Welcome to the archived messages from In The 00s. This archive stretches back to 1998 in some instances, and contains a nearly complete record of all the messages posted to inthe00s.com. You will also find an archive of the messages from inthe70s.com, inthe80s.com, inthe90s.com and amiright.com before they were combined to form the inthe00s.com messageboard.
If you are looking for the active messages, please click here. Otherwise, use the links below or on the right hand side of the page to navigate the archives.
Subject: Filters on library computers
Yesterday the Supreme Court ruled that filters on library computers are ok and constitutional.
Personally, I can see both sides of the argument.
On one hand, obviously it keeps kids from going in there and staring at porn all day. But on the other hand, the filters are flawed in that they mistakingly ban perfectly harmless material occasionally.
What do you think about them?
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
I hate them. I was looking up research on a school computer about Adolf Hitler, and most of the sites on him were banned. And for some reason, our school also bans Neopets and Candystand. Don't ask me. ::)
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
I understand, and to some extent support the intent of this bill. I agree that there is a social interest in stopping kids from viewing porn. On the other hand, if parents would be up front with kids about sex, and our schools were allowed to present sex education accurately and honestly, kids would come to find it BOOORING. I will refrain from elaborating (aside from Playboy, the first real porn I witnessed was at a fraternity rush. The film (8mm) was ok, but the brothers' response was embarasing).
What distrubs me is that the filters are SOOOO crude that you can't get info on breast cancer or VD, etc when they are activated. I guess I have to join many self proclaimed conservatives on this one and say "get the gov't off my back" but add, put it where it needs to be, ir watching Enron, WorldCom, the off shore tax shelters, and the other dodges the the REALLY rich folks use to avoid taxes. I'll take care of what my kids view on the internet, thankyou.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
i understand both points of view, but i don't really agree with the decision because of what has been said already. the filters block useful info, while often letting through sites with content that is supposed to be blocked.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
I hate them. I was looking up research on a school computer about Adolf Hitler, and most of the sites on him were banned. And for some reason, our school also bans Neopets and Candystand. Don't ask me. ::)
End Quote
>:( ::) ::)That's exactly what makes it so stupid!!!If it hampers research,for school for instance,computers aren't going to be that helpful to schoolkids.Cheers! ::)
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
They say the filters are going to be smarter, but there are always glitches. One time in the library, with the Smartfilter still on, I tried to logon to the NFL website. I mistakenly typed one extra letter on the URL, and I got a site on nude women and women dressed as babies. :o
Needless to say, the filter didn't catch it on time.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Hmmm. Somehow I can't see why there would be a need for there to be filters on computers in the library, since the library is not a day-care center. >:( >:( >:(
Small children should not be in the library at all without an adult being there with them. (I repeat. The library is NOT a DAY CARE CENTER!!!!!) And if an adult is in the building, but not supervising the child it is the same, IMO as not being there at all.
For teens, it becomes different. Yes, most teens are old enough to go to the library unsupervised, that is a given. But most teens I know, also know how to "hack" into filtration programs and get at the porn anyways, not because they want to look at porn, but because they want to prove they can get past the filters.
I was talking to one of the other mothers in my neighborhood about this today, she was all for the filters and wondered why it took so long, she didn't want to worry about her daughter (age 6) accidentlally seeing porn. I asked her how and why a 6-year old is going to the library without a parent or teacher? How did this six-year-old child walk eight blocks and cross two major streets without an adult? And whatever in the world did mom find sooooo important that she could not take the time to actually pay attention to what her child was doing?
As you have probably guessed by now....I am against the filters. No computer program can ever replace the vigilance of an attentive, loving parent. :)
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
But most teens I know, also know how to "hack" into filtration programs and get at the porn anyways, not because they want to look at porn, but because they want to prove they can get past the filters.
End Quote
:-)
That's why I'm putting simple filters on at home: when the children work out how to bypass them, then I reckon they're adult enough to deal with the content they'll get.
Phil
PS I wrote a song about this... Porn in the USA
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
Hmmm. Somehow I can't see why there would be a need for there to be filters on computers in the library, since the library is not a day-care center. >:( >:( >:(
Small children should not be in the library at all without an adult being there with them. (I repeat. The library is NOT a DAY CARE CENTER!!!!!) And if an adult is in the building, but not supervising the child it is the same, IMO as not being there at all.
