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On the bottom of every post you have, it says something about Salvador Allende, Chilean Pres. 1970-73. Why did the CIA kill him? I have never heard of him. Is there an interesting story to be told?
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Salvador Allende was elected President of Chile in 1970, in a three way contest.  He was the candidate of the Popular Unity coalition of the Socialist, Communist, Radical and a few other minor parties.  He promised a peaceful road to socialism.  He won 36% of the vote, the right wing candidate won about 30% of the vote, and the Christian Democrat, who also advanced a socialist plateform, won the rest.  He nationalized the U.S. owned copper mines - Chile's chief source of foreign exchange at the time, and bought out many other U.S. corporate assets, and Chilean corporations as well.  He established diplomatic relations with all nations, including Cuba.  He increased the minimum wage, and carried out a land reform law that had been passed by his predesessor.  He established free clinics in the poor neighborhoods throughout the country, and set up nutrician programs for the poor.
Nixon hated his guts and ordered CIA director Richard Helms to see to his overthrow.  The campaign was intense, and included assassinating the commander of the army (Rene Schieder and Allende's naval attachet, whose name I forget).  Allende was overthrown in a military coup in 1973.  You can read about it in the reports of the Senate Committee on Government Operations, the Church Committee (after Sen Frank Church), which also reported on other attempted at and successful  assassinations, like Patrice Lumumba, Fidel Castro, and several other foreign leaders.
What is striking about the Allende case is that he was properly elected in a democratic election, and was carrying out the will of 2/3 of the people of his country.  Democracy was, and to this day is supported by this country only if it yeilds the results we want, or as Henry Kissinger put it at the time, "We can't stand by and watch a country go commnunist due to the irresponsibility of its own people".
The results of the coup, by the way, were that Chile indured a decade of facsism, with many people tortured, killed, and "disappeared", and everything "privatized".

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He killed himself.  Well, actually that was part of the debate back in the late 60's.
The terrible Americans destoyed Chile's economy...blah, blah, blah  ;)  

This link should help you want the Senate cttee's findings.  Educational reading if you are so inclined.  
http://www.derechos.org/nizkor/chile/doc/covert.html

But I'm sure DC's version will be less sugar coated. ;D
cs
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Thanks for providing the link, CS.  It is only a  part of the report.  There are several preliminary ones that cover other covert activities in other countries.

Could I ask you the meaning of "blah blah blah" in this context?

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Thanks for providing the link, CS.  It is only a  part of the report.  There are several preliminary ones that cover other covert activities in other countries.

Could I ask you the meaning of "blah blah blah" in this context?
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Oh man.  I knew I should have just shut up after economy.  That'll learn me good!
I figured you would have more to say about my suicide claim than anything else.
The blah, blah, blah - the US is an evil empire.  Just my little way of trying to get a rise out of you, DC.  No harm intended - just having some fun with you.  You aren't going to kill me know are you?  LOL! ;)

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I thought the United States had a policy *against* assasinating foriegn heads of state. Wow.
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I believe the policy was enacted under the Ford administration but I'm not completely certain.

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Oh man.  I knew I should have just shut up after economy.  That'll learn me good!
I figured you would have more to say about my suicide claim than anything else.
The blah, blah, blah - the US is an evil empire.  Just my little way of trying to get a rise out of you, DC.  No harm intended - just having some fun with you.  You aren't going to kill me know are you?  LOL! ;)
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Well, your suicide claim has been asserted by many people.  Several reports indicate that he shot himself after refusing to surrender to the coup plotters, with a rife Fidel gave him.  Could be.  I wasn't there.  But the whole thing, three years worth, was engineered by the CIA, and their (and State Department recently declassified documents) show this.

As to "getting a rise out of" me, its not going to work.  And NO, I'm not going to "kill you".  I will question the humor in the fact that our supposedly democratic loving gov't encouraged the overthrough one of the oldest and least corrupt democracies in the hemisphere though.  May I suggest, IMHO that there are many things to make light of, and I try to do so on occasion in the PPA, but I don't think this is one of them, especially considering the agony, suffering, and pain that the Chilean people endured as a result of the coup.  Might I suggest, with no hostility implied, that your "blah, Blah, Blah" response was a bit insensitive?  I guess I just don't think tourturing people, as Pinochet's regime did, is very funny.

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I believe the policy was enacted under the Ford administration but I'm not completely certain.
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Yes Rice, After the embarassment of the Church Committe revelations Ford issued a presidential order against the use use of assassination  as a foreign policy tool, much to his credit.  The status of that order is now (after attempts to bomb Saddam) is much less clear.  I guess it means that the CIA can't do it, but the military can.

