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Subject: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
First, the article:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Politicians, actors and athletes have promised to wage a national fight to preserve Title IX, the landmark law designed to give women equal access to sports.
The campaign comes as Education Secretary Rod Paige prepares a decision on how the sports equity law is enforced among all schools and colleges that receive federal money.
A commission Paige appointed has suggested updating the 30-year-old law to ensure fairness to all athletes. Although the panel rejected mandating a virtually equal number of athletic slots for men and women at each school, critics said any tinkering would erode opportunities and progress for women.
"We will fight this as long and as hard as it takes, and Title IX will be a part of the American dream," Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-South Dakota, said at an annual gathering honoring female athletes.
Star power
Actresses Holly Hunter and Geena Davis and former Sen. Birch Bayh, D-Indiana, a sponsor of the original law, will lead a campaign to educate and rally the public. Bayh said he hopes Paige will be persuaded to padlock the commission's report in a closet forever.
As the law stands, colleges may show they comply by having a proportion of male and female athletes that is roughly equal to the number of men and women students.
Critics of the law say it forces schools to scrap opportunities for men, but that's never been required or encouraged, Bayh said. Campaign leaders hope to change the debate through lobbying by celebrities, parents and dozens of organizations.
Daschle was joined by Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-New York, and Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska. A bipartisan group of six senators also sent a letter to Paige, encouraging him not undermine the law.
"We're a culture of celebrity, whether it's athletes or actors and actresses," Hunter said. "We really pay attention to celebrity, as well as to high-profile politicians. So I want to take a bit of responsibility for my visibility and use it for something I value."
Dozens of female athletes -- including winning Olympic soccer team member Julie Foudy -- took part in Wednesday's celebration and campaign kickoff and spoke of sports as an enormous source of strength, confidence and pride.
Fair and reasonable
However, a leader of the effort to change Title IX said his goal was only to revise how the law is interpreted, not to attack its mission.
"What we're looking for is a more fair and reasonable way to protect women without hurting men," said Mike Moyer, executive director of the National Wrestling Coaches Association. His group sued the Education Department on grounds that its enforcement of the law forced the elimination of hundreds of men's sports teams.
Paige is to receive the report from the Commission on Opportunity in Athletics by month's end. He has set no timetable for deciding what changes, if any, to make in enforcing the law.
"I don't see how any reasonable person who attended (the commission's meetings) could come away thinking the commissioners were out to dismantle Title IX," said Education Department spokeswoman Susan Aspey.
The commission proposed changes on how roster spots, nonscholarship and nontraditional athletes are counted. Most of its recommendations were approved unanimously.
However, members deadlocked on the far-reaching plan to set a 50-50 split of sports slots for male and female athletes, with some flexibility built in. That provision, which critics said would weaken the law for women, will be included in the report without recommendation.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/02/06/title.ix.ap/index.html
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Now, my position:
I support Title IX's mission, but I do not support the scrapping of some successful men's teams to make funding available for women's teams.
I think it's a good idea to make opportunities available for women, but to make everything 50/50 is impractical because in most schools, there is a wider discrepancy between male participants and female participants. Plus, there is a higher demand for men's sports (don't look at me weird, it's true!) than women's sports. So is it fair to dilute funding away from a popular men's program towards a maybe-not-so-popular women's program, just to be "Title IX compliant"?
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
I support Title IX's mission, but I do not support the scrapping of some successful men's teams to make funding available for women's teams. End Quote
Thats the basis of why Title IX is flawed. Its original intent was to make all college sports equal between men/women, but omitting men's teams to make room for women's teams simply to fill a quota is not right.
Quoting:Plus, there is a higher demand for men's sports (don't look at me weird, it's true!) than women's sports.End Quote
You are right. Just look at attendance for the games. Here in this state, for example, at Indiana University, the men's bball games routinely sell out their games, while the women's games can barely fill half the arena.
Quoting:So is it fair to dilute funding away from a popular men's program towards a maybe-not-so-popular women's program, just to be "Title IX compliant"?
End Quote
Absolutely not.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Since Title IX was implemented the number of female college athletes has grown from 30,000 to over 160,000, and the number of high school athletes has grown from 300,000 to well over 3 million, in large part because of the growing opportunity to receive a scholarship.
There are three ways a school can comply to Title IX
1. Proportionality: The number of athletes from each sex should be roughly the same as enrollment percentages.
2. The school should show history and continuing practice of adding womans sports.
3. The school must show that it is accomodating the abilities and interests of the women on campus.
Most of the schools that are making the most noise over Title IX are the ones with big football and basketball programs. These schools dedicate over 70% of their budgets to these two programs, leaving the rest of the programs to fight for the leftovers. So the choice is, give the remaining funds to the female athletes, cut the football and basketball budgets, or scrap the wrestling team. They'll never scrap football because thats where the money is, so there really is no choice.
