These are the messages that have been posted on inthe00s over the past few years.
Subject: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 06/08/06 at 11:42 am
I believe that there are ghosts surrounding us. I also believe in other life form of some kind. As far as Bigfoot....I know my two uncles claimed that they saw a creature of that nature sitting in the woods near their house...so, who knows? ???
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Tam on 06/08/06 at 11:51 am
I believe in ghosts.
When I was younger I had what I thought was a dream.
My grandmother (who had already passed away) was in my dream but
she was talking to me about current stuff and when she hugged me
in the dream it felt REAL.
There are also stories from around the city I live in about
ghosts and one was actually on Unsolved Mysteries.
I'll have to look it up and bring the info to you!
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 06/08/06 at 11:53 am
I believe in ghosts.
When I was younger I had what I thought was a dream.
My grandmother (who had already passed away) was in my dream but
she was talking to me about current stuff and when she hugged me
in the dream it felt REAL.
There are also stories from around the city I live in about
ghosts and one was actually on Unsolved Mysteries.
I'll have to look it up and bring the info to you!
that would be great, Tam. This kind of stuff seriously fascinates me to no end! ;)
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: CatwomanofV on 06/08/06 at 12:03 pm
"I do believe in spooks. I do, I do, I do believe in spooks." :D
Yes, I do believe believe in ghosts. I have "seen" one per say but I have felt presences before.
As for Bigfoot or alians (besides the ones with "green cards" :D)-basically seeing is believe and as of yet, I haven't seen any-but I don't dismiss the possibility that they COULD exist.
Cat
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Tam on 06/08/06 at 12:18 pm
I'm not sure if you want this here but this is a story that has always fascinated me:
Lizzie Borden
http://www.unsolved.com/0115-BordenHouse.html
On the hot morning of August 4, 1892, Lizzie Borden murdered her stepmother with an ax, in the Borden's family house at No. 92 Second Street, Fall River, Massachusetts. Abby Borden's body was found between the bed and bureau, in the guest room. Ninety minutes later, she killed her father, Andrew Borden, in the same way. He was found laying with his head on the sofa arm, next to the door, in the downstairs sitting room.
While there is little doubt that Lizzie committed the crime, she was acquitted at trial due to a lack of evidence. Although ostracized by the community, Lizzie lived in the house until she died on June 1, 1927.
After her death, the house remained a private residence for several decades before being converted into a bed and breakfast. Guests are allowed to view the murder scene and can sleep in Lizzie and her sister Emma's bedrooms, Abby & Andrew's Bedrooms or the guest Room where Abby was killed. Martha McGinn, owner and operator, has lived in the house since her teens. She calls the house "active" instead of haunted, and believes that the spirits of the murder victims may inhabit the house.
Cold spots are felt in many of the rooms. People who work in the house say they have heard many strange sounds, including voices, a woman crying and unexplained footsteps. Some have seen indentations - like that of a body lying down - appear and disappear on the beds. Objects are mysteriously moved out of place, lights go on and off, and doors and cabinets have opened on their own.
Guests have reported seeing an "older Victorian woman" dusting and making the beds in the guest room as Abby was doing at the time of her death. Still others have reported being awakened in the night to see this same woman pulling the covers of the bed over them as though she is tucking them in. A couple from Connecticut took a photograph in the sitting room that didn't turn out properly. The photo was almost entirely black except for the apparition of an elderly man who looked very much like Andrew Borden.
http://www.unsolved.com/0115-Borden.jpg
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Gis on 06/08/06 at 12:23 pm
I definatly believe in ghosts, no choice now I've seen one ! I think there is alot more in this world than we know.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Dominic L. on 06/08/06 at 12:23 pm
... Nnuuuupe!
I know, I'm no fun. :-\\
I'm the kinda person who only believes in things with logical explanations... Like why my computer is making a beat out of the clicks that come out of it when it's busy... :o
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: whistledog on 06/08/06 at 12:23 pm
I do believe in ghosts. Years ago, I thought what I saw was one, and to this day, I am still convinced that what I saw was something paranormal
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Bobby on 06/08/06 at 12:27 pm
No, sorry folks, I don't believe either. Too many fake pictures and misinterpretations of events for my liking.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: deadrockstar on 06/08/06 at 12:30 pm
I'm not sure what to believe about it.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Mr Tumnus on 06/08/06 at 12:35 pm
I'm not sure if you want this here but this is a story that has always fascinated me:
Lizzie Borden
http://www.unsolved.com/0115-BordenHouse.html
After her death, the house remained a private residence for several decades before being converted into a bed and breakfast. Guests are allowed to view the murder scene and can sleep in Lizzie and her sister Emma's bedrooms, Abby & Andrew's Bedrooms or the guest Room where Abby was killed. Martha McGinn, owner and operator, has lived in the house since her teens. She calls the house "active" instead of haunted, and believes that the spirits of the murder victims may inhabit the house.
http://www.unsolved.com/0115-Borden.jpg
A very spooky story, thanks for posting a clip. God why would people want to sleep in the bedroom of the actual murder scene?
I do believe there is something of a supernatural force in the world, but haven't as yet seen anything, but have felt/sensed presences near me.
Erin thanks for this thread, I love subjects like this, must follow on from nights as a kid reading ghost books under the bed-covers..mwahahahhhaaaa :o :o
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: MidKnightDarkness on 06/08/06 at 1:05 pm
Of course I believe in ghosts. So many people have experienced the supernatural, they can't all be wrong.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 06/08/06 at 1:09 pm
Of course I believe in ghosts. So many people have experienced the supernatural, they can't all be wrong.
seriously..how can they ALL be hoaxes? ???
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Dominic L. on 06/08/06 at 1:19 pm
seriously..how can they ALL be hoaxes? ???
:/
Some can be lies, and some can just be psychological, like.. you think you saw it because it's what you want to believe...
Then again, they could be real... I guess the only way to find out is to die, any takers?
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Tam on 06/08/06 at 2:20 pm
seriously..how can they ALL be hoaxes? ???
A lot of researches like to believe that there are explanations for everything.
Pictures with orbs in them are simply "dusty lenses"
Lights are from power lines or pockets of electricity,
same as cold spots - supposed cold pockets of air are everwhere.
(Yeah, explain that to me when I am standing in 120F heat in Texas... lead me to the dang cold pockets will ya!!!)
Some are hoaxes but not nearly as many as researchers would like for us to believe!
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: gemini on 06/08/06 at 2:52 pm
Yes, I totally believe in ghosts. I don't really believe in Bigfoot, I think it's just an urban legend of sorts. I believe there are some kind of spirits or presence around, especially after an experience we had here a few nights after we moved in. We had just gotten our dog, and she's a black dog, so of course my daughter said, "a black dog is the sign of the devil", and I just went on, like yea right or something. So later we were all sitting in the living room and the phone was on the coffee table, and it didn't ring, but we just heard 3 beeps like it makes when you push the phone buttons, and when I looked at the I.D. on the handset it had "666" on it. :o That scared the holy sh*t out of us!
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 06/08/06 at 7:13 pm
A lot of researches like to believe that there are explanations for everything.
Pictures with orbs in them are simply "dusty lenses"
Lights are from power lines or pockets of electricity,
same as cold spots - supposed cold pockets of air are everwhere.
(Yeah, explain that to me when I am standing in 120F heat in Texas... lead me to the dang cold pockets will ya!!!)
