Quoting:
Do you think it is time for the U.S. to have a woman president? End Quote

In a word:

NO


as for the "why and why not", I will follow that up in a little bit when I have time to type it all out later.

Quoting:
It worked for us in England with a female Prime Minister!!
End Quote

It depends on your definition of "worked" - we had a mad bat of a PM who was the most unpopular in the job since records began... she failed in a duty of care to the people of the Falklands by letting the Argentines invade when there was plenty of warning, then became this "great" war leader by winning back what she shouldn't have lost in the first place.  The one thing she did to help was break the power of the big unions, and help get a bit of democracy into the union movement.

If Margaret Thatcher is a role-model for a future woman US President, then I say: stay clear of them at all costs.  However, I don't believe most female politicians are quite of the same mould (thankfully).  But.. and it's a big but, I do believe that any woman who actually wants the job shouldn't be allowed to do it - and that applies to men, too.

Phil

Quoting:
will now take tongue out of cheek
End Quote

Mwahahahahaha!!!

Did I fall for that or what?

Phil

Quoting:
What makes a man more capable of doing the job?
End Quote

When I read this, it struck me as slightly more than a rhetorical question... I'd answer: "ego" - more men than women believe they are capable of doing the job (irrespective of their actual capabilities), but that self-belief is essential: you can't have a president taking up the office if they themselves don't believe they're up to the job.

Which is a nice conundrum when put together with one of my earlier posts, about anyone who actually wants to be president not being right for the post.  IOW, you need someone who believes they can do it, but doesn't actually want to

Quoting:To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem End Quote

- Douglas Adams

Phil

Quoting:

Mwahahahahaha!!!

Did I fall for that or what?

Phil
End Quote

Lol sorry Phil, I forget people don't know me here!

Quoting:
I follow Bryan the dog's logic from "Family Guy".

Bryan:I don't care what anyone says. I like Hillary Clinton.
End Quote

He probably just wants to hump her leg ;D

Quoting:Lol sorry Phil, I forget people don't know me here!End Quote

You're very convincing Boris66au!

You had me fooled as well. LOL. I think Thatcher's laws on privatisation was one of the things that many British people get really hot under the collar about!

Quoting:
I was a bit too young to understand the Poll Tax. Was that a little like Council tax but instead of charging a household, they charged individuals in a household?  ???
End Quote

Yep - a "fair" tax in that all people paid exactly the same... each person of twelve squeezed into a flat would pay exactly the same as the millionaire in his mansion.

It became known as the poll tax partly for hisorical reasons, but mainly because the council used the electoral roll to determine who was resident for tax purposes: it caused widespread disenfranchisement especially among students who simply didn't register to vote.

Quoting:
I think Thatcher's laws on privatisation was one of the things that many British people get really hot under the collar about!
End Quote

It's certainly done wonders for our railways ;-)

Phil

Quoting:
Thank you Lord Beeching to start with ?End Quote

Who's Lord Beeching? You've got me with that one!

Quoting:
Not being sexist or raciest here, but nothings ever gonna change, in my opinion.  Every president is gonna be a white protestint male...I dont think it will ever change...
End Quote

I don't know about that.  Back when Clinton was running for a second term, the Repubs wanted Colin Powell to run against him.  I really believe Colin would have beaten Clinton.

Quoting:


I don't know about that.  Back when Clinton was running for a second term, the Repubs wanted Colin Powell to run against him.  I really believe Colin would have beaten Clinton.
End Quote

Back then, I could very easilly have voted for Powell.  Now, he has become little more than a lap dog.  He gave up his principles to retain his position.  For a military man to display such a lack of backbone was very disappointing.  Too bad he couldn't find his cojones and renounce Mr Bush and his idiocy.

But back to the thread.  Why not a BLACK woman for president?  

Quoting:
If that is the case, then a woman or a black or hispanic or anything else you can think of, would NEVER be president because someone has to be first. They did the same thing with JFK-he was the first Catholic president.
Cat
End Quote

thats an excellent point, and well taken.

There is a first time for everything.

But I know for a fact that I am not alone on this, or else there would have been a woman or black president by now, however, I don't think the majority of voters are willing to accept the "excess baggage and distraction" yet.  


One thing I can guarantee, is that Hillary will not be the first woman president.  Speaking of "excess baggage", she carries a truck-load.