Title IX was implemented 30 years ago, so it is not like these schools haven't had time to adjust the way they distribute their funding. With the popularity of womens sports growing every year, I think it would not be fair to change it to 70/30.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Good Info Resinchaser now I can't give the easy response I was going to throw out there. I would say that lets keep the women playing but base the distribution of govt. funds on revenues generated by individual sports. Wrestling is a great sport, but if it doens't bring in any more monies than female basketball I don't think it should recieve any more funds than the female sport does. Also, if funds are cut to some sports alumni feel are important it would be amazing how much they could recieve by donation. Look at the salary of U of WA. football coach Rick Neuheisel for example. ::)
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
now first off i want to say i think women should have a chance to play sports if they want to. however who can honestly say that the percentage of females who WANT to participate in sports is as high as males who WANT to participate in sports? Not a one of us.
With this FACT in front of us why shouldn't we allow more funding for the men's sports??
Now don't get me wrong i'm not saying to cut women's sorts at the expense of men's sports. never should that be done. but expecting a 50-50 split is unrealistic. there should be studies done to see the percentages of males and females who participate in sports and funding should be based on that.
Seems fair to me...if more men participate in sports they should by funded more s they get the oppertunity...
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
I've often wondered why there are no female Major League baseball players.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
I've often wondered why there are no female Major League baseball players.
End Quote
There are some female minor league players. Part of the reason may be that most women played softball rather than baseball. Plus the fact that the last woman pitcher in the minor leagues had something like a 7.6 ERA. Which isn't very good, mind you.
If they can improve, I believe there can be a women's major league...or even a female playing with the big boys.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
...or even a female playing with the big boys.
End Quote
oh boy, thats a whole other topic.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
oh boy, thats a whole other topic.
End Quote
We had a thread for it back in the boonies somewhere...
And it's goofy to support a sports team if nobody is going to watch it (i.e. the Montreal Expos, but some of you will say I'm comparing apples to oranges)
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Montreal Expos -- back in the 80s, when they had a responsible owner and a competitive team, the Expos led the majors in attendence. Over a decade of neglect will drive all but the most hard-core fan away from any team. The fault isn't with the fans, it's with the product (Sorry for ignoring the second big factor, the difference between the value of the Canadian and US dollar. Ask any hockey fan what that's done to things)
Female ballplayer -- The late, lamented Bill Veeck, erstwhile owner of the Chicago White Sox, had wanted to bring the first woman into the majors. The idea never got off the ground, but he believed the logical position for the first female major leaguer would be, I believe, 2nd base. A position where speed and agility are more important than brute strength and stamina.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Good points, Mr. Steve.
Now let's try to steer back towards Title IX ;)
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
I'm suprised to be the first female to comment on this. I would have thought someone with more expertise than me would have caught this by now.
I don't believe all schools are compliant. I also don't believe there "isn't enough interest". In my college there was no woman's basketball team because ( I was told ) there wasn't enough women interested in playing.
Problem is, they were holding the female players to the same high standards as male players. Out of 30 people trying out, only 2 women made the team. In a perfect world, they should all be held to the same standards. But it is not a perfect world (yet). Little girls are still being taught that sports in general ( and football in particular) are "rough" and "unladylike".
I got into a shouting match with another mom over this just yesterday. She was horrified that her little girl was beating the pants off the little boys her own age at basketball. Not difficult to do in this case--the boys were absolute butterballs, and her daughter was fit and healthy. What was her problem?
If women had been accepted "as is" thirty years ago, players would have gradually improved as society found role models and began encouraging daughters to play sports as much as sons. We might today have female players that could "mop the floor" with the male players.
Girls have few or no role models in sports today. I am not a really big sports fan, but I can name at least a dozen well-known male players. I can't name one female sports star at all. :(
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Good points, Mr. Steve.
Now let's try to steer back towards Title IX ;)
End Quote
Didn't mean to divert the topic, Earl. Just had to defend the good people of Montreal from the unintended slur on their loyalty :)
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Didn't mean to divert the topic, Earl. Just had to defend the good people of Montreal from the unintended slur on their loyalty :)
End Quote
Thanks Steve, not too many people understand the frustration of being an Expos fan. But it's true what Rice said, it is stupid to keep this team in Montreal, when there are cities in the States that do have a market and could support a franchise.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Thanks Steve, not too many people understand the frustration of being an Expos fan. But it's true what Rice said, it is stupid to keep this team in Montreal, when there are cities in the States that do have a market and could support a franchise.
