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Subject: Iraqi War
If it goes according to plan, an Iraqi war may be incredibly swift and decisive:
"What follows the barrage of several thousand smart weapons will be the kind of war the United States has never fought on this scale before: a rapid, violent invasion whose main goals aren't to seize territory or destroy a large army. Instead, if all goes according to plan, U.S. forces will kill or capture Saddam and anyone keeping him in power, while leaving Iraq's regular military, its civilians and most cities and towns untouched. If it works, it will be the model for U.S. wars to pre-empt terrorist threats for decades to come.
Waging a second Persian Gulf War, military analysts caution, willrequire both an iron fist and a velvet glove. U.S. forces must use swift and brutal force to neutralize the armed forces, kill or capture Saddam, and stop Iraqis from torching oil wells and unleashing chemical or biological weapons. And, with a surgical touch, U.S. forces must do this without slaughtering Iraqi civilians or crippling a country that will have to be rebuilt and occupied for years to come.
The swift and brutal part of the U.S. invasion plan is all but assured. With little fanfare, the Pentagon and its allies have ringed Iraq with an overwhelming force. Five aircraft carrier battle groups are on station or on their way to the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean Sea. Some 800 warplanes are poised aboard ships or at bases within striking distance of Iraq. Troops, tanks and helicopters from U.S. and British units are moving into position in Kuwait, Turkey and elsewhere in the region. "
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030221/4888402s.htm
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Let's hope it goes this way.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Turkey is going to accept US troops and Hans Blix is drafting a letter demanding Iraq destroy "dozens" of their Al Samoud 2 missiles.
That has to put Iraq in a sticky corner. Non-compliance will probably precipitate a war. Complying with Blix's demands may not be enough to avoid a war and it will diminish Iraq's arsenal at the worst possible moment...
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
From the NY Times.
BAGHDAD
Human Shields, No Résumé Needed
By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
BAGHDAD, Feb. 20 — A rather jaunty sign advertising the grimmest of tasks was pinned up on a small notice board labeled "Human Shields" in the airy lobby of the Andalus Hotel Apartments here this morning.
It sought three additional volunteers to join the 13 already committed to living at the Baghdad South Power Plant to try to prevent its being bombed in the event of war. "There is no more important place for a shield to be," the notice read.
Volunteers from half a dozen nations expect to move into a large, collective dormitory room on Sunday at the power plant, a site they said was suggested to them by the Iraqi government. Since arriving earlier this month they have been touring hospitals, water treatment plants and other installations critical to the civilian population.
"They have shown us a number of sites and one of them was this power station," said Godfrey Meynell, a 68-year-old antiwar activist from Britain. "I have been pushing for this site because it seems to me that if the electricity is cut, then water treatment suffers, hospitals suffer. Of course America appears to have become so immoral now that there are few chances of it making it the slightest bit of difference."
Like much of the current confrontation with Iraq, the issue of human shields carries an echo from the Persian Gulf war of 1991. After its 1990 invasion of Kuwait, the Iraqis rounded up hundreds of oil workers, bankers and other expatriates, forcing them to live for months at scores of sites including Iraqi military bases and industrial plants. They were eventually released, before the war.
The United States has warned repeatedly that even though the shields this time are volunteers, their use would still be considered a war crime. "Deploying human shields is not a military strategy, it's murder, a violation of the laws of armed conflict and a crime against humanity, and it will be treated as such," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said on Wednesday.
The participants took exception. "That is ridiculous," said Ken Nichols O'Keefe, a 33-year-old gulf war Marine veteran who initiated the idea. "They are not using me. I am here voluntarily. What is Saddam Hussein supposed to say? `No, they can't do it'? "
Earlier this month, Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz said the foreign volunteers were welcome. "They should come and set themselves up around places that we need to survive, to aid civil defense," he said.
The Iraqi government is paying to house the volunteers in a smattering of small hotels around downtown Baghdad and setting up free international telephone lines and special Internet access so they can lobby the folks back home.
