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Subject: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowbar?
Every morning when I boot up my computer, it plays the first few bars of any song I choose from my colletion of tapes, records and cd's....and the copyright laws allow us to make copies for our own use or even to share for no profit. That right to use things we paid for is under attack, under the guise of protecting itellectual property from theft. Here are just a few shorts on this subject: Sen. Fritz Hollings, a South Carolina Democrat, wants to make it illegal to sell computers that don't have some mechanism built-in to make it impossible to copy material whose owners don't want it to be copied. That is to say, you buy a CD with some copyrighted music and maybe you want to take it with you on the road, so you burn a copy from your computer to play in your car. That is perfectly legal as long as you don't sell the copy, but Hollings wants to make it impossible by requiring all computers to have a chip that would read an embedded message and therefore render your "Burner" useless....The Publishing industry figured out that most people find it easier to pay $25 for a book then to copy it page by page. The Music Industry might see the light too, and quit charging nearly $20 for something that costs less than a dollar to make-but alas, the trend is going the other way, I'm afraid.
There was also recently, the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov, a Russian programmer, who figured out a way to get around the copy-protection scheme that Adobe Systems uses for e-books. So how about an analogy: You can use a crowbar to get into your house and bolt cutters to remove your padlocks. They both have legitimate uses and it's only a crime if you use them in an illegal way.
It's not a crime to possess a crowbar, or tell people where they can find one. So why does some third-rate movie on DVD rate more protection-and federal protction at that- the your front door or mine? It's probably because I don't make campaign contibutions, and the motion picture and software industries do. They whine about how many billions of dollars they lose every year because of illegal copying, but for one thing, most of those "Billions of dollars in lost sales" never would have been sales. Most people who use bootleg versions aren't the people who would've purchased legitimate ones. And the publishing industry manages to survive even though there's a copyright-circumvention device.....a copying machine....in almost every office. So now they want to put people in jail for telling us how to do something we have a Right to do? Our freedom is being atttacked in many ways, just look over your shoulder...to Washington >:(
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Wow!
Very Political. I see your point. About the bootleg cd's. Okay.
>:(They say they lost billions of dollars, but seriously do you see any of the stars suffering. N*SYNC's "No Strings Attached" was on Napster and they still beat the record of highest album sales. Britney Spears still has a 3 million dollar mansion\house. The BackStreet Boys are still filthy rich. Master P's bedroom cost 3 million dollars. I guess he's not doing bad.
The industry sure as hell doesn't lose money. Good concert tickets are still $60 and higher. :o
AND! THis is the part that infuriates me. THEY AREN"T LOSING MONEY, because all they do is just make the people who work in sweatshops work harder. The cd itself cost $1.00 the people who make them make less than that in some cases .14 cents for 10 hours of regular work and 8 hours forced overtime(with no extra pay! >:()
Its just a bunch of lies they use to make us pay more.
And about the special computers. They wouldn't do that. It would be a waste of money because people wouldn't buy the computer with the burner unless they could use it. Then you'd have hundreds and thousands of computers nobody wanted. I myself would just keep the one i have and keep on burning cd's. I dont buy a new computer every time one comes out. :P
Uh oh, I've gone and written a novel. Bye
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
Wow!
Very Political. I see your point. About the bootleg cd's. Okay.
>:(They say they lost billions of dollars, but seriously do you see any of the stars suffering. N*SYNC's "No Strings Attached" was on Napster and they still beat the record of highest album sales. Britney Spears still has a 3 million dollar mansion\house. The BackStreet Boys are still filthy rich. Master P's bedroom cost 3 million dollars. I guess he's not doing bad.
The industry sure as hell doesn't lose money. Good concert tickets are still $60 and higher. :o
AND! THis is the part that infuriates me. THEY AREN"T LOSING MONEY, because all they do is just make the people who work in sweatshops work harder. The cd itself cost $1.00 the people who make them make less than that in some cases .14 cents for 10 hours of regular work and 8 hours forced overtime(with no extra pay! >:()
Its just a bunch of lies they use to make us pay more.