Quoting:
I can't believe in this day and age that sex and colour still come into it. Surely it should be judged on the persons capabilities and not the colour of their skin or whether they're male or female.
I'm probably being naive.
I can honestly say I no longer notice what a person is as long as i'm interested in what they have to say.
How well have the white male presidents/prime ministers done in recent history?
I admit I don't follow politics closely, and not being American I don't know how having a black or female president would affect you but if I did live there it wouldn't bother me one bit so long as they made the country better.
A simple view but it's mine.
End Quote

I also think we've gotten in too far by judging people by race or sex over achievments...for example, Affirmative Action...way too far

Quoting:


I don't know about that.  Back when Clinton was running for a second term, the Repubs wanted Colin Powell to run against him.  I really believe Colin would have beaten Clinton.
End Quote

Actually, I want Allen KEys to be president...but it doesn't look like he'll ever win teh nomination...

Quoting:
Surely it should be judged on the persons capabilities and not the colour of their skin or whether they're male or female.
I'm probably being naive.
End Quote

Very naive, Boris - to think that politicians are judged on their capabilities ;-)

...unless you mean how capable they are at winning elections, of course.

Phil

Quoting:
lol you know what i meant.
None of them do what they say they're going to do before they get in anyway so in that respect at least they're all the same.
End Quote

Ah, but I promise, if you elect me every house would be stocked with kegs of your favorite draft, and every backyard filled with spas and trampolines full of scantily clad women (or men, depending on your preference)!  ;D

Of course I'd have to raise taxes ;D

Quoting:
Ah, but I promise, if you elect me every house would be stocked with kegs of your favorite draft, and every backyard filled with spas and trampolines full of scantily clad women (or men, depending on your preference)!  ;D

Of course I'd have to raise taxes ;D
End Quote

Sorry, RC, you're way too honest to be a politician: of course, it should read:
Ah, but I promise, if you elect me every house would be stocked with kegs of your favorite draft, and every backyard filled with spas and trampolines full of scantily clad women (or men, depending on your preference)!  ;D

And I'll cut taxes while simultaneously reducing the budget deficit.  This will all be financed through increased efficiency. ;D

Quoting:

Sorry, RC, you're way too honest to be a politician: of course, it should read:


And I'll cut taxes while simultaneously reducing the budget deficit.  This will all be financed through increased efficiency. ;D

End Quote

Touche, my good Hobbit 8)

Quoting:
I was afraid people would label my reasons as "racist" or "sexist", hence my apprehension to post it.

As wrong as something may be (racism/sexism), simply saying it is wrong doesn't necessarily change the perception and, in many cases, the apprehension of the average person.  

As I said in my earlier post, I would be glad to vote for a woman or black that shared my political views.  However, (again as said in my post), I'm sure the baggage it would bring would far outweigh any positives that may or may not come from it.  

This is the age we live in.



"Sometimes honesty is the most brutal policy."




End Quote

I didn't take your views as either sexist or racist, just a bit on the nieve side. Anyone who is president-whether it be a white male, black, female, whatever, has to have a strong back bone. There is ALWAYS baggage. Look at Bush. It has often been questioned whether he would have been president if it wasn't for his father and brother. There is also Clinton. Not much could be done during his tenure because Ken Starr and the Republicans were trying to investigate his baggage-i.e. Whitewater. It doesn't matter who or what it is. Baggage comes with the job.


Cat

Quoting:
Look at Bush. It has often been questioned whether he would have been president if it wasn't for his father and brother.
End Quote

...it' been questioned?  I thought it was kind of de facto..

:-)

Phil

Quoting:


...it' been questioned?  I thought it was kind of de facto..

:-)

Phil
End Quote

I was trying to be a bit diplomatic unlike a certain president in question.  ;)


Cat

Quoting:
I was afraid people would label my reasons as "racist" or "sexist", hence my apprehension to post it.

As wrong as something may be (racism/sexism), simply saying it is wrong doesn't necessarily change the perception and, in many cases, the apprehension of the average person.  

As I said in my earlier post, I would be glad to vote for a woman or black that shared my political views.  However, (again as said in my post), I'm sure the baggage it would bring would far outweigh any positives that may or may not come from it.  

This is the age we live in.



"Sometimes honesty is the most brutal policy."




End Quote

I didn't take your response as either racist or sexist, and I do follow your logic - I disagree with it, but I do follow it - well argued and reasonable.  Your reasoning reminds me of many situations where people resist change mostly from fear of the unknown.  I don't how old you are, so you may not remember the talk about JFK taking orders from the Pope, which, of course, didn't happen.  I'm reminded of a passage from Avery Craven's essay on the causes of the Civil War.  I don't have it before me but it goes something like "The conservative urge to hold to the staus quo is as dangerous as the fanatic's urge to constant change, and those who profess a belief in democracy must always keep in mind that behind the Constitution stands that other, troublesome document, the Declaration of Independence, with its' call for equality.  Those who fail to pay it heed may learn to their sorrow that the great document was written to justify revolt."