Western diplomats are unsure, though, that the Iraqi government, once besieged, will want the public relations headache the shields will undoubtedly carry, and some of the volunteers themselves have their doubts.
"We fear they will keep us together and then push us out at the last minute," Mr. Meynell said.
Others have become aware of the sinister side of what some say they naïvely interpreted as a kind of extraordinary war protest. "I think the Iraqi government is potentially putting us in a dangerous position," said a young Australian who said he had decided to leave.
The shields stress that they came to protect civilians and not to support the Iraqi government, but the Iraqis inevitably blur such distinctions.
One American peace advocate recalled a typical march where the Westerners were chanting antiwar slogans and were suddenly joined by dozens of Iraqis hoisting pictures of Mr. Hussein. "It changed the spirit of the march," said a recent college graduate who is one of the volunteers. "That wasn't what we expected."
The number of human shields remains fluid. The count listed on the group's bulletin board today jumped from about 97 to 132 with new arrivals, but about 60 showed up at a group meeting. Eighteen are believed to be Americans. Organizers brashly predict that the numbers will catapult to the thousands.
But other peace delegations object to the fact that they are all often lumped together as shields. "I am certainly not here to become a martyr," said Beate Malkus, a 33-year old German actress.
One Italian confessed that she really just wanted to come here as a peace advocate, but found that volunteering as a shield seemed to speed the visa process.
Besides the shields, there has been an endless tide of peace advocates showing up from around the world.
The whole human shield effort oozes a spirit somewhere between a socialist collective and one of those communal college dormitories.
One announcement on the bulletin board proclaimed a drive to donate blood. It pointed out that taking part would be one easy way to get the certificate peculiar to Iraq that requires all foreigners to prove they do not have AIDS. The certificate is presented on departure.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Then what? Do we leave them like we did with Afganistan?
Cat
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Then what? Do we leave them like we did with Afganistan?
Cat
End Quote
Naah...we make Iraq the 51st state. Hmmm, I wonder how will they keep all the little rows of stars neat & even and on the flag...?
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Naah...we make Iraq the 51st state. Hmmm, I wonder how will they keep all the little rows of stars neat & even and on the flag...?
End Quote
Maybe if they added Puerto Rico, Guam, and Canada, they'll have a nice 5x11 format...and if they added American Samoa, 7x8 :D
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Here's a description of a segment on tonight's (2/23/03) 60 Minutes:
Saddam's Deadly Subway Scheming
(CBS) Plans for a Baghdad subway were used instead to build underground tunnels to hide Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, says one of the Iraqi dictator’s former top scientists. Dr. Hussein Shahristani, once Iraq’s top nuclear scientist, speaks to Steve Kroft for a 60 Minutes report to be broadcast Sunday, Feb. 23, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.
Shahristani says subway plans drawn up by several international firms were given to the Iraqi military. “ told his military, ‘Well, we have these designs for the tunnels, go ahead and do them, but not for metro, for our weapons of mass destruction. We can hide them, move them around,’” he tells Kroft. “I’ve spoken to one person who has been in these tunnels,” says Shahristani, “We believe now it is more than 100 kilometers of very complex network, multi-layer tunnels.”
Among the weapons Shahristani believes may be hidden in the tunnels are deadly agents like Sarin, possibly anthrax and also the nerve agent VX. The oily, sticky VX is what the former chemist’s contacts are telling him Hussein wants to use to form a chemical belt around Baghdad. “VX… will kill within a few minutes or a few seconds… The lethal dose of it is one milligram. So nobody can escape and whoever wants to attack the city has to cross this chemical belt first and then enter into street fighting,” says Shahristani.
The tunnels may also hide Hussein or provide an escape route for him. “He actually has a tunnel that can withstand a nuclear blast and if he survives in the tunnel, he has won the war because, for him, winning the war means surviving it,” Shahristani says.