And about the special computers. They wouldn't do that. It would be a waste of money because people wouldn't buy the computer with the burner unless they could use it. Then you'd have hundreds and thousands of computers nobody wanted. I myself would just keep the one i have and keep on burning cd's. I dont buy a new computer every time one comes out. :P
Uh oh, I've gone and written a novel. Bye
End Quote
It appears that we both have :D
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Er....if crowbars are made illegal, will criminals then have to batter their way through your door with a lawn dart? ;)
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
Er....if crowbars are made illegal, will criminals then have to batter their way through your door with a lawn dart? ;)
End Quote
;D
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
They're making these laws to stop people like me. I have 1.5Mbps DSL service, a 24x burner, and lots of time. Just this weekend I decided I wanted the Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure soundtrack on CD (mind you, I already own it on tape). So, I fired up the machine, slapped a blank disk in the ol' burner, and logged onto AudioGalaxy. In 1/2 hour I had all the songs, arranged them in the right order in Nero, and not 10 minutes later had myself the soundtrack on CD. Even made a label for it. Now, while what I did was perfectly legal, as I already owned the soundtrack, the EASE with which I could do it is what they hate.
Now, I'm going to freely admit I'm a pirate, and do also download stuff I *DON'T* already own. But I have to face facts, I want a particular song, and don't feel like forking over $10 - $20 for a CD to get that song. I also must say that since I started downloading music, I have found myself BUYING more as well. In the 10 years prior to installing Napster, I made about 2 CD or tape purchases per year. Now I find myself buying 1 per month. At least, that's how it was until about a year ago, when I stoppped buying music altogether, and refused to ever buy music again.
Why, do you ask? I'll answer it with 5 words: Eagles Live two CD set.
I bought this one at K-Mart, and paid almost 30 dollars for it, a rather kingly fee. Got it home, and loved it, as I'd always loved the copy on tape I'd made of my friends CD. Then for the hell of it and because I wanted to be able to use it in my car, I popped a blank disk in my comp and put the first CD in my player. Then I prepared to copy all of the songs to the blank, and noticed I had a lot of room left. So I popped in the second disk to see how many of the songs I could fit. How many do you think it was?
You guessed it, I fit the ENTIRE second CD onto the SAME disk, and that included a 2 second pause in between each song, which I accidentally did. And here I just paid nearly $30 for this thing on *2* disks!!! So, they split up the stuff on two disks, and charged $10 more for a collection of music that would EASILY fit on 1! When I realized this, I swore I would never buy another music CD. Nothing epitomized the greed of the record companies more than this bit of robbery.
If I buy music now, I buy it used at yard sales, pawn shops, etc. Never again will I buy new. Never will I pay money to the record companies, and the first thing I do now with each CD is rip the songs to MP3's and share them.
Now they want to find ways to prevent even this. They introduce copy protection on CD's, and in many instances this prevents the CD from even being PLAYED on your computer. My computer IS my stereo system. If I can't play a CD I have on my computer, somebody has violated my rights. Not to mention the violation of my rights to make a COPY of any tape or CD I purchase. If they introduce copy protection, isn't that a violation of my rights to protect my purchase? I mean, I *NEVER* use my original CD's. I only use copies. If they make it so I can't make copies, aren't they violating my right to protect my originals?
And how about the RIAA's efforts to make us have to have a license when we wish to buy a CD burner or blank disks, and have to go through a background check much like when you wish to buy a firearm in order to buy these things? How about their attempts to make the manufacturer's of these things pay them a fee for every item sold, as compensation for "lost revenue"? What if I'm not buying these things for music use? Why should I have to pay an increased price that has been increased to cover the fees to the RIAA? That's like making one of my competitors pay me a fee every time one of my customers does business with them. I did nothing to EARN that money, like the RIAA does nothing to deserve a fee from manufacturers of blank CD's and burners and labels and software.
OK, I'm done ranting for now...