Some are hoaxes but not nearly as many as researchers would like for us to believe!
seriously!! I mean, how can they explain when someone's appliances or toys all start by themselves...or when they see spirits running up and down the stairs? :o
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Foo Bar on 06/08/06 at 8:05 pm
For anyone answering "I'm not sure", or "maybe", may I humbly suggest:
http://www.csicop.org
And failing that, grab a copy of Carl Sagan's Demon-Haunted World and Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors, in that order.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: deadrockstar on 06/09/06 at 11:32 am
seriously!! I mean, how can they explain when someone's appliances or toys all start by themselves...or when they see spirits running up and down the stairs? :o
I can't say about the second one, but appliances doing that can be attributed to faulty wiring. Same thing with lights going on and off by themselves.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Dominic L. on 06/09/06 at 11:37 am
[quote author=
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: KKay on 06/10/06 at 9:22 am
no, i don't beleve in any of it...but i am afraid of things that i can't explain. these things dont' happen often. if i expereince something eerie, my mind goes automatically to the logical explanation and my fear is quelled.
i really do enjoy the subject though. I watch all the shows about ufos and ghosts and all; it's fun but i don't beleve it at all.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/10/06 at 1:19 pm
:/
Some can be lies, and some can just be psychological, like.. you think you saw it because it's what you want to believe...
Then again, they could be real... I guess the only way to find out is to die, any takers?
ironic,r eally, sicne none of us have a choice. Do you really think that when we die we will be given all the answers? This is what ost people believe, but I am not so sure. How do we know what the afterlife holds? Nobody has ever spent enough time there to tell us, and the few who claim to have been there all give different accounts. The fact is, we know absolutely nothing about life or death.
Oh, and yes, I do believe in the paranormal, UFOs, alien abductions, cryptozoology (bigfoot, chupacabra, mothman, etc.), and the like.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Dominic L. on 06/11/06 at 12:00 am
ironic,r eally, sicne none of us have a choice. Do you really think that when we die we will be given all the answers? This is what ost people believe, but I am not so sure. How do we know what the afterlife holds? Nobody has ever spent enough time there to tell us, and the few who claim to have been there all give different accounts. The fact is, we know absolutely nothing about life or death.
Oh, and yes, I do believe in the paranormal, UFOs, alien abductions, cryptozoology (bigfoot, chupacabra, mothman, etc.), and the like.
Well, if we die and just... die without anything happening, then we won't be alive to know the answers!
No way finding out, I guess.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Red Ant on 06/11/06 at 1:52 am
I'd say no, but I also can't explain everything either.
Several years ago, I went to see the Cohoke Lights in Va. We saw it alright, and it scared me quite a bit. We went back the next day in the light and the train tracks on which it appears are partially disassembled, there were no guy wires over the tracks (the light appeared stationary at first, then moved toward us), and there are no light towers nearby or on a correct angle to produce the effect we saw.
If it is a practical joke, someone needs to go to Hollywood rather than scare off locals at 2am. BTW, the light appeared within 5 minutes of our arrival.
I've heard stories that if you stand on the tracks the light will pass right through you, but we moved about 50 yards away and never saw it pass.
Of course, it could be the cops with a searchlight playing tricks on people rather than arresting them since it is a Class 3 misdemeanor to loiter within 200 yards of the crossing.
Here's an article:
http://www.astronomycafe.net/weird/lights/cohoke.htm
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: lorac61469 on 06/12/06 at 9:04 pm
My reply was I believe in all of it, however what I really mean is I believe that these things are possible.
I have never seen a ghost but I believe in them.
I think it's possible that Bigfoot is real, I have no clue as to what it is. New species are being found around the world as well as species that have been thought to be extinct. Here's a story about a shrimp that was thought to have become extinct about...Oh, 60 million years ago.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12875772/
If this shrimp was found alive why can't there be other species that we don't know about?
I believe that there could be life on other planets, maybe not in our Solar System but somewhere.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Apricot on 06/14/06 at 10:54 am
We all operate off of energy, what people argue to be the "soul"... since Energy can not be created or destroyed, it's logical that it goes somewhere instead of just sitting in the ground with the body. Now, that doesn't always mean it's gonna turn into spectral energy and become a ghost, but in some cases it may form into that image. I believe I have seen the ghost of my great-grandmother, very close, in her house about a year after her death.
I think Aliens logically also have to exist, this is a giant universe, there's no way we could possibly be the only thread of life. I don't believe in the conventional sense of probes and death rays and spaceships, but there are at the very least bacteria on other planets that will eventually evolve or something.
Bigfoot, I'm not so sure on. I think by now, if it were for real, the government would have found the damn thing and studied it.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/14/06 at 6:20 pm
You know... The whole paranormal debate is plagued by people who, instead of looking at things and coming to the logical conclusions (or, more importantly, the lack thereof), attempt to either explain away these happenings, or explain how they feel on the matter.
How can any well-informed individual not believe in UFOs, or alien abductions, or ghosts? There have been hundreds of thousands, and in some cases millions of sightings of all of them... Do you really think that 1 million people are all crazy, lying, or both?
We can create whatever fantasys we want to explain ghosts and UFOs... But in the end, we really don't have a damn idea what is going on.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Foo Bar on 06/14/06 at 10:37 pm
How can any well-informed individual not believe in UFOs, or alien abductions, or ghosts? There have been hundreds of thousands, and in some cases millions of sightings of all of them... Do you really think that 1 million people are all crazy, lying, or both?
Not at all. But what's wrong with "factually incorrect"?
UFOs: Unidentified flying objects certainly exist. If you don't know what it is, it's a UFO.
But that doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft. Let's dispense with the fakes, the clouds, and the weather balloons; those are the easy cases. What about the hard cases? The F-117 stealth fighter flew for 5-10 years before it was revealed to the public. More than one of the aircraft crashed. You can bet that a lot of people camping out in certain deserts would have sworn up and down they saw a small black triangular UFO doing things that "airplanes" couldn't possibly do, I mean, fer cryin' out loud, the thing they saw didn't even have wings like an airplane oughta have.
They weren't crazy. They weren't lying. They were, however, factually incorrect.
You want an interesting world? Try the scientific method. There are worlds the size of the earth, that weigh a good fraction of the mass of the sun, and are paved with diamond. There are also atomic nuclei that weigh as much as stars, and are ten miles across. We call them "neutron stars". Then things get weird. There's a place near the center of our galaxy that weighs as much as a million suns, but takes up about as much space as our solar system. (or takes up no space at all, depending on which definition of 'space' you want to use). Stars orbit this place like fireflies, gravitationally slingshotting each other everywhere. Some get thrown out of the galaxy. Some get sucked in and are torn apart. There's one star that will be traveling at a measurable fraction of the speed of light at its closest approach. Every few decades, any observer near the star (who wasn't already fried to a crisp by the radiation in the neighborhood) would get to see the sky around the black hole visibly warp and shift over a period of days and weeks.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and "Data" means more than "the plural of 'anecdote'". Statements like the ones I've just made would have been pure speculation for most of the past century. The last claim I made, about the period of the orbit of one of the stars orbiting the galactic central black hole, was impossible to make until less than 5 years ago, when we could say that we knew (as opposed to merely suspected), that the only thing small enough and gravitationally powerful enough to account for everything we'd observed was, indeed, a black hole.
I was going to say "sorry about killing your buzz" -- but I'm not trying to kill anyone's buzz. The point of science is to admit that we don't know everything: but it's a pretty neat tool for adding to our pool of knowledge, and the universe we've been able to understand so far is a really fascinating place.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/17/06 at 9:46 am
Not at all. But what's wrong with "factually incorrect"?
UFOs: Unidentified flying objects certainly exist. If you don't know what it is, it's a UFO.
But that doesn't mean it's an alien spacecraft. Let's dispense with the fakes, the clouds, and the weather balloons; those are the easy cases. What about the hard cases? The F-117 stealth fighter flew for 5-10 years before it was revealed to the public. More than one of the aircraft crashed. You can bet that a lot of people camping out in certain deserts would have sworn up and down they saw a small black triangular UFO doing things that "airplanes" couldn't possibly do, I mean, fer cryin' out loud, the thing they saw didn't even have wings like an airplane oughta have.
