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I totally agree with you.  He should be in the Hall of Fame because he was a great player.  Bud Selig needs to pull his head out and realize this.
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I don't think we will see Selig do anything for Pete or the fans unless it has a big fat $$$$ in front of it.  

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You know I'd love to have Pete in the Hall of Fame; after all, he has more hits than anyone else who has ever played the game!  I think Bart Giamatti died trying to kick Pete out of the Hall, since his short tenure as commissioner was marked by the Pete Rose gambling case…
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I'd have to agree, Pete Rose killed Giamatti (that and a three pack a day habit).  Pete did himself in, though, when he signed that agreement with the commissioner.

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I don't think we will see Selig do anything for Pete or the fans unless it has a big fat $$$$ in front of it.  
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You're right there.  I can't stand that man, I wish he would step down and let someone with common sense be the commissioner.  Yeah, that'll happen ::)

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Pete Rose deserves to be in the Hall...he shouldn't be punished for things that happened AFTER his playing days were over....period.
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Let's see.  Should Pete Rose, a good player w/a rule violation, be in the HOF?

Can you say, "Shoeless Joe Jackson"?
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You make an excellent point here, Rebel.  But then would you have to go retroactively to expel all the athletes who committed atrocities, like OJ Simpson or Ty Cobb the racist?  People in the Halls of Fame aren't elected for their charming personalities, but for their accomplishments on the field.  Perhaps if the Halls fixed their mandates so that all athletes were forced to have sunny personalities...but I guess there's no way you'd ever keep Barry Bonds out after the psychotic year he's had (which may or may not be due to steroids...?)

Quoting:This is the kind of thinking that has led scumbags like Mike Tyson to not only be convicted and go to jail, but get back into the sport after that!  That is LUDICROUS.  Sorry, that is not only rewarding bad behavior but setting yet another terrible example for everyone, including young people.  Just Great. End Quote

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Rules are rules.  If he violated them - and agreed to his punishment - tough luck.

Yes, Joe was great, too.  In those days they had the nerve to stand up and knock these guys down to size.  Even fans largely could shun them.  Now we have creeps like Tyson who still get worshipped (not to mention singer MJ, hot topic on this forum of late).  That's sick.  Sorry, this kind of stuff really burns me up.
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But then would you have to go retroactively to expel all the athletes who committed atrocities, like OJ Simpson or Ty Cobb the racist?  People in the Halls of Fame aren't elected for their charming personalities, but for their accomplishments on the field.  Perhaps if the Halls fixed their mandates so that all athletes were forced to have sunny personalities...but I guess there's no way you'd ever keep Barry Bonds out after the psychotic year he's had (which may or may not be due to steroids...?)
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Ah, but they weren't retroactively TAKEN OUT of the HOF - they never made it.  And it was decided at the point of conflict, not "after".  What you're saying would be retroactively pulled, long after the fact.  Not that I'd be against it, per se.  But again, we're talking about rules (I think - I'm no BB fan) that were violated and the people were caught.  That's just the way it happened.  Nothing wrong w/stepping up to the plate and excluding someone w/even a smidgeon of doubt about their character - esp if it's criminal.

Incidentally, I wouldn't mind if they took Ray Lewis out of FB.  I'm still squeemish about having him on our team.  I know he's supposed to be good at the game and all, but what in hell happened there in GA?  Kids everywhere get the idea this stuff is OK, and if you're a good athlete and everyone adores you, you can get away w/murder.  Well boo-hoo.  These guys have enough dough for doing nothing (yes, that's what I said) why should they need to get extra accolades to boot?  Their faces are already all over TV and print as it is.  That's enough fame.

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Kids everywhere get the idea this stuff is OK, and if you're a good athlete and everyone adores you, you can get away w/murder.  Well boo-hoo.  These guys have enough dough for doing nothing (yes, that's what I said) why should they need to get extra accolades to boot?  Their faces are already all over TV and print as it is.  That's enough fame.
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Kids seem to like the "rebellious" stuff though...plus even negative attention generates interest, and in turn, $$$$

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This is the kind of thinking that has led scumbags like Mike Tyson to not only be convicted and go to jail, but get back into the sport after that!  That is LUDICROUS.  Sorry, that is not only rewarding bad behavior but setting yet another terrible example for everyone, including young people.  Just Great.
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What people do in the arena of sports and outside it are two different things. Nobody has to be a role model, but they do have to follow the law. The problem with sports is they try and make an ethic which falls somewhere inbetween, and force athlets to follow it. In the case of Rose, I do not believe he should be kept out of the Hall of Fame. The case someone else made about pulling individuals out for infractions is valid. Does it matter that much if someone gets caught after they are admitted? What if Rose was admited to the HOF, only to have all this information come out? Would they have removed him?

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Nobody has to be a role model, but they do have to follow the law.
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If you are in the public eye, you ARE a role model, that is just the plain truth.  You are putting your butt on the line in front of whatever number are touched by your media coverage.  If you honestly think you're not going to be followed and your life won't be exposed, you are kidding yourself greatly.  That's the breaks in these types of vocations.  YOU CAN'T AVOID BEING A ROLE MODEL.  It's a fact if you're already exposing your very being for all the world to see.  That's part of the "job".  I can't understand why people deny this.  We all have jobs that come w/certain contingencies.  Entertainers, politicians, etc, simply have to deal w/that contingency as a matter of course!

