Quoting:
Hey! One of my people! I'm a small scale socialist. I don't believe that a large scale regulation of our capital will work out. The beauracracy would kill it. I believe in small voluntary socialistic communities where the wealth can be willingly shared.
End Quote

Cool!!!!! I think the USA could use a healthy dose of Socialism. We are one of the only,if not the only,western country not to have free healthcare.

Quoting:
Universal Healthcare is common sense, not socialism.
End Quote

True......and that's why our government will never implement it.

Quoting:
Now back to the question.  I think the neo-cons detest Hillary because she is smarter than they are, articulate, and  committed to the liberal democratic agenda, and she is a woman.  
End Quote

Ok, this offended me, but I am sure that is just me.  In one of those moods ya know. ;)

I can only give my opinion on her.  There is something about her personality that grates on my nerves.  Can't put my finger on it but I don't like her.  It isn't because she is smarter (which I am sure she is considering she is a lawyer...more schooling than I have had).  Now her politics are totally opposite mine.  I don't hate her, though.  Hate is not a good thing and only brings about destruction.

Quoting:

In addition, she and Bill "took" the White House from George I (of course they didn't, we, the voters did).  
End Quote

I don't blame Bill for that.  He won, nuff said. ;D

Quoting:

On the lighter side, have you seen Dick?  It ends with him flying over Wash. over the Watergate complex, looking at a sign held by 2 teenaged girls which said "You suck, Dick".  Very funny film.
End Quote

Yes, I have seen it and this scene made me laugh. ;D

Quoting:
This question is backwards.  It should be "Why does Hillary hate the right?"  It was she who blaimed reports of Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky on a "vast right wing conspiracy."  She seems to blame any problems that the Clintons had on Ken Starr and others on the right, and does not acknowledge that her husband and she created most of their own problems.

End Quote

Amen

Quoting:
The only difference is she's Liberal and smarter.
End Quote

The difference is Hillary thinks this country is great because of the government.  George Bush thinks the country is great because of the individual...

Quoting:
Bush also bought his election and won by his name. So why do you love Bush but hate Hillary? The only difference is she's Liberal and smarter.
End Quote

Smarter?  Relative.  She's certainly clever.  I don't "hate" Hillary, but due to prior events, I will scrutinze her agenda.

Quoting:


I will scrutinze her agenda.
End Quote

Personal agenda? Bought the election? Used name to win election? Sounds like a leftists description of Bush. Is Hillary to the Right what W. is to the Left?

Quoting:

Personal agenda? Bought the election? Used name to win election? Sounds like a leftists description of Bush. Is Hillary to the Right what W. is to the Left?
End Quote

I hate to break this to you but Bush won the election by following the rules. wasn't your leftist friend Gore who tried to get his lawyers to throw out the overseas vote?

Quoting:


I hate to break this to you but Bush won the election by following the rules. wasn't your leftist friend Gore who tried to get his lawyers to throw out the overseas vote?
End Quote

*Yawn* Sure he did. Gore didn't want them thrown out, he just wanted the ones that were incorrectly filled out to be thrown out. Hundreds of incorrectly filled out ballots (without addresses/names and sometimes double votes) were counted in favor of Bush. The media portrayed this as the mean ol' Gore snatching the vote from our servicemen and women. That's right wing BS. Part of that right wing conspiracy we discussed earlier. I'll do my part to forward the leftwing conspiracy. You have fun with the right.

Quoting:

...neo-cons...
End Quote

I wondered how long it would be before someone trotted out this latest addition to the political lexicon...

As to the question, I personally don't hate Hillary. However, I do view her with a great deal of antipathy. The reasons are basically these: she blames the right for everything, and she thinks she knows what's best for everyone else.

Quoting:

As far as the "something" that grates your nerves, I would like to know what that something is. That's why I started this thread.
End Quote

Wish I could tell you what it is.  I don't know myself, I just know that the woman gets on my nerves.  Sorry. :-/

Quoting:
I don't think that I HATE Hillary Clinton, but I know that I would not want her to be a representative of anything for me. Her values and mine are opposites in the spectrum.
End Quote

Could I ask you to elaborate?  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just wonder what you mean by this.  I'll make no presumptions about your values, but I think Hillary's have to do with equal opportunity for all people, things like that.  But maybe you have a different preception of her values.

Quoting:
If you feel so angry about Hillary spending a couple million in tax dollars, you should be furious with W. for spending hundreds of billions of your tax dollars on war. Bush was equally extravagant with his Texas ranch. It has all the latest features!
End Quote

I dotn mind my tax dollars being spent on something I find nessercery...