They weren't crazy. They weren't lying. They were, however, factually incorrect.
You want an interesting world? Try the scientific method. There are worlds the size of the earth, that weigh a good fraction of the mass of the sun, and are paved with diamond. There are also atomic nuclei that weigh as much as stars, and are ten miles across. We call them "neutron stars". Then things get weird. There's a place near the center of our galaxy that weighs as much as a million suns, but takes up about as much space as our solar system. (or takes up no space at all, depending on which definition of 'space' you want to use). Stars orbit this place like fireflies, gravitationally slingshotting each other everywhere. Some get thrown out of the galaxy. Some get sucked in and are torn apart. There's one star that will be traveling at a measurable fraction of the speed of light at its closest approach. Every few decades, any observer near the star (who wasn't already fried to a crisp by the radiation in the neighborhood) would get to see the sky around the black hole visibly warp and shift over a period of days and weeks.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and "Data" means more than "the plural of 'anecdote'". Statements like the ones I've just made would have been pure speculation for most of the past century. The last claim I made, about the period of the orbit of one of the stars orbiting the galactic central black hole, was impossible to make until less than 5 years ago, when we could say that we knew (as opposed to merely suspected), that the only thing small enough and gravitationally powerful enough to account for everything we'd observed was, indeed, a black hole.
I was going to say "sorry about killing your buzz" -- but I'm not trying to kill anyone's buzz. The point of science is to admit that we don't know everything: but it's a pretty neat tool for adding to our pool of knowledge, and the universe we've been able to understand so far is a really fascinating place.
Well, there is absolutely nothing wrong with many or even the majority of UFO cases being "factually incorrect". I will be the first (second, okay) to acknowledge that. However, let's look at actual UFO reports, shall we? In most cases, a shink metallic object is seen hovering in the sky, and then shooting off at tremendous speeds. On radar, objects have been seen to travel at tens of thousands of miles an hour, and then reverse direction instantaneously. Does this sound like a weather balloon? A top-secret military aircraft? Because the simple fact of the matter is that no known material can withstand that kind of sudden reversal of momentum. No known energy source can fit within the usual 33-foot UFO shape and create enough energy to move the thing at tens of thousands of miles per hour, let alone reverse it on a dime. Gravity, as far as we know, cannot be circumvented. We can blame these acounts, witnessed both by observers and recorded by radar towers all over the world, as top-secret military craft, but the facts of actual sightings do not confirm this theory.
And what of alien abductions? In nearly all cases, those "abducted" have exactly the same story to tell... The blue beam of light that paralyses and transports them, small 4-foot creatures (that always look the same) by them, a bright white room with glowing walls, a table, strange experiments, and a small object being inserted into their nose, and never removed. Some have tried to blame the shocking similarity of these reports on "archetypical images" triggered during "sleep paralysis". However, there have been no proven casesof sleep apralysis. And Jung's archetypical images have never been confirmed, either.
Unfortunately, the scientific method cannot be applied to the paranormal in the same way that it can be applied to, say, chemistry. The paranormal is not based upon cause-effect situations in which somethign can be repeated over and over again, can be observed, and can be made to work in the lab. In a way, the paranormal acts more like quantum physics, in which things do not have defnite properties... Instead they have probibilities. An electron may be over here, or it may be over there... We can't tell... We can only see the probibility that it will be in either place. For all intents and purposes, it is in both places at once. It's merely more likely to be in one place than the other.
Okay, I am ranting. And that is generally not a good thing. But my point, I guess, is that those who seek to disprove the paranromal by any and all emans possible need to grow up and look at things as they are, now how they want or think they should be...
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Foo Bar on 06/18/06 at 4:43 pm
On radar, objects have been seen to travel at tens of thousands of miles an hour, and then reverse direction instantaneously. Does this sound like a weather balloon? A top-secret military aircraft?
Sounds exactly like what I'd expect top-secret military aircraft to do.
Suppose you're a radar operator. You fire a bunch of radio waves into the air. You look at what comes back. You use "what comes back" to determine direction and speed.
Suppose you're a designer of a top-secret military aircraft. You have antennae that can detect his radar (unclassified - basically everything from the Vietnam war to today). You know what the radar operator's going to do with whatever data he gets back, and your aircraft is designed to reflect as little of it as possible (unclassified - basically everything from the SR-71 to the F-117, B-2, and F-22). You therefore send him exactly what you want him to hear (I don't have a need to know, but it sure wouldn't surprise me given even the technology of the 80s), and if you want him to think that you pulled a U-turn at mach 3, you figure out what signal to send back to him, and that's exactly what he'll see.
However, there have been no proven casesof sleep apralysis. And Jung's archetypical images have never been confirmed, either.
Heh, of course not! Everyone who experienced it (I have, too) and didn't immediately jump to the "Aliens!" conclusion probably figured "Meh, sleep paralysis", or "whoa, freaky dream", and went back to sleep, or woke up.
http://www.csicop.org/si/2006-02/abducted.html
But why do you demand "proof" if you're not interested in the scientific method?
Unfortunately, the scientific method cannot be applied to the paranormal in the same way that it can be applied to, say, chemistry. The paranormal is not based upon cause-effect situations in which somethign can be repeated over and over again, can be observed, and can be made to work in the lab. In a way, the paranormal acts more like quantum physics, in which things do not have defnite properties... Instead they have probibilities. An electron may be over here, or it may be over there... We can't tell... We can only see the probibility that it will be in either place. For all intents and purposes, it is in both places at once. It's merely more likely to be in one place than the other.
This is the only thing I'm going to seriously object to: Why aren't you willing to apply the scientific method to your own beliefs? A lot of the things quantum physics predicts are not merely counterintutive, they're downright weird.
But the reason we believe in quantum physics, however, isn't despite the scientific method, it's because of the scientific method. You really can set up an experiment - a real, nuts-and-bolts-and-lasers-and-diffraction-gratings-and-photocells experiment - and observe the predicted effects of quantum theory in a lab.
(And any quantum physicist worth his salt would tell you that he has no way of determining which of many competing interpretations of quantum theory is indeed the "right" one. Most of us have adopted "shaddap and calculate!" as the way of producing new toys, but we're all painfully aware that there are some big unanswered - and possibly unanswerable - questions there.)
Okay, I am ranting. And that is generally not a good thing. But my point, I guess, is that those who seek to disprove the paranromal by any and all emans possible need to grow up and look at things as they are, now how they want or think they should be...
BTW, you're not ranting. You're making a pretty reasoned argument. Fundamentally, the only thing on which we disagree is whether or not the scientific method is applicable everywhere and everytime. I argue that it is. You argue that it isn't. To me, that seems like a cop-out. Why should the burden of proof be lower for some claims than it is for others? If the things exist, one ought to be able to prove it by the same means by which we prove the roundness of the earth, meteors (heh, science had that one wrong for 200-300 years, always ignoring those silly peasants talking about rocks falling from the sky and what-not!), and the time dilation effect predicted by general relativity.
As for "how people want or think" things should be, I'd personally love to live in a universe in which aliens were visiting us: It would mean either that someone had figured out how to get around the speed-of-light barrier, or that someone had figured out how to live for millions of years. A lot of physicsts (and biologists) would be delighted to be proven dead wrong on either count.
For the record, I'd bet very good money that life exists elsewhere in the universe. I'd bet good money that it exists elsewhere in the galaxy. As we've learned about other planetary systems, we've learned that the conditions required for life on Earth are pretty common. Intelligent life, capable of radio communications or better, wouldn't surprise me a whit. And I'd love to be proven dead wrong on intelligent life having dropped by to say "hello" every few thousand years.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/19/06 at 3:09 pm
Sounds exactly like what I'd expect top-secret military aircraft to do.