U.N. inspectors have told 60 Minutes they have heard of the tunnels for years, but cannot find their entrances. The U.S. government may know more about them, however. A Pasadena, Calif., firm designed a portion of the subway years ago and its blueprints are now in the hands of government officials.
Shahristani was tortured and spent 11 years in solitary for refusing to build an atomic bomb for Hussein. He escaped prison during an Allied bombing raid during the Gulf War. He hopes to return to his homeland and help rebuild it after the war he is sure will begin soon.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/21/60minutes/main541565.shtml
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Maybe if they added Puerto Rico, Guam, and Canada, they'll have a nice 5x11 format...and if they added American Samoa, 7x8 :D
End Quote
and Britain (if La Poodle has his way) :(
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
This amused me for some reason ;D
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20030224/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_717
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
This is one way to solve the Iraq problem.
http://www.rutlandherald.com/teeds/teeds.jpg
Cat
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
I like it, Cat! ;D (Looks like someone figgered out how to add pictures, too... ;))
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
I like it, Cat! ;D (Looks like someone figgered out how to add pictures, too... ;))
End Quote
Yup-sure did thanks to a couple of friends from this board who have been giving my pointers. Now, I have to find that site with the smiley faces-hint, hint.
Cat
Subject: Iraqi Website
Check out the Republic Of Iraq web site...interesting. :P
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/28/sprj.irq.main/index.html
So, they're disarming those missiles. Which is good. So now what do you think will happen?
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
So, they're disarming those missiles. Which is good. So now what do you think will happen?
End Quote
OK, they're disarming those missiles. Thats Step 1.
I don't think it changes much. Considering the fact that all the chemical and biological weapons are still missing and unnaccounted for. Until Saddam devulges the whereabouts of those, nothing's changed, IMO.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Here are a couple paragraphs on the White House reaction to the missile destruction:
By Adam Entous
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House on Saturday dismissed Iraq's destruction of some banned missiles as part of a "game of deception," edging closer to war despite the Turkish Parliament's refusal to grant U.S. troops access to the country's bases for a possible invasion.
"(U.N.) Resolution 1441 called for a complete, total and immediate disarmament. It did not call for pieces of disarmament. The president has always predicted that Iraq would destroy its al-Samoud missiles as part of their game of deception," White House spokeswoman Mercy Viana said.
Bush, Secretary of State Colin Powell and national security adviser Condoleezza Rice are engaged in an intensive diplomatic effort to win support from skeptical U.N. Security Council members for a new resolution that could pave the way for war.
Bush has said a new resolution, while desirable, is not necessary for him to justify a U.S.-led attack, and he has sent a large military force in the Gulf region ready to carry one out.
"America is determined to enforce the demands of the United Nations Security Council by confronting the grave and growing danger of Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction," Bush said.
According to the White House it's too little, too late.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
According to the White House it's too little, too late.
End Quote
...and I agree.
As stated in my previous post, this latest "development" by Iraq to disarm these missiles still doesn't answer the question as to the whereabouts of all the rest of the unnaccounted for chemical and biological weapons.
Saddam can disarm those missiles, but until he coughs up the rest of the weapons in question, he is still in deep s__t.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
You're right, it couldn't possibly be about oil.
We supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years, and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians
As late as 1998 the US was paying the salary of every single Taliban official in Afghanistan
There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area than in Saudi Arabia, but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil out.
UNOCAL, a giant American Oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1000 mile long pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea.
UNOCAL spent $10,000,000,000 on geological surveys for pipeline construction, and very nicely courted the Taliban for their support in allowing the construction to begin.
All of the leading Taliban officials were in Texas negotiating with UNOCAL in 1998.
1998-1999 the Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to a company from Argentina.
John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress and said no pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a more friendly government was established.
1999-2000 The Taliban became the most evil people in the world.
Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.
9/11 WTC disaster.
Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though none of the hijackers came from Afghanistan.
Taliban offered to negotiate to turn over Bin Laden if we showed them some proof. We refused; we bombed.
We have a new government in Afghanistan.
The leader of that government formerly worked for UNOCAL.
