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Subject: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/03/03 at 11:46 a.m.

What are your thoughts on the designated hitter in baseball?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2003/04/02/designated_hitter/

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Race_Bannon on 04/03/03 at 12:01 a.m.

Of course myself and the rest of Seattle all love Edgar Martinez but I think the NL rules make more sence.  Pitchers hit and no DH's.

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/03/03 at 12:39 a.m.


Quoting:
Of course myself and the rest of Seattle all love Edgar Martinez but I think the NL rules make more sence.  Pitchers hit and no DH's.
End Quote



Actually it's more like "pitchers bunt" and "walk the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher" ;)

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Race_Bannon on 04/03/03 at 12:45 a.m.


Quoting:


Actually it's more like "pitchers bunt" and "walk the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher" ;)
End Quote

You got that right.

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: FunkyFresh on 04/03/03 at 01:19 p.m.

I'm biased due to the fact that I've always followed NL teams, the Pirates and the Diamondbacks.

I think the DH rule has outlived its time.  Pitchers in the AL get away with way too much because of the fact that if they throw at someone, they never have to face the same music themselves, i.e. Roger Clemens.  

Obviously, the strategies change as well, and more players get into the game.  Plus, it's entertaining.  I always get a kick out of it too when, by some genius stroke of luck that a pitcher gets on base in a cold weather game, he wears the old reliable jacket while running, er jogging around the bases.

As far as runs being scored, we don't really have to worry about that anymore.  I don't have an exact figure on how many more teams there are now, but because of expansion, you have a lot of pitchers that never would have made the big leagues 30 years ago.  Now, if a pitcher has an ERA below 4.00, he's had a pretty good year.  Back in the day, the guy would have been sent back to the minors, long bus rides to play away games in towns you've never heard of, and a daily allowance of $4.52 for spending money on food.

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/03/03 at 01:55 p.m.

I am of the philosophy that you are not a complete ballplayer unless you can both field and hit.  Even relief pitchers should hit.  :)

The way the National League works, if you bring in a relief pitcher the rule says you either have to make that pitcher hit, or switch him out with a pinch-hitter.  It gets all complicated and it's more like chess.  In the American League, because of the DH, you can put in a new pitcher without having to double switch, which simplifies the game.

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Steve_H on 04/03/03 at 02:04 p.m.

The counter-argument, of course, it that with 9 hitters in the lineup a manager's strategic options are the more complicated because of it.  I mean, let's face it; when the pitcher comes up to bat with a man on, 90% of the time he's bunting.  Or he's being pinch hit for.
And a manager has to have a finer feel for his pitcher.  In the  NL when it gets to the late innings of a close game, you pinch-hit for the pitcher...

DH's make the game more complicated, not less.

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/03/03 at 02:16 p.m.


Quoting:
The counter-argument, of course, it that with 9 hitters in the lineup a manager's strategic options are the more complicated because of it.  I mean, let's face it; when the pitcher comes up to bat with a man on, 90% of the time he's bunting.  Or he's being pinch hit for.
And a manager has to have a finer feel for his pitcher.  In the  NL when it gets to the late innings of a close game, you pinch-hit for the pitcher...

DH's make the game more complicated, not less.
End Quote



Your argument makes sense, but methinks the NL game still has a lot more of the "little things" than the AL game.

I'd also argue that the 10% of the time that a pitcher actually hits (if your numbers are correct) rather than bunts, the results are very entertaining.  You'll either see him flail (hehehe) or be impressed that he actually gets the ball out of the infield.

And in the case of pitchers like Mike Hampton and John Smoltz, those guys hit for power and average, respectively, and if you let them bat on a day-by-day basis they'd probably do a lot better than some DH's.  Exceptions to the rule, I know, but I like to see it ;)

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: dagwood on 04/03/03 at 05:13 p.m.

DH is a dumb rule.  I am partial to the NL so I am a little biased, but it makes no sense.  I think that the pitcher should hit also.  

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Steve_H on 04/03/03 at 05:28 p.m.

Good thing you're a Cubs fan, Dagwood, cause the White Sox sure stink  ;D  (The vaunted and 'much improved' White Sox start the season 0-2 against the mighty mighty Kansas City Royals!)

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Jonman on 04/03/03 at 05:41 p.m.

I think it's a weird rule too. However, it it weren't for that rule my friend wouldn't have played for the Rangers or the Brewers as he was a DH!

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/03/03 at 05:43 p.m.

Quoting:
I think it's a weird rule too. However, it it weren't for that rule my friend wouldn't have played for the Rangers or the Brewers as he was a DH!
End Quote



I'm sure he could field at some point ;)  
Oooh, my pi*100th post!  :D

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Jonman on 04/04/03 at 01:17 a.m.


Quoting:


I'm sure he could field at some point ;)  
Oooh, my pi*100th post!  :D
End Quote



Yeah, he's a pretty mean left-fielder.....