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
They're making these laws to stop people like me. I have 1.5Mbps DSL service, a 24x burner, and lots of time. Just this weekend I decided I wanted the Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure soundtrack on CD (mind you, I already own it on tape). So, I fired up the machine, slapped a blank disk in the ol' burner, and logged onto AudioGalaxy. In 1/2 hour I had all the songs, arranged them in the right order in Nero, and not 10 minutes later had myself the soundtrack on CD. Even made a label for it. Now, while what I did was perfectly legal, as I already owned the soundtrack, the EASE with which I could do it is what they hate.
Now, I'm going to freely admit I'm a pirate, and do also download stuff I *DON'T* already own. But I have to face facts, I want a particular song, and don't feel like forking over $10 - $20 for a CD to get that song. I also must say that since I started downloading music, I have found myself BUYING more as well. In the 10 years prior to installing Napster, I made about 2 CD or tape purchases per year. Now I find myself buying 1 per month. At least, that's how it was until about a year ago, when I stoppped buying music altogether, and refused to ever buy music again.
Why, do you ask? I'll answer it with 5 words: Eagles Live two CD set.
I bought this one at K-Mart, and paid almost 30 dollars for it, a rather kingly fee. Got it home, and loved it, as I'd always loved the copy on tape I'd made of my friends CD. Then for the hell of it and because I wanted to be able to use it in my car, I popped a blank disk in my comp and put the first CD in my player. Then I prepared to copy all of the songs to the blank, and noticed I had a lot of room left. So I popped in the second disk to see how many of the songs I could fit. How many do you think it was?
You guessed it, I fit the ENTIRE second CD onto the SAME disk, and that included a 2 second pause in between each song, which I accidentally did. And here I just paid nearly $30 for this thing on *2* disks!!! So, they split up the stuff on two disks, and charged $10 more for a collection of music that would EASILY fit on 1! When I realized this, I swore I would never buy another music CD. Nothing epitomized the greed of the record companies more than this bit of robbery.
If I buy music now, I buy it used at yard sales, pawn shops, etc. Never again will I buy new. Never will I pay money to the record companies, and the first thing I do now with each CD is rip the songs to MP3's and share them.
Now they want to find ways to prevent even this. They introduce copy protection on CD's, and in many instances this prevents the CD from even being PLAYED on your computer. My computer IS my stereo system. If I can't play a CD I have on my computer, somebody has violated my rights. Not to mention the violation of my rights to make a COPY of any tape or CD I purchase. If they introduce copy protection, isn't that a violation of my rights to protect my purchase? I mean, I *NEVER* use my original CD's. I only use copies. If they make it so I can't make copies, aren't they violating my right to protect my originals?
And how about the RIAA's efforts to make us have to have a license when we wish to buy a CD burner or blank disks, and have to go through a background check much like when you wish to buy a firearm in order to buy these things? How about their attempts to make the manufacturer's of these things pay them a fee for every item sold, as compensation for "lost revenue"? What if I'm not buying these things for music use? Why should I have to pay an increased price that has been increased to cover the fees to the RIAA? That's like making one of my competitors pay me a fee every time one of my customers does business with them. I did nothing to EARN that money, like the RIAA does nothing to deserve a fee from manufacturers of blank CD's and burners and labels and software.
OK, I'm done ranting for now...
End Quote
It's about time you replied with a GREAT opinion...this is the kind of sh*t I live for :D
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
It's about time you replied with a GREAT opinion...this is the kind of sh*t I live for :D
End Quote
This is what happens when you get me started, and don't EVEN get me started on the CARP proposal for web radio broadcasters... If THAT one goes through, I'll probably have to shut down Renegade Retro...
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
I couldn't do without my crowbar. I need it to bash the heads of criminals that try to break into the house with a crowbar. ;D
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
Eagles Live two CD set.
I bought this one at K-Mart, and paid almost 30 dollars for it, a rather kingly fee. Got it home, and loved it, as I'd always loved the copy on tape I'd made of my friends CD. Then for the hell of it and because I wanted to be able to use it in my car, I popped a blank disk in my comp and put the first CD in my player. Then I prepared to copy all of the songs to the blank, and noticed I had a lot of room left. So I popped in the second disk to see how many of the songs I could fit. How many do you think it was?