My point is that change is as healthy as continuity, and as necessary to achieve what I think we all desire, a good, just, and equitable society.  So I say again, YES to a woman pres, YES to a black, or hispanic, or Asian (there you go Rice) pres - as long as they support the positions I support.  ;)

Quoting:
So I say again, YES to a woman pres, YES to a black, or hispanic, or Asian (there you go Rice) pres - as long as they support the positions I support.  ;)
End Quote

Can't run ;D  Wasn't born here.

Quoting:


Can't run ;D  Wasn't born here.
End Quote

I'll ask my congressional deligation to introduce a Constitutional amendment to alter that.  The beer (Otter Creek Porter - a local micro brew) and the scantilly clad (could they be nude?) women on the tramploine sounds good.  ;D

Quoting:


I'll ask my congressional deligation to introduce a Constitutional amendment to alter that.  The beer (Otter Creek Porter - a local micro brew) and the scantilly clad (could they be nude?) women on the tramploine sounds good.  ;D
End Quote

I'm fairly certain you won't agree with a lot of my views, especially since I am getting more conservative as I get older ;D

I also think that the article in the constitution dictating natural-born citizenship as a requirement for Presidency is appropriate.  Is there no one more suited to be a President than someone who was born and raised in this country, who loves everything about it since the day he drew his first breath?  :)

Quoting:


I'm fairly certain you won't agree with a lot of my views, especially since I am getting more conservative as I get older ;D

I also think that the article in the constitution dictating natural-born citizenship as a requirement for Presidency is appropriate.  Is there no one more suited to be a President than someone who was born and raised in this country, who loves everything about it since the day he drew his first breath?  :)
End Quote

I may not agree with you politically, but my post was tongue in cheek.  As to your second comment, I have known many people, born outside the U.S., who had a clearer vision of what this country claims to be, than those born within its boarders.

Quoting:


I may not agree with you politically, but my post was tongue in cheek.  End Quote

I'm always tongue in cheek ;D

Quoting:

As to your second comment, I have known many people, born outside the U.S., who had a clearer vision of what this country claims to be, than those born within its boarders.
End Quote

Depends on what your "clear vision" entails then, eh?  ;)

Quoting:


Can't run ;D  Wasn't born here.
End Quote

Oh sure. Make campaign promises you can't keep. See, you are already on your way to being just like everyone of our elected officals.  ;)



Cat

Quoting:


The beer (Otter Creek Porter - a local micro brew) and the scantilly clad (could they be nude?) women on the tramploine sounds good.  ;D
End Quote

I don't care about the beer but should I be jealous with those women?  ;)



Cat

Quoting:


Oh sure. Make campaign promises you can't keep. See, you are already on your way to being just like everyone of our elected officals.  ;)



Cat
End Quote

Well, y'see, if they DID mistakenly put me into power (which won't be for at least 11 years) I would certainly get you your very own cabana boy :D

Quoting:


Well, y'see, if they DID mistakenly put me into power (which won't be for at least 11 years) I would certainly get you your very own cabana boy :D
End Quote

Well, if DC can have his naked women on a trampoline, that I can have my own cabana boy-yum. Hey, what is good for the gander is good for this goose.  ;)


Don't worry DC, I still love you.  :-* :-* :-*


Cat

Quoting:



Well, if DC can have his naked women on a trampoline, that I can have my own cabana boy-yum. Hey, what is good for the gander is good for this goose.  ;)


Don't worry DC, I still love you.  :-* :-* :-*


Cat
End Quote

No sweat.  By the way, if you get to be prees will that make me "first man"?  And I'll see you later in the...

Quoting:


Who's Lord Beeching? You've got me with that one!
End Quote

Sorry Bobby, allow me to explain....

About 15 years before you were born, Lord Beeching was comissioned by the British Government to examine how to make British Rail more viable.

Amongst his many recommendations was to close a great percentage of branch lines down.  Which co-incidentally was exactly what the Government wanted to hear !  Surprise !  ::) >:(

In hindsight it has generally been considered to be the start of the decline of your railway system which of course has been made so much better with privatisation  ::) ::) ::)

I realise that this is a little off track (pun intended) from the original topic, my apologies, I felt I owed Bobby an explanation...

