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Subject: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
What is up with this? Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?
Doctor who marked organ defends action
Patient sued after initials 'UK' were carved on uterus
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By Michael A. Lindenberger
mlindenberger@courier-journal
The Courier-Journal
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''. . . I felt this was honorable since it made reference to the College of Medicine where I received my medical degree and my . . . training,''
-Dr. J. Michael Guiler said.
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LEXINGTON, Ky. -- A doctor accused of carving the initials ''UK'' into the uterus of a woman undergoing a hysterectomy defended his work yesterday, saying the practice of marking organs to be removed is common and acceptable.
''The markings associated with this specific procedure were done for a medical reason, were not intended to demean the patient in any way and were done only with the patient's safety in mind,'' Dr. J. Michael Guiler said in a statement.
But Stephanie Means, who sued Guiler last week over the surgery conducted on her Aug. 14, and her attorneys rejected Guiler's explanations last night at the Lexington airport. Means had returned from a trip to New York, where she appeared on network television.
''So far the only person who we know to have said marking of any kind is acceptable procedure is Dr. Guiler,'' said Mike Dean, one of two attorneys representing Means.
The lawsuit claims Means and her family, who live in Richmond, suffered emotional distress by witnessing the video of the procedure. Dean and attorney Brenda Popplewell of Somerset said they have spoken to at least 10 other patients who say they were also marked with the initials UK by Guiler, a graduate of the University of Kentucky College of Medicine.
Officials at Central Baptist Hospital in Lexington, where the procedure took place, said an informal survey of other gynecologists showed that surgeons commonly use markings in such operations to better keep track of where to make surgical cuts.
But in a statement released yesterday, the hospital said physicians should use markings that do not offend patients.
''We have confirmed that marking the uterus in this type of surgical procedure is a step that can be used to identify anatomical landmarks, and is intended to assist the physician in the procedure,'' the hospital's statement said. ''While the markings are determined by the physician, it is the hospital's position that all patients be treated with dignity and respect, consistent with our Christian values.''
Guiler, who also appeared yesterday on ABC's ''Good Morning America'' and NBC's ''Today,'' to discuss the case, said in his statement that during the first part of the procedure he used a laser to mark the initials into the uterus because the shapes of the letters allow him to easily see where to cut during the second part of the surgery.
''Not only am I always able to remain orientated for the patient's safety, I felt this was honorable since it made reference to the College of Medicine where I received my medical degree and my obstetrical and gynecological training,'' he said.
Means said she was never told the surgery involved marking the uterus. Her attorneys said that had a marking been necessary, Guiler should not have used his alma mater's initials.
Guiler, who has practiced in Lexington for more than 20 years, said reports about the lawsuit have damaged his career.
''Since that time an avalanche of irresponsible reporting has created nothing less than a circus of unfair, unwarranted and inaccurate information,'' he said. ''In this atmosphere, the markings have been portrayed as some form of bizarre 'athletic branding' or prank. Let me assure you that such is clearly not the case and never has been. Markings are common in a variety of surgical procedures.''
Means, who said post-operative problems led her to watch the video, said the procedure left her and her family feeling violated.
Means said she didn't seek national publicity, but that ''once the story was reported locally, we didn't have a choice. They came to us.''
Stephanie Means, who said that she was never told that her hysterectomy required the doctor to mark her uterus, said that she and her family now feel violated.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
They talked about it on the radio station 99x out of Atlanta the other morning. I dont remember what exactly they said cause i didnt catch the whole thing.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
To be quite honest, who is going to see my uterus except the doctor? Get real. I don't care if they tattoo "eat at joes" just so long as I am feeling good and healthy. ::) ;D Now if he had branded somewhere that is going to, you know, show, that would be different.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Am I reading that right? He marked an organ that was being surgically removed? And the patient has a problem with it? ::)
Yeah, if he carved his initials into a part of my body I'm keeping I'll be severely ticked off. But if they are taking something out of me, I personally don't care what they do with it after. Go ahead, carve your initials into it, give it to the dog, whatever. :-/
When my mom had to have a hysterectomy, the doctor came in an made a couple of marks with a felt tip pen to show the surgeon where it was (it wasn't in the right place, part of the reason it was being taken out). He explained what he was doing and why, and mom was happy with it. Felt tip ink washes off.
Why was the patient watching the video afterwards? As long as the surgery goes well, I don't want to see how they did it Yuck!!!
