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Subject: How could we improve our government?
I'm sure everyone thinks that we have plenty of room for improvement. I'm interested in hearing from all over the spectrum. If you could change anything about how our country is run, what would it be? Would you change healthcare? Would you reform campaign financing? Would you increase or reduce buisiness regulations?
I'm curious. I just want to hear what you have to say. I don't think I'll debate your choices, I think I'll just try and see things from your perspective and try to see the whole picture.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
If I were in charge, I would appoint someone to do something about all the problems.
Also, I'd add more oregano.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
I think a good start would be to get rid of the Electoral College. It would make it more fair for a minority party in certain states. For example...Utah has a lot of Democrats but is mostly Republican. In the presidential election, the Dem votes from here are mostly in protest. There isn't enought to win the college votes so all our votes go to the Repubs. I think the Presidential vote should be popular vote not Electoral.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Me, I'd scrap this "democracy" thing and start over from scratch. I think I posted some suggestions in another thread a week or two ago...
After all, how can anyone describe democracy as an ideal to which to aspire and in the same breath condemn all politicians as corrupt liars?
Phil
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
I think I agree with whoever said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other ones." I could look up who said it, but I don't feel like it.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
I think I agree with whoever said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other ones." I could look up who said it, but I don't feel like it.
End Quote
Yep... the least worst option - however, I don't think all the options have been fully explored yet.
Phil
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
I think I agree with whoever said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other ones." I could look up who said it, but I don't feel like it.
End Quote
I'm pretty sure that was either churchhill or Mark Twain
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
I like the idea of getting rid of the Electoral College. I would like to see some interenet voting or something where everyone can vote, maybe a call in number. I do not think people should have to register to vote. If you are over 18, you should be able to show up and cast your vote. I have friends who wanted to vote, but forgot to register 6 months before the election, so they were not allowed to vote. I dunno if you all remember this, but when Bush and McCain were running in the South Carolina primary, lots of districts where Bush had influance shut down so McCain supporters could not vote (and those districts were where blacks had a majority). I guess how much people donate to campaigns depends on how well a candidate does early in the primarys. Speaking of money, I would get rid of that in campaigns too. I think there should be a law which says if you get X signatures on a pettition, you get to run for office. Then have a set equal amount of money all candidates get to run their campaign. If it takes a million dollars to run for a senate seat or 50+ million to run for president, who has the money to run? And if you get it donated to you, then you owe favors.
I guess what I am trying to say is they should clean up politics from all the dirt in it.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
A few people have already took my ideas-get rid of the electoral college and have campaign finance reform. That will make it more of a level playing field for anyone who wants to run. It should not be "he who raises the most money wins." Unfortunately, that is what we have in this country now and that is not true democracy. If we changed those two things, I think the rest of what I think this country should do will happen. Because then, the people who sit in Washington (hopefully) will be thinking of what is good for everyone rather than what is good for just them.
Cat
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
please..where do I start?
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
I think I agree with whoever said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other ones." I could look up who said it, but I don't feel like it.
End Quote
If I'm not mistaken, it was Winston Churchill
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
I'm absolutely in favor of campaign finance reform. The advantage of the electoral college is that it gives smaller states a bit more clout. Without it, candidates would confine their campaigns to just the biggest states, CA, NY, FL, TX etc, and ignore the others.
Aside from introducing proportional representation, at least in the HofR, I think the biggest problem is that too many people abdicate their political responsibility. With less than half the eligable voters voting, even in a presidential election, how can we possibly expect gov't to be responsive? As a nation, we get the kind of gov't we deserve, which is to say one that responds to those who put it in power - mostly the wealthy and corporations - who naturally want to defend their own interests even against the common good. Finance reform might help that, but I think there is more to it. We need to teach more history - and more honest history. We need to recognize that the advances we have achieved came from struggle - workers' rights, the vote for women, the ending of first slavery and the Jim Crow. To me, democracy is not a set of procedures, it is a working through, a process. If we opt out, we do so at the risk of giving up ground. The struggle never ends.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
A few people have already took my ideas-get rid of the electoral college and have campaign finance reform. That will make it more of a level playing field for anyone who wants to run. It should not be "he who raises the most money wins." Unfortunately, that is what we have in this country now and that is not true democracy. If we changed those two things, I think the rest of what I think this country should do will happen. Because then, the people who sit in Washington (hopefully) will be thinking of what is good for everyone rather than what is good for just them.
Cat
End Quote
I agree, getting rid of the Electoral College and enacting Campaign Finance Reforms would be a good start.
Technically, we aren't a democracy, we are a Republic. If we were a true Deomcracy we certainly wouldn't have the EC. ;)
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
There is something that I forgot to mention in my last post-instant run-off voting. This is where you pick the candidates in order that you want-rather than just one. If no one gets the majority, than the one who had the least amount of votes is out and all those who voted for that candidate as their first choice, their vote will go towards their second choice candidate. That way, third parties can not be accused of taking votes away.
There is a push in my state to have instant run-off voting. Hopefully, this will happen soon.
Cat
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
There is something that I forgot to mention in my last post-instant run-off voting. This is where you pick the candidates in order that you want-rather than just one. If no one gets the majority, than the one who had the least amount of votes is out and all those who voted for that candidate as their first choice, their vote will go towards their second choice candidate. That way, third parties can not be accused of taking votes away.
There is a push in my state to have instant run-off voting. Hopefully, this will happen soon.
