtray".

Be PC in conversation among strangers and those you know would be offended by it. Among friends it's fine and when it's done on paper to say something meaningful, it's fine.

That's my take on this whole thing.

Quoting:

So if I were to call you a *bleep* but didn't didn't believe a word I was saying, you would not be offended?
End Quote

???  Not really, no.  What am i supposed to be offended by, the swearing?  And it's not really racism is it?  

Quoting:
Here's a take on PC that I found...


PC Primer
End Quote

That website with it's list is just duck and chucking the issue and being plain silly.  They are an example of the far right that is not always sensative to stuff that could be genuinely offensive to some people.

Quoting:
IMHO, not calling someone what John Harvey posted is just plain common sense and decency, not political correctness.

I guess there is good and bad PC...
End Quote

I agree with Gamblefish. However, if someone said what John Harvey suggested and not believed in what they were saying, I would be inclined to believe that the person has Tourette's Syndrome or something and not an issue with political correctness.

If someone said that directly at me I would be confused at best, hurt in normal conditions.

Quoting:
My point was not to be an *bleep*. I was just pointing out that what you said cannot be made as an absolute.
End Quote

No, I think we all know you didn't mean what you posted, you were just making an example. I was just using your example in my post.

Quoting:
My point was not to be an *bleep*. I was just pointing out that what you said cannot be made as an absolute.
End Quote

I understood as well, John Harvey. I just replied back.  :)

Quoting:
Here's a take on PC that I found...


PC Primer

End Quote

LMAO!!! :D :D :D

Quoting:

I agree with Gamblefish. However, if someone said what John Harvey suggested and not believed in what they were saying, I would be inclined to believe that the person has Tourette's Syndrome or something and not an issue with political correctness.

If someone said that directly at me I would be confused...End Quote

LOL!

I'm sorry, but when I read John Harvey's post with all the profanity I had to modify (*asterisks* replacing letters don't make the words anymore allowed than if fully spelled out), I too thought of Tourette's Syndrome.

Quoting:
Here's a take on PC that I found...


PC Primer

End Quote

A bit too long. It kinda beats the joke to death. I did, however, like that "Mail man" had to be called a "Person person". That was pretty funny.

Quoting:
Here's a take on PC that I found...


PC Primer

End Quote

:D lol! :D

Quoting:
I actually think these message boards here are overly PC.  I realize that this board is owned by whoever and they can do whatever they want, but I think the rules here are overtly PC to truly crazy levels.

I'm sure the argument will be to "protect the kids" and "keep a family atomsphere", (with the clear implication that anyone that doesn't like it is a crude and vulgar person) but it's hilarious the kind of G rated or PG rated words that are automatically bleeped out here.  It's not just the understandable f-word or s-word that is bleeped out, it's ANYTHING that is deemed offensive.  Or what is just edited out by a moderator.  THAT is PC lunacy to me.      
End Quote

Ah...you noticed that too?  

Quoting:
I actually think these message boards here are overly PC.  How many words are automatically bleeped out or edited out by a mod on these boards?  I realize that this board is owned by whoever and they can do whatever they want, but if I can speak my mind I want to say that I think the rules here are overtly PC to truly nutty levels.  So I seem some real irony with the complaints against PC by certain people here.  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm sure the argument will be to "protect the kids" and "keep a family atmosphere", (with the clear holier than thou implication that anyone that doesn't like it is an utterly crude, vile, and vulgar person), but it's hilarious the kind of G rated or PG rated words that are automatically bleeped out here.  It's not just the understandable f-word or s-word that is bleeped out, it's ANYTHING that is deemed offensive.  Or what is just edited out by a moderator.  THAT is PC lunacy to me.      
End Quote

Yeah, that's one of the first things i noticed when i started posting on here.  I used to try and find out from people what the logic was behind it (in other places) but when i carried on asking after they kept saying 'family - family - family' they just labelled me a troublemaker and left it at that.  So i don't bother arguing about it anymore.  Just one of those mysteries...

Quoting:
I actually think these message boards here are overly PC.  I realize that this board is owned by whoever and they can do whatever they want, but I think the rules here are overtly PC to truly crazy levels.End Quote

I think we have the right balance, Chris Megatron THX. This is my reason . . .

I was looking for a review on a game for the X-Box I fancy called 'WWE Raw Aggression' and I stumbled across a messageboard similar to this. It was moderated to some degree but the posts were littered with sick language, everybody accusing each other of being gay and verbal abuse, lots of extreme ranting and quite often death threats were exchanged (yeah believe it!).

I laughed at the majority of a couple of things that were said about the British (some bloke was asking what beverage the British drink - he came to the conclusion that we all drank blood because we say bloody a lot.  ;D). The British people on the boards were giving it hell as well calling the same ignorant guy 'a redneck' (putting it politely).

