Quoting:
There has been talk about the Islamification of the West.

I hate all religions.  Islam, Christianity, Judiasm.

They have caused only pain and suffering (for the most part).

The left hates Christianity.  Many do anyway.  They don't want it taught in schools.

The right (a good portion) wants Christianity in all facets of life.  They would like the church to have a bigger say in government, the entertainment industry.

Hmmmm.  A lot of folks on the left support a religious Muslim government in the new Iraq.  But a Christian one?  Forget about it.

I head this lady from the paper The Nation advocating this on the TV show meet the press.

Leftists love non-caucasian people.  They have faced discrimination, so they can do no wrong in their minds.  So the fact that non whites make up the majority of Muslims, makes this a great religion.

I disagree.  Anyone seen that nut Islamic type cleric in England with one eye and a hook hand.  Preaching all this anti Western hatred?

He is using Western freedoms to preach this crap.  The brits are maybe gonna throw him out of their country?

Well how about an open border for America and Europe so we can let lots of Muslims in.  And maybe have two big Islamic run continents?

Heh-heh!
End Quote

I will regfrain from expressing my first reaction to this post - it would be much too inflantory.  But I will respond to it rationally and factually point by point.

Part 1

1. "I hate all religions..."
It is certtainly true that religious intolerance has spawned hatred and violence - and it still does.  But the source is not the religions themselves, since virtuall all preach love and acceptance, but the intolerance of the believers towards non-believers.  In many cases, if one digs deep enough, one finds that socio-economic motivations are being masked by religious zeal.

"The left hates Christianity..."
First off, I'm not sure what "the left" means.  There are so many variations on Left - radical - socialist - Marxist - Maoist - Leninist - .... that to characterize "the left" as a monolith is as bad as charaterizing all those who claim to be "conservative" as being of one mind.
Second, the statement is simply wrong.  To begin, many "leftist" that I know are also sincere Christians who believe that socialism, in one form or another, comes closest to fulfilling Christ's message as they understand it.  The other "leftist" I know don't hate any group as a whole.  Me and my leftist friends are very selective with who we "hate" and try to keep that to a mininum.  
As to not wanting Christianity "taught in the schools", its not only leftists that have a problem with that.  The first amendment gaurantees freedom of - or from - religion.  That means that our public schools, financed by taxes payed by members of ALL religions, should not promote ANY religion.  Private schools SHOULD be able - are - to teach religion as they see fit.

"The right want Christianity..."
There certainly are a group of self proclaimed right wind Christian fundamentalists who believe that the U.S. is a "Christian" country and that they are the ONLY Christians.  Based on the Christians that I know, they are a minority.

Leftist support an Islamic gov't in Iraq:
None that I know of!  In fact, one reason that I OPPOSED the Iraqi war was that whilr it would overthrow a brutal, sadistic, secular gov't, it would, if we allowed "democracy" - the will of the people - to take its course, we would wind up with a fundamentalist Islamic state resembling the Taliban.  And from what I read, the handwriting is on the wall.  How could it be consistant for leftist to oppose the "theocratization" of U.S. gov't and support the development of theocracy in Iraq?  No leftist that I know, or have read, does so, although many, my self included, predicted that outcome.  Prediction is NOT advocacy.

"Leftist love non-caucasion people..."
This defies comment, but some history.  Estimates are that some 3.5 +million Africans who had been "exported" from that continent  reached the Americas, probably about 75% of those loaded in Africa.  Estimates are that the native population of the Americas was +/- 80,000,000 in 1492.  By 1700 that figure was down to +/- 2,000,000.  I have no figures on the population impact of European expansion into Asia.  The leftist that I know understand the histoeical legacy of conquest and imperialism, and TEND to support indiginoius peoples in their struggles for recognition and equality.  

Quoting:
 Anyone seen that nut Islamic type cleric in England with one eye and a hook hand.  Preaching all this anti Western hatred?

He is using Western freedoms to preach this crap.  The brits are maybe gonna throw him out of their country?