Oh yes? Just because something is top-secret" and "military" DOES NOT mean that it can defy the laws of physics.
Suppose you're a radar operator. You fire a bunch of radio waves into the air. You look at what comes back. You use "what comes back" to determine direction and speed.
Correct. Radar uses the Doppler effect to determine the range, direction, speed, and size of an object. The Doppler effect is present when radio waves strike a moving object and are sheared slightly as they are reflected.
Suppose you're a designer of a top-secret military aircraft. You have antennae that can detect his radar (unclassified - basically everything from the Vietnam war to today). You know what the radar operator's going to do with whatever data he gets back, and your aircraft is designed to reflect as little of it as possible (unclassified - basically everything from the SR-71 to the F-117, B-2, and F-22). You therefore send him exactly what you want him to hear (I don't have a need to know, but it sure wouldn't surprise me given even the technology of the 80s), and if you want him to think that you pulled a U-turn at mach 3, you figure out what signal to send back to him, and that's exactly what he'll see.
That sounds good in theory... But you need to consider what would be necessary to collect every single radio wave that strikes an object, process it, and then send out a new version of the wave as you want it to appear back to the correct location on the ground. radar's operation is not based on WHAT is sent, but on HOW it is sent. If an object has moved 2 miles in one second, how is it going to "trick" a radar station into believing that it has covered 30 miles in that second? It's not possible. Your oversimplification of radar technology disappoints me greatly.
Heh, of course not! Everyone who experienced it (I have, too) and didn't immediately jump to the "Aliens!" conclusion probably figured "Meh, sleep paralysis", or "whoa, freaky dream", and went back to sleep, or woke up.
Well, when people, under hypnosis, give accounts of alien abductions, we can only come to one of two conclusions: 1) The event that they describe to the hypnotist has really happened, or 2) The event that they describe has NOT happened, but they HONESTLY BELIEVE it to have happened. It is impossible to knowingly lie under hypnosis, because lying requires contious thought, something those under hypnosis have very little of. Hypnotic regression allows a patient to re-experience something that they believe to have experienced. Critics claim that hypnotists subliminally, and unknowingly, influence the responses given by patients. But if this is that case, why do the patients of Bud Hopkins, who believes in aliens being "evil", not agree with Bud in their accounts by telling of "evil aliens"? And why do those hypnotists who believe in "good" aliens not have a higher percentage of patients who give accounts of aliens as benevolent? Hmmm? The facts are, both cases are split exactly 50-50. How would you explain this, unless the hypnotist has very little effect on the results of the regression?
Also, what of the many, many cases in which patients eventually remember the event entirely WITHOUT hypnosis?
http://www.csicop.org/si/2006-02/abducted.html
But why do you demand "proof" if you're not interested in the scientific method?
I find it interesting to note that the book does not address the subject of people that have had dreams of aliens inserting something in their nose... Then have awoken with a headache and/or nosebleed... Is this merely a mind-over-mater thing? The mind believes itself to be seeing something, so the body produces blood and a migraine? If you look at the people who have gone to a doctor, and have found literal holes in their cartilage. Did they drill those holes themselves when they were dreaming? I don't know about you, but I usually keep my Dremel far from my bed at night.
This is the only thing I'm going to seriously object to: Why aren't you willing to apply the scientific method to your own beliefs? A lot of the things quantum physics predicts are not merely counterintutive, they're downright weird.
Why, because you do not feel qualified to seriously object to anything else I have said? And why not? You seem to be dead-set against my beliefs... Why not try to convince me that you are right?
Does something being "wierd" make it incorrect? Have you ever heard of something called "gravity"? We have no way of explaining it... We aren't even CLOSE to understanding why it works. And yet everyone believes in it. Why do YOU believe in it, since it is clearly more "wierd" than much of quantum physics?
Do you even know what quantum physics IS? (apparently you DO, from the below... nvm)
But the reason we believe in quantum physics, however, isn't despite the scientific method, it's because of the scientific method. You really can set up an experiment - a real, nuts-and-bolts-and-lasers-and-diffraction-gratings-and-photocells experiment - and observe the predicted effects of quantum theory in a lab.
(And any quantum physicist worth his salt would tell you that he has no way of determining which of many competing interpretations of quantum theory is indeed the "right" one. Most of us have adopted "shaddap and calculate!" as the way of producing new toys, but we're all painfully aware that there are some big unanswered - and possibly unanswerable - questions there.)
Well, I thoroughly agree with this part. Quantum physics is all in practice... the theory has yet to be uncovered. Much like the days before Newton, we know that some things work a certain way, and we can do experiments to demonstrate them, but a modern-day Newton has yet to come along and give us the underlying math to explain it to us... And allow us to use it to our advantage... (Or destruction.. Just look at the atomic bomb...)
BTW, you're not ranting. You're making a pretty reasoned argument. Fundamentally, the only thing on which we disagree is whether or not the scientific method is applicable everywhere and everytime. I argue that it is. You argue that it isn't. To me, that seems like a cop-out. Why should the burden of proof be lower for some claims than it is for others? If the things exist, one ought to be able to prove it by the same means by which we prove the roundness of the earth, meteors (heh, science had that one wrong for 200-300 years, always ignoring those silly peasants talking about rocks falling from the sky and what-not!), and the time dilation effect predicted by general relativity.
Did I say that the scientific method cannot be used in some cases? I think that that those words were put in my mouth, so to speak, by you. The question is not "does JohnDenver believe that is can or can't be used in all cases", the question is "can it be used in all cases". The problem with those who use the scientific method is that they tend to think that anything that cannot be proven, tested, and verified cannot be happening. Sleep paralysis as an alternative to true paranormal experiences is no more proveable than the claim that alien abductions are happening. But yet some will believe this because they do not want to believe that anything in the universe could be more in control of their lives than they are themselves. They are afraid to face the unknown.
As for "how people want or think" things should be, I'd personally love to live in a universe in which aliens were visiting us: It would mean either that someone had figured out how to get around the speed-of-light barrier, or that someone had figured out how to live for millions of years. A lot of physicsts (and biologists) would be delighted to be proven dead wrong on either count.
Well, we are limited mortals, who stupidly assume that our physical world is all that there is. Who is to say that UFOs are not inter-dimensional in nature, which is why we never see them in space... Only on Earth?
And, judging by the reported nature of NEARLY ALL supposed alien abductions, we can assume that if ANY of these accounts are true, the aliens DO NOT WANT to communicate to them. With such advanced technology (or metaphysics, or whatever it is), they would be ALLOWING us to see them on the occasions that we do. People will go out of their way to explain away the unknown. Ignorance is bliss, and they have foolishly chosen happiness over enlightenment.
For the record, I'd bet very good money that life exists elsewhere in the universe. I'd bet good money that it exists elsewhere in the galaxy. As we've learned about other planetary systems, we've learned that the conditions required for life on Earth are pretty common. Intelligent life, capable of radio communications or better, wouldn't surprise me a whit. And I'd love to be proven dead wrong on intelligent life having dropped by to say "hello" every few thousand years.
Well, I agree. However, I am of the opinion that UFOs, alien abductions, ghosts, cryptozoology, "ball lightning" (a horrific misnomer),.. the paranormal in general is all inter-related in some way. But I'm not going to attempt to explain it until I have some evidence as to what is going on. As of now, I have none, and do not believe anyone who claims to have it (unless I see it... But how can I trust my senses?). However, just as bad are those who blindly accept ANY "debunking" of these phenomenon...