End Quote
It didn't help that the one season Felipe Alou got them on the brink of the playoffs, stupid Bud Selig cancelled the season because stupid players went on strike. I always pulled for the Expos though, despite them being not more than the premiere AAA team in the league ::) :D
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Girls have few or no role models in sports today. I am not a really big sports fan, but I can name at least a dozen well-known male players. I can't name one female sports star at all. :(
End Quote
Now we talked about this last night, hun ;)
Girls have a plethora (Jefe, what is a plethora?) of female athletes to look up to today. From Billie Jean King (who got Title IX rolling in the first place) to little Sarah Hughes, to Mia Hamm and any of the UConn Lady Huskies, PLENTY of role models. I can name a number of prominent female athletes off the top of my head, and that doesn't include gymnasts or figure skaters.
Women are getting more and more opportunities every day. It would be a double standard to punish the men's side so that the women can get even more of a "leg up".
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
It didn't help that the one season Felipe Alou got them on the brink of the playoffs, stupid Bud Selig cancelled the season because stupid players went on strike. I always pulled for the Expos though, despite them being not more than the premiere AAA team in the league ::) :D
End Quote
Hey Earl! I thought we were talking Title IX here...
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Hey Earl! I thought we were talking Title IX here...
End Quote
Yes, that was in the post below that ;D
Have you given a viewpoint yet?
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Yes, that was in the post below that ;D
Have you given a viewpoint yet?
End Quote
Viewpoint about what ???
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Viewpoint about what ???
End Quote
Title IX :)
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
No viewpoint on that. Sorry. I've got an opinion on Yao Ming, though, if that would help :D
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
No viewpoint on that. Sorry. I've got an opinion on Yao Ming, though, if that would help :D
End Quote
That's okay. I'd like to know what you think of Yao, this could be interesting. I personally think he needs to stop being so afraid of picking up fouls all the time, his defense could be so much better if he'd just throw down ;)
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Well... you chastised me once for going off topic... :-[ You sure it's okay?
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Well... you chastised me once for going off topic... :-[ You sure it's okay?End Quote
It doesn't matter...nobody cares about Title IX anyway it seems ::)
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Perhaps the interest in this thread is a direct correlation to the interest in womens sports?
Quoting:
It doesn't matter...nobody cares about Title IX anyway it seems ::)
End Quote
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Well, before we talk about Yao, I found this cool holiday recipe:
WATERMELON PICKLE FRUIT CAKE
1 C. halved candied cherries
1 C. slivered candied pineapple
1 C. light seedless raisins
1 (1 lb. 4 oz.) jar watermelon pickles, drained and slivered
1/2 C. watermelon pickle syrup
1 C. butter, softened
2 C. granulated sugar
5 eggs
3 C. sifted all-purpose flour
2 tsp. baking soda
1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 C. sherry
1 C. pecans, chopped
1 C. blanched slivered almonds
Combine fruits and pickle syrup; soak overnight. Cream butter; add sugar; cream again. Beat in eggs one at a time.
Sift together dry ingredients; reserve 1/4 cup. Add flour mixture to sugar mixture alternately with sherry.
Drain fruits; add nuts and reserved 1/4 cup flour mixture; blend well. Pour batter over fruits and nuts; mix. Pour into two prepared 9 x 5-inch loaf pans. Bake at 300ºF for 2 hours and 30 minutes to 2 hours and 40 minutes.
Cool in pans on racks. Chill 1 month before using to facilitate cutting.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Sweet :) I'll see if my mama is into watermelon pickle pie :D
As for women's interest...lots of women are interested in sports, and are very good at them too. Unfortunately if you say they're not as good as the men (which is sometimes the case) they get very offended. AND if you tell them they don't know as much about a sport as you, they will KILL you.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Remember to chill it one month before cutting.
Yao has got to be seriously considered for rookie of the year honors. Plus, he's pretty damn mature considering that he's in a foreign country.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
You are such a jerk! ;D LMAO ;D
And Rice is unflappable (almost). ;)
Quoting:
Remember to chill it one month before cutting.
Yao has got to be seriously considered for rookie of the year honors. Plus, he's pretty damn mature considering that he's in a foreign country.
End Quote
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
You are such a jerk! ;D LMAO ;D
And Rice is unflappable (almost). ;)
End Quote
:D
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
You are such a jerk! ;D LMAO ;D
And Rice is unflappable (almost). ;)
End Quote
Won't argue with any of that, Race. http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/cool/cool030.gif
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Now we talked about this last night, hun ;)
Girls have a plethora of female athletes to look up to today.
