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That's right, guys, blame us.  Blame the people who support us.  Don't get pissed at butchering bastards who make a living of blowing all kinds of people to bits.
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Exactly blame us for the terror, but don't support the plan to get rid of terror.

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That's right, guys, blame us.  Blame the people who support us.  Don't get pissed at butchering bastards who make a living of blowing all kinds of people to bits.
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The the US arms industry?
I'm sure they make a fine living >:(

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Exactly blame us for the terror, but don't support the plan to get rid of terror.
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Dropping more bombs on more innocent people is hardly a plan to get rid of terror!

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The the US arms industry?
I'm sure they make a fine living >:(
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Again, just another ludicrous and asinine statement.  >:(

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Dropping more bombs on more innocent people is hardly a plan to get rid of terror!
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That's Bush's plan right there drop bombs on inocent people. thats what he wants to do.  he doesn't want to get rid of people sponsoring terrorism, oh no. He Just wants to kill civilians.  ::)

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Its no secret that the heinous bombings in Bali Indonesia were meant as a terrorist threat to Australia for our Prime Minister's support of George Bush in his stance against Saddam.

Bali is a top destination for Australians at this time of year - and at least 2/3 of the 200 victims found so far are said to be Australian. Most were AFL and local football teams that flew there after the season's wrap up, as well as honeymooners and celebrating school-leavers. Had this occurred after exams, 2 weeks from now and the island would have been teeming with students aged between 17 and 22.

When we pay for our 'support' with Australians lives, it absolutely makes me livvid! The vast majority of the Aus population DON'T want to support Bush's campaign, though it seems that the decisions made by our a**hole politicians, have already seen Australia paid a heavy price in blood.

I saw disturbing and offensive footage last night on 60 mins that totally took me back to September 11th last year... terrorism has NO place in modern day society - these people are SICK!

Anyone else have any comments?
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The people that did this bombing don't care about Austrailia's stand on the war on terrorism. They are muslim extremist that hate western society.  Your a westerner or a capitalist or believe in freedom they hate you.  They are not sitting there before they bomb a place and thinking "Well Austrailia dosen't support GW, so lets not bomb today".  

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They are muslim extremist that hate western society.  Your a westerner or a capitalist or believe in freedom they hate you. End Quote

Yeah right...
These are people who see there wives/children killed everyday in US (or US sponsored) attacks - eg Iraq, Afghanistan.
These are people who have no freedom or democracy because the US (and others) give military support to their oppressors - eg Palestine, Vietnam.

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Yeah right...
These are people who see there wives/children killed everyday in US (or US sponsored) attacks - eg Iraq, Afghanistan.
These are people who have no freedom or democracy because the US (and others) give military support to their oppressors - eg Palestine, Vietnam.
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Palestine? perfect example.  Isreal an oppressors?  Isreal was the only nation that gave them a little freedom and look what happened.  Isreali citizens were killed at there resturaunts, the same way that this bombing happened in Bali. Palestine would rather get treated like shit by muslims than be treated decent by Jews.  Hey you blame the US and Isreal for palestine, so why not blame them for the recent bombing? It is the same flawed logic.  If anything this recent bombing should drum up more support for the war on terror.    

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Isreal was the only nation that gave them a little freedom and look what happened.  
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Exactly what freedom did Israel give the Palestinians?
They had a country once, now they live under 'apartheid' in a fraction of their land which isn't theirs anymore.
I'm sure if Iraqis turned up in Texas and claimed it as their own, the US army would waste little time convincing them of their error.  The Palestinians have been very restrained in their fight against oppression and invasion.
I guess it's pointless to mention 28 UN resolutions?

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Exactly what freedom did Israel give the Palestinians?
They had a country once, now they live under 'apartheid' in a fraction of their land which isn't theirs anymore.
I'm sure if Iraqis turned up in Texas and claimed it as their own, the US army would waste little time convincing them of their error.  The Palestinians have been very restrained in their fight against oppression and invasion.
I guess it's pointless to mention 28 UN resolutions?