The truth is, the scientific method fails miserably at describing or testing the paranormal. The scientific method would tell us that any paranormal happenings were not possible, and were not happening, since we can't conjure them up in the lab. Aliens and ghosts and the mothman all defy physics, walking through walls and defying gravity. That simply can't happen in our world, according to science. And yet it is happening. At least, millions of witnesses around the world, many of whom have no way of communicating, and all tell the same stories of the same phenomena would have us believe so. Are you going to disregard every alien abduction, every UFO sighting, radar record, medical anomaly, mothman sighting, and ball lightning sighting because it is "impossible" and defies science?
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Sister Morphine on 06/19/06 at 6:57 pm
Nope.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Foo Bar on 06/19/06 at 11:15 pm
Did I say that the scientific method cannot be used in some cases? I think that that those words were put in my mouth, so to speak, by you. The question is not "does JohnDenver believe that is can or can't be used in all cases", the question is "can it be used in all cases". The problem with those who use the scientific method is that they tend to think that anything that cannot be proven, tested, and verified cannot be happening.
The scientific method rests on the assumption that "that which cannot be proven, tested, and verified, cannot be assumed to be happening". The words "assumed to be" are key. I read them into your statement (quite possibly mistakenly) -- but it appears that you've read them out of mine (in which case, equally mistakenly). If you can accept the statement I made above, we're basically on the same side.
If you can buy that statement with the added assumption "and is the best method we have of determining between statements that are true, false, and unknown", we are on the same side: You happen to accept some evidence which I reject. And I'm unconvinced by your explanations of that evidence because they don't make predictions that anybody can test.
But those are differences of opinion, not differences in worldview. Differences of opinion can be settled rationally, even if it takes a few decades. (Much like the Victorian scientists who didn't believe in farmers' reports of meteorites landing in their fields, because "rocks don't fall from the sky", but also like Einstein, who never accepted quantum theory, even in the face of the evidence against him.)
Well, we are limited mortals, who stupidly assume that our physical world is all that there is. Who is to say that UFOs are not inter-dimensional in nature, which is why we never see them in space... Only on Earth?
Ah, but (to a scientist), that way lies madness -- rejecting physics entirely (as opposed to merely positing that one type of physics is more in accordance with observation than another type of physics) is a "worldview" kind of difference. On that, we can only "agree to disagree", for who is to say with any less authority that we don't exist only at the whim of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who has touched scientist and nonscientist alike with His Noodly Appendage?
The burden of proof applies to the one making the claim -- but lots of people have claimed to have experienced His Noodly Appendage, and who are we to judge? :)
(And the people said "RAmen!")
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Trimac20 on 06/20/06 at 4:04 am
I'm not a total skeptic, but am usually quite skeptical. It depends on what area of the 'paranormal' you're talking about. Like I think there's a good chance many mysterious beasts like Nessie or the Yeti exist, but I take most spiritualist activity as a hoax.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Johnny_D on 06/20/06 at 2:25 pm
If the universe is holographic in nature, all information is simultaneously present at every point in spacetime. If that's true, then there's nothing supernatural or paranormal about the phenomena we call clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, or ESP --- they're all simply a matter of learning how to become aware of information that's already present, on a very subtle level, at every point in space and time. If someone really desires to acquire such abilities, there are many simple methods for doing so. But if you desire and acquire such abilities, they open you up to lots of opportunities for inflating your ego and playing power games with other people, both of which can make life unpleasantly complicated.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/20/06 at 3:41 pm
Well, then, Foo Bar, I suppose that we are on the same side of this argument.
Shocking...
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Dominic L. on 06/20/06 at 7:31 pm
If the universe is holographic in nature, all information is simultaneously present at every point in spacetime. If that's true, then there's nothing supernatural or paranormal about the phenomena we call clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, or ESP --- they're all simply a matter of learning how to become aware of information that's already present, on a very subtle level, at every point in space and time. If someone really desires to acquire such abilities, there are many simple methods for doing so. But if you desire and acquire such abilities, they open you up to lots of opportunities for inflating your ego and playing power games with other people, both of which can make life unpleasantly complicated.
So is that a yes, or a no?
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Johnny_D on 06/20/06 at 9:20 pm
So is that a yes, or a no?
I've experienced clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, and E.S.P. many times --- they are commonplace aspects of being alive as a human being --- and I consider them to be perfectly natural and normal attributes of life, not paranormal or supernatural. "Paranormal" and "Supernatural" are merely labels for things that some people haven't yet accepted as being normal and natural attributes of life.
If such abilities arise spontaneously and naturally during the course of a human being's spiritual evolution, they can be accepted as gifts and are not dangerous if used only in harmony with selfless divine love. If such abilities arise as a result of forceful attempts to manifest them for purposes of increasing one's power to manipulate other people, they can cause problems.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Foo Bar on 06/20/06 at 11:08 pm
Well, then, Foo Bar, I suppose that we are on the same side of this argument.
Shocking...
Not really shocking. Just a case of having to peel away the unstated assumptions. It's hard to get past these assumptions.
A story from my own life: Firewalking.
I was at a work-related conference and we were talking about silly teambuilding exercises various managers had subjected their employees too. One person had done firewalking. We were all in technical professions, just not all in the software industry. The dialog went something like this:
Firewalker: ...and we all walked across the fire!
FooBar: Whoa, cool! So anyone can do it? How does it work?
Firewalker: Well, we all had to spend a few hours raising our consciousness...
FooBar: Yeah yeah, but how did it work?
FireWalker: Well, there are these energies, you see...
OtherDude: Naw, not the guy's schtick, he means How. As in How. Does. It. Work?
FooBar: Yeah, what he said! I always wanted to know how that worked.
FireWalker: Huh? I told you how. What do you mean "how"?
It took a few rounds for us to explain precisely to each other what we meant by the question "Hmm, you're not special, so how does it work?" versus "It works! I'm not special, but the guy who led us was totally cool!".
The hardest part of the conversation was for the mystic and scientist alike to understand what constituted an acceptable answer to that question. It was an amiable discussion, and (much like our exchange) it was revealing to both sides. We both ended up having to go back and restate things a lot of times, because we each had a lot of assumptions that we just took for granted. (e.g. the universal applicability of the scientific method, versus the "look, I was there, I walked across the coals!!" declarations. It took at least three rounds before we'd agreed that none of were disputint the fact that she'd walked across the coals, we were just curious as to how her feet weren't burnt!)
We ended up googling for it, and came up with an explanation (on the CSICOP site, no less!) that made sense (conventional physics) without implying fraud anywhere.
Consider that the first guy who tried firewalking was probably a shaman. Under the influence of herbs, or just really intensive meditation, he discovered something pretty cool, even if completely by accident. The shaman made the completely reasonable (albeit incorrect) hypothesis that the meditative preparation (or the herbs :) were essential to successfully perform the firewalk. He also made the completely rational (by any standard!) decision that he wasn't gonna try to test the hypothesis by walking across coals unprepared!
Our imaginary shaman really believed that there was something magical going on, and he was pretty smart (by any reasonable standard) for not testing his hypothesis. Over time, generations of people learned that (with preparation, because "hey, man, it'd be crazy to try it without preparation! These are your feet we're talking about!") the tribal shaman had the magical power to firewalk, and that some shamans could even teach it (as long as the preparation was done properly and the right energies raised!) to other members of the tribe.
The funny bit -- and why I'm all for scientific investigation of claims of the paranormal -- is that firewalking has probably been around for millennia, but it's only been in the last couple of decades that a scientist had the testicular fortitude to go from "Y'know, if firewalking is so bulletproof that middle managers can do it at corporate retreats, there's gotta be an explanation for it that doesn't involve anything beyond plain old physics!", to the required step: actually performing the experiment. "...and I'm gonna prove there's no metaphysical explanation for firewalking by taking a close look at how the coals are prepared, and then I'm gonna walk across 'em with a bunch of other folks, except I'm gonna skip the schtick, and then I'm gonna look at my feet, and as many other feet as I can, and I'll bet my own feet that both the "energy-raised" and "skeptic" end up walking away tonight!", and walked across the coals to see what would happen.