For teens, it becomes different. Yes, most teens are old enough to go to the library unsupervised, that is a given. But most teens I know, also know how to "hack" into filtration programs and get at the porn anyways, not because they want to look at porn, but because they want to prove they can get past the filters.
I was talking to one of the other mothers in my neighborhood about this today, she was all for the filters and wondered why it took so long, she didn't want to worry about her daughter (age 6) accidentlally seeing porn. I asked her how and why a 6-year old is going to the library without a parent or teacher? How did this six-year-old child walk eight blocks and cross two major streets without an adult? And whatever in the world did mom find sooooo important that she could not take the time to actually pay attention to what her child was doing?
As you have probably guessed by now....I am against the filters. No computer program can ever replace the vigilance of an attentive, loving parent. :)
End Quote
I absolutely agree!!!! nuf said
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Net filters are becoming more and more useless, because clever webmasters are finding better and better ways to get through them. I recently downloaded Mailwasher to help me get rid of spam. This program previews my emails so I can select what to let through and what to delete before my email program downloads it. It correctly identifies a good deal of spam from what is in the mail header, but the headers are getting so vague now it would fool anyone. From a simple "Hi there" to "You didn't return my last mail" to "What do you think about this", spammers and porn peddlers will use anything to trick Net filters. Filters need to become more intelligent to remain relevant.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
To me, these net filters are censorship and I do not believe in censorship. It is up to parents what their kids can and can not watch, listen to, or read-not the government and not whoever comes up with these net filters. If I use a library to do research, I want ALL the information I can get, and if somethings are blocked, I won't know if there is some vital piece of information that I need there. I just wonder how many people actually go to a public library to look up porn on the internet.
Cat
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
To me, these net filters are censorship and I do not believe in censorship. It is up to parents what their kids can and can not watch, listen to, or read-not the government and not whoever comes up with these net filters. If I use a library to do research, I want ALL the information I can get, and if somethings are blocked, I won't know if there is some vital piece of information that I need there. I just wonder how many people actually go to a public library to look up porn on the internet.
Cat
End Quote
You know,I don't think I told anyone this BUT I got caught for showing kids porn.I never knew these kids were actually behind my back.I think this was 8 years ago at my library.The next day,I was told to go into the Police Precinct to have a talk with a detective and he kinda scared me using scaring tactics and he told me if i ever see you again,i will take you to jail! Now,Scram! I stopped going to the library 5 years ago since we now have the internet and I could look up as much porn as I want to without anyone looking over my back. ;D ;)
Howard
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Let me give you the library perspective on this,I'm not sure if this is the case for all libraries as we are a copyright library and have different rules to adhere to.Basically, in our case people have to apply to see certain information and have a darn good case for looking at it. To take leibew15 as an example, if the stuff she wanted to see on Adolf Hitler was unavailable,she would have to prove she was doing legitimate research etc before she would be allowed to view it.One of the sept 11th bombers was using books on bombs and terrorism in the British library shortly before that date and this is also one of the reasons they have tightened things up recently.
I think Howard points out a good reason for banning porn from general use in libraries, the kids themselves might not be looking at it but the man next to them could be ! Sadly not all library employees are as vigilant as they should be either when it comes to keeping an eye on misuse.Recent rulings mean we are legally obliged to inform the police if someone is caught downloading porn and can remove their library card on the spot if they are caught looking at it (oooh the power!!) .
We have a had a few cases of 'unpleasant' behaviour and internet viewing in our library and I find it sad and rather disgusting that people get a kick out of doing these things in public but sadly there are such people out there.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
Sadly not all library employees are as vigilant as they should be either when it comes to keeping an eye on misuse.End Quote
That was my point above. Librarians should not have to be watching and worrying about other people's children. You guys have enough to do.
In my neighborhood branch there are two separate rooms for chilren and adults. Both for books and computers. But not all libraries are set up that way, nor should they have to be.
As to what happened to Howard, I think some people overreacted. He didn't know the children were there, and I'm sure if he did, he would have been more careful. A better response would be to ask him nicely to check whether or not children were around before looking at things of an adult nature....then if it happened a second time, bust his chops.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
That was my point above. Librarians should not have to be watching and worrying about other people's children. You guys have enough to do.
