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Subject: Article about the slow death of the Internet
well, it isn't really the "death" internet use has been declining since the tech bubble burst, but now it seems our freedoms are being taken away.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/30733.html
Internet is dying - Prof. Lessig
By Andrew Orlowski in San Francisco
Posted: 15/05/2003 at 21:33 GMT
The Internet is dying, says Lawrence Lessig, a law professor with a cult following amongst technophiles.
Lessig is mobilizing against the FCC's relaxation of media controls which will leave most of the United States' professional media outlets in the hands of a tiny number of owners. In FCC chairman Michael Powell's vision, Old Man Potter can own every newspaper, radio station and TV channel in Pottersville.
The move, which has even been criticized by former FOX and Vivendi executive Barry Diller, would return the mass media to a state even turn of the century robber barons couldn't have wished for.
But drawing an important parallel, Lessig argues that the relaxation of media controls for the latter-day robber barons bodes ill for open computer communications.
"The Internet is dying," he writes, launching a torpedo at the heart of techno-utopian mysticism by questioning the belief that all will be for the best in all possible worlds.
Writing an introduction to the centenary edition of Orwell's 1984, Thomas Pynchon describes The Internet as "a development that promises social control on a scale those quaint old 20th-century tyrants with their goofy moustaches could only dream about".
Lessig is more subtle, but points us the same way.
"When the content layer, the logical layer, and the physical layer are all effectively owned by a handful of companies, free of any requirements of neutrality or openness, what will you ask then?"
The vandals stole the handles
The Internet is dying in ways that Lessig doesn't enumerate, too. You only have to step outside tech-savvy circles to see what a massive disappointment the modern tech experience is for most people: many of whom are your friends and relatives.
What does the Internet mean to these folks, now?
It represents a perfect tragedy of the commons. Email is all but unusable because of spam. Even if our Bayesian filters win the arms race against the spammers, in terms of quantity as well as quality of communications, email has been a disaster. imho not really, it's been around for 20+ years and has been quite useful, though I don't use it as much to keep in touch anymore
(An architect friend tells me that email has become the biggest productivity drain in his organization: not just the quantity of attachments, but the mindless round-robin communications, requesting comments that get ignored. Email has become a corporate displacement activity.)
Google has its own spam problems: a tiny number of webloggers and list-makers whose mindless hyperlinks degrade the value of its search results, and create the Web equivalent of TV static.
Basic web surfing means navigating through web sites whose inspiration for their baroque overdesign seems to have been Donald Trump's wedding cake, all the while requiring the user to close down dozens of unrequested pop-up advertisements. (Yes, we know the tools to turn off pop-ups, but the vast majority of IE users don't have that luxury, and their patience has already been tested to the limit.)
And most of all, The Internet means sitting at noisy and unreliable machines that would land any self-respecting consumer manufacturer with a class action suit.
What's dying here isn't The Internet - it remains as open as ever to new software and new ideas. Remarkably, the consensus that upholds the technical infrastructure survives, in the form of the IETF, despite self-interested parties trying to overturn it. What's dying is the idea that the Internet would be a tool of universal liberation, and the argument that "freedom" in itself is a justification for this information pollution. It's probably reached a tipping point: the signal to noise ratio is now too low.
Users are not stupid. The 42 per cent of US citizens who Pew Research tells us have no interest in logging on and "blowing their minds" are simply making a sensible choice.
Free to do what?
Lessig seems to have completed half the journey from promising Republican lawyer to mature political economist - but the last part of the journey will be the hardest. It involves unwiring some stubborn philosophical assumptions.
"'Won't unlicensed spectrum guarantee our freedom?'" asks Lessig's interlocutor, appropriately enough, one 'Dr.Pangloss'.
Well, we suppose he means that's "freedom" in the sense of push-button buzzword, where "freedom" is an end in itself.
There's a slight problem with this. Freedom isn't an absolute: it's whatever we decide it to be. Deny absolute freedom to a small number of people to set employment conditions, and you can give the vast majority of people a three day weekend. Result: happiness. (Maybe) And 'freedom' as a justification for deregulation - which gave us the Internet - hardly inspires confidence for the future wireless in the United States.