To the mystics: They laughed at Columbus. They laughed at Galileo. But they also laughed at Bozo the clown.
To the skeptics: Only when the turtle sticks his neck out, does he move forward.
My only regret is that my current employer isn't dumb enough to send us on silly teambuilding exercises. Most of 'em are bunk, but I'd love to skip out on the metaphysical teambuilding part and just walk across fire and annoy the guy running the seminar, who, unlike the shamen of old, knows he's running a scam :-)
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Donnie Darko on 06/21/06 at 2:56 pm
I think it makes sense to believe in the paranormal. I'm very interested in aliens.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: barefootrobin on 06/21/06 at 3:06 pm
I think it makes sense to believe in the paranormal. I'm very interested in aliens.
Have you read "chariots of the gods"? Although much of the info in the book has been disputed it really makes sense, more sense than some of the stories in the bible.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Johnny_D on 06/21/06 at 3:17 pm
I believe in the Parrotnormal ...
http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/bird-pictures-breeders-chicks/african-grey-parrot-pictures-breeders-chicks/pictures/african-grey-parrot-0015.jpg
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/21/06 at 3:19 pm
Well, this is a difference of worldview. You assume that nothing can exist that cannot be observed. However, we must ask ourselves what we know about our reality. What is relaity? What the hell is it? Certainly, most will define it as what we can detect and measure in one way or another... Ensuring us of it's "existence". But after thoroughly researching the sheer numbers that have *impossibly* (to science) had paranormal experiences, I am forced to conclude, logically, that there is more to "real"-ity than what we are able to detect. Take, for example, a case in which two people (friends) were in a car, traveling on a quiet desert road, when they both loked at the closk, and realized that three hours had passed in what had seemd like 5 minutes. They did not speak for the rest of the trip, so shocked were they. One was dropped off later, and the other went home. They both began to have strange dreams, before which no phone calls were made between them. They finally talked, and decided to see a psychologist (or whatever) who did something strange: He thought that hypnotic regression might shed more light on what hapened during that "missing" time. Enter Bud Hopkins. Bud saw a unique opportunity to *prove* that something was going on, and he had them in for sepatare sessions. Both gave an account nearly exactly the same, as following:
A metallic object lands nearby. They stop the car, and walk over to investigate. They both black out, and both awake (they see eachother) in a white room with glowing walls and small 4-foot humanoid figures hovering over them (not literally hovering, but you get the idea). They had tear-shaped black eyes (very large) no ears, no hair, smooth grey skin, pencil-thin arms, oversized hands and head, a slit for a mouth (that did not move at all when they spoke), and tiny nostrils. They looked something like thie:
http://galactic.to/azb9152a/grey_1.jpg
Both gave perfectly matching descriptions of what was done to both themselves and the other by the greys... Both remember everything that the greys told them (warning of nuclear holucaust, as is usual in these cases... Stupid grays!)
And both described the same event, under hypnosis (meaning they believed every bit of what they described to be happening)...
And then they remembered the aliens telling them "You will remember nothing of this", and then they suddenly found themselves traveling at about 60MPH down the road. No gas was used, but they were a bit down the roadfrom where they remembered. Hmmm... Was this sleep paralysis, too? Let me tell you, it would have to be a clever fraud indeed if they managed to screw up their own memories of the event enough to fool a trained hypnotist...
Anyway, you get my point. Cases such as these certainly seem to be happening... And the only conclusion that I can, logically, come to is that some alien abduction cases - if not most alien abduction cases - are true. Why the simple thought that this could concievably be happening exactly as it has been described is so hard for some to accept is beyond my ability to understand.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Foo Bar on 06/21/06 at 10:47 pm
What is relaity? What the hell is it?
In the words of Philip K. Dick, reality is that which refuses to go away even when we stop believing in it.
(UFO story snipped) hypnotic regression (more snip) Both gave an account nearly exactly the same (more snip) warning of nuclear holucaust, as is usual in these cases... Stupid grays!
...and the only thing they had in common was the guy doing the regression, namely Mr. Hopkins.
1) Assume the evolution of an intelligent race of beings. Assume they solves the faster-than-light (or suspended-animation for millennia) problem. Assume they build enough (billions!) spacecraft such that they've visited every corner of the galaxy, even our little world. Assume they visit people. Assume they have sufficient understanding of human neurology that they can erase most traces of their visits. Assume that, with no knowledge of alien technology, some guy who does "regressions" is smart enough to beat the aliens' hacking of human memory and recover the memories anyway. Assume that with all of these abilities and insights into human neurophysiology, the aliens decided to warn our humans of nuclear holocaust, as opposed to, say, global warming, fundamentalist islam following the end of the cold war, etc. (As you say - stupid greys :-)
2) On the grounds that people can be convinced of remembering things that never happened (google "false memory syndrome"), and on the grounds that humans have been known to pull fast ones before, assume that the guy who did the regression is a human being pulling a fast one on a couple of yokels who lost track of time while driving a long distance, possibly at the limits of human exhaustion, and were very open to suggestions pertaining to the sort of fears that characterized the era, specifically, nuclear holocaust, and they looked exactly like what "aliens" are supposed to look like in the popular culture of the time...
I believe that explanation #2 requires fewer, and smaller, assumptions. It's not safe to drive while microsleeping, but it's been done before. Everything else can be accounted for by...
Let me tell you, it would have to be a clever fraud indeed if they managed to screw up their own memories of the event enough to fool a trained hypnotist...
...the second assumption, namely that our two subjects are more trustworthy than their hypnotist, who probably "knows" more about aliens (or at least, his audience's preconceptions of aliens) than he cares to admit :-)
Could be worse. Coulda happened 400 years ago, and the priest coulda had 'em dunked in water until the demons they'd had commerce with were exorcized.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Johnny_D on 06/21/06 at 11:12 pm
I believe in the Parrotnormal ...
http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/bird-pictures-breeders-chicks/african-grey-parrot-pictures-breeders-chicks/pictures/african-grey-parrot-0015.jpg
BTW ... That parrot is a GREY parrot ... Coincidence? I don't THINK so. 8)
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Johnny_D on 06/21/06 at 11:36 pm
http://galactic.to/azb9152a/grey_1.jpg
"Admiral Polly of the Zeta Reticuli Space Fleet will now tell you puny Earthlings why we have come to your insignificant planet..."
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/22/06 at 4:14 pm
Well, this could possibly be happening. However, this fact stands out to me: Bud Hopkins believe's in malevolent aliens. Many other alien-abduction hypnotists believe in benevolent aliens on a mission to save humanity. However, both have about a 50% belief rate among their patients for each category. Now, if they are influencing the abductee's responses,.. Wouldn't they tend to end up with patients that agree with their view of aliens?
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Dominic L. on 06/24/06 at 11:05 am
Well, this could possibly be happening. However, this fact stands out to me: Bud Hopkins believe's in malevolent aliens. Many other alien-abduction hypnotists believe in benevolent aliens on a mission to save humanity. However, both have about a 50% belief rate among their patients for each category. Now, if they are influencing the abductee's responses,.. Wouldn't they tend to end up with patients that agree with their view of aliens?
Yes, they should test those who have heard both views?
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/24/06 at 1:44 pm
Yes, they should test those who have heard both views?
Well, it's not so much a matter of what they believe, it's more what they think they saw when they were abducted. In about 50% of abduction cases, the abductees come away from it believing that the aliens were evil. The other 50% got the feeling that the aliens were here for our own god, perhaps to prevent us from destroying ourselves in a petty war.