Quoting:
I don't think that I HATE Hillary Clinton, but I know that I would not want her to be a representative of anything for me. Her values and mine are opposites in the spectrum. Besides the fact that there is something about her that just bugs me...like Dag I can't pinpoint it. And it isn't because she is a strong woman. Please. Strength in a woman is desirable, and admirable.
End Quote

She is the representative of my state...Why did she chose New York?  I hate that woman!

Quoting:
Bush also bought his election and won by his name. So why do you love Bush but hate Hillary? The only difference is she's Liberal
End Quote

um...Bush won fair...Hillary bought the election and got endorcements from LA, even though she was running in NY!  She won by name and sympathy, just like my current congress woman, Carlyn Mccarthy!  Why do I love Bush and hate Hillary...Bush didnt do anything wrong, Hillary has done a lot wrong...Bush didnt win because people felt sorry for him, he won fair...Hillary was the opisite...thats besides all the Liberal views I dotn believe in...

Quoting:

and smarter.
End Quote

yeah right...the only knowlege she has is how to cheat in an election and win... ;D

Quoting:
Hillary and her Husband are both idiots plain and simple. He cheats on her in the White House and she accepts it. Now that's what I call respect for the office. Our forefathers are currently turning in their graves. I'm more Conservitive than Liberal. In my view, most politicians are thieves and liars and politically correct morons. They don't do a damn thing thats right for this country. All they care about is votes. And they will lie, cheat and steal to get them. But yet, all of you argue whose better. Know what I care about? The money I have to pay to these thieves for them to give it away to bums who refuse to work. (sociallism) Get a job bum! For anyone who thinks it's good for our government to take our money and waste it on people who refuse to work is a moron. I for one wish I didn't have to pay taxes, except for miliary purposes and securing the borders from all these criminals. That is a good tax plan. You get to say where your money goes to. I don't want mine going to some crackhead with 10 kids. Or a $200.00 toilet seat. Or for illegal immigrants.

P.S. Speak English.    

Tim
RATT-n-ROLL
End Quote

I agree with Rice...Amen!

Quoting:
Hillary and her Husband are both idiots plain and simple. He cheats on her in the White House and she accepts it. Now that's what I call respect for the office. Our forefathers are currently turning in their graves. I'm more Conservitive than Liberal. In my view, most politicians are thieves and liars and politically correct morons. They don't do a damn thing thats right for this country. All they care about is votes. And they will lie, cheat and steal to get them. But yet, all of you argue whose better. Know what I care about? The money I have to pay to these thieves for them to give it away to bums who refuse to work. (sociallism) Get a job bum! For anyone who thinks it's good for our government to take our money and waste it on people who refuse to work is a moron. I for one wish I didn't have to pay taxes, except for miliary purposes and securing the borders from all these criminals. That is a good tax plan. You get to say where your money goes to. I don't want mine going to some crackhead with 10 kids. Or a $200.00 toilet seat. Or for illegal immigrants.

P.S. Speak English.    

Tim
RATT-n-ROLL
End Quote

Tim For President! :D

You would get my vote. ;)

Quoting:

As for the charges of character assassination, isn't that what you routinely do to President Bush and other conservatives?
End Quote

Actually, I critisize their policies and denounce their hypocracy.  That isn't character assasination as I understand the term.  If I were to say that one couldn't assasinate Mr Bush's character because he doesn't have any, that would be comparable to the things people say about Hillary and Bill, ie a gratuitous and meaningless slam.  I haven't even mentioned his butchering of the English language.  So no, I have not stuped to that level.

Quoting:
So no, I have not stuped to that level.
End Quote

I think you just did.

Quoting:
And where was our Mr. Bush during the war he might have served in?  We all know that the little draft dodger was in the Texas (!????) National Guard, AWOL for a good part of the time (probably snorting coke), and out of harm's way.  A GREAT warrior and a GREAT war hero.  The man really had cojones.
End Quote

Quoting:
This is degenerating to sheer nonsense, vague inuendos, unsubstantiated speculation, and character assasination.  From what I read so far, some of you don't like Hillary but you don't know why.  Fair enough, you have the right to your personal reactions to her as a person.  Others have made unspacific allegation - please specify.  
End Quote

I already posted Hillary's clever home-finance scheme on the first page of this thread.  I could name many other sundry instances... say, from Whitewater to missing official White House china, but I get the feeling you are seeing this strictly as a Democrat vs. Republican issue when, for me, it is actually a matter of an extremely powerful woman who has not established a very good public record for ethics.  

Quoting:


I think you just did.


End Quote

I provided examples of gratuitous and meaningless slams, and specificall said IF I were...