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They could Vote, for one. They Never had their own country, they have never been a country.  they got kicked out of Jordan and no one was complaining, but when Isreal tries to defend themselfs the palestinians are all of the sudden an inocent oppressed nation that got kicked out of thier own homes by the evil jews.

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These are people who see there wives/children killed everyday in US (or US sponsored) attacks - eg Iraq, Afghanistan.
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Unlikely in this case: AFAICT the perpetrators were probably muslim extremists but have never seen anybody remotely close to a relative killed in the Middle East - whether they actually have any links to Al Quaeda

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These are people who have no freedom or democracy because the US (and others) give military support to their oppressors - eg Palestine, Vietnam.
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Not in Indonesia.  Just because some people somewhere have a grievance against the US or whoever, doesn't mean you can call an open season against whosoever is vaguely connected to them.

Phil

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Not in Indonesia.  Just because some people somewhere have a grievance against the US or whoever, doesn't mean you can call an open season against whosoever is vaguely connected to them.
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Nothing justifies that kind of action, that's pretty much my whole point.

(Actually, in Indonesia it's the British giving arms to the bad guys)

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Nothing justifies that kind of action, that's pretty much my whole point.
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You had started to sound like you were justifying that kind of action based on the suffering other people of the same religion, but with no other connection to the victims.

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(Actually, in Indonesia it's the British giving arms to the bad guys)
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<Sigh>... so much for an ethical foreign policy ;-)  ...but it's selling, rather than giving, so at least we make some money out of it ::)

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They could Vote, for one. They Never had their own country, they have never been a country.  they got kicked out of Jordan and no one was complaining, but when Isreal tries to defend themselfs the palestinians are all of the sudden an inocent oppressed nation that got kicked out of thier own homes by the evil jews.
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Oh, come on: you can't call what Israel is doing at the moment "defending itself"!  Its own actions seem calculated to inflame opposition, and increase the number and motivation of the suicide bombers. If Sharon can't see that, then he's a fool; either that, or he's a warmongering rogue: personally, I tend to the latter viewpoint - that he knows exactly what he's doing, as that's what will keep him in power.

Yrs cynically

Phil

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Yeah, thanks lads for the warmth and understanding...stuff you and your politics...I'm talkin the human cost here...its still very fresh and very current...I dont need your detailed misdirected analysis on the politics...there are still people unaccounted for all over this land and this suddenly turns into a thread of 'one-upmanship' - a display of who professes to know more bullsh*t knowledge than the other. *yawn*
Like, wheres yer f**king compassion?

Fact is, Australia was deliberately targeted to put us in the line of fire by these fundamentalists. I was certainly not BLAMING BUSH you sod... I was blaming "OUR" FREAKIN POLITICIANS... like, WHAT PART OF THAT DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? *sheesh!*  ::)
I'm totally with you Zella - its not worth having an opinion around here...I'll let you kids squabble over it while I go and console close friends and colleagues.
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You started this thread by asking for opinions.  While I don't agree with everything everyone has said, they were giving you their honestly held opinions.  If anyone misunderstand you, I'm sure it was unintentional.

It sounds like you're pretty close to the latest attack site.  The battle casualties in this strange new war were, again, innocents.  I'm not surprised the footage sickened you.  And angered you.  But we are all allies now, fighting this invisible and illusive demon.  I wouldn't normally speak for all on this site, but believe that all our thoughts and prayers are with you.

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BTW Indy Gent - yeah after the hackers hit the forum in April, thats when i lost my posts...but what was your screenname back then? I dont recall "Indy gent" at all!?
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First he was America..then he went to J.C. before he settled with Indy Gent