Seriously though. I think the DH rule is weird. We never had it growing up and playing minor ball. I agree that the players should be rounded in all aspects of the game...crap, they make enough money!!

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: dagwood on 04/04/03 at 05:58 a.m.


Quoting:
Good thing you're a Cubs fan, Dagwood, cause the White Sox sure stink  ;D  (The vaunted and 'much improved' White Sox start the season 0-2 against the mighty mighty Kansas City Royals!)
End Quote



Amen to that.  We are 2-1...but still waiting for Sammy to hit a home run....#500 is being elusive.

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: FussBudgetVanPelt on 04/04/03 at 06:16 a.m.

I would like to give you all an 'outsider's' opinion on this.

Coming from a non-baseballing country, but having seen enough of the game to like it, I reckon if the pitcher has to bat it adds a little bit of extra interest to it.

Down with the DH I say !

FB the opinionated-from-afar!  ;D

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/04/03 at 09:45 a.m.


Quoting:
I would like to give you all an 'outsider's' opinion on this.

Coming from a non-baseballing country, but having seen enough of the game to like it, I reckon if the pitcher has to bat it adds a little bit of extra interest to it.

Down with the DH I say !

FB the opinionated-from-afar!  ;D
End Quote



Hear hear 8)

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Wicked Lester on 04/04/03 at 11:16 a.m.

I don't especially care for the DH rule. Beyond the obvious that I think it keeps pitchers from having to be complete players, there is this little problem too. Remember a couple of years ago when Roger Clemens threw part of a broken bat at Mike Piazza? Roger claims that he thought it was the ball  ::) but I wonder if players like Clemens would be so eager to be as aggressive as they sometimes are if they had to face opposing pitchers at the plate. It's one thing to pitch a guy high and tight if you don't have to face the music, but another thing altogether if you have to take a turn in the box.

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/04/03 at 12:41 a.m.

It's also fun to see perennial AL pitchers get traded to NL teams, or in interleague play, or their first at-bat in the World Series in an NL park, try not to look ridiculous when they have to bat for the first time in years ;D

I remember Randy Johnson's first at-bat in years, after he was traded to Houston...it was pretty ridiculous, the bat kept flying out of his hands :D

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: FussBudgetVanPelt on 04/04/03 at 05:35 p.m.


Quoting:
I don't especially care for the DH rule. Beyond the obvious that I think it keeps pitchers from having to be complete players, there is this little problem too. Remember a couple of years ago when Roger Clemens threw part of a broken bat at Mike Piazza? Roger claims that he thought it was the ball  ::) but I wonder if players like Clemens would be so eager to be as aggressive as they sometimes are if they had to face opposing pitchers at the plate. It's one thing to pitch a guy high and tight if you don't have to face the music, but another thing altogether if you have to take a turn in the box.
End Quote



Hey Lester !  This intrigues me !  Two thoughts come to mind.

(1) In situations where someone like Clemens throws part of a broken bat at Piazza, Piazza then reserves the right under FB's DH rule Nbr 1 Sub-clause Aus that he may stick the remainder of the bat where the sun don't shine....

(2) In Cricket, (some of you will be vaguely aware of this game  ;D) everyone gets a turn batting, but not everyone necessarily has to bowl (your equivalent of pitch).  Therefore you get situations where fast bowlers bowl to an opposing fast bowler who is batting.

Unwritten rule : If as a bowler you chuck in some nasty ones to your opponent, then watch out when it's your turn to bat !

So :  Bring it on Roger and Mike  :P :P :P

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/04/03 at 06:43 p.m.


Quoting:
In situations where someone like Clemens throws part of a broken bat at Piazza, Piazza then reserves the right under FB's DH rule Nbr 1 Sub-clause Aus that he may stick the remainder of the bat where the sun don't shine....
End Quote



Actually, usually what happens is, if the batter charges the mound, the catcher can either stop him, or if not, then both benches empty and you have an all out brawl for a few minutes.  Pretty funny stuff :)

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Emergency_Cube on 04/04/03 at 06:46 p.m.

And pitchers can get their revenge too...I don't know who the opposing pitcher was, but when Juan Marichal got beaned, he took the bat to that pitcher.  It was pretty sick.

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: Wicked Lester on 04/04/03 at 06:55 p.m.


Quoting:
I don't know who the opposing pitcher was, but when Juan Marichal got beaned, he took the bat to that pitcher.  It was pretty sick.
End Quote



That was Dodgers great Johnny Roseboro.

http://www.neilleifer.com/art/team/baseball/b89.jpg

Subject: Re: The DH Turns 30!

Written By: FussBudgetVanPelt on 04/04/03 at 07:45 p.m.

Alright !  Play Ball !

Amazing the game hasn't become more popular in Aus having seen that !  ;)