You guessed it, I fit the ENTIRE second CD onto the SAME disk, and that included a 2 second pause in between each song, which I accidentally did. And here I just paid nearly $30 for this thing on *2* disks!!! So, they split up the stuff on two disks, and charged $10 more for a collection of music that would EASILY fit on 1! When I realized this, I swore I would never buy another music CD. Nothing epitomized the greed of the record companies more than this bit of robbery.
If I buy music now, I buy it used at yard sales, pawn shops, etc. Never again will I buy new. Never will I pay money to the record companies, and the first thing I do now with each CD is rip the songs to MP3's and share them.
Now they want to find ways to prevent even this. They introduce copy protection on CD's, and in many instances this prevents the CD from even being PLAYED on your computer. My computer IS my stereo system. If I can't play a CD I have on my computer, somebody has violated my rights. Not to mention the violation of my rights to make a COPY of any tape or CD I purchase. If they introduce copy protection, isn't that a violation of my rights to protect my purchase? I mean, I *NEVER* use my original CD's. I only use copies. If they make it so I can't make copies, aren't they violating my right to protect my originals?
And how about the RIAA's efforts to make us have to have a license when we wish to buy a CD burner or blank disks, and have to go through a background check much like when you wish to buy a firearm in order to buy these things? How about their attempts to make the manufacturer's of these things pay them a fee for every item sold, as compensation for "lost revenue"? What if I'm not buying these things for music use? Why should I have to pay an increased price that has been increased to cover the fees to the RIAA? That's like making one of my competitors pay me a fee every time one of my customers does business with them. I did nothing to EARN that money, like the RIAA does nothing to deserve a fee from manufacturers of blank CD's and burners and labels and software.
OK, I'm done ranting for now...
End Quote
1. NEVER IN HELL WOULD I LET SOMEONE CHECK MY BACKROUND AS IF I WAS A CRIMINAL. This is the sh*+ that pisses me off. I mean I do have a history of mental health problems. ;) but I mean, um, um, ...
2. Okay I know exactly what you mean when you say that you can fit 2 cd's on 1, 86 min. tape. I am a musical fanatic I've seen so many on broadway and been in so many its crazy. Just this past february I was in new yourk to see the phanrom of the opera. The Cd's cost $50. I said HEEEEELL NO! And borrowed my friends. Well dont you know It was a nice fit, tight but it fit. Jeckyll and hide fit with 10 extra minutes. I think next I'll burn les miserables...
3. God I love this! Our school wanted us to right to companies about they're sweatshops and today i received this shi++y response from The Gap about how they created a code that used the words "shall" and "must" instead of may or should because they wanted their code tomean something this infuriated me to the point of almost throwing it away. Thank god I have a teacher who knows what its like to be a hippie. I told her that if Id have been around during her era I probably would have joined her, but not done drugs. She laughed and said everyone did...
4. I have no Idea why I'm numbering. Cd prices are going up because people are useing burners. I am guilty of this and I dont care. They make enough money. I mean a $10,000,000 bonus should be enough right. now i truly believe my friend when she said "this world=sh*t"
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
I just think there will always be a way to circumvent all this. Piracy is illegal now - whether for profit or nonprofit (as in large showcasings without the written consent of the copyright owners), but one still sees blatant law-breaking all over the place. It's fine by me, no sweat off my back - I dind't have to work to come up with the art or the music being pirated, so if one chooses to dupe it, noone is going to hear me complaint (just as noone will see me complaint about copyright coding and such). Another shrug in the struggle between man and government rules.
On another subject: I don't know how something like The GAP Co. could be avoided unless one makes their own clothes. Pretty much ALL clothing come from sweatshops - either from foreign lands or domestic. If you bought from a company that didn't have their clothing made in a sweatshop, you'd be paying for a Hugo Boss or Armani suit or, worse, one of those ultra-fascist "vintage" outlets (into the hundreds of dollars for a shirt? No way). Yeah, as if I'd really fight The GAP ::) "Down with...er... affordable clothing! Down with cheap, comfortable, fitting clothing...? Huh?" I know, I know, not the most popular point of view, but consider my lack of interest in this topic as a form of opinion (and also the fact that Hitler wore Khakis - don't need to be reminded of that one).