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
whats the big deal. you cant see it so what will it hurt. every artist signs his work why cant a doctor. never know some day that brand might be worth someting
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
OOOOOH!!!! I thought this was strange, because the way I heard it, the uterus was still inside her ;D
I was like, "Dude, how'd she know?"
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
There was a case similar to this a few years ago, but the Dr actually carved his name into the patient's skin, if memory serves. I believe it was done during a c-section. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't see it and it isn't going to affect me in a negative way, you can draw the mona lisa. And, what is so offensive and violating about UK? It's not like he put 666 or KKK or something like that...
I remember now, it was just a Z, like Zorro would do.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
One of the major problems we have in our society is an idiot who will sue a doctor over trivial stuff. She is suing about and organ that has been surgically removed. She needs to get real. If these lawsuits keep up, there will be no more surgeons.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Quoting:
One of the major problems we have in our society is an idiot who will sue a doctor over trivial stuff. She is suing about and organ that has been surgically removed. She needs to get real. If these lawsuits keep up, there will be no more surgeons.
End Quote
Awwww, but she wanted to take her uterus home in a jar for display...now how's she going to do that with some wicked doctor's initials tattooed on it?
*joke disclaimer*
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
I may be in the minority here, but basing my belief on "common sense", the marking procedure was done without the consent of the patient herself. Although the "UK" branding isn't in itself offensive, Ms. Means was never consulted by Dr. Guiler that this procedure would be done. I'm surprised more Women's Rights groups haven't tried to ingrain this on the public yet. If I have "IU" carved in my intestinal tract, I would at least wanted to know the surgeon was going to perform the carving beforehand.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Quoting:
I may be in the minority here, but basing my belief on "common sense", the marking procedure was done without the consent of the patient herself. Although the "UK" branding isn't in itself offensive, Ms. Means was never consulted by Dr. Guiler that this procedure would be done. I'm surprised more Women's Rights groups haven't tried to ingrain this on the public yet. If I have "IU" carved in my intestinal tract, I would at least wanted to know the surgeon was going to perform the carving beforehand.
End Quote
If he carved the part of your intestine that was being removed, would you care?
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
You know, almost anything removed in a hospital is biopsied in the lab. Although the organ was, I'm sure, in a proper container, maybe the doctor marked it in this unique manner to aid in identifying it in case a mistake occurred somewhere along the line.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
No i dont think so cause from what i have heard the UK stands for where he went to school the University of Kentucky. That could be wrong but thats what i heard.
Quoting:
You know, almost anything removed in a hospital is biopsied in the lab. Although the organ was, I'm sure, in a proper container, maybe the doctor marked it in this unique manner to aid in identifying it in case a mistake occurred somewhere along the line.
End Quote
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
I reread the above article, Screwball. And IMHO, nowhere does it say when the initials were carved, before or after her hysterectomy. This is important because apparently puncturing any part of her body while it was still inside her is against her religious beliefs, if I am reading the article right. And think about it. Why would any doctor want to carve the initials of his/her alma mater other than self-grandizing? Can anyone here tell me that? ??? So the question you ask me is a moot point anyway, but if it was against my religion, I would sue regardless.
Quoting:
If he carved the part of your intestine that was being removed, would you care?
End Quote
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Unnecessary? Yes. It it was a mark for marking the next work to be done than a simple dash would do.
Deabilitating? No. No harm to the organ, it wasn't punctured, it was marked with a laser in an area that is going to be seen by no one.
Financial compensation? I hope not, if she's traumatized by something that simple than I don't know how she has lived her life this long. And the family traumatized as well? Gimme a break. ::)
The most that should come of it is a reprimand to the Dr. and a change in his policy.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Quoting:
This is important because apparently puncturing any part of her body while it was still inside her is against her religious beliefs, if I am reading the article right. End Quote
Quoting: So the question you ask me is a moot point anyway, but if it was against my religion, I would sue regardless.
End Quote
No, the hospital is the only one who mentioned religion. What I'm wondering is if they are trying to say that the marking caused the post-op problems she was having. And, whose to say that it is actually the marking or the actual procedure that is leaving her feeling violated? Hysterectomies wreak havoc on a woman's hormones. Maybe it was that that caused her feelings?
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
A simple dash would have sufficed; this doctor went too far. It's not like he was a painter or comic strip artist.
How does anyone know that a laser isn't as dangerous as scalpels? If you are to belive the news media, laser surgery is about as harmful, if not more than, traditional methods.