FB  ;)

Quoting:
Naked woman on a trampoline? That would make things very bouncy.
End Quote

Could be  ;)  ;)  ;)

If Cat were pres, they could also be cabinet secretaries  ;D

Quoting:


Could be  ;)  ;)  ;)

If Cat were pres, they could also be cabinet secretaries  ;D
End Quote

Sorry Honey, but if I were pres, I would want women with a little more brains for my cabinet secretaries. That is not to say that they will NOT be beautiful, just a not naked. We really don't want them distracting everyone.  ;)


Cat

Quoting:
In a world without mass media and stereotypes defining nearly every aspect of everyday life, a woman or even a black president would be no big deal.

However, in the world we do live in today, I think us electing the FIRST woman president, or the FIRST black president, would bring about more baggage and distraction than anything.

Think about it this way:  ANYTIME the American govt in general is in the news regarding a critical or influencial decision, it will ALWAYS be prefaced with a reference to the fact it was the "first womanto do that..." or "first black president to do that..." etc etc, and questions and criticism will ALWAYS be raised as to whether they are qualified or justified simply because its a "new thing" electing a woman or black president.

If there was some way to guarantee that the transition from a male to female president, or a white to black president would not be regarded as a huge international incident mentioned in virtually every news headline for the entire 4 year term, this wouldn't even be an issue at all. But obviously, unless you are completely naive, you know that it would.  

In every election since I was age 18, I vote for the person who also shares my political ideals. I am not saying, by any means, that there aren't any woman or blacks who aren't qualified for the job, I am saying, however, that I don't know if its worth the baggage and extra weight it would bring along with it.
End Quote

Why do you allow the media to affect how you percieve a woman/black candidate? Why would it matter if the media made a big deal out of it? You can't hold back change because it inconveniences you with its "baggage".

Perhaps we shouldn't have gotten rid of Jim Crow or Slavery. They brought an awful lot of baggage, didn't they?

I say 'Break the color/gender barrier now before it becomes even more of an issue'.

Quoting:

Why do you allow the media to affect how you percieve a woman/black candidate? Why would it matter if the media made a big deal out of it? You can't hold back change because it inconveniences you with its "baggage".

Perhaps we shouldn't have gotten rid of Jim Crow or Slavery. They brought an awful lot of baggage, didn't they?

I say 'Break the color/gender barrier now before it becomes even more of an issue'.
End Quote

The one thing I can say for GWB is that he DID appoint a black Sec't of State and a black woman as National Security Advisor.  Too bad the first turned out to have lost his guts when he became a civilian and the other is a neo-con.  So on some levels, the race/gender barriers are falling.  Not far enough yet to my mind, but they ARE falling.  And its about time!

Quoting:
I wouldn't mind seeing a black naked woman on a trampoline!  ;D
End Quote

LMAO


Cat

Quoting:


The one thing I can say for GWB is that he DID appoint a black Sec't of State and a black woman as National Security Advisor.  Too bad the first turned out to have lost his guts when he became a civilian and the other is a neo-con.  So on some levels, the race/gender barriers are falling.  Not far enough yet to my mind, but they ARE falling.  And its about time!
End Quote

Makes it sound like you think the only "good" minorities are the ones who agree with you :-/

Quoting:


Makes it sound like you think the only "good" minorities are the ones who agree with you :-/
End Quote

Sure does, doesn't it?

Quoting:


Makes it sound like you think the only "good" minorities are the ones who agree with you :-/
End Quote

Not at all.  I respect Condi because she has been consistant with her agenda and is VERY bright.  Lost respect for Powell because he disagreed with the Iraqi adventure, but knockled under to the hawks to keep his job.  Of course I prefer people who agree with me to be in office, but that, my friend is politics - que sera sera.  I would guess that you feel the same way.  I'll support anyone I agree with and speak out against anyone I disagree with, regardless of race, creed, or ethnicity.  To me, those are irrelevant to politics.  So again, I respect Condelesa Rice for being up front and consistant.  I did lose respect for Colin Powell though.

Quoting:
I'd love to see a woman president! We had a female Prime Minister here in the Great White North for about 20 minutes once and she rocked IMHO!!
End Quote

20 minutes? That's it?
I thought it was like 6 months or something?

Quoting:
At first, I was like "No way we should have a woman Pres because she would be too sensitive and emotional".

Then, I thought that maybe this is what my country needs.

My country needs a woman to turn things right-side up!

That is the sure-fire way to cause a change for the better in the U.S., IMO.