Bush appoints a special envoy to represent the US to deal with that new government, who formerly was the "chief consultant to UNOCAL".
The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil
Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an oil company before going to Washington.
George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group" specializing in huge oil investments around the world.
Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before gong to Washington.
Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate Haliburton before becoming VP.
Haliburton gave Cheney $34 Million dollars as a farewell gift when he left Haliburton.
Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business.
There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the Caspian Sea area.
The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.
President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karrzai, (Afghanistan -Unocal) announce agreement to build proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02)
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
You're right, it couldn't possibly be about oil...
End Quote
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
...old news, nothing new.
limblifter, wake me up when you're finished. ::)
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
I've stated this before but I have to ask the question, why is it wrong to protect our interests in oil? Look at the rising costs of fuel now, it doesn't just hurt when we fill our own tanks up. Unless an individulal is a 100% subsistance farmer (I don't recommend anyone to go that route) are goods and services that we use all involve transportation and therefore "evil oil". The greater cost of fuel leads very directly to the greatrer costs of, well almost everything. Is it about money? Hey, every stock holder will either benefit or lose value, these are publically traded companies, if you participate in a 401k or other retirment program you may be a part owner and not even no it. Am I gready cause I think we should protect our oil interests? I don't think so, I just don't wish to be any poorer.
So if you want to fall back on that tired argument "its all for oil" rhetoric, just remember how everything you have got to you.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
So if you want to fall back on that tired argument "its all for oil" rhetoric, just remember how everything you have got to you.
End Quote
Excellent point.
It would be interesting to see the reactions of the "its all about oil" crowd if gas suddenly rose to $6/gallon, or more.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
It may be old news but it doesn't render it irrelevent. I posted it because some people might not have been aware of these FACTS.
I've never seen these points on this board, so I didn't think of it as old news.
You'll wake up when Bush loses the next election and everyone realizes just how much of their tax money went toward "Freeing the Iraqi people". When the U.S gains control of one of the largest deposits of oil in the world, yet citizens continue to pay outrageous prices for gas because big oil companies have greased all the pockets in Washington.
But that is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
I've never seen these points on this board, so I didn't think of it as old news.
End Quote
I guess you missed it the other 50 or more times other its all about oil people have posted them.
Yes we all know Bush was involved in the oil business. And...?
...like I said, Old News.
Nobody cried its all about oil in 1998 under Clinton. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Is it just me or does the "mastermind" terrorist that they arrested recently look almost identical to Ron Jeremy?
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/images/03/02/txtop.ksmohammad.ap.jpg
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Is it just me or does the "mastermind" terrorist that they arrested recently look almost identical to Ron Jeremy?
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/images/03/02/txtop.ksmohammad.ap.jpg
End Quote
Actually, I was thinking Babu from Seinfeld :D
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
You're right, it couldn't possibly be about oil.
We supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years, and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians
As late as 1998 the US was paying the salary of every single Taliban official in Afghanistan
There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area than in Saudi Arabia, but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil out.
UNOCAL, a giant American Oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1000 mile long pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea.
UNOCAL spent $10,000,000,000 on geological surveys for pipeline construction, and very nicely courted the Taliban for their support in allowing the construction to begin.
All of the leading Taliban officials were in Texas negotiating with UNOCAL in 1998.
1998-1999 the Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to a company from Argentina.
John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress and said no pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a more friendly government was established.
1999-2000 The Taliban became the most evil people in the world.
Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.
9/11 WTC disaster.
Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though none of the hijackers came from Afghanistan.
Taliban offered to negotiate to turn over Bin Laden if we showed them some proof. We refused; we bombed.
We have a new government in Afghanistan.
The leader of that government formerly worked for UNOCAL.
Bush appoints a special envoy to represent the US to deal with that new government, who formerly was the "chief consultant to UNOCAL".
The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil
Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an oil company before going to Washington.
George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group" specializing in huge oil investments around the world.
Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before gong to Washington.
Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate Haliburton before becoming VP.