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If you are in the public eye, you ARE a role model, that is just the plain truth.  End Quote

Not everyone in the public eye is a "role model" in the traditional sense of the word.  Nobody takes the place of trusted friends and family (and sometimes those folks totally $(*& up too).  

Charles Barkley once gave an interview and stated that he believed he was a bad role model and did not want to be anybody's role model.  I guess he, at least, was honest.  It's up to the individual to choose their role models, but they should at least make an educated decision about who they want to model themselves after.  I hope to the high heavens that they don't take Pauly Shore or Carrot Top as their role model (UGH!).

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If you honestly think you're not going to be followed and your life won't be exposed, you are kidding yourself greatly.End Quote

Well, they do get paid enough. I still have to revert to the question of why should someone be held to a higher standard? Because others may watch and imitate them? I do not think that is the problem of the athlete, I think that is the problem of the person who follows, the failings of the parents, the failings of the school and community. The BEST thing to do is let athletes be athletes, and when they do something stupid, expose them and let the public debate start. If the athlete is that wrong, they will get linched by the media. Just look at Rocker. If you ask me, I think what Rose did was worse, but who got delt the harsher hand by the media, and which behavior are you less likely to see in children?

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Now we have creeps like Tyson who still get worshipped (not to mention singer MJ, hot topic on this forum of late).  That's sick.  Sorry, this kind of stuff really burns me up.
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Who, exactly, worships Mike Tyson or Michael Jackson?  The only reason we read about them is for their tabloid value.  
Tyson seems to be universally regarded as a strange and dangerous individual, and is probably one more mouthful of ear cartilege away from the scrap heap.  Even Don King isn't returning his calls anymore.  

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Who, exactly, worships Mike Tyson or Michael Jackson?  The only reason we read about them is for their tabloid value.  
Tyson seems to be universally regarded as a strange and dangerous individual, and is probably one more mouthful of ear cartilege away from the scrap heap.  Even Don King isn't returning his calls anymore.  
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I watched Mike Tyson on the Best Damn Sports Show Period, and he seems to have developed a sense of humor! Although there was some tension when the schedualed comedian performed a skit about Tyson, in a high pitched voice. For a second it felt like a bruhaha was going to start. Then Tyson imitated the comedian. It was kinda funny to watch.

To be honest, I kinda feel bad for Tyson. I watched a biography on him, and from what I can tell he has no self-worth. Raised to druged out parents, beaten on the streets, adopted by a white family and taught how to box, and then currupted and robbed by Don King. His life kinda sucks.

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What about Michael Jordan?  He has been caught gambling on sports, rumor here has it his little side trip into baseball after his first retirement was because of it, but is there any question whether or not he will be inducted into the basketball HOF?
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I don't think Jordan was ever caught betting on basketball.  At least not when he was playing and/or managing a basketball team.  

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If they let Rose back in, what about "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and the other Black Sox players?
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That's just what I was thinking.  BUT do they judge that the Black Sox committed crimes far worse than Rose's?   ???

It's one thing to gamble on a game or two...it's another to throw the World Series.

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That's just what I was thinking.  BUT do they judge that the Black Sox committed crimes far worse than Rose's?   ???

It's one thing to gamble on a game or two...it's another to throw the World Series.
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Maybe a difference of degree.  But if Rose bets on the team he's managing in my books it's as bad if not worse.  Even if he bets that his team wins, he might, to win the bet, overuse his ace reliever to nail it down.  Any move he makes is tainted by the fact he has money on the game.
The more I think about this one the less I like it.  It would have been a lot better if Rose had come forward years ago and fess up (if that's how it's going to play out)

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If he did it in the first place, he should have outright confessed.  But right now it seems to me like it's a copout...

But as to whether he gets in or not...I guess the Hall of Fame is for greatness ON the field, not how one was perceived as a person.  Cooperstown has people like Cobb (dirty racist b@st@rd) and Mantle (drunken madman) in there.
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Racists and drunks, as bad as they are, don't undermine the integrity of the game.  Gamblers do.  
Cobb was investigated by Commissioner Landis in regards to gambling allegations toward the end of his career.  He was cleared, but it's still a murky issue, and some historians think he may have been involved in throwing a game or two.

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I see that you've been keepin' this one alive, Rice.  Still hold to my thoughts that he deserves to be in, even in light of the recent developments.  He was just too talented.  
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There's not much to add, everyone's made all the major points as to why he should/shouldn't go in.  I guess at the very least, Pete has the knowledge that he deserved to be in Cooperstown, even though he might not make it in.

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But I've heard some serious sports writers say that even without the gambling allegations, they wouldn't vote for Rose on the first ballot.  They argued that even though he has the career hits record, it took him forever to get there. They also said that although he was consistently good for a number of years, he was never the greatest player in baseball at the time, or even the greatest at his position.
Without the gambling, I personally would vote for Rose on the first ballot.
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