In my neighborhood branch there are two separate rooms for chilren and adults. Both for books and computers. But not all libraries are set up that way, nor should they have to be.
As to what happened to Howard, I think some people overreacted. He didn't know the children were there, and I'm sure if he did, he would have been more careful. A better response would be to ask him nicely to check whether or not children were around before looking at things of an adult nature....then if it happened a second time, bust his chops.
End Quote
8) 8)Some of our libraries have privacy screens,so people can't casually see what you're looking at.They should all have that.I hate people looking over my shoulder! >:(Cheers!
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
it keeps kids from going in there and staring at porn all day.
End Quote
ohhhh........ :'(
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
I thought the whole point of porn was to act as a sexual stimulant? (not that i'd know of course)
Why on earth would you want that happening at the library? Can you imagine how embarrassing it could be?
I'm for some sort of filter, I've gone to sites myself that have nothing to do with porn and had loads of pop ups that I wouldn't want my son seeing if he was looking over my shoulder.....or my mother...she'd slap me whether i'm 36 or not.
I agree parents should be responsible for what their kids look at online but that's not always possible...i've been in chat many times when someone's come in the room saying they're at school...how do the parents stop that?
You'll never stop kids finding porn or anything else they want to look at if they're determined enough but it might stop some stumbling across it accidentally.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
I thought the whole point of porn was to act as a sexual stimulant? (not that i'd know of course)
Why on earth would you want that happening at the library? Can you imagine how embarrassing it could be?
End Quote
Sad to say, that's the reason some weirdos do it. They are "turned on" by the risk of getting caught doing something naughty in a public place. There doesn't need to be any actual....um....'activity'....going on.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
the filters are flawed in that they mistakingly ban perfectly harmless material occasionally.End Quote
IMO, the benefits of a filter far outweigh annoyances like the one mentioned above.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
IMO, the benefits of a filter far outweigh annoyances like the one mentioned above.
End Quote
Benefits: Youngsters can't get access to porn
Downside: Adults are deprived of access to material protected by the First Amendment.
Non-porn sites are filtered, depriving everyone of access to legit info.
And (I hate to bring this up) suppose someone decides that "unacceptable" political sites should also be included, like for example the several Cuban sites (as an extension of the stupiud embargo?).
My fear is that this is a slippery slope. I fear censorship in any form, regardless of how well meaning it may be.
I do understand the concerns people have voiced though.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
Sad to say, that's the reason some weirdos do it. They are "turned on" by the risk of getting caught doing something naughty in a public place. There doesn't need to be any actual....um....'activity'....going on.
End Quote
We did have one reader who did have 'activity' going on amazingly enough when he was challenged by another reader he removed himself to the men's toilets and carried on !! Funnily there were some electricians working in the roof cavity who spotted him in there and were so disgusted they threw water over him before a member of staff alerted by the reader could go and investigate.As you can imagine he had his readers ticket removed. I think he should have been reported to the police too but the university smoothed it all over to avoid the scandal no doubt.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
We did have one reader who did have 'activity' going on amazingly enough when he was challenged by another reader he removed himself to the men's toilets and carried on !! Funnily there were some electricians working in the roof cavity who spotted him in there and were so disgusted they threw water over him before a member of staff alerted by the reader could go and investigate.As you can imagine he had his readers ticket removed. I think he should have been reported to the police too but the university smoothed it all over to avoid the scandal no doubt.
End Quote
??? ??? :-[ :-[Excuse me for asking what may be a silly question,but where were these electricians that they were able to spot the guy? ???Sounds to me like this reader wasn't the only one 'getting off'at the library!!!!!!!!I mean,isnt that what a 'peeping Tom'is/Che :Pers!
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
??? ??? :-[ :-[Excuse me for asking what may be a silly question,but where were these electricians that they were able to spot the guy? ???Sounds to me like this reader wasn't the only one 'getting off'at the library!!!!!!!!I mean,isnt that what a 'peeping Tom'is/Che :Pers!
End Quote
The electricians were working in the roof cavity. I assume they could "look down" and see everything going on in the library.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
As you can imagine he had his readers ticket removed. I think he should have been reported to the police too but the university smoothed it all over to avoid the scandal no doubt.