Haliburton gave Cheney $34 Million dollars as a farewell gift when he left Haliburton.
Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business.
There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the Caspian Sea area.
The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.
President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karrzai, (Afghanistan -Unocal) announce agreement to build proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02)
End Quote
It's a conspiracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What If the war is really about oil. Who cares? Are we supposed to feel bad because we use oil? The Dem’s won't let us get it from some remote tundra in Alaska. There is a lot more concrete proof that Iraq is connected to the 911 terrorists, but you don't post about that.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
You mean like the "Iraq must disarm" posts, or the "Saddam is a madman" posts.
Enough of the "Iraq is not cooperating fast enough". What is the big rush? All the eyes of the world are now on Iraq, how can they possibly do anything that threatens the U.S?
Let the U.N do their job, stop bribing the world into supporting you, and stop crying 9-11 for a reason to Conquer Iraq. If 9-11 is a good reason to invade any country, it should be Saudi Arabia, seeing as there is actual proof that they supported Al Qaeda.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
It's a conspiracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What If the war is really about oil. Who cares? Are we supposed to feel bad because we use oil? The Dem’s won't let us get it from some remote tundra in Alaska. There is a lot more concrete proof that Iraq is connected to the 911 terrorists, but you don't post about that.
End Quote
You used Sadamm invading Kuwait for oil as an excuse for the Gulf War. Now you're saying it's ok for the U.S to invade Iraq for oil?
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Actually, I was thinking Babu from Seinfeld :D
End Quote
Accccck! YES! You nailed it on the head, Rice! I guess it was the carpet of hair that made me think of Ron Jeremy!
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Let the U.N do their job...End Quote
OK, how many UN resolutions has Saddam violated? I lost count 12 years ago.
The UN has their little team of "inspectors" over their "inspecting" the country for weapons. We have covered this over and over and over here. The inspections process is a joke.
OK, throw a handful of people into a country and tell them to find the weapons which Saddam has had years and years to hide and move around. That's effective?
If it were up to the UN, we would just spend the next 12 years drawing up new resolutions each month for Saddam to violate. ::)
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
OK, how many UN resolutions has Saddam violated? I lost count 12 years ago.
The UN has their little team of "inspectors" over their "inspecting" the country for weapons. We have covered this over and over and over here. The inspections process is a joke.
OK, throw a handful of people into a country and tell them to find the weapons which Saddam has had years and years to hide and move around. That's effective?
If it were up to the UN, we would just spend the next 12 years drawing up new resolutions each month for Saddam to violate. ::)
End Quote
That's right, they're called UN resolutions, not US resolutions. The world has not asked the US to be its judge, jury, and executioner.
Quoting:The inspections process is a jokeEnd Quote
What exactly makes you an authority on the inspections process in Iraq? Do you have insider information that no one else is privy to? Hans Blix says they are being difficult, but complying so far, do you know otherwise?
My question was not whether or not he's violated the resolutions, we all know he has. The question is what is it that makes him such a big threat to the US right now? Why is it so urgent to invade right now?
Republicans said Clinton was diverting attention away from himself when he ordered missile attacks in 1998. Now these same republicans say it's crazy to think that Bush might have a hidden agenda.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Republicans said Clinton was diverting attention away from himself when he ordered missile attacks in 1998. Now these same republicans say it's crazy to think that Bush might have a hidden agenda.
End Quote
you're cracking me up. Again, this is old news.
Clinton was under fire and in the process of being kicked out of the office he disgraced, so he decides to start bombing.
And now that we finally have a president who doesn't just turn his head and look the other way, you say he's doing it for oil. Bush could easily take the "Pushover Clinton method, and just start writing some checks hoping that nothing happens until his term is up.
Bush isn't taking that route. And I for one am glad he's not.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
OK, how many UN resolutions has Saddam violated? I lost count 12 years ago.
End Quote
Currently 18!
Try comparing that with Israel who are currently breaking 68 resolutions and have made it clear they have no intention of sticking to them.