It's interesting to note that in some cases, the aliens are human-looking, and smile all the time. In other cases, the aliens are the "Grays". In some rarer cases, the aliens appear to be gray-like, but have features of insects or reptiles, such as insect wings or reptilian scales. Perhaps those who see grays are more likely to see them as evil... And perhaps two types of aliens are visiting us. Maybe thousandsof years ago, religious people saw them as "angels" and "demons"?
But the ultimate point is, the hypnoptist has very little, if any, influence on the things remembered by the subject.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Johnny_D on 06/24/06 at 4:19 pm
PLEASE NOTE: Everything from THIS LINE DOWN is stuff I copied from elsewhere --- personally, I don't necessarily buy any of it myself, I just think it makes entertaining reading.... Johnny D
From http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/ufoclass.html
OBSERVED UFO OCCUPANT CLASSIFICATIONS
By: Richard D. Butler
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...."> Genesis, Chapter 1, Verse 26
"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the Sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose... There were giants in the Earth in those days; and also after that, when the Sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them...."> Genesis, Chapter 6, Verses 1,2,4
Non Earth-Born Humans
This GROUP consists of three peoples from three distinct colony zones, namely Sirius, Pleiades and Orion. Genetically, they are nearly identical to Earth-born humans with the following exceptions. Abductees refer to these beings as the "talls". Males average up to approximately seven feet in height; females, six and a half feet. They are extremely fine featured, pale in complexion. Eyes are almond shaped, slightly slanted with a natural black liner, much like the renderings of ancient Egyptian royalty. There are three hair colors apparently related to colony origin: blonde (Pleiades), red (Orion), and black (Sirius). The insignia of these combined human races is a triangular arrangement of three spheres. This symbol has deep significance, and is found throughout Earth history. History records these beings as goddesses, gods, devas, etc. A subgroup of GROUP A females is in command of most Terran projects.
Earth-Born Humans
These are Homo Sapiens whose origin is the planet Earth. They can be divided into two separate classes.
(Ancient) - These humans were the companions and house servants of a GROUP A military mining and occupation force. When this force left the Earth sometime between 1,000 BC and 3,500 BC, it was decided to remove all humans that had been in close proximity with them. It was felt that leaving them would only further disrupt normal human development. Class A humans are on an equal level with GROUP A and cooperate fully in all Earth projects.
(Modern) - These humans are working on the same cooperative level as Class A. They were taken from the Earth in modern times. During some abduction projects, twins (either identical or fraternal) are induced in a female subject. During the first trimester, one of the fetuses is removed. It is then grown to maturity by GROUP A. Abductees will meet their twins during some abductions. Very limited contact has been made by these humans.
Genetically Modified Earth-Born Humans
These humans are comprised of two classes and should not be confused with GROUP D Greys.
(Workers) - This class is the smallest in physical stature. They are described as approximately three and a half feet in height, large head and eyes, pale white in complexion. These workers were created by GROUP A through genetic modification of Earth human fetuses. Their function is to perform menial tasks requiring limited reasoning abilities. In mental capacity, they are equivalent to a five year-old child. They are incapable of violence and, in some cases, are kept as companions by GROUP A individuals.
(Technicians) - These humans are basically the same as Class W. they are slightly larger, at approximately four and a half feet in height. Their complexion is tan or yellowish. Their reasoning and deductive abilities are higher. This allows them to perform more complex operations. They are often seen operating ship controls and in transport activities. Both Classes W and T are telepathically camouflaged to appear as Greys to abductees. This is done to conceal the true nature of GROUP C. It is felt that perception of GROUP A maintaining a human slave population would hinder future contact efforts. This point will undoubtedly be a source of much heated debate in the near future.
Greys
Of the six groups discussed in this paper, the Greys appear to represent the only non-human contingent. The following data should be considered tentative at best. Height is approximately five and a half feet. The head is large; eyes large, black and very slanted. Skin color is dark grey and non-porous. All data so far indicates that they may be a cetacean-based life form. On Earth, this comprises the species of whales and dolphins. Descriptions of Greys' skin color and texture closely match that of dolphins. The stare and stun effects approximate that performed by dolphins on potential enemies, such as sharks and barracuda.
Human and dolphin fetuses are nearly identical, up to a certain development stage. Some say they share a common genetic ancestor. If so, then this makes the hybridization of humans and dolphins theoretically feasible.
(Note: For a more detailed look at this group, see The Dolphins of Heaven.)
Human/Grey Hybrids
One of the main ET projects, now in the completion stage, is the hybrid program. The goal of this project is to produce a being combining the best physical and mental qualities of both races. The following description is of a hybrid female, approximately fifteen years old. Height is five feet, three inches; skin color is pale white/grey. the head is slightly larger and rounder than normal. Hair is dark, high above the forehead, and worn in a very long ponytail. The face is very fine-featured, and attractive. Like all the beings discussed in this paper, her main method of communication is telepathic. This has allowed a deeper understanding of her intellectual and emotional make-up. They consider themselves human, not Grey, in almost all respects. They care about the Greys, as any child would a parent, but find them agonizingly boring. The desire for human contact is greater than all others. Their capacity for emotion is as great, if not greater than, humans. Any physical attribute more human than Grey is a great source of pride. Their intellectual capacity is well above human standards. It is very likely they will exceed the capabilities of both races.
SasquatchThese have been seen both near, and on-board, UFOs. Little is known about them. Some have speculated that they are the original pre-human species from which Homo Sapiens were derived.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Johnny_D on 06/24/06 at 4:20 pm
PLEASE NOTE: Everything from THIS LINE DOWN is stuff I copied from elsewhere --- personally, I don't necessarily buy any of it myself, I just think it makes entertaining reading.... Johnny D
From http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/dolphins.html
The following is an article as yet unpublished. Enjoy it with an open mind.
THE DOLPHINS OF HEAVEN
By: Richard D. Butler
The classification and identification of observed alien beings is one of the greatest challenges facing ufology today. If we accept that indeed there are intelligently guided extraterrestrial craft operating in our atmosphere, then the next logical questi on must be who and what, are they? In a previously published article, (Classifications of Observed UFO Occupants) I discussed two primary species of UFO occupants. These are A) Homo Sapiens, and B) Cetaceans.
The first group is comprised of seven human subgroups, both of terrestrial and non-terrestrial origins. The latter group of cetaceans, known as the "Greys," represent the non-human element and are the topic of this article. The information from which these conclusions have been drawn was obtained from the following sources:
personal investigation of over two dozen abduction cases
in-depth interviews with over fifty alleged abductees
general interviews with over seventy-five alleged abductees
an intensive study of ancient mythological and historical data
study of modern day cetacean research data.
The main objective was to compare the observations of modern day abductees against those recorded in ancient history. If the phenomena were genuine and long-term, then correlations between the two should be found, as indeed they were. The following is a brief summary of those beings who were identified.
The main or lead group of alien beings, is advanced humans of non-terrestrial origin. They are in most respects nearly identical to Earth-born Homo Sapiens. They are from three distinct colony zones, Sirius, Orion, Pleiades. They came to the Earth sometime before 50,000 BC for mining and colonization purposes. Note: an excellent source of related information are the Earth Chronicles, by Zechariah Sitchin. These advanced humans modified an existing, Earth-born, pre-human by merging their genes with it. The resultant hybrid is what we now call modern man -- us. The remaining subgroups of humans observed on-board UFOs are all Earth-born humans who were taken from the Earth, both in ancient and modern times. References to each of these types can be found in our historical literature, described in various ways. In very ancient times they were called Gods. Some of the later names are angels, devas, fairies, elves, demons, incubus and succubus, etc. It is interesting to note that as mankind developed, these beings have continued to be involved in one way or another, in human affairs.