End Quote

And in the late 1920's and early '30s there were religioious leaders like Father Coughlin, who advocated fasism for this country, and were protected by the 1st amendment.  While I don't agree with this, or any other religious fanatic, if freedom of speech does not imply the right to freely express that which is unpopular than what does it protect, the right to agree?  On the contrary.  Freedom of speach is the right to freely say, without retribution, that which is UNPOPULAR.  If not that, then it is meaningless.

Quoting:


I will regfrain from expressing my first reaction to this post - it would be much too inflantory.
End Quote

Wow, Don Carlos, you have hit the nail on the head here.  
 

Quoting:
As to not wanting Christianity "taught in the schools", its not only leftists that have a problem with that.  The first amendment gaurantees freedom of - or from - religion.  That means that our public schools, financed by taxes payed by members of ALL religions, should not promote ANY religion.  Private schools SHOULD be able - are - to teach religion as they see fit.
End Quote

This is so true.  I am a Born Again Christian, a Republican and consider myself part of the right.  I understand that Ringer said most of the right not all.  I don't want religion taught in public schools.  It isn't right.  Not everyone has the same belief system and it isn't fair to those children.  If you want your children to learn religion in school, private school would be the answer.

Quoting:

I will regfrain from expressing my first reaction to this post - it would be much too inflantory.  But I will respond to it rationally and factually point by point.
End Quote

I won't refrain  ;D . This guy Ringer is an  who is afraid to use his real identity  >:( . Where did he come up with crap like "the left hates christians and loves all non-whites"?? This guy must have been brainwashed by idiots like O'Rielly and Limbaugh and Liddy. We need more mainstream reporting.

Quoting:


I won't refrain  ;D . This guy Ringer is an  who is afraid to use his real identity  >:( . Where did he come up with crap like "the left hates christians and loves all non-whites"?? This guy must have been brainwashed by idiots like O'Rielly and Limbaugh and Liddy. We need more mainstream reporting.
End Quote

I agree that we need better journalism, although I question "mainstream".  We need an active, independent, investigative journalistic community that is not controlled by a few media giants.  My guess is that this is more like what you meant.

Quoting:
In Islam, regardless of how one interprets justice, Justice does not play second fiddle to profit.
End Quote

Really??

From what I saw on TV, those oil shiek families seem to be awfully wealthy and free, while the muslim on the streets has to cover her head or be punished.

They showed one of the royal families in Saudi Arabia, and their palace was the size of a small city, complete with a movie theater where they watched american movies. Amazing how money equals freedom even for an islamic nation.

Quoting:


Really??

From what I saw on TV, those oil shiek families seem to be awfully wealthy and free, while the muslim on the streets has to cover her head or be punished.

They showed one of the royal families in Saudi Arabia, and their palace was the size of a small city, complete with a movie theater where they watched american movies. Amazing how money equals freedom even for an islamic nation.
End Quote

Unfortunately, this falls under the "Golden Rule" (which is the same in the U.S.) "He with the gold, makes the rules." It has been that way since the beginning of time.


Cat

Quoting:
There has been talk about the Islamification of the West.

I hate all religions.  Islam, Christianity, Judiasm.

They have caused only pain and suffering (for the most part).

The left hates Christianity.  Many do anyway.  They don't want it taught in schools.

The right (a good portion) wants Christianity in all facets of life.  They would like the church to have a bigger say in government, the entertainment industry.

They open the sessions of the USA congress with a Christian prayer.

How would they like a Islamic cleric leading one of these?  Do they open with a prayer in any European countries?  I imagine some do.  But I am too lazy to look it up.

Hmmmm.  A lot of folks on the left support a religious Muslim government in the new Iraq.  But a Christian one?  Forget about it.

I head this lady from the paper The Nation advocating this on the TV show meet the press.

Leftists love non-caucasian people.  They have faced discrimination, so they can do no wrong in their minds.  So the fact that non whites make up the majority of Muslims, makes this a great religion.

I disagree.  Anyone seen that nut Islamic type cleric in England with one eye and a hook hand.  Preaching all this anti Western hatred?

He is using Western freedoms to preach this crap.  The brits are maybe gonna throw him out of their country?