Tarzan Boy
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
worse, one of those ultra-fascist "vintage" outlets (into the hundreds of dollars for a shirt? No way).
Tarzan Boy
End Quote
How is a vintage clothing outlet Fascist? Please explain:
fas·cist
n.
often Fascist An advocate or adherent of fascism.
A reactionary or dictatorial person.
adj.
often Fascist Of, advocating, or practicing fascism.
Fascist Of or relating to the regime of the Fascisti.
fascism
n.
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Ok,let me go off subject slightly for a moment,what is the REAL use for a crowbar?? apart from breaking into houses and hitting people etc.I've often wondered what it was invented to do in the first place as a tool ??? ???
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
Ok,let me go off subject slightly for a moment,what is the REAL use for a crowbar?? apart from breaking into houses and hitting people etc.I've often wondered what it was invented to do in the first place as a tool ??? ???
End Quote
One of its uses is to "jack-up" a car with an old-timey "car jack". ;D
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
Ok,let me go off subject slightly for a moment,what is the REAL use for a crowbar?? apart from breaking into houses and hitting people etc.I've often wondered what it was invented to do in the first place as a tool ??? ???
End Quote
To pry. It is a prying tool. For instance, the burglar in question could pry the windows off the house. ;)
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
GOing way off subject okay!
What other reasons might the crowbar be used...
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
Ok,let me go off subject slightly for a moment,what is the REAL use for a crowbar?? apart from breaking into houses and hitting people etc.I've often wondered what it was invented to do in the first place as a tool ??? ???
End Quote
I see crowbars used all the time where I work. Their primary use is to pry open wooden crates that have been nailed shut so you can get at the stuff inside. It's a lot faster than having to pry up each individual nail with a claw hammer.
I've also seen them used in classic films, and more modern films about the earlier days. Isn't a crowbar the thing the father used in "A Christmas Story" to open the crate containing the leg-shaped lamp?
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
It's also a very handy tool for tearing down old houses or barns. My brothers and I tore down an old barn for my mom a couple of years ago, and the crowbar definitely made the work easier. That, and the bulldozer. ;D
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
To go further off the subject, why did they name it a crowbar? Was it used to scare crows when the Scarecrow went to Oz? :D
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
The new copy protected CD's mentioned on Yahoo today are prime examples of exactly what I was saying in my rant on page 1. They're going too far. When they are now producing media that you can't even play the ORIGINAL MEDIA on your player of choice, they have crossed a line that I will not only not forgive, but will fight to the bitter end.
Do NOT buy CD's. Download your music. The only way they will ever get the message is to actually hit them where it hurts, which is thier bank accounts. Even with the current levels of file sharing, they aren't really feeling a ding in the bank accounts, because they just raise prices more and more, which, in my case, is why I was downloading music in the first place. Lower the prices and release quality music instead of crap like BS (Pat Benatar?? That just goes to show she has NO clue about what she's doing, she just does what the record company tells her. I mean, come on, if it was one of your favorite songs and you've ALWAYS liked Pat benatar, wouldn't you know she didn't sing it?) or Pink (Sorry, she sounds like there is no way she could sing WITHOUT electronic enhancement) and you might gain my business once again.
It makes me wish I had a Mac, I'd purposely buy one of these CD's, and then sue the company for this crap.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
I see what your saying about the Price of CD's Peeerfect example is Best Buy. in 95 CD's were $12, at there store today most are $14 - $15 (inflation been pretty much stagnate since 95). Fortunately I got to go to the Ukraine last year. CD's sell there for $4 and the shop owners still make a prophet.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
$14 and $15 is still cheap compared to the new CDs at Wherehouse, Karma and the retail department stores.
Quoting:
I see what your saying about the Price of CD's Peeerfect example is Best Buy. in 95 CD's were $12, at there store today most are $14 - $15 (inflation been pretty much stagnate since 95). Fortunately I got to go to the Ukraine last year. CD's sell there for $4 and the shop owners still make a prophet.