On the other hand, Mr Bush's military and criminal record are well established facts.  To assert them, especially in light of his willingness to send other men's sons to war, and his performance on the Abraham Linclon, is only to point out his hypocracy.  Or are you saying that a polititian's record should not be scrutinized if he is Pres becuase that is character assasination?  If so, than you would have to agree that Clinton's character was not just assasinated.

And I would ask, which is worse, a draft dodging pothead who likes sex or a draft dodging cokenose who suddenly has found God?

Quoting:
This significantly disturbs me, I'll paraphrase:

Hillary Rodham Clinton, as a New York Senator,
now comes under a congressional Retirement and Staffing Plan.  In order for her to establish NYState residency, the Clintons purchased a million+ dollar house in upscale Chappaqua, NY. Now, they are entitled to Secret Service protection for life.  The mortgage payments hover at about $10,000 per month. BUT, an extra residency had to be built within the acreage in order to house the Secret Service agents.  The Clinton's now charge the Secret Service $10,000 monthly rent for the use of said Secret Service residence and that rent is just about equal to
their mortgage payment, meaning that we, the tax payers, are paying the Clinton's mortgage, their transportation,  their safety and security, their 12 man staff, and it's all perfectly legal.
End Quote

Actually, as much as I am no fan of the Clintons, this is an urban legend.

Snopes debunks Clinton myth

Quoting:


...gratuitous and meaningless slams...

End Quote

Which is still what you do to President Bush at every opportunity, and other conservitives as well. It's not the fact that you are critical of them, but the way in which you criticize. If GWB was as big an idiot as you make him out to be, he would be able to do nothing but drool. So it's still a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Quoting:
I provided examples of gratuitous and meaningless slams, and specificall said IF I were...
End Quote

..I think RC was positing your use of the word "stuped" (as opposed to "stooped"), which, if it were intentional, would be really rather witty

Phil

Quoting:


Which is still what you do to President Bush at every opportunity, and other conservitives as well. It's not the fact that you are critical of them, but the way in which you criticize. If GWB was as big an idiot as you make him out to be, he would be able to do nothing but drool. So it's still a case of the pot calling the kettle black.


End Quote

IMHO Mr. Bush IS anintellectual light weight, as demonstrated by his "gentleman's "C"s at Yale and lack of command of the English language.  I think that Rice, Chaney, Powell, Wolfowitz, Pearle, Rove, even Ashcroft, and the others who surround him,  however, are very intelligent.  So I guess, having never actually met the man, I'm not sure that he can "do anything but...".  Those around him, however can, and do very much.

I'm also confused about what some people on this board mean by "conservative", but I guess that should be on another thread.

Quoting:
You conservatives live in a different world. We see things differently. End Quote

Mighty bold statement, young Padawan.  Maybe when you get off the acid you'll see how the rest of "us conservatives" see the world.

Quoting:


Mighty bold statement, young Padawan.  Maybe when you get off the acid you'll see how the rest of "us conservatives" see the world.
End Quote

Don't you love being lumped into one big category?  ;)

Quoting:


Mighty bold statement, young Padawan.  Maybe when you get off the acid you'll see how the rest of "us conservatives" see the world.
End Quote

Not a bold statement. Not meant to be rude. Just a statement of fact. You see things differently than I do, otherwise you would agree with me. Until you snatch the pebble from my hand, I won't start teaching you my ways.

I don't do drugs, by the way. Common conservative misconception: All liberals do drugs. Not true. My highschool was highly conservative and it had one of the highest ratings of drug usage in the area.

Quoting:
My goodness you're an arrogant one :D  Almost makes me wish some big guy gives you a wedgie when you get into college so I don't have to ;D  I'm pretty sure when he's got you pinned down with one buttcheek he'll be able to crush the pebble out of your hand ;)

I don't recall ever having had such an "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" attitude when I was 18.  I guess you really know how to run the world already, with all your life experiences, huh?  I hope somebody knocks some sense into you, John, because if not, I see much ill in your future.  Right now your common sense couldn't fill my Monopoly thimble.

End Quote

Rice, I agree 100%

Young John, like many young people his age, have the  "I can change the world, and oh what a great world it is.  Now excuse me while I tip-toe through the daisies..." attitude.

Most people, not all, but most get their sense knocked into them when they start actually living (ie paying taxes,mortgage, car payment, student loans, etc etc) when they are no longer on mom and dad's payroll.