End Quote
Let me clarify my point a bit then. You and I figured it all out in PM's, but other people aren't mind readers.
What I was referring to was role-models of superstar-level status. Stars that even people who do not watch or like sports have heard of.
Most people have heard of Dennis Rodman, Magic Johnson, and Babe Ruth. Admittedly, they became known equally well for stuff unrelated to sports. But how many people who didn't follow basketball or baseball were drawn to look into sports just to see what all the hoo-ha was about?
How many female athletes are well-known outside of their chosen sport? (Not counting Nancy Kerrigan and the jealous B**ch who orchestrated the attack.)
I can't think of any off the top of my head....
And I did like the Gatorade commercial last year with Mia Hamm, but I had no idea what her name was till you told me. Now I'm paying a bit more attention to soccer in general...
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Well, Babe Ruth wasn't much famous for anything before he established a name for himself in baseball. And because he was so much better than anyone else in the era he was playing, he became famous.
Also, historically, Babe Dedrickson was an internationally famous woman golfer in the 1940s.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Well, Babe Ruth wasn't much famous for anything before he established a name for himself in baseball. And because he was so much better than anyone else in the era he was playing, he became famous.
Also, historically, Babe Dedrickson was an internationally famous woman golfer in the 1940s.
End Quote
Truthfully, I had never heard of Babe Ruth as a child. One day, I asked a friend of mine (who was also not into sports) "who is/was Babe Ruth, and why did they name a candy bar after him?"
She couldn't tell me either. It was the gentleman running the store (a recent immigrant still learning English) who informed us of Mr. Ruth's world-famous status in baseball.
There was little appeal in sports to me when I was younger. Quite a lot of it had to do with prevailing social attitudes. "Sports are not ladylike", "Girls should not be playing rough" "There's something wrong with a girl who likes to play/watch sports" etc.
Times have changed a little, but I still find few men willing to sit down and watch a game with me, and explain to me which moves are good and which are bad (and why).
I must sit there quietly, no talking, shut up. No questions til the commercials. ::) By that time the play has progressed to a point that I cannot properly explain what move I didn't understand. "The guy in the blue jersey who fell down while carrying the ball" tends to happen several times between commercials. :-/
I do not watch daytime soaps, but I do watch nighttime dramas. If someone, (male *or* female) has a question as to why a character is doing something I am perfectly willing to explain, even if I miss some dialog. That's what the VCR is for. I can play it back later for details and nuance.
So why won't guys do the same in my town?
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
I do not watch daytime soaps, but I do watch nighttime dramas. If someone, (male *or* female) has a question as to why a character is doing something I am perfectly willing to explain, even if I miss some dialog. That's what the VCR is for. I can play it back later for details and nuance.
So why won't guys do the same in my town?
End Quote
Shh! This play is important ;)
Just kidding.
It's "sports etiquette" to not discuss anything unless it's during an official or commercial timeout, or a stop in the action. Part of the reason is superstition, which is prevalent in sports. Another part is male chauvinism in thinking that women don't know what they're talking about and will ruin the moment (please see posts above in which I outline how knowledgeable women will kill you for just this statement).
Just go with the flow ;) Btw, men DO watch women's basketball and figure skating, and not just because the girls might be hot.
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Quoting:
Times have changed a little, but I still find few men willing to sit down and watch a game with me, and explain to me which moves are good and which are bad (and why).
I must sit there quietly, no talking, shut up. No questions til the commercials. ::) By that time the play has progressed to a point that I cannot properly explain what move I didn't understand. "The guy in the blue jersey who fell down while carrying the ball" tends to happen several times between commercials. :-/
I do not watch daytime soaps, but I do watch nighttime dramas. If someone, (male *or* female) has a question as to why a character is doing something I am perfectly willing to explain, even if I miss some dialog. That's what the VCR is for. I can play it back later for details and nuance.
So why won't guys do the same in my town?
End Quote
You've been watching sports with the wrong guys. I'm a sports nut, and I love to explain whats going on when a lady that really wants to learn about the sport is in the room. What does get on my nerves is someone who pretends to know the sport sits there and rambles on about something that they have no idea what they're talking about, trying to "impress".
Subject: Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, your input please...
Maybe if you watch a videotape of a game with someone. Watching and talking during an important game is a little like listening to a classical music concert and having your partner ask you questions like "What type of drum is that?" or "What do they call it when violins make that zz-zz-zz noise?" No matter how much you care for person and how legitimate the questions, they interfere pretty sharply with your ability to "get into it."