End Quote
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
$14 and $15 is still cheap compared to the new CDs at Wherehouse, Karma and the retail department stores.
End Quote
Not cheap enough for me, thats why I don't buy cd's there (or any of the stores you mentioned). Last CD I bought was at circuit city For $10 (had one of thoes "Discovery Price" stickers).
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
I own a CD burner but don't own a crowbar...go figure.
You know, the "Napster" discussion is one that always makes for wars at Catstevens.com People are pretty sensitive about it. But I have always asked, 'Why was it okay for us to copy cassettes and vinyl onto other tapes to share with friends, but downloading a song via Napster, Morpheus, or Grokster taboo." I think that the government will keep shutting these file-sharing programs down but with technology and hackers new replacements will always spring up. I am honest enough to say that I use file sharing especially to test out an artist's music. I hate to buy a CD for one song to discover that the one song is great while the rest of the CD sucks...eg...Robert Palmer's "Simply Irresistable" CD. I paid $18 for it and only a couple of songs were good...(my opinion). I am glad for file sharing because it gives me the chance to enjoy the music when I am strapped for cash. But I am totally against burning CD's of copyrighted material and cashing in on it. Except in cases where some material is not released and is so rare to acquire. For example, there are no legal Cat Stevens concert videos available. I have some bootlegs of those because I didn't get to see him live when he was active. I guess that is probably a double-standard, but I can't see copying all kinds of music off the web and selling it for profit. Then the artist loses money.
I haven't been to a concert in ten years. Are the tickets that expensive? I went to see Fleetwood Mac back in 1990 and it was only $18 a ticket. If tickets are so outrageous I doubt the 'downloader' music collectors are going to hurt the artist very much.
Peace,
A'isha
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
So, in conclusion, it's not illegal to own a crow-bar, but it is illegal to use it to break in to, let's say, an artist's house and steal his work under the guise of some silly inalienable Constitutional right; one would almost think that the work in the entertainment industry is public domain. Jay-zus H. Kuhryst! Since when did it become "bad" to make a living as an artist, producer, accountant, and lawyer in the entertainment industry? Granted, one can boycott CD prices by not buying and choosing to buy used, but when you're a pirate you're just sabotaging someone's right to make a living from their craft. And that crappy argument about it costing less than 5 cents to make a CD. Please. Yeah, and a Picasso is worth a dollar. What kind of rationale is that? It doens't make sense. Boycott, boycott, and boycott, but we should not give in to language-shift and stupid semantics. A pirate is a thief and to the least a sort of annoying vandal that, without the permission of the owners, goes and distributes others' work in the guise of "sharing" and justifies this because he/she deems the entertainers too rich and don't feel like paying for anything - since they can freely loot. Hmph, I guess I did have something to say about this.
Tarzan Boy
End Quote
I was reading your post and I just thought of this. If its Legal to broadcast a song through the air, and Legal to record a song off the radio, should it also be Legal To share a song recorded off the radio over the internet? Its Practically the Same thing, Putting a song out into an area where people can Hear it, just in a little different format. thoughts?
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
That's an interesting point. I'll have to think about that one for a while. But since when does one record off the radio and put it in the 'net? Perhaps it's done, but from what I hear, it's mainly copied off from an original CD, cassette, or LP. The only analogy I could offer would be a free concert where some in the audience decide to record the perfomance and then distribute it. That's illegal, right? There's also the fact that a radio station will only play certain songs (at least here in SoCal, it's done that way) such as the one or two singles off the album (NOT the entire album, b-sides, and other rare work as it is available through the pirates). So if one records off the radio and puts it on the 'net and that becomes the standard, then there'd still be material for the artist and co. to actually be compensated for. I don't know, that just popped into my head, so it has a bunch of circular thinking.
Tarzan Boy
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
TB,
But what right does the RIAA have to add a fee onto my purchases of blank media or recorders? They add this fee on to cover lost revenue from so-called piracy so in a sense aren't we paying for the music we download anyway?