PS--  and John, before you respond with your usual "I won't become an uptight suit-wearing capitalist blah blah....like you" response, keep in mind: I only wear suits at Easter, Christmas, weddings, and funerals, and I am a happy Capitalist, and proud of it. ;)  Take your Socialism and well, you know...:)


PSS--  Speaking of Hillary:  her book has fallen 8 places since release and has been eaten alive by Harry Potter. ;D (Amazon.com sales rankings)  Perhaps the public isn't as stupid and gullible as she thought.

Quoting:
My goodness you're an arrogant one :D  Almost makes me wish some big guy gives you a wedgie when you get into college so I don't have to ;D  I'm pretty sure when he's got you pinned down with one buttcheek he'll be able to crush the pebble out of your hand ;)

I don't recall ever having had such an "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" attitude when I was 18.  I guess you really know how to run the world already, with all your life experiences, huh?  I hope somebody knocks some sense into you, John, because if not, I see much ill in your future.  Right now your common sense couldn't fill my Monopoly thimble.

End Quote

Rice, I think this is hitting below the belt.  If I were to adopt this attitude with my freshmen, my dean would (rightfully) bust my chops.  To paraphrase Martin L. King, John Harvey should not be judged by the years since his birth, but by the quality of his logic and reason.

You can, and HAVE done better.  Although he has cooled off, 80's still fails to support his opinions with facts, arguments, or analysis, so I have come to expect nothing less from him.  But YOU?  

Quoting:


Rice, I think this is hitting below the belt.  If I were to adopt this attitude with my freshmen, my dean would (rightfully) bust my chops.  To paraphrase Martin L. King, John Harvey should not be judged by the years since his birth, but by the quality of his logic and reason.

You can, and HAVE done better.  Although he has cooled off, 80's still fails to support his opinions with facts, arguments, or analysis, so I have come to expect nothing less from him.  But YOU?  
End Quote

Oh, I know ;)  I guess I should be ashamed, but if you follow the chain of events, HE started it.  He took a swipe at "us conservatives" and I merely gave him some of his own medicine back.  If you know me well enough, you'll know that A) I am better at insulting you and B) I am very loud ;D

But he's so iron-headed you can smack him upside the head with an aluminum bat and he wouldn't budge ::)

Quoting:
After you extend your cyber middle finger you want a debate? Don't think so.  ;D You have the right to fly the bird like anyone else...and so do I.
End Quote

Yes, you both have the right ti "flip the bird", but does that really facilitate discussion?  Shaz, I think JH was reacting to the old tactic of attacking his youth rather than confronting his ideas.  I might add that I was also attacked because of my age, although from the other extreme.  Neither is justifiable, I think you would agree.  

As to your preseption of Hillary as an unprincipled opportunist: You may be right.  I don't think so, clearly because I agree with many of her political positions (although that does not preclude your being right about her character).  I would ask you to please consider how much of your appraisal of her is based on your stand on those issues.

I would also ask you to forgive JH for his "temper tantrum", unfortunate, although I think somewhat justified.

Quoting:
Screw it. I'm done arguing politics.

I don't know how DC has put up with it for this long.
End Quote

JH, Please reconsider.  I once taught a course at SUNY Old westbury in American Studies, and used a text called The Politics of Power,  My political activist brother-in-law told me that the title was redundant, politics is power, and power is politics.  We all need to learn from your fresh voice, and judge for ourselves how nieve or sophisticated, and how valid, your ideas are.  I would hope that they were considered on their merits, but I guess we all have gripes against one another in that area.  You need to stay in the political fray, and grow a thicker skin.

Quoting:


Rice, I agree 100%

Young John, like many young people his age, have the  "I can change the world, and oh what a great world it is.  Now excuse me while I tip-toe through the daisies..." attitude.

Most people, not all, but most get their sense knocked into them when they start actually living (ie paying taxes,mortgage, car payment, student loans, etc etc) when they are no longer on mom and dad's payroll.


End Quote

"Young people"?  Again with the ageist stuff?  To paraphase Howard Zinn (A Peoples' History of the United States the cry of the young may not be practical, but if we do not heed it, we may never understand the balance between the practicle and the ideal.

I have been off the "parents' payroll" since I was 18, worked my way through college in a manufacturing job, and through grad school with my own and my wife's labor.  I also make payments.  What does any of that have to do with the quality of my ideas?  Since we share those obligations, one would think we would agree on politics, and yet we don't.

My point is, object to JH's ideas and beliefs all you like, but stop with the age card.  Confront his ideas head on and  refute them on the basis of fact, reason, and argument, not on the basis of "I'm older and wiser than you you little twit".  That just doesn't cut it.  You are smarter than that, as shown by your thoughtful post on the Woman for Pres thread.  

