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Subject: Give Me A Break!
A judge overturned a death penalty sentence because the jury consulted the Bible. Outrageous! ::)
http://news1.iwon.com/odd/article/id/160859|oddlyenough|05-25-2003::09:05|reuters.html
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Tough call...Christians should try to follow the bible, but wouldn't a case like this be considered part of the government and there should be a separation of church and state. At least the whole case wasn't thrown out.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
I don't think separation of Church and State was the issue here. I assume the issue was whether consulting the Bible constitutes a violation of sequestering of the jury. I doubt that it does, but the law interprets it in different ways. I believe the judge was attempting to play God, and that worse that consultation, IMHO.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
I just hope they appeal this. There have been a few trials that I have read about where jurors quoted the bible in their reasoning - but didn't rely on it for their decision. I can't imagine a judge letting them overturn a DP case! It should have been based on hard evidence, as in "facts", not scripture from the Bible. :-/
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Quoting:
It should have been based on hard evidence, as in "facts", not scripture from the Bible. :-/
End Quote
p.o.p's right, the jury should not make there decision on the Bible; but on evidence.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
But I do believe that the original decision of "Guilty" was based on facts. The penalty phase should have been based on that it was a heineous crime in which the convicted person showed no remorse, which in this case, it was.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Hmm..
I have to wonder why the jury picked the 'eye for eye' quote which seems to promote the death penalty but not the 'thou shalt not kill' part which expresly forbids it?
It seems to me that they had made their descision and were simply trying to justify it.
I wonder what people would think if the sentencing jury consulted the Koran (or even Lord of the rings)
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Quoting:
I wonder what people would think if the sentencing jury consulted the Koran (or even Lord of the rings)
End Quote
:-) ...or even Silence of the Lambs?
And Lord help the defendent if they've been reading anything by Stephen King
Phil
PS There's lots of places in the bible (OT) where, if you like "judicial" death sentences are mandated - I've a theory that the use of methods like stoning to death was a way of getting round the commandment: rather like the firing squad, you don't know who actually did the killing.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Quoting:
PS There's lots of places in the bible (OT) where, if you like "judicial" death sentences are mandated - I've a theory that the use of methods like stoning to death was a way of getting round the commandment: rather like the firing squad, you don't know who actually did the killing.
End Quote
Yeah, well God must be pretty easy to fool ::)
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Quoting:
Yeah, well God must be pretty easy to fool ::)
End Quote
Well, if you subscribe to that "all-seeing, all-knowing" theory, then it obviously won't make a difference (especially if God watches CSI)... but don't forget: men (and I mean that in the gender-specific sense, not just the species) wrote the bible: irrespective of whether it is the word of God or not, it was filtered through human writers, so you'll get quite a bit of their confusions and idiocies thrown in.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Quoting:
And Lord help the defendent if they've been reading anything by Stephen King
Phil
End Quote
Oh the visuals. Thanks for the laugh, Phil. ;D
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
No, but men certainly are. That's why we have all these interpretations of the Bible.
And Phil, the Bible is the true Word of God. Just because people try to twist the meanings for their own benefit does not mean it isn't what theologians claim it to be.
Quoting:
Yeah, well God must be pretty easy to fool ::)
End Quote
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Quoting:
And Phil, the Bible is the true Word of God.
End Quote
I guess here isn't the correct spot for debate... if you'd like to step outside... ;-)
Phil
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
I haven't looked up the text, but at one point Frodo says to Gandalf that it was a pitty that Bilbo didn't kill Gulum when he had the chance. Gandalf's response was something like "can you restore life? Then be not to hasty in dealing out death." I am generally opposed to the death penalty - does this surprise anyone? It is not a deterent and, after all the appeals, is more expensive than life. I also think that life in prison - a not nice place - is worse than lethal injection. In addition, lots of "condemned killers" have been exhonorated by DNA evidence not available when they were convicted. AND, there is an old saying "capital punishment - those without the capital get the punishment".
As to the Bible - it is so replete with contradictions as to be almost incomprehensible, and so full of stuff we would consider absurd that I find it hard to take it seriously, except as history. Anyone who cares to disagree, just say so and I'll give you lots of examples by way of a letter I wrote to my local paper. I mean no disrespect for those of you who believe in it, and I do respect Christian and Jews who use it as a guide to behavior, but those who do interpret.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Quoting:
I also think that life in prison - a not nice place - is worse than lethal injection.
End Quote
Sorry DC, but I would have to disagree. There are prisons in this country where it is actually pleasant for inmates to live (I have toured some myself). They get 3 free meals a day, free Cable TV, a free bed to sleep in, free membership to the "prison gym & rec facilities", etc. These are things that some of these inmates wouldn't be getting half of, if they were on the street. And as for their families....well, do you think they gave a crap about their families when they committed the crimes to begin with? I don't think so. So, hey...life in Prison may not be Trump Plaza, but it sure beats sleeping hungry & cold in an alley. ;)
So yeah, I am all for the Death Penalty. :)
Modified to Add: I don't know if some of you know this or not, but MOST death-row inmates in this country are treated better & respected more by prison officials then say, someone who isn't on DR, because these corrections officers know the inmates well & know they will die in prison. So, no...it's not all that bad for them on the inside.
I was able to go on a VIP tour of "Super Max" in Colorado and I have to say, I was VERY surprised at how much these DR inmates were catered to.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Hay Pop,
I have to acknowledge that your experience is much better than mine, having never been to a jail or prison, or IN one. I just can't imagine living a life without hope of ever seeing the Grand Canyon, or Yellowstone, or Yosemite, or the Big Sur, or... again, or being able to walk to the local store for... I guess freedom, in all its aspects, is more important to me than material existance. So if I was in that situation, life forever cercumscribed and controlled by others, or end it, I think I would chose the latter. But it is a personal thing.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Leftist stance:
Death penalty= bad
Religion + State= bad
Religion + State - Death penalty= System error!
Um... I'm torn, but I think I have an answer. Death penalty is bad, but it can't be disposed of because of religion. There we go! I'm better now.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
Quoting:
Hay Pop,
I have to acknowledge that your experience is much better than mine, having never been to a jail or prison, or IN one. End Quote
For the record: I have never been incarcerated! HAHA! God, I hope that's not what people were thinking reading my post! ;D Let's just say, I have experienced it from the OTHER side of the bars. ;)
And DC, I respect your opinions & point well understood.
Subject: Re: Give Me A Break!
I do a lot of work with and inside prisons, by and large making sure that the people who get out are the ones who ought to be getting out (staff, visitors and prisoners who have finished their sentences): I've been in twenty or more - enough to know I wouldn't want to be locked up inside one irrespective of how "well" it seems like prisoners are treated.
A life sentence with no possibility of parole is horrible - seeing the same things, day after day after day for the rest of your life... personally, not having any religious hang-ups about suicide being a sin, I think that prisoners on life sentences ought to have the option of the death penalty - but (and this is the important bit) decide on it themselves - there have been way too many miscarriages of justice for me to believe the death penalty as practiced in many places round the world is a good idea, and once someone's dead it's a bit late to realize the police investigation was compromised.
However, if someone decides they can't face the tedium of thirty, forty or however many years ahead of them in prison, why should we have the right to deny them a bit of dignity in death?
Phil