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Yes Rice, After the embarassment of the Church Committe revelations Ford issued a presidential order against the use use of assassination  as a foreign policy tool, much to his credit.  The status of that order is now (after attempts to bomb Saddam) is much less clear.  I guess it means that the CIA can't do it, but the military can.
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You beat me to this response DC.  

I sure didn't mean to offend you!  I was only messing with you.  Nor was it my intent to appear insensitive to the plight of the Chilean people.  I don't disagree with you that Nixon screwed the pooch on this.

Friends?

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You beat me to this response DC.  

I sure didn't mean to offend you!  I was only messing with you.  Nor was it my intent to appear insensitive to the plight of the Chilean people.  I don't disagree with you that Nixon screwed the pooch on this.

Friends?

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"Screwed the pooch"?  Sorry, I don't get that - remember, I'm old  ;).  And I'm glad that you care about people suffering, Chilean or otherwise.  Nor do I mind your "messing with me" (I might just "mess" back  ;))  And I took no offense.

And YES - we can BE FRIENDS as long as we can respect each other's opinions, even if we just agree to disagree.  I guess that means that I consider your interpretation, and you consider mine.  Fair Enought?

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Salvador Allende was elected President of Chile in 1970, in a three way contest.  He was the candidate of the Popular Unity coalition of the Socialist, Communist, Radical and a few other minor parties.  He promised a peaceful road to socialism.  He won 36% of the vote, the right wing candidate won about 30% of the vote, and the Christian Democrat, who also advanced a socialist plateform, won the rest.  He nationalized the U.S. owned copper mines - Chile's chief source of foreign exchange at the time, and bought out many other U.S. corporate assets, and Chilean corporations as well.  He established diplomatic relations with all nations, including Cuba.  He increased the minimum wage, and carried out a land reform law that had been passed by his predesessor.  He established free clinics in the poor neighborhoods throughout the country, and set up nutrician programs for the poor.
Nixon hated his guts and ordered CIA director Richard Helms to see to his overthrow.  The campaign was intense, and included assassinating the commander of the army (Rene Schieder and Allende's naval attachet, whose name I forget).  Allende was overthrown in a military coup in 1973.  You can read about it in the reports of the Senate Committee on Government Operations, the Church Committee (after Sen Frank Church), which also reported on other attempted at and successful  assassinations, like Patrice Lumumba, Fidel Castro, and several other foreign leaders.
What is striking about the Allende case is that he was properly elected in a democratic election, and was carrying out the will of 2/3 of the people of his country.  Democracy was, and to this day is supported by this country only if it yeilds the results we want, or as Henry Kissinger put it at the time, "We can't stand by and watch a country go commnunist due to the irresponsibility of its own people".
The results of the coup, by the way, were that Chile indured a decade of facsism, with many people tortured, killed, and "disappeared", and everything "privatized".
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are you a teacher?

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"Screwed the pooch"?  Sorry, I don't get that - remember, I'm old  ;).  And I'm glad that you care about people suffering, Chilean or otherwise.  Nor do I mind your "messing with me" (I might just "mess" back  ;))  And I took no offense.

And YES - we can BE FRIENDS as long as we can respect each other's opinions, even if we just agree to disagree.  I guess that means that I consider your interpretation, and you consider mine.  Fair Enought?
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"Screwed the pooch" = really messed up, screwed up, made a big mistake.
I respect your opinion!  I think I told you that long ago.  I only (try to) aggrevate you because I like you ;) I'm like a little boy pulling your hair - that is, if I was a boy and you were a girl.  Or something like that...

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  He's a college professor.
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Political Science or History?

BTW, what does it take to become a professor? I was thinking about going back for a MS, is that enough, or do they want it piled high and deeper?  ;D

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I liked "The Falcon and the Snowman".
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Huh?

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"Screwed the pooch" = really messed up, screwed up, made a big mistake.
I respect your opinion!  I think I told you that long ago.  I only (try to) aggrevate you because I like you ;) I'm like a little boy pulling your hair - that is, if I was a boy and you were a girl.  Or something like that...

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Got It  ;D

By the way, I don't have much hair to pull  ;)  

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Political Science or History?

BTW, what does it take to become a professor? I was thinking about going back for a MS, is that enough, or do they want it piled high and deeper?  ;D
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My Ph.D is in history, Latin American to be specific, and I did all the course work and passed the Ph.D. exams in Sociology (thats called an ABD - all but dissertation).