In modern times we no longer refer to these beings in spiritual terms. We call them ETs or aliens, and have become aware of both their physical nature, and their high state of technological advancement. Whether our various social and religious organizations can survive the growing pains of finally leaving our state of intellectual pre-puberty, remains to be seen.
Now let us examine the only non-human UFO contingent, the Greys. Based on eyewitness testimony, the following physical profile can be composed. Height is 5 feet 5 inches; overall shape is humanoid. Skin coloration is dark gray and non-porous. The head is proportionally large and triangular-shaped in the vertical plane. The back skull area is large and rounded. The eyes are large and slanted upwards toward the back. Greys are often mistaken for two human subgroups, known as workers and technicians. These are smaller and as stated, are of human descent.
Based on all the evidence thus far seen, we might hypothesize as follows. The Greys descended from cetaceans. What are cetaceans? On Earth they comprise the species we call whales and dolphins. We have already seen that human species can be found elsewhere. If the same genetic code for humans exists on other worlds, then it is not unreasonable to propose that other genetic codes previously thought to be only Earth-indigenous, exist out there as well. This raises a very interesting question -- Why is the same basic genetic code found on all these different worlds? The answer may well be that an unknown intelligence deliberately seeded the various planets with the same basic genetic blueprints.
The Earth then is merely one in a series of duplicate genetic environments. Who were these seeders and what was their purpose? Interesting questions, indeed. Perhaps in a future article it can be discussed in greater detail. Now let us get back to our central issue, the Greys. What are the reasons for supposing that they are a dolphin-based life form? The answer to this is found in the similarities of both their physical and behavioral aspects.
First let us examine the physical characteristics. The skin of a Grey is very similar to that of dolphins, both in texture and in some cases, coloration. If you have an abductee look at a dark gray porpoise, the response is in the affirmative. On Earth, the dolphins evolved legs and arms to function on land but later returned to the oceans. X-rays clearly show the residual appendages in modern day dolphins. It is possible that the Greys evolved just as Earth dolphins but did not return to the oceans, and continued to develop as a land-based mammal. Next is the skull shape. The Greys have a large rounded rear area in the upper front and back of their skulls. An examination of the dolphin skull shows the same large, rounded front and rear areas. The eyes of Greys are described as large and black with what appears to be a protective shielding covering the eye. Many Earth aquatic animals have developed protective outer-eye shields for underwater use. It is possible that this is a left-over attribute from the Greys' ocean origins. Another factor is the dark coloration of this eye shield. It suggests an eye structure suited for a reduced light environment. In the oceans, this is natural for a creature living underwater where the sunlight does not penetrate. On Earth, the dolphins developed the sonar ability as their primary navigational ability and do not rely on sight while underwater.
Now we will look at the behavioral similarities. Earths' dolphins use sonar to navigate and stun both prey and enemies. The stun affect is of particular interest to us. Dolphins can emit a very powerful and focused ultrasonic burst from the front portion of their skulls. They use this to stun prey and to stun enemies such as sharks and barracuda. I once saw a film of a group of dolphins using this ability on a very large barracuda. The barracuda was swimming towards a group of baby dolphins. Four large adult dolphins turned so that there heads were directly in line with the barracuda and emitted a sustained ultrasonic burst. The effect on the barracuda was astounding. It froze, completely paralyzed in the water. Even the gills had stopped moving. The dolpins stared at it for about thirty seconds, during which time the barracuda remained totally immobilized. As soon as they turned their heads away, the ultrasonic beam was no longer focused on the barracuda and it fled at a very high speed. Obviously this beam was tightly focused and required the dolphins' heads to be pointed directly at the target. The strength of the beam could be changed also. When hunting it could be directed at small fish and amplified to lethal levels, causing instant death. Some believe that this is also used when dolphins kill sharks, by ramming them. Autopsies show the sharks' internal organs have been literally shattered.
The beam can also be controlled to produce a stun effect as in the case of the barracuda. The result was physical paralysis and disorientation. I believe that this is the very same technique used by the Greys in abductions. The similarities are overwhelming. Every abductee says that when they are abducted they are paralyzed and become mentally disoriented. This is usually in the presence of a Grey. The most striking thing they recall is what is called the "Stare." This is when the Grey looks directly at an abductee. The large dark eyes capture the abductee's attention immediately. They then report being unable to move, and a feeling of great mental disorientation. On some rare occasions, abductees report a lessening of these effects when the Grey looked a way from them. This indicates that the intensity of the effect was directly proportional to the direction or focus of the front portion of the Greys' head.
I believe that Greys possess the same sonar abilities as all dolphins and that these abilities are used to stun an abductee during the abduction. The "Stare" as abductees call it, comes from the positioning of the Greys' frontal skull area, the projection area, to achieve maximum beam concentration on the abductee. When the Grey looks away, the beam would naturally become less focused and the effect would diminish, just as it does.
The description of a Greys' head is large, triangular and rounded in front and back. This suggests a large and rounded rear and frontal brain lobe structure. This is identical to the physical structure of cetaceans. It is the main difference between cetacean and human brains. This large rounding is thought to be an adaptation of the cetacean brain to handle the enormous data flow of their echo-location and sound-based communications faculties. It should also be noted that on the rare occasions that abductees hear verbal sounds from Greys, it is described as high-pitched, sometimes chattering or staccato clicks or beeps. These are all similar to the air vocalizations of dolphins.
The Greys are reportedly engaged in human/grey hybrid experiments. This is reportedly to combine the genetic material of both species into a hybrid species. Is this possible? Japan and several other countries are working even now on inter-species hybridizations. If I am correct that the Greys are of dolphin descent, then the possibility of successful hybridization becomes much greater. Some believe that on Earth, man shared a common genetic ancestor with the dolphin. Up to a certain point in development, human and dolphin fetuses are nearly identical. In the not too distant future it will be possible to produce a hybrid human/dolphin species. I contend that the Greys have already beaten us to it.
Finally I would like to point out that dolphins have been associated with the "Gods" a.k.a. the aliens, from earliest recorded times. Certain mythologies hold that some of the Gods came from a world of water. It is now thought by some that these beings genetically altered the existing prehumans on Earth. It is certain that the Greys would have had a hand in this. One of the greatest of ancient worship sites is the temple of Delphi. This was originally the temple of the sea Goddess. The word Delphos means both dolphin and womb. I believe it is time we stopped calling them Greys and used the name our ancestors called them. They knew of the Gods who came from the water world in the heavens long ago. They called them Delphim.
I hope that you have found this enlightening and thought provoking. For those out there who consider humans the only intelligent species on the planet, let me illustrate the power of the cetacean brain. The Bible contains just over a million and a half bits of information. The song sung by humpbacked whales contains over fifteen million bits of information. Each year it changes just slightly and every whale on the planet knows what those changes are. Now ask yourself this. Could you remember the Bible word for word? Could you remember fifteen of them? Think about it. If our Bible contains our basic history, social and religious philosophies, what does something fifteen times larger contain?
It is my deepest hope that this article will allow you to open new perceptions of the events now taking place on this planet. To see both the Greys and yourself, in a new way. I think in time we will come to find that what's down here, is exactly what's out there. That there are humans and dolphins cooperating out there, I am certain. Perhaps we should stop and ponder our roles as the caretakers of this planet. Our own cetacean population has been hunted by man to the very edge of extinction. It is someth ing that we all must take shame in. Recently, efforts have been made by the civilized nations to preserve the great whales and dolphins. Can we live peacefully on this planet with another intelligent species? I truly hope so. I would hate for another more advanced species to treat us as we've treated the whales.
Many hope for contact with these beings. If we cannot get along with an indigenous intelligent species, how can we expect to get along with one of