She, and not her family, should get some minimal compensation. The doctor not only should be reprimanded, but should have his license in that state revoked the next time other forms of quackery are brought up in his practicing history. He can always practice medicine in another state.
Quoting:
Unnecessary? Yes. It it was a mark for marking the next work to be done than a simple dash would do.
Deabilitating? No. No harm to the organ, it wasn't punctured, it was marked with a laser in an area that is going to be seen by no one.
Financial compensation? I hope not, if she's traumatized by something that simple than I don't know how she has lived her life this long. And the family traumatized as well? Gimme a break. ::)
The most that should come of it is a reprimand to the Dr. and a change in his policy.
End Quote
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Quoting:
I reread the above article, Screwball. And IMHO, nowhere does it say when the initials were carved, before or after her hysterectomy. This is important because apparently puncturing any part of her body while it was still inside her is against her religious beliefs, if I am reading the article right. And think about it. Why would any doctor want to carve the initials of his/her alma mater other than self-grandizing? Can anyone here tell me that? ??? So the question you ask me is a moot point anyway, but if it was against my religion, I would sue regardless.
End Quote
I don't think it said in the article that is was against her beliefs, but if puncturing was against her religious beliefs then wouldn't any mark the doctor made be against her beliefs? What if she had known about the marks before hand? Would she not have had the hysterectomy? Please. Anybody who has watched The Discovery Channel for longer than 5 minutes knows that doctors sometimes mark spots during an operation.
I think she wants money, and because of the marks the doctor used, she now has a chance to be rich. In the process she is going to ruin a perfectly good surgeons career, but oh well.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
ARGH! I hate sue-happy people!! Who the frig cares what the doc carved on a body part that was going to be removed! How the heck did that emotionally char her for the rest of her life? Give me a big friggin break. She doesn't give a hoot she just saw a window of opportunity to make some money and ran with it. If it REALLY did emotionally bother her then she needs to see a physotherapist more then a gyno!
Another post questioned as to why health care costs so much in the US. This is one example of why. Sue-happy people. That poor doc's malpractice insurance is now gonna shoot through the roof. Who's gonna end up paying for it? His patients. All cuz of some ding-bat woman. Next she'll be suing the hospital for not giving her poor ole uterus a proper burial.
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
I'll bet I'm the only person here that can speak from personal experience on this subject. I was in a tractor trailer wreck in '97 and one of my injuries was my mandible (jaw bone) broken completely in two. I got to know the oral surgeon quite well, and at the time Va. Tech was just coming in to their own as a national power in college football. Dr. Wise (great name, huh) was a WVU alumni and big football fan, and it just happened to be the week of the VPI - WVU football game, so to lighten the atmosphere, before the surgery, we razzed each other about the upcoming game. When I woke up from post-op, Dr. Wise said "You'll always have a little Mountaineer in you wherever you go from now on." "Hows that?" I asked. He said, "I carved WVU in your jaw bone during the surgery." And he was serious. One of the interns that assisted on the surgery backed him up. And I didn't mind a bit, in fact, I rather liked the fact of being a little.........different. So to make a long story short (too late for that, huh) I guess I'm like the majority of posters above when I say if you can't see it, and its not affecting you physically, whats the big deal?
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
"Anarchy in the UK" ;)
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
I just spoke to one of the team leads in OR and she says this guy is a wacko, so my vote changes to wacko. She says if we remove tissue for testing, the only type of marking done is a short length of suture to indicate anterior or posterior...
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Quoting:
Another post questioned as to why health care costs so much in the US. This is one example of why. Sue-happy people. That poor doc's malpractice insurance is now gonna shoot through the roof.
End Quote
Amen!!! Malpractice insurance is so expensive in this state (Mississippi) that a group of surgeons on the coast went on strike the other day. My own doctor practices without insurance because it's so expensive. I can see bringing a lawsuit for a legitimate reason, like a doctor leaving a surgical instrument inside of you, for instance, but this case is ridiculous!
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Quoting:Stephanie Means, who said that she was never told that her hysterectomy required the doctor to mark her uterus, said that she and her family now feel violated. End Quote
I understand that the marking was inappropriate, to be sure, but why should her family feel violated, and why should she receive any kind of compensation as this did not do any actual physical damage? And I really don't see how it should cause emotional damage....but that is just my humble opinion. To be quite honest I would have probably found this to be laughable...I have a strange sense of humor though. ;D
Subject: Re: Dr. "Marking" his Patient
Smoking Gun has the operation on video is anyone wants to see it.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/guiler1.html