An exercise for the reader: trace how the same buzzwords that propelled the last irrational bubble - "freedom", "choice" - are the same buzzwords behind the wireless bubble. But such concepts are complex, possibly eternal social mediations and involve more than pushing a few buttons. But hey, no one said it would be easy.
The most popular technology in the world - thanks to its low cost and high communications value - is the cellphone. This is derided by the 'freedom' lobby because it's regulated spectrum (boo!), and not an 'open' network (hiss!), and yet it delivers a tremendous social utility. The latest generation of phones impresses me not because they can run irc or ssh, which they do splendidly, but because I can send a photo to relatives with three clicks on a device costing less than $100. A small parcel of happiness, there.
Now contrast that with the tragedy of the commons we described above.
Back to Lessig, answering 'Pangloss'. Only a small chunk of spectrum will be "freed", notes Lessig, but, "to the same companies, no doubt".
So long as the United States' techno-utopians seem to be obsessed with infrastructure plumbing as the British are obsessed with toilets, with means rather than ends, Lessig faces an uphill battle. Guiding US policy to create an infrastructure that provides utility to the people, rather than a handful of ideologues, is going to be Lessig's greatest challenge.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
I wouldn't say the Internet is dying. It's just being misused. Search engines are being clogged up with links to blogs that have nothing useful to say, spam is getting so bad that governments are trying to find ways to prosecute organisations that send it and the whole thing is being supported by the porn industry and online gambling. The internet is the most advanced form of communication and education ever devised, but most people use it to clog bandwidth by repeatedly sending the same tired old jokes, looking for nudie pictures and posting crap on message boards.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
jj65, the internet will never die.
Sure its not the same as it used to be, say even 5 years ago, but its still growing, and will keep growing for a long long time.
You can virtually acces anything on the interent from TV shows to movies to radio to music etc etc. Its an astronomical industry with astronomical profits and possiblilty.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
true, the whole net is a quagmire
message boards like this have been around forever, and they'll survive
I predict that within 3 years you're going to see some serious restrictions when it comes to Internet use. There might be privatized internet, or you might have to log on to some govt. server that will track your progress around the net and bill you as you go, it will also filter out any "undesirable" websites. That will discourage a lot of people and they'l just log out for good!
the people running the show see that uncontrolled growth of the net is a bad thing, where has it led us? the bursting of the net bubble has led to a recession. That's why the internet's growers are going to put a cap on the internet.
This is what's coming in the Patriot Act 2 I think
But I'll still be here, chatting on the message boards just like I always do! ;D
this is sort of a heads up as to what's about to happen, and it's happening now. So don't get too attached to the freedoms of the net because they're slowly eroding.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
I don't think the internet is dying.Just maybe there isn't enough things to do on it.Like some music sites from 3 years ago are gone cause they had to pay royalities and it's costing a lot for them to keep it up.
Howard
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
this is sort of a heads up as to what's about to happen, and it's happening now. So don't get too attached to the freedoms of the net because they're slowly eroding.
End Quote
jj65, I can't figure out why you are so determined the internet is dying.
Like Jamminoldies said, a few things have gone away, not because the "internet is dying", but because of financial concerns.
The internet is huge, and getting huger(is that a word?) as I type this sentence.
The number of internet-related resources is growing at a phenominal rate every year. And will continue to do so. True some of the original internet things have gone away, but they are only replaced by better things.
So don't call it dead quite yet, its only 2003. ;)
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
TV was really big back in the 50s, wasn't it? It's not dead yet, is it? ???
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
TV was really big back in the 50s, wasn't it? It's not dead yet, is it? ???
End Quote
thats true.
And when the TV first came out for public use, they thought it would never replace the fabulous radio.
Now look where we are, digital HDTV with 100's of channels beamed down from space via satellite.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
I said this awhile back on this board.....if anything, the Porn Industry will keep the Internet alive & kickin'. And if you don't think any of those big "Government Pinheads" aren't spending any money or time on such websites, think again. ;)
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
The internet will not die, but the internet will not be what we wanted it to be.
use & content have steadily declined since 1999, that never happened with TV.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
The internet will not die, but the internet will not be what we wanted it to be.End Quote
I'm having a hard time following what you are trying to get across.
What did you "want it to be"?
