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Subject: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59405,00.html
The FBI want's to give congress a polygraph test to see who did not leak information before 9/11. Congress objects to this, I wonder what they they have to hide.
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
I wonder what they they have to hide.
End Quote
I'm sure they have tons of things to hide. ::)
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59405,00.html
The FBI want's to give congress a polygraph test to see who did not leak information before 9/11. Congress objects to this, I wonder what they they have to hide.
End Quote
I bet they have plenty of horrible things to hide :o
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Professional, full-time politicians are the worst people to put on a polygraph: a lot of the time they fully believe their own lies (with all their heart and soul), so won't show up on as lying; the things that get them worked up or embarrass them (and so will make the needles dance like crazy) are unlikely to be remotely useful to people like the FBI, unless their intent is finding stuff to blackmail them with.
IMO, polygraphs should never be used as evidence, except in the one-in-a-million "the guy should never have reacted to that question" sort of case. If the suspect knows he/she is being tested (which in theory is required), then anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together can fool it, or at least generate enough background "noise" to render the results worthless; people who lie for a living (politicians, lawyers etc) will never give a usable graph.
Phil
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Sounds like political kite-flying to me. Polygraphs are virtually useless.
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59405,00.html
I wonder what they they have to hide.
End Quote
Who Knows with stupid Congress
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
Sounds like political kite-flying to me. Polygraphs are virtually useless.
End Quote
I think your right here, the polygraph is not the point. The point is that congress considers themselfs above the law. Congress which is in the legislative branch feel that they can Investigate the Executive branch, but the Executive branch can not investigate them, because of a "seperation of powers". Our branches of government are supose to be equal, but one feels they are above the other two.
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
I think you're right here, the polygraph is not the point. The point is that congress considers themselfs above the law.
End Quote
But surely the innaccuracy of the polygraph is the point? Who wants to be put under the spotlight of a machine which could "prove" anything?
Phil
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
I think your right here, the polygraph is not the point. The point is that congress considers themselfs above the law.End Quote
Q: Does US law require people to submit to polygraph tests?
Quoting:
But surely the innaccuracy of the polygraph is the point? Who wants to be put under the spotlight of a machine which could "prove" anything?
End Quote
Well yes! - Scary stuff
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
Q: Does US law require people to submit to polygraph tests?
End Quote
No, They don't have to according to the law, but congress is the one who asked the FBI to do the test in the first place.
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
But surely the innaccuracy of the polygraph is the point? Who wants to be put under the spotlight of a machine which could "prove" anything?
Phil
End Quote
If it wasn't a polygraph test, but some other type of investigation, such as congress "releasing documents" to the FBI they still would not do it, Because of their lame excuse. If that is the case, i don't want to here congress calling for an investigation into anyone in the Executive Branch.
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Let me think about this a sec.....hmmm...congress/politicians....lie detector test....hey another oxy-moron :D
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
If it wasn't a polygraph test, but some other type of investigation, such as congress "releasing documents" to the FBI they still would not do it, Because of their lame excuse. If that is the case, i don't want to here congress calling for an investigation into anyone in the Executive Branch.
End Quote
I know what you mean: however, I do have a special aversion to polygraphs for any kind of investigation at all - when I was about 14 I read how Jim Di Griz beats a polygraph in "The Stainless Steel Rat Saves The World"; two or three years later, I had the chance to put the idea into practice with a real "lie detector" and had the thing completely fooled - no training, just a basic idea of how it works and a hyperactive imagination was enough to get through the following whoppers:
"I always get all my homework in on time"
"I think Margaret Thatcher is the best Prime Minister this country has ever had"
...whereas it leapt halfway off the scale when I said (truthfully) I'd always been true to my girlfriend. S**t, the trouble I'd have been in if she'd actually been there ;-)
Phil
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
I know what you mean: however, I do have a special aversion to polygraphs for any kind of investigation at all - when I was about 14 I read how Jim Di Griz beats a polygraph in "The Stainless Steel Rat Saves The World"; two or three years later, I had the chance to put the idea into practice with a real "lie detector" and had the thing completely fooled - no training, just a basic idea of how it works and a hyperactive imagination was enough to get through the following whoppers:
"I always get all my homework in on time"
"I think Margaret Thatcher is the best Prime Minister this country has ever had"
...whereas it leapt halfway off the scale when I said (truthfully) I'd always been true to my girlfriend. S**t, the trouble I'd have been in if she'd actually been there ;-)
Phil
End Quote
If thier that easy to fool, I don't why they use so much here in the US. If I had a higher security clearence in the Navy, I would of had to take one. I also Applied for a job once that upon accepting, I would of had to take one as well. Guess if I ever have to take one I'll ask you for some advice.
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
If thier that easy to fool, I don't why they use so much here in the US.
End Quote
I've often wondered that myself, also how many innocent people have been locked away because of inappropriate reactions on a polygraph.
Quoting:
I also Applied for a job once that upon accepting, I would of had to take one as well. Guess if I ever have to take one I'll ask you for some advice.
End Quote
The key is meditation (calming yourself down when there's a question that ought to get a rise out of you) and winding yourself up about something that ought not to - a friend of mine shortly beforehand was on a heart rate monitor, and some guys whispered "think of sex" - his heart rate went up from 80s to 130s! I used a similar sort of technique ;-)
Phil
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Another method I read about (but never had the opportunity to test)..
You will be asked control questions and then pertinent questions. You should give a higher reaction to the control (if you're telling the truth)
Attach a drawing pin (thumb tack) to your toe, whenever you are asked a control question, push it against your foot.
Personally I prefer the 'meditation' technique ;D
Subject: Re: Congress Members to take lie detector test?
Quoting:
Attach a drawing pin (thumb tack) to your toe, whenever you are asked a control question, push it against your foot.
Personally I prefer the 'meditation' technique ;D
End Quote
IOW a polygraph can't distinguish between a physiological and psychological reaction - the other thing you can do with the pin technique is cause lots of unexplained spikes which will invalidate the test results
Phil