Yeah, when I do buy music I only buy used, and have completely boycotted the industry anyway, but since I'm PAYING additional costs on my blank CD's, which I actually rarely use for music, then I feel somewhat justified in my downloading music.
What scares me is the lobbying of the RIAA, which could be successful, which will ban recorders in the US and force equiopment manufacturers to add technology into PC which will prevent them from copying anything. Can you say the death of the PC industry? Burners are practically the SINGLE largest driving force in PC sales these days. I can definitely see a large drop off in our sales to our customers if those are made illegal. Not to mention the flattening of our rights to copy our own CD's for our own purposes.
And how about the RIAA thinking that webcasters should be paying $.14 per song per listener? And them wanting us to collect personal data about our listeners. This is more, much more than is required of over-the-air radio stations. And when you record from them, you get better quality. So why stick it to the internet broadcaster so bad?
IMO, the RIAA will be the death of music. If you want music, get it from the net. If you want the artist to be compensated, send them a little money directly. They make what, 1 or 2 dollars on each CD? So every 12 songs you download from an artist, send them $2.00 directly. Pay to see them live. DON'T pay for CD's. Don't give the record companies your money. They're getting it from you in so many other ways anyway.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
My vinyl collection goes from 1963-1991 with Lp's and from 1956-1988 with 45's. I have spent years recording these onto tape and just recently picked out my favorite songs from each LP and recorded them alphabetically by song title. It was quite a task and took a long time to complete. I am now saving up for a new computer and burner. I plan to make 2 copies of the collection of favorites and then 2 copies of the entire collection....Lp's & 45's included. I basically stopped buying new music back in '91....with the exception of some of my favorites like, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Weezer and Metalica (Of course now that "Loser Lars" helped with the demise of Napster I have stopped listening to them) and so I will still be able to enjoy what I like even though I think people on internet radio have rights that are basically being taken away. Off topic a little...my satelite company used to offer me up to 5 different cities for ABC, CBS, NBC & FOX...now that number is down to 2. Cable has that STUPID "Blackout" law...that basically says, if I can recieve a local ABC channel here in Colorado Springs...and yet they also carry the Denver ABC...They are required by law to block the Denver Channel. Freedom is being taken from us everyday...so I have learned to just keep trying to "Rock" and watch Video's on VH-1 Classic...that is until they start to ban us from taping them!
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Yep, they won't be satisfied until such time as they can dictate to you exactly what you will watch and listen to, and when you will watch or listen to it. That's how much control they seem to be after.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
But this is how a lot of big business is handled - not just the entertainment industry. I just don't see how, when politicians sell out to the lobbies, it's OK to steal from the artists. This is as much about entertainment as it is about making money. Granted, there are those artists who don't mind their work being copied off the 'net and broadcasted, but what about those who don't? They don't get a say in this? So all that work is for nothing? As for sending $2.00 directly to the artist: who does this? Again, if an artist agrees to this, then it's fine, but, really, how many artists, beside up and comers, have signed up for this new way of pay-for-play? Aerosmith? The Rolling Stones? Depeche Mode? INXS? Def Leppard? Bon Giovi? I'd be very interested to know what they REALLY think of piracy.
Tarzan Boy
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
But you've failed to even address the point regarding the fact that we're already paying an extra charge on our purchases of blank media to the RIAA. So, how does that figure in? Aren't we already paying them for our downloading of music?
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
I find it interesting that you say cd's are too expensive in America.In England they average out at about 15.99 which is about$24.00 a time.Even chart cd's at discount are $15.00 a time.There was an inquiry into why they are so expensive and it concluded that the record companies are ripping the public off and they just went "So?" and the government went "er,ok" and the prices went up even more!
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Then just keep copying. What can I say? I get ripped off by all kinds of business people, but I'm not about to boycott everything - at least, not yet. The RIAA charges that extra fee, I assume, to recover the loss from piracy, but I'm not in the business, so they could just be adding charges like crazy. It still doesn't inspire me to do as the Romans do, especially when indie labels end up getting it straight in the neck.