Instant news? Instant music? Instant multimedia? Instant worlwide communication? Instant commerce(ebay etc)? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then your argument holds not an ounce of water.
Quoting:use & content have steadily declined since 1999, that never happened with TV.End Quote
So what?
When TV came out, it was deemed a definite failure.
I remember when internet first started to become popular with the average household, and I never thought it would be anything big. In fact, I didn't even log on for the first time until 4 years ago. And since then, the internet has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger....and better as far as I'm concerned(except for popup ads >:()
Just because the number of new subscribers has declined and the content on the web have changed, doesn't mean it is on its way down.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
what we wanted it to be is a huge money maker!!! But it's turned out to be a sort of phantom bubble that burst. That sort of helped us plunge into this recession. Do you believe the govt. is going to be fooled by another phantom tech. bubble. No way, that's why the net is being capped.
by the way, TV was never deemed a definite failure, because movies were already a big success. And TV grew beyond the bounds of censorship. That's not happening with the net. The internet is seen as dangerous by the government, it's seriously hurting the music industry. That's why it's being capped and controlled. The whole point it "too much Freedom is dangerous"
instant news was around for years on the net, since the late 80's. What's the big deal. Most people don't trust it anyway. And more and more newspaper sites are starting to become pay sites, you can't read the "official" news without some sort of membership.
instant commerce was a sham, it's unreliable and dangerous. I never buy anything on the net, and that goes for most people. Go out during the holidays and the malls are getting more and more crowded every year, most people don't shop in front of there computer.
instant music and instant multimedia is not as abundant as it used to be, instant music is being phased out. Within 2 years it will be gone. That's the way it's going to be. It's happening right now.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
what we wanted it to be is a huge money maker!!! But it's turned out to be a sort of phantom bubble that burst. That sort of helped us plunge into this recession. Do you believe the govt. is going to be fooled by another phantom tech. bubble. No way, that's why the net is being capped.
by the way, TV was never deemed a definite failure, because movies were already a big success. And TV grew beyond the bounds of censorship. That's not happening with the net. The internet is seen as dangerous by the government, it's seriously hurting the music industry. That's why it's being capped and controlled. The whole point it "too much Freedom is dangerous"
instant news was around for years on the net, since the late 80's. What's the big deal. Most people don't trust it anyway. And more and more newspaper sites are starting to become pay sites, you can't read the "official" news without some sort of membership.
instant commerce was a sham, it's unreliable and dangerous. I never buy anything on the net, and that goes for most people. Go out during the holidays and the malls are getting more and more crowded every year, most people don't shop in front of there computer.
instant music and instant multimedia is not as abundant as it used to be, instant music is being phased out. Within 2 years it will be gone. That's the way it's going to be. It's happening right now.
End Quote
I agree JJ65, in time the internet will become another medium like cable that you will have to pay for a package content for sites that you like to visit. Not only news but many FTP, gaming sites are now pay as well. Only goes to show how things can change.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
from my own personal experience, I've seen the rise and fall of the net.
Back in 1993 I just checked some news articles and posted on message boards once in a while
now in 2003 I just check some news articles and post on message boards once in a while
sure there was a ton of stuff in the middle, but let's face it, the net is polluted with useless ads and illegal stuff. The web as it was originally conceived FORBID advertising. Now it's all over the place. The # of pay sites are going up, and eventually people get discouraged, they stop paying, and the pay sites shut down. This is the net regressing.
the Net was just overhyped, that's the problem. I had a lot of friends who lost a ton of money when the bubble burst.
that's why I hate it when people are saying "it's growing, expanding, it's the next big thing"
oh really? just watch what the future holds. Just wait until paysites are built into microsoft.
the net is evolving into something less than desirable.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
from my own personal experience, I've seen the rise and fall of the net.
Back in 1993 I just checked some news articles and posted on message boards once in a while
now in 2003 I just check some news articles and post on message boards once in a while
sure there was a ton of stuff in the middle, but let's face it, the net is polluted with useless ads and illegal stuff. The web as it was originally conceived FORBID advertising. Now it's all over the place. The # of pay sites are going up, and eventually people get discouraged, they stop paying, and the pay sites shut down. This is the net regressing.
the Net was just overhyped, that's the problem. I had a lot of friends who lost a ton of money when the bubble burst.
that's why I hate it when people are saying "it's growing, expanding, it's the next big thing"
oh really? just watch what the future holds. Just wait until paysites are built into microsoft.
the net is evolving into something less than desirable.
