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Subject: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
I just saw this and thought it kinda amazing.
Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
By MARYCLAIRE DALE
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
Joseph Torsella, president of the National Constitution Center, speaks at a news conference, while standing next to an original copy of the Bill of Rights, at the FBI office in Philadelphia Wednesday, March 19, 2003. The document, one of 14 original copies of the Bill of Rights that were owned by the 13 original colonies and the federal government, was stolen from the North Carolina statehouse by a Union soldier during the Civil War, and recently recovered by federal investigators. (AP Photo/Jacqueline Larma)
PHILADELPHIA -- An original copy of the Bill of Rights, stolen from the North Carolina statehouse during the Civil War, was recovered in an undercover sting, the FBI said Wednesday.
Authorities learned of the document after a broker contacted the National Constitution Center, a museum being built in Philadelphia's historic district.
Museum president Joseph Torsella thought it might be the copy belonging to Pennsylvania, one of five states that have lost their copies over the years. But during the talks, his staff came to believe it was the copy stolen from North Carolina, based on handwritten information on the back.
Torsella, working with Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, a museum board member, then contacted authorities.
An FBI agent, posing as a philanthropist trying to buy the document for the museum, met Tuesday with a broker representing the seller, who wanted $4 million for it, authorities said.
After some discussion, the broker called a courier.
"A courier appeared with this document in a cardboard box, if you can believe that," said Jeffrey A. Lampinski, special agent in charge of the FBI's Philadelphia office.
The handwritten document - one of at least 14 copies made in 1791 for the 13 original colonies and the federal government - is faded but in "reasonable condition," Torsella said.
Curators estimated its value at $20 million to $30 million, he said.
Investigators would not release any information about the seller or broker, and officials said a civil seizure warrant was sealed. No arrests were made.
A federal judge in North Carolina signed the warrant, based on probable cause that stolen property had been transported across state lines, and that court ultimately will rule on whether the state is indeed the legal owner.
Officials believe the document was stolen by a Union soldier, who brought the document back to his native Ohio and sold it a year later, in 1866. They don't know if or when it changed hands after that.
"North Carolina's stolen Bill of Rights has been out-of-state for nearly 140 years but never out-of-mind," said North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley. "It is a historic document and its return is a historic occasion."
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
Dang. Good to hear they got it back. I wonder how much this cost the dealer? I mean, if he was going to sell it for $4 million he must have paid a sizable chunk of change for it.
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
*pssst...*buddy, wanna buy a bill-o'-rights, cheap..?
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
Ha! ;D I swear that was going to be my header for the story. Hard to beleive that someone would attempt to sell this document w/o thinking it would be noticed. ::)
Quoting:
*pssst...*buddy, wanna buy a bill-o'-rights, cheap..?
End Quote
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
Funny thing is they guy only tried to sell it for 4 million when it was worth 5 to 7 times that much and along with the other things it tells you this person was not very bright.
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
So, does the original copy have any "does not apply" footnote?
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
Quoting:
So, does the original copy have any "does not apply" footnote?
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Yeah, doesnt apply to black, women, Irish, Native Americans, or any others that we don't consider "real Americans". We've come a long way baby, and rightfully so. Still a long way to go, but progess is progress. Keep on keepin' on!
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
Quoting:
Yeah, doesnt apply to black, women, Irish, Native Americans, or any others that we don't consider "real Americans". We've come a long way baby, and rightfully so. Still a long way to go, but progess is progress. Keep on keepin' on!
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Do you even know how offensive this is? Are you trying to say that I am not considered a "real american" because I am a woman? Sure racism still exists, but not as bad as you portray it. It might be rampant where you are, but I can tell you that where I am it is not. Generalizations are just as bad as racism. Every white person is not racist...please stop making it out to be this way. In fact, if a person says someone is racist because they are white, doesn't it make the first person a racist too? It can run both ways.
Hairspray: sorry if this goes too far off topic. I just couldn't hold my tongue any longer.
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
Quoting:
Do you even know how offensive this is? Are you trying to say that I am not considered a "real american" because I am a woman? Sure racism still exists, but not as bad as you portray it. It might be rampant where you are, but I can tell you that where I am it is not. Generalizations are just as bad as racism. Every white person is not racist...please stop making it out to be this way. In fact, if a person says someone is racist because they are white, doesn't it make the first person a racist too? It can run both ways.
Hairspray: sorry if this goes too far off topic. I just couldn't hold my tongue any longer.
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My dear Dagwood, look at the original question. When the bill of rights was written, women had vertually no rights, and could legally be subjected to the "rule of thumb" by their husbands(I'll be happy to explain that if you aren't familiar with it) Black people were slaves, and their condition was sanctioned by the Constitution (although not by name). "white" was defined, during that time, as ASP (Anglo Saxon Protestant-there are no "dark" ones). You need to read the history of the progress of democracy and human rights in this country before you go off on my comments on the ORIGINAL bill of rights. Do you know when it was that women got the right to vote? It was 1920! And when was the Voting Rights Act passed, that protected black voters rights - was it 1968 or '69? I don't remember. The original Bill of Rights WAS labled "White males only". This is historical fact. What we should be proud of is the centuries loing struggle to expand that definition.
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
Quoting:
My dear Dagwood, look at the original question. When the bill of rights was written, women had vertually no rights, and could legally be subjected to the "rule of thumb" by their husbands(I'll be happy to explain that if you aren't familiar with it) Black people were slaves, and their condition was sanctioned by the Constitution (although not by name). "white" was defined, during that time, as ASP (Anglo Saxon Protestant-there are no "dark" ones). You need to read the history of the progress of democracy and human rights in this country before you go off on my comments on the ORIGINAL bill of rights. Do you know when it was that women got the right to vote? It was 1920! And when was the Voting Rights Act passed, that protected black voters rights - was it 1968 or '69? I don't remember. The original Bill of Rights WAS labled "White males only". This is historical fact. What we should be proud of is the centuries loing struggle to expand that definition.
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Sorry...I took your original post the wrong way. I think my problem is most of your posts point to it still being that way. It is not...I lost my temper.
Subject: Re: Original Copy of Bill of Rights Recovered
Quoting:
Sorry...I took your original post the wrong way. I think my problem is most of your posts point to it still being that way. It is not...I lost my temper.
End Quote
No problem. We all do that sometimes. And you're right. My dad was born just days before women could first vote in a presidential election. My Grandma, pointing to his crib, said "all these years men have kept me from voting, AND THERE"S ANOTHER ONE" ;D Clearly, we have come a long way in this country in realizing the promise implied in our founding documents and in what we claim to be our values. My point is that while we HAVE come a long way, we can't stand on our laurals and say "well, we're done." The job isn't over. We can be proud - justly - of how far we have come, but there is still more to do. First, I would suggest, in this country, but then, in the rest of the world. If we could find a foreign policy that was based on our values as well as our interests, we might be able to project our values as well as our power. Our values are, I think more powerful than our military. But our government (most of us as individuals do a fairly good job at this) has to keep on trying to live by those values. So, please interpret my posts as refering to our gov't, and not to "we (you) the people". Actually, although I think many U.S.ians are woofully uniformed, and suseptable to manipulation, I have a great respect for the basic goodness and well meaning of the Am people. Certainly we are flawed (myself included) as all humans are, I think that most of us are really good people who wish no one ill, and want want to do good. I see this on a local level all the time. But when it comes to politics, and especially international affairs - MAN the people of this country know Jack - S**T and usually could care less. And that's too bad, because sometimes, when the U.S. sneezes, somebody gets pnumonia.