A Masters degree is what you would need for junior colleges or for most places part time (ie highly exploited).  Most 4 year colleges want it higher and deeper  ;)

Good luck going back  ;D

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Huh?
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That was a reference to the film based on the case of Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee, who decided to sell military secrets to the Russians after becoming disenchanted with US foreign policy, particularly in regards to the Vietnam war and in the collapse of an Australian government in the mid 1970s. While we were on the subject of American meddling, I thought I'd mention it, that's all.  :)

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I just finished watching the movie JFK. Does anyone know of any good books which discuss what happened? There are some facts the movie presents which makes me wonder, could the CIA or our government kill our own elected officials? It would appear to have come from the right (speculation), as would be evident from the string of assasinations from JFK to Martin Luther King to RFK (all involved with human rights). The movie states the reason was JFK wanted out of Vietnam, and the war machine industry did not want to lose the sales, so they killed him. I dunno how much of what I saw was true, but it sparked my interest in learning more. After all, if the CIA can kill a democratically elected president of Chilie, why not our own? Or is this all too much fiction?
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THere have been a number of books and investigations on the JFK bump-off.  I can't remember the names of all of them, but one that made sense to me is called Deadly Secrets.  I forget who wrote it.  The gist is that, at the same time that Sam Giancana was cooperating with the CIA to bump off Castro, Bobby was aggressively pursuing the mafia.  So the mob, along with the Cuban exiles in Florida, who thought JFK betrayed the Bay of Pigs invasion, decided to do Jack, since everyone knew that LBJ hated Bobby's guts.  Later, they did Bobby when it looked like he would get the nomination, and probably win the WH.  He, of course, knew who did Jack.  Obviously this is just the short version of a 300+ page book, but it does make some sense and they do provide a good deal of cercumstantial evidence.

As to the CIA being involved, there have been accusations.  You might try to get ahold of a Bill Moyers video called "The Secret Goverment and the Constitution in Crisis" which was done just after the Iran/Contra scandal, maybe '82 or '83, maybe even later - I'm terrible with dates.  A chrononlogically challenged historian?  Go figure  ;) - but thats what books are for - mine are all in the office.

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That was a reference to the film based on the case of Christopher Boyce and Andrew Daulton Lee, who decided to sell military secrets to the Russians after becoming disenchanted with US foreign policy, particularly in regards to the Vietnam war and in the collapse of an Australian government in the mid 1970s. While we were on the subject of American meddling, I thought I'd mention it, that's all.  :)
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Not familiar with the film.  Cool.  Are you familiar with the film "missing"?  It also is based on a real case - Charles Horman, a U.S. citizen who was killed by the Pinochet thugs after the coup.  I met him once while I was in Chile.  Nice guy.

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Communism is an Evil Empire.

And if you think capitialism is worse.  You need your head examined.

The communists always say they want liberty and an end to oppression.  But all they do is bring about oppression!

That's why they have to lock the borders down AND KEEP THE PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY!

And not have an open border!  Hmmmm.  Plenty of capitialist countries have essentially open borders.  America does.  More or less.  They don't enforce their borders at all.  Or not real well.  Just look at what happened on 9/11.

It seems communists never ever learn.  I'll take the sometimes evil capitialists over the MUCH more evil communists thank you very much.  And so would the majority of the world's population.

Some Vietnamese protested a guy who hung communist flags in his store in Los Angeles.  They had lived under the evil empire of communist brutality and they wanted to string this creep up.

The Cubans in Florida also despise Castro.  Rightfully so.  Cuban immigrants are some of the most successful immigrants in America too!

Ciao!

:)
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While this may be your opinion, you assert it as fact in a rather obnoxious way.  I could as easilly say that "anyone who supports capitalism should have their head examined",  but that kind of rheoric does nothing to forward the discussion.  In fact, this sounds very much like the inflamatory rhetoric "tarzan boy" used to post, and the kind of rhetoric we who have stayed here after the "great exodus" of perhaps 10-15 people, have avoided.  Might I suggest that you tune down your discouses and engage us on an intellectual level?  You might get a warmer reception.

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Capitalist countries have open borders for a good reason...the world is Capitalist.

And yes, America has open borders. But that doesn't work both ways: America is famous for its very strict immigration policies. And you can face a fine for just visiting Cuba, right?

Isn't it true Americans weren't allowed to visit Iraq at some time? In fact, i thought the whole Axis of Evil was off-limits; explicity or impicitly.
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Yes, all the restrictions you point to are accurate.  The U.S. Gov't doesn't want us to experience the Cuban reality, and dosen't want us to spend $$$ there.  It's part of the boycott. Forty years of a failed policy.  Even so U.S. farmers, who could sell their crops there are protesting.