Quoting:


Oh, I know ;)  I guess I should be ashamed, but if you follow the chain of events, HE started it.  He took a swipe at "us conservatives" and I merely gave him some of his own medicine back.  If you know me well enough, you'll know that A) I am better at insulting you and B) I am very loud ;D

But he's so iron-headed you can smack him upside the head with an aluminum bat and he wouldn't budge ::)
End Quote

Yes, in all do respect, you should.  Usually you have interesting things to say.  JH may have "started it" but so what?  Actually. I think that he responded to condescending posts refering to his age - again.

He may have been wrong in lumping "you conservatives" into one clump.  I must say that I'm not sure what self proclaimed conservatives mean by that.  For some it seems to mean support for "free market" capitalism.  For others it seems to mean (my term) blindless support for the present administration ( I know this does not apply to you).  For others it seems to mean a resistance to social change.  There are also self proclaimed conservatives who use the term as a cloak for racism and sexism,  NOT THAT I HAVE SEEN HERE, but I know some of those.  I think simalar distinctions could be identified for liberals, and certainly for we radicals, but I would point out that self proclaimed conservatives on this board have also lumped us all together as well.  So I have been characterized as "hating government" - I don't, and believing that "all corporations are evil" - I don't etc.  This kind of "strawman" approach to debate can be effective,. if your desire is to "win" but not very effective at finding insight.

Quoting:
I am not particularly sensitive, but I am impatient and I do have a temper. Keep your thick skin. What I need is a longer fuse and some medication.  ;D

I get ticked. I don't get teary.
End Quote

We dude, if you want to get involved in political debate, impatience is the last thing you need.  Get a longer fuse, control your temper, and skip the meds.  Don't get ticked, don't get teary.  Get facts, get arguments, and get reason.

Quoting:
Wow. We've gone through 5 pages and I still don't know why Hillary is so disliked.

I'll find out later. Right now I have to go read Harry Potter.
End Quote

Easy, she's a well known Democrat, and a woman. Two things most conservatives fear above all else. It's much easier for a conservative radio host to say her name and get an instant reaction.

Much like saying the Clinton name in general. Republicans are still talking about Bill, and their guy has been in office for almost three years now. Instead of crowing about what they've done, they complain about the negative stuff their opponent did. It's much easier than trying to point to an accomplishment of their own.

Personally, I always though Bill Clinton was a Republican, and could never figure out why the Republicans didn't support him.

Quoting:


Easy, she's a well known Democrat, and a woman. Two things most conservatives fear above all else. It's much easier for a conservative radio host to say her name and get an instant reaction.

Much like saying the Clinton name in general. Republicans are still talking about Bill, and their guy has been in office for almost three years now. Instead of crowing about what they've done, they complain about the negative stuff their opponent did. It's much easier than trying to point to an accomplishment of their own.

Personally, I always though Bill Clinton was a Republican, and could never figure out why the Republicans didn't support him.
End Quote

I quite agree, but would add that there is a history here.  Republicans have looking to get even for the Tricky Dicky and Contragate thing for a long time.  Bill and Hillary were convienient targets - and DID shoot themselves in the foot.  I also agree that BC was a closet republican, another reason why the Republicans hated him - he stole there thunder.

Quoting:
Wow. We've gone through 5 pages and I still don't know why Hillary is so disliked.


End Quote

Quoting:

As to the question, I personally don't hate Hillary. However, I do view her with a great deal of antipathy. The reasons are basically these: she blames the right for everything, and she thinks she knows what's best for everyone else.
End Quote

All I can do is give you my reasons... you aren't going to get a definitive answer to this question simply because she is disliked by so many people (not just on the right either, I might add)... so there will be a variety of answers.

Quoting:


Easy, she's a well known Democrat, and a woman. Two things most conservatives fear above all else.  
End Quote

Well, just speaking for myself, I don't dislike her for being a woman... I think women are great!!  ;D

Quoting:
OK, to lighten the atmosphere a bit... the cover of the current issue of Private Eye is reasonably apposite to this topic :-)
End Quote

YES, very funny.  Guess the stains on Monica's blue dress suggest that she was mearly an ameture, willing maybe but an ameture none the less.

To the ture of "the dradle song" (its a Jewish toy given at Honikah)

Monika oh Monica you're  lips so inviting
Monika oh Monika your throat so exciting...
The rest is too bawdy for this board.

But what has that to do with Hillary?  Do people dislikw her because she was betrayed?  Or because she was betrayed and "stood by her man" regardless?  I think  not.  I think she has become an icon for everything that the fundamentalist Christians abhore, a powerful, self asserting woman, who is willing to stand up for her beliefs against the WASP men who oppose her.  That makes her dangerous to the "barefoot and pregnant" crowd, IMHO.