Well how about an open border for America and Europe so we can let lots of Muslims in.  And maybe have two big Islamic run continents?

Heh-heh!
End Quote

Are you talking about Britain becoming a country under Sharia law? That would rock!

Quoting:
Islamification of the predominantly Christian West is as about as likely as the Christianisation of the Middle East, especially when they remain so hostile to each other.
End Quote

I disagree, isn't Islam the fastest growing religion in the world? And as ringer says 'they can do no wrong' so why not join them? It's never been more trendy to be a muslim, ya know.

Quoting:


I won't refrain  ;D . This guy Ringer is an  who is afraid to use his real identity  >:( . Where did he come up with crap like "the left hates christians and loves all non-whites"?? This guy must have been brainwashed by idiots like O'Rielly and Limbaugh and Liddy. We need more mainstream reporting.
End Quote

I dunno. To be fair, one of my pet-peeves about the left is that they are far too PC.

Quoting:


Really??

From what I saw on TV, those oil shiek families seem to be awfully wealthy and free, while the muslim on the streets has to cover her head or be punished.

End Quote

Erm...don't they have to cover their heads in the oil sheikh families too?

Quoting:


I disagree, isn't Islam the fastest growing religion in the world? And as ringer says 'they can do no wrong' so why not join them? It's never been more trendy to be a muslim, ya know.
End Quote

Actually I believe That The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the fastest growing sect of Christianity, faster than Islam!
Also, there are many things wrong with "Muslims".
Islam is a religion that teaches similar things as Christianity.
However many modern day Muslims have thier own interpetations of the Koram (whatever thier "Bible").
Just like every Christian sect, interpets the same Bible differently. Just like Chrisianity used to be a pure religion, till the "Catholics" started coming up with thier own rules, just so they could get money. The original Christian Church pretty much died with the Apostles. Thus, the Dark ages, absence of any true/divine doctrine.
Anyway my point is hardly any of the modern day Muslims are of the same mindset as Mohammed and his early followers.
That is why many feel killing infedels or Christians or Americans is "Justified" by God. While the God Mohammed preached of would never agree with any killing.

Quoting:


Also, there are many things wrong with "Muslims".

...many feel killing infedels or Christians or Americans is "Justified" by God.
End Quote

You've only mentioned one thing there.

Quoting:

Just like Chrisianity used to be a pure religion, till the "Catholics" started coming up with thier own rules, just so they could get money.

End Quote

Not to mention the whimsical creation of Protestantism by Henry VIII. And you could make a passing nod to the Latter Day Saints here too.

Quoting:
Islam is a violent religion.

End Quote

You going to back that up with something?

Quoting:


You going to back that up with something?
End Quote

Like a J'ihad?

Modified to add: That is a joke :D

Quoting:


Really??

From what I saw on TV, those oil shiek families seem to be awfully wealthy and free, while the muslim on the streets has to cover her head or be punished.

They showed one of the royal families in Saudi Arabia, and their palace was the size of a small city, complete with a movie theater where they watched american movies. Amazing how money equals freedom even for an islamic nation.
End Quote

  Sorta beside the point, dontcha think? ;)

  In general, it's not that Islam is above reproach, but that the people criticizing it the loudest don't seem to have much of a clue.

  Some people around here should learn about what they fear. A rational fear is easily managed; an irrational fear can possess a person.

  Look, I'm hardly an expert on Islam, but I do know that the reading I do on religions and similar social phenomena, as with politics, transcends common issues.

Quoting:


Really??

From what I saw on TV, those oil shiek families seem to be awfully wealthy and free, while the muslim on the streets has to cover her head or be punished.

End Quote

This is not quite correct. It is only in certain sects of Islam that the female head covering (I believe it is called the burkha) is compulsory. In the more secular areas of the Muslim world, it's up to the individual as to whether to wear it, or not. Under the Taliban for example, the women couldn't even leave the house without a male family member. In Iraq and Egypt, where a more moderate form of Islam is practised, the rules are somewhat more liberal. Many of the wealthier sheikhs are liberal to the point of being completely secular.