Cat
End Quote
Is this like the old days when you could elect a president, and the guy who lost becomes vice president? I think that is a good idea. It would be an easy way to not concentrate power in one party, and force the two sides to work together.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
This is where you pick the candidates in order that you want-rather than just one. If no one gets the majority, than the one who had the least amount of votes is out and all those who voted for that candidate as their first choice, their vote will go towards their second choice candidate. That way, third parties can not be accused of taking votes away.
End Quote
It's called STV - the Single Transferrable Vote: strangely enough, it's used in Northern Ireland for electing their European Parliament representatives, but is considered too complicated for elections here ???
IMO, STV works best in multi-member constituencies - i.e. you're electing, say, five or six people and each party can put up to that number of candidates. That way you get to select not just which party you're voting for, but what person within that party: it means the electorate has more of a say in choosing their representative, rather than the party.
Spreading the voting around for second/third preferences gets a bit tricky when counting by hand, but that kind of thing could easily be done by computer (have we covered the computerised voting topic already?)
Phil
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
Is this like the old days when you could elect a president, and the guy who lost becomes vice president? I think that is a good idea. It would be an easy way to not concentrate power in one party, and force the two sides to work together.
End Quote
But then it really wouldn't make a difference who you voted for. We'd get negative percentages for turnout.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
Is this like the old days when you could elect a president, and the guy who lost becomes vice president? I think that is a good idea. It would be an easy way to not concentrate power in one party, and force the two sides to work together.
End Quote
That happened one time in the history of the country under the John Adams Administration. T. Jefferson was VP and was from a different party. The two of them clashed so much to the extent that not much got done. Another mistake that JA made was he kept G. Washington's cabinet basically intact and many-especially Alex Hamilton did not JA and work against him. They learned the hard way that that idea does not work.
Cat
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
That happened one time in the history of the country under the John Adams Administration. T. Jefferson was VP and was from a different party. The two of them clashed so much to the extent that not much got done. Another mistake that JA made was he kept G. Washington's cabinet basically intact and many-especially Alex Hamilton did not JA and work against him. They learned the hard way that that idea does not work.
Cat
End Quote
I remembered reading that when congress was electing the first president, John Adams was going to be the clear winner, but for some reason Hamilton went around in private trying to make sure that was not the outcome. Instead they elected Washington. But I was under the impression that Adams and Washington did work together. It is not like the VP would have that much power, but at least the person from the other party would have to hear them.
If politicians are that bad, that they do nothing if they do not get their way, maybe we need to elect better people?
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
If politicians are that bad, that they do nothing if they do not get their way, maybe we need to elect better people?
End Quote
Problem is that the "better people" don't have the $$$ to run. And the folks in charge, on both sides, don't care enough to change that.
So in the end, we have to elect the ones who will suck the least, rather than the ones who will do the best job possible.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
Problem is that the "better people" don't have the $$$ to run. And the folks in charge, on both sides, don't care enough to change that.
So in the end, we have to elect the ones who will suck the least, rather than the ones who will do the best job possible.
End Quote
I remember some Court case a few years back when the legislature or congress tried to limit the amount of soft money in politics, and the Court said that "money = free speech". I think that is the problem. I would love to see a system where the governemnt says "you need 1,000,000 signers on a petition to run for president, after you get that number we will give you 10 million dollars and assign equal time on the major tv networks for you". That way, everyone would have the same amount of money to campaign with and the same airtime.
Plus, I do not like all the negitive ad's in elections anyways. I would eliminate those kinds of ads from television.
The only thing I do like about dirty politics is James Carville and his Wife on meet the press. They remind me of a Siskel and Ebert for politics.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
Problem is that the "better people" don't have the $$$ to run. And the folks in charge, on both sides, don't care enough to change that.
End Quote
I think Rice pretty much hit the nail on the head!
Changing the system for choosing leaders is very difficult because whoever is currently in charge got there by the existing system and will be unlikely to change it.
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
During our last election there werre several candidates for governor. The one I liked best was not likely to win, being an independent. If we used Cat's proposal, I could have voted for him as first choice and the guy I voted for as second. Then when He got knocked out, my vote (second choice) would still count. Or maybe many of those who voted for "the lesser of two evils" would have voted for my first choice, and I might have won.
The idea is that it becomes impossible to "waist" youor vote. I think it is a great idea, and have supported it publically, in letters to the editor of my local paper.
But I think both Taoist and Rice are right. The incumbents are not likely to change the system that put them in power - at least not without a groundswell of popular sentiment.
Subject: Maybe not the government, per se...
I would launch a worldwide chemical war, spraying LSD and psilocybin across the face of the earth, allowing for a bloodless invasion of every nation. Having conquered the world, I would use the drug trade to redistribute the wealth without stealing it from the rich directly, and then call an end to all borders, destroy currency, and set humanity toward working on reasonable and rational goals, like getting the hell off this rock and seeing what else is in the neighborhood.
Has it occurred to anyone else that the problem might be that humanity is going stir crazy?
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Stop the world! I want to get off...
Subject: Re: How could we improve our government?
Quoting:
Stop the world! I want to get off...
End Quote
I like that play. ;)
Cat
Subject: Re: Maybe not the government, per se...
Quoting:
I would launch a worldwide chemical war, spraying LSD and psilocybin across the face of the earth, allowing for a bloodless invasion of every nation. Having conquered the world, I would use the drug trade to redistribute the wealth without stealing it from the rich directly, and then call an end to all borders, destroy currency, and set humanity toward working on reasonable and rational goals, like getting the hell off this rock and seeing what else is in the neighborhood.
Has it occurred to anyone else that the problem might be that humanity is going stir crazy?
End Quote
Yea, starting again somewhere else might be a good idea. Then again, wouldn't we just take all our problems with us?