End Quote
Holy crap, are you saying that someone should get charged for jacking off in the john?
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
Holy crap, are you saying that someone should get charged for jacking off in the john?
End Quote
not in a toilet cubicle - no,but in the middle of the toilet area (which this guy was apparently)in full view - yes and in a reading room full of students definatly YES !! that is the same as a guy in a dirty raincoat flashing at people in the park in my opinion !
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
not in a toilet cubicle - no,but in the middle of the toilet area (which this guy was apparently)in full view - yes and in a reading room full of students definatly YES !! that is the same as a guy in a dirty raincoat flashing at people in the park in my opinion !
End Quote
I think the guy should have been arrested for indecent exposue. On the other hand, how many times does this happen? An analogy - when I want ti kill a fly I use a fly swatter, NOT a sledge hammer. Censorship is bad for democracy and for free inquirey.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Ah, ok. You never know what you're going to walk into in those public washrooms. ;) I wonder why he wasn't arrested? Probably because no one would stick around and give a statement. Typical.
There was a filter on the computer where I worked. I found an easy way to bypass it (NetNanny), it was running on a Windoze XP machine so all I did was bring up the processes window and terminated the NetNanny program from there. Completely bypassed NetNanny's password protection and disabled its logging functions with a single click of the mouse. It was that simple. ;D
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
I don't think filters should be on library computers, and here's why.
Yes, they do ban porn, and that is good. But on the other hand, they also ban stuff that is good, as was pointed out. To add to that, some kids come to the library to work on reports. I know this is kind of different, but my school's computers ban internet searches with the words "sex", "breast", and other words of the like. I know a girl who was doing a report on breast cancer, and the computer wouldn't let her look up info because, obviously, breat cancer contains the word "breast." I myself did an opinion paper on same-sex marriages last year, and the same thing happened to me because I had to type the word "sex"! Even though I am talking about my school's computers, I'm sure the library has the same kind of filters. That really bugs me! And to make matters worse, I was a junior when I did that paper. (I'm now officially a senior) A junior in high-school should be mature enough to type the word "sex" and watch out for porn. Sometimes I wonder if the filters aren't just so little kids don't walk in and see porn while an older student uses the computer, because I refuse to believe that the government thinks all people still in high-school know absolutely nothing about proper behavior. I, for one, am not stupid.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
I know of someone here in the UK who got a ticking off at a conference for looking at porn sites because the main computer had flagged up a warning. In fact she'd been looking at the Essex University site to view her mail.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
I know of someone here in the UK who got a ticking off at a conference for looking at porn sites because the main computer had flagged up a warning. In fact she'd been looking at the Essex University site to view her mail.
End Quote
:o :o :oI wonder how amused the peoplke at Essex are about this?Cheers! ???
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Probably about as amused as the people of Sussex or Middlesex (though what the Duke and Duchess of Wessex make of it, I really don't know ;-))
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
I, for one, am not stupid.
End Quote
Your very thoughtful and intelligent post makes THAT abundantly clear. Hope you are planning on collage. I know that you will find it stimulating and rewarding. Just a friendly suggestion, but you might want to spend more time reading books than playing on the internet. Research is another matter, if you're not filtered. ;) Good luck to you ;D
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
:o :o :oI wonder how amused the peoplke at Essex are about this?Cheers! ???
End Quote
E-ssex? Sounds pornographic to me! ;) Maybe you Brits need to change the names of some of your counties (?) or are they boroughs? esneuter, susneuter? Good Lord, have we come to this? I guess the puritans won. Just kidding. ;)
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Actually,I spend a lot of time reading, too. And I don't just read stories, I write them!
I am considering going to college if I can find the right one. I plan to be a high-school English teacher and write books in my spare time. I just love English, and it's one of my best subjects.
Subject: Re: Filters on library computers
Quoting:
Actually,I spend a lot of time reading, too. And I don't just read stories, I write them!
I am considering going to college if I can find the right one. I plan to be a high-school English teacher and write books in my spare time. I just love English, and it's one of my best subjects.
End Quote
An aside to this thread:
Good for you! I hope your plans work out. I'm sure you will make a fine teacher. GO FOR IT, and all my best for your success.