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Hi, yeah, youre right...Im pretty close to the drama (4 hrs flying from here)...many friends from Perth here visit Kuta regularly (I myself have sat in that very club on several occasions)...I think my comments were aimed at a few of the first respondants... I was asking for comments, and naturally everyone is entitled to their opinions...just a few of 'em lacked the same compassion the world expressed after the Sept 11 horror...and as my 2 posts proved...I was being misunderstood and accused of blaming G.Bush for this debarcle. Apologies to any of you who read my second response as being punctuated with sweeping generalisations that encompass the lot of you...thats not what they were. Yeah, I'm grumpy and outraged and a bit scared, much like anyone else in Aus right now. I just think that it SUCKS when the views of a whole nation is supposed to be lead by a speaker FOR the nation...not crooks who willingly endanger a country by making weighted and heavy statements internationally; and do not foresee the impact and obvious dangers. Our P.M when asked "Do you feel this is a threat to Australia in light of your alliance with the campaign against Saddam" has simply answered "I don't accept that analysis". Like, who's he trying to kid!? Its the citizens that are dying here!

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Aphasia, I know it's me you're basically cussing at and accusing of lacking compassion.

I am saddened by Australia's (as well as Indonesia's and surely some others') loss - but as w/my own Sept. 11, I am mostly angry.  This is not just some natural disaster to be sad about, "them's fightin' actions"!  I am also angry as **** about the a$$hole going around shooting people in my backyard.  My view is pull up your sleeves and duke it out, not just sit down and cry.  (As if I could do anything myself.)

But when people refer to support for the US and say that's why they're dying, it just seems a real slap in the face.  The 2nd post undeniably said it's all the US fault and the fault of people who take bribes from us?  That's asinine is so many ways.  And it's exactly what I said - blaming some 3rd/4th/5th party for troubles.  The problem is the a$$holes who actually do the dirty deed!  They have no excuse no matter what!  Can't we try to see it that way?

We over here, sure enough, started quickly going into conniptions about who to blame.  We started forgetting about al-Queda, et al - perhaps because it's easier to find others to blame and punish?  But even though I don't like liberal immigration views and policies, etc, I don't go off acting like it's all liberal Americans' fault that 3000+ died at once.  But this is the kind of thing I hear all the time (Americans included) - like it's our fault and so we should pay for it somehow?  (We already did!)  That is injustice and is not right, no matter how you slice it.

Appeasement isn't going to work; it's been going on w/various groups for ages already.  It's happened in the past that sitting by or making nice-nice doesn't work w/evil.  I view that no matter what you do, you can't win.  The simple fact is the vast majority hates us (and alot of things) no matter what is done, and we're probably going to get killed no matter what.  Better to reduce it by acting rather than ineffective coddling.  It's the same thing on the mean streets.  We're told to roll over and die for crooks - give them everything, etc., that way maybe they won't hurt you.  But guess what?  They kill you anyway - you might as well go down swinging - and maybe you won't go down and they will.  And you'll have prevented others from suffering at their hands.

Maybe this sounds inflammatory, but it's the truth.  Again, I know you won't believe me in my state of mind here, but I am angered and saddened by the brutal butchering actions of such as this.  I can see you're saying that you're mostly mad at your politicians, but it implied (both by connection and by strong language) you're mad at the US, and w/o doubt someone else squarely blamed us and accuses us of bribery, et al.

In fact, I'd say, please turn your anger to the bastards who do this crap w/the weakest excuse - and sometimes none at all.  Don't "blame" your politicians.  You might think they're not helping, but don't make them the butt of your wrath.  The criminals are not on your shores.  (Well, we assume not.)  Stick to your last statement there.  Yes, these people are SICK - AND EVIL, AND NEED TO BE WIPED OUT!

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But when people refer to support for the US and say that's why they're dying, it just seems a real slap in the face.  The 2nd post undeniably said it's all the US fault and the fault of people who take bribes from us?  That's asinine is so many ways.  And it's exactly what I said - blaming some 3rd/4th/5th party for troubles.  The problem is the a$$holes who actually do the dirty deed!  They have no excuse no matter what!  Can't we try to see it that way?
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I'm sorry you missunderstood my post so I'll clarify!
The US are not to blame for Indonesia, that is the fault of the people who planned/carried out/supported that action.  Likewise for Sept 11, Afghanistan, etc.
My post was aimed at British politicians who ignore democracy and support terrorism in my name (as alluded to by the previous post)