End Quote
sure the net has its bad points, but you know what, I would not even think of loggin of "for good" now that I have it.
As far as you saying people aren't shopping on the net? Explain to me how Ebay has built itself to a MULTI-MILLION dollar bussiness year in and year out. And its STILL growing. Last Christmas many companies saw their highest online buying season ever. I for one bought several Christmas gifts online. If you use common sense, its not any more dangerous than shopping in a "brick-and-mortar store".
And if your problem with some news sites is simply that you have to join a membership(which in most cases involves nothing more than entering a phony email address), then fine, don't do it. Why gripe about it?
And as far as music sites going away, everytime a Napster-like site goes down, 3 more pop up in its place. Imesh.com alone has over 40 MILLION members worldwide, and if it goes down, 3 more will start up to replace it.
JJ65, face it, this little thing called the internet is here to stay. One can't help but wonder that if you are so apparently discouraged about it, why you still continue to use it.
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
what we wanted it to be is a huge money maker!!! End Quote
Maybe that's what you and your friends wanted it to be. I sure didn't. And I don't know of any of my friends who wanted to make a lot of money on the internet.
Most of us looked at it as a way to see and read about things in other countries, that we would not normally be able to see, either because we didn't have the money for traveling, or the local library didn't have the space for it.
As for some news and other info being inaccurate...that happens all the time in the paper newspapers and tv news, too.
Quoting:instant commerce was a sham, it's unreliable and dangerous. I never buy anything on the net, and that goes for most people. Go out during the holidays and the malls are getting more and more crowded every year, most people don't shop in front of there computer.
End Quote
I don't know where you live, but around my neck of the woods it's just the opposite. Several dozen retail stores have declared bankruptcy and closed down, yet their "online" divisions are turning a profit.
Malls around here are *not* crowded.
I and most of my friends do 80% or more of our shopping online, from holiday gifts to clothes for the kids to even the weekly groceries. Not only do we have the convenience of shopping after we put the kids to bed, we also avoid bringing screaming, whining, bad-mannered children to the stores with us (something most people appreciate). I have never experienced this so-called 'unreliability', and as for safety, that's mostly a matter of common sense.
As to the government putting controls on the internet, (or parts of it anyways), that's not really any different from the controls the government has already on radio and tv ( ever hear of the FCC? ).
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Oh, I thought this was about Lars Loser-Napster Killer Ulrich being pissed at more sites that may leave him homeless...after all a couple million to live off of isn't nearly enough, is it? ::)
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
Oh, I thought this was about Lars Loser-Napster Killer Ulrich being pissed at more sites that may leave him homeless...after all a couple million to live off of isn't nearly enough, is it? ::)
End Quote
LOL good point R&Rfan I used to like Metallica but after the hissy fit that Lars Ulrich had over napster... I think its best said in Campchaos' Napster Bad series.
the first one can be seen here:
http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/napsterbad/napsterbad_56k.html
The rest can be seen here: be sure to check out Metallicops! Sprinkles Good!
http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/napsterbad/
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
LOL good point R&Rfan I used to like Metallica but after the hissy fit that Lars Ulrich had over napster... I think its best said in Campchaos' Napster Bad series.
the first one can be seen here:
http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/napsterbad/napsterbad_56k.html
The rest can be seen here: be sure to check out Metallicops! Sprinkles Good!
http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/napsterbad/
End Quote
Thanks Arcfire, good to know I'm not alone in my disliking Loser Lars ;)
Subject: Re: Article about the slow death of the Internet
Quoting:
Thanks Arcfire, good to know I'm not alone in my disliking Loser Lars ;)
End Quote
LOL R&RFan, You and everyone else who was sick of him whining like a sissy about how they were loosing millions. Funny thing is that the year Napster was still active the record industry still made money. Napster has not been "free" for over year and now they are loosing money...Go figure!
*side note-I know there are other programs like Kazaa, WinMX (which I use) and others but in a recent survey, all these programs combined do not have the might that napster had in 2000.