While the US continues to give military support to Israel, it's hardly surprising that noone believes their sincerity w.r.t. UN resolutions!
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
you're cracking me up. Again, this is old news.
End Quote
You talk of old news yet you still have not offered any other argument other than "How many resolutions has Saddam broken?" as a reason to invade.
I will try one more time. Why is it so urgent for the US to attack Iraq right now? Please tell me what it is exactly that makes Iraq such a military threat to the US and the world.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
I will try one more time. Why is it so urgent for the US to attack Iraq right now? Please tell me what it is exactly that makes Iraq such a military threat to the US and the world.
End Quote
Iraq isn't and never was a threat the the US, or the world. Current US actions may conceivably make it one (if they have biological weapons, I reckon they're much more likely to be used in the event of an attack on Iraq).
The only statement by GWB I believe is that it isn't about oil: I don't think it is directly about Iraqi oil, but much more to do with the desire for a US power base in that part of the world. However, that would give them power and control in a very oil-rich area - which must be nearly as good.
Phil
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Iraq isn't and never was a threat the the US, or the world. Current US actions may conceivably make it one (if they have biological weapons, I reckon they're much more likely to be used in the event of an attack on Iraq).End Quote
You're right! Great guy that Hussein. Wouldn't hurt or threaten a fly. Wouldn't dream of using poison gas against an indigenous population.
Wouldn't think of violating UN sanctions. Wouldn't hide a grain of anthrax spore or a whiff of VX gas. Wouldn't honor a Palestinian terrorist.
Terrorism is ALL the fault of the United States! Nobody else is at fault. If the US goes to war any subsequent deaths are the fault of the greedy and rapacious US. If the US doesn't go to war any Iraqi-sponsered terrorist attack occurs it too will be the fault of the United States.
Funny; the only time the world has any use for the US is when we have our wallet out and open.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Funny; the only time the world has any use for the US is when we have our wallet out and open.
End Quote
Steve, no one has ever hit a nail more squarely on the head!
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Steve....
*** Fallacy alert ***
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html
...but thanks for playing :P
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
You're right! Great guy that Hussein. Wouldn't hurt or threaten a fly. Wouldn't dream of using poison gas against an indigenous population.
End Quote
Steve, grow up: at no time have I suggested that Hussein is that. Of course we know he's used poison gas against his population, not to mention biological weapons: WHO THE F**K SOLD THEM TO HIM?
Again, I did not say that the US is the cause of ALL terrorism: you are being remarkably stupid if you really believe I said that - however, the US's current actions are much more likely to increase than decrease terrorist activity.
You've been duped into thinking that for some reason your safety, and the safety of your country depends on invading Iraq, and a whole load of spurious mitigating factors (Saddam Hussain's a nasty dictator, etc etc etc) have been thrown in to the mix to cover up the fact that the only valid reason for an invasion (i.e. if he was manufacturing WMDs and threatening to use them on the rest of the world) is unproven.
You're not the only American on the various messageboards who takes the "one word against the US means you're siding with Saddam" line - if only you realized how puerile it sounds.
Quoting:
Funny; the only time the world has any use for the US is when we have our wallet out and open.
End Quote
A country which is currently trying to buy UN security council votes by offering humungus amounts of cash in aid?
I don't know how good international reporting is in the US, but I suggest you try reading some.
Phil
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Funny; the only time the world has any use for the US is when we have our wallet out and open.
End Quote
It is strange, isn't it?
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Currently 18!
Try comparing that with Israel who are currently breaking 68 resolutions and have made it clear they have no intention of sticking to them.
While the US continues to give military support to Israel, it's hardly surprising that noone believes their sincerity w.r.t. UN resolutions!
End Quote
Support that amounts to $2 billion of taxpayer money.
Subject: Re: Iraqi War
Quoting:
Support that amounts to $2 billion of taxpayer money.
End Quote
Yes, Israel receives the most US foreign aid. The second most goes to Egypt, followed by Columbia and Jordan.