Tarzan Boy
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Exactly!.Same reason I didn't go and see U2 live this tour I wasn't about to pay a hundred pounds for Ian and me to see them no matter how much I love the band!! Interestingly the band were sued by their management etc when they complained about the extortinate ticket prices.It's laughable really!!
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Instead of the record industry getting angry with those of us who utilize file sharing online, they should get on to Al Gore. He created the Internet. :) ;)
I once read that when Fleetwood Mac had their reunion tour in 1997 the tickets went for $150 a hit. Okay, if I pay that for a ticket or have to I will get the music off the web for free.
Peace,
A'isha
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
I find it interesting that you say cd's are too expensive in America.In England they average out at about 15.99 which is about$24.00 a time.Even chart cd's at discount are $15.00 a time.There was an inquiry into why they are so expensive and it concluded that the record companies are ripping the public off and they just went "So?" and the government went "er,ok" and the prices went up even more!
End Quote
Does This include VAT of 17.5%? If it doesn't then wow you guys in the UK Really have it bad.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
It still doesn't inspire me to do as the Romans do, especially when indie labels end up getting it straight in the neck.
Tarzan Boy
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Well, they are adding that fee, in advance, for lost revenues from copying. People are paying that fee, on every purchase of blank media, whether they use them for music or not. They pay that fee on hardware, as well. That DOES inspire me to do as the Romans do. They're charging me for it, whether I do it or not. Then complain about me doing it. They can't have it both ways.
Indie labels are safe from me, however. I personally don't get into Indie music. And since my musical tastes run almost exclusively to 80's music, chances are slim I'll wound one of them.
On a final note, I actually do support my favorite artists through purchasing tix to concerts ($100 for a pair of tix to Def Leppard back in 2000) and have been known to send a little cash to artists I've DL'ed from.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
I find it interesting that you say cd's are too expensive in America.In England they average out at about 15.99 which is about$24.00 a time.Even chart cd's at discount are $15.00 a time.There was an inquiry into why they are so expensive and it concluded that the record companies are ripping the public off and they just went "So?" and the government went "er,ok" and the prices went up even more!
End Quote
Lars is a jerk >:(
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
In Great Britain, they have some strange laws. People over there who have been making their own environmentally friendly "bio-diesel" made from used deep fryer grease, are being heavily fined, and in some cases, hauled off and arrested. Reason? They are avoiding the taxes paid on regular fuel.
I read of a case where a guy lived near a BBC transmitter who designed a resonant circuit that tapped into the electric field around the transmitter to power up some low voltage garden lights. He boasted about it too much about how he was getting free electricity I guess, because the government came down and tried every kind of legal way possible to make him disconnect it. He won everytime until they found a little known law/regulation that requires all radios be registered. He summarily disconnected it.
Blah! :P
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
In Great Britain, they have some strange laws. People over there who have been making their own environmentally friendly "bio-diesel" made from used deep fryer grease, are being heavily fined, and in some cases, hauled off and arrested. Reason? They are avoiding the taxes paid on regular fuel.
End Quote
This isn't a law designed to hit bio-fuels: when the laws regarding fuel duty were drafted, nobody considered things other than fossil fuels and the definition of "fuel" was wide enough to include pretty much anything that makes a car go. Thereafter it's a question of interpretation... and HM Customs and Excise are serious bastards in that respect: of course they'll go after anybody who looks like they may be "cheating" the treasury of a penny or two, and they have (and wilfully misuse) an incredible amount of power to do so.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
I stopped buying CD's last year. I was furious when I found out about the whole "RIAA vs Kids" thing. Needless to say, alot of the music that's out today is crap. Now a days i just listen to old stuff or compose my own music.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
<snicker> I heard this saying today:
It's only illegal when you get caught. ;)
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
lol I like that saying, Squirrell.
Subject: Re: When Will They Make It Illegal To Own A Crowba
Quoting:
I stopped buying CD's last year. I was furious when I found out about the whole "RIAA vs Kids" thing. Needless to say, alot of the music that's out today is crap. Now a days i just listen to old stuff or compose my own music.
End Quote
You are SO right! Todays Music Ain't Got The Same Soul..I Like That Old Time Rock And Roll Seger-1979 ;)