The guys had their chance. :P


End Quote

For over 200 years  :-X

Quoting:
I think it's time the guys stepped aside. Wouldn't it be such a relief, guys? We wouldn't have the responsibility of pretending to run things anymore. Women have run everything for ages and have let us believe that us men were in charge. They let us think we were "head of the household". I think it's time we acknowledged the fairer sex's ability to govern.

All in favor, say "Aye" and let's go watch the baseball game.
End Quote

Oh whatever! Women have NOT been in charge and it shows. Just like a man. Make a mess and THEN ask the women to clean it up.  ;D

Quoting:
Men exist for three reasons. To reproduce, to reach high things, and to open pickle jars.
End Quote

Good gravy, John, you must have some kind of self-hate complex going :D

Quoting:
Men exist for three reasons. To reproduce, to reach high things, and to open pickle jars.
End Quote

If I need a pickle jar opened, I can do it myself. If I need to reach high I can stand on something. And men exist for more than just "reproducing". But I can't go into that on THIS forum Muhahahahahahahaha!

Quoting:
Men exist for three reasons. To reproduce, to reach high things, and to open pickle jars.
End Quote

You forgot two other reasons-lawn maintainace and car maintainace.  ;D (There is also that little job of taking out the garbage too.  ;))


Cat

Quoting:


You forgot two other reasons-lawn maintainace and car maintainace.  ;D (There is also that little job of taking out the garbage too.  ;))


Cat
End Quote

Geeze Cat, I hope I'm valued for more than mowing the lawn and taking out the garbage  ??? I think I'm able to to more than that  ;) (like sail the boat that scares the s... out of you, keep the house warm in winter etc.  I could go on without touching on the "private" room). ;D

But as I have said before, sure a woman president, and a "black" one as well (just NOT Condi Rice - could never vote for her).

Quoting:
Well, honestly, I don't do much else around the house than what I and Cat listed above (minus the car and the reproduction bit). I also make my parents laugh. It's always intentional, mind you.

There was actually an article that might explain how humans got their large brains. The females seemed to find witty and clever males more attractive. It's only a theory, but how else can you explain why I have evolved to be able to do a perfect Jimmy Stewart impersonation. I tell ya, the girls are all over me!  ::)
End Quote

From what I read, And I'm no expert, it had more to do with providing for those helpless little ones than impersonating Jimmy Stewart, but if that gets you where you want to go, go for it - More Power To You ;)

Quoting:


Geeze Cat, I hope I'm valued for more than mowing the lawn and taking out the garbage  ??? I think I'm able to to more than that  ;) (like sail the boat that scares the s... out of you, keep the house warm in winter etc.  I could go on without touching on the "private" room). ;D

End Quote

Ok, ok. Maybe SOME men are worth a little bit more. Besides, you are a WONDERFUL cook.  ;D  Maybe once I get to the White House, I will hire you as a cook.  ;)  (Just kidding-you will be the first First Man.  ;))



Cat

Quoting:


Ok, ok. Maybe SOME men are worth a little bit more. Besides, you are a WONDERFUL cook.  ;D  Maybe once I get to the White House, I will hire you as a cook.  ;)  (Just kidding-you will be the first First Man.  ;))



Cat
End Quote

You GO girl!  :)

Quoting:
Oh whatever! Women have NOT been in charge and it shows. Just like a man. Make a mess and THEN ask the women to clean it up.  ;D
End Quote

I think I might be repeating myself here, but the problem isn't so much that "men" are in charge, it's the men who are in charge - there's no point in just getting a woman to do the job, if it's not the right woman: just take Thatcher, for example.

Unless we change the way these people are chosen, you'll get somebody chosen for their ability in front of a TV camera, their ability to besmirch their opponent and their ability to cover up... not their ability to do the job.  IOW, until a suitably democratic voting system is used, and used by a public who have the drive to investigate past the political smokescreen thrown up by the parties and the politically-motivated mass-media - it simply doesn't matter whether it's a man or a woman doing the job, you can pretty much guarantee the wrong person's been chosen.

Phil

Quoting:


Ok, ok. Maybe SOME men are worth a little bit more. Besides, you are a WONDERFUL cook.  ;D  Maybe once I get to the White House, I will hire you as a cook.  ;)  (Just kidding-you will be the first First Man.  ;))




Cat
End Quote

Yeah, and I'll suprevise the kitchen staff, right?  I'll also manage the travel arrangements - and insist that we use the Puerto Rican air lines ( ;)) so we'll start with another "travelgete". ;D

But this is suppose to be a serious thread!???