What I am trying to say is, if we push the envelope too far, the board will resort to people conflicting with each other instead of discussing things in a civil manner.

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I actually think these message boards here are overly PC.  How many words are automatically bleeped out or edited out by a mod on these boards?  I realize that this board is owned by whoever and they can do whatever they want, but if I can speak my mind I want to say that I think the rules here are overtly PC to truly nutty levels.  So I seem some real irony with the complaints against PC by certain people here.  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm sure the argument will be to "protect the kids" and "keep a family atmosphere", (with the clear holier than thou implication that anyone that doesn't like it is an utterly crude, vile, and vulgar person), but it's hilarious the kind of G rated or PG rated words that are automatically bleeped out here.  It's not just the understandable f-word or s-word that is bleeped out, it's ANYTHING that is deemed offensive.  Or what is just edited out by a moderator.  THAT is PC lunacy to me.      
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Mustn’t be too bad for ya'. You're still hangin around. ;)

Oh, and that whole bit about "(with the clear holier than thou implication that anyone that doesn't like it is an utterly crude, vile, and vulgar person)", well that's an assumption on your part.

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Ah...you noticed that too?  
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Mustn’t be too bad for ya'. You're still hangin around. ;)

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Again, it's okay for you to lump all whites together, but not to lump 3 men based on the color of their skin?

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Cheerleader, there is nothig that you wrote in your long post that I can quarrel with.  When we think about prejudices on an individual level (ie "my prejudices"  I don't like Phil, I hate Lavern), we all have them.  No guilt attached.  Let's go another lap.  My guess is that you don't hate any group because of who they are - which is to say, from my perspective, I don't hate all Anglo-Saxon Christians because George Bush is one.  My emnity is directed.  But you must acknowledge, REGARDLESS of your own prejudices _ which from what I have read of your posts are not racially or ethnically motivated, that there are still many in this country who DO hold racial and ethnic prejudices.  What we minorities ask of you who are trying to cast off racism is first, understanding that the devil is still amoung us, and second, understanding of our rage.  We don't want your love (necessarily, anthough if you're cute...- sorry, bad joke), we don't want you're sympathy, we certainly don't want you condecendence.  I think want we want is you're recognition that we, and our ancestors have been wronged as groups.  Some more than others to be sure, and that those wrongs need to be acknowledged.  And,. more importantly, that we are your equals.

What I find interesting is that you white folks all want to exonerate yourselves as individuals, but never address the stysemic levels of racism.  I will accept that every one of you is color blind, and I love you for that.  The system is not.  So I ask you, if you are truely color blind, to help people of color root out the vestiges of racism that still exists in our society.

And you know?  If the neofasc's want to label that effort- well, whatever they might- I must say that I don't give a flying (which I never have, but sounds interesting ;D) F..., people of conscions need to make their presence felt.  If you don't, than, I think, all your good thoughts, and all your sincere beliefs, are just so many brown leaves in the late fall wind.

Sorry Cheerleader, obviously this was aimed at more than your response.  Hope you don't mind.

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I think want we want is you're recognition that we, and our ancestors have been wronged as groups.  Some more than others to be sure, and that those wrongs need to be acknowledged.  And,. more importantly, that we are your equals.End Quote

Well...I'm sure my ancestors have been wronged way back in the day too ::)  Then again, I wasn't there, so other than a history lesson it doesn't concern me anymore.

And if you wanna be "our equals" maybe you should consider that affirmative action and hate crime legislation aren't exactly equal, eh?

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What I find interesting is that you white folks all want to exonerate yourselves as individuals, but never address the stysemic levels of racism.  I will accept that every one of you is color blind, and I love you for that.  The system is not.  So I ask you, if you are truely color blind, to help people of color root out the vestiges of racism that still exists in our society.End Quote

"White folks" have had to address racism for centuries, i.e. Jews and Irish immigrants.

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And you know?  If the neofasc's want to label that effort- well, whatever they might- I must say that I don't give a flying (which I never have, but sounds interesting ;D) F..., people of conscions need to make their presence felt.  If you don't, than, I think, all your good thoughts, and all your sincere beliefs, are just so many brown leaves in the late fall wind.

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Funny how whenever someone won't give "minorities" a free ride, they're called fascists or similar.  I'm a "minority", and I sure as hell didn't get any free rides.

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Carlos, maybe 'white' people are uncomfortable with their past ignorance as much as ethnic minorities are angry with 'white' people. The decent, but unknowledgeable, 'white' people feel they have to exonerate themselves because they have no idea how to appease racial situations. I say 'appease' because, in my opinion, that is their view.

I must also say that, in history, whites are not prejudiced as to whom they perform injustices on, as in all races. They have often had civil wars and fought against their own race as well.

As for the justice system well . . . There's more to be done but it's going to take a better, more influential, man (or group of men) than me to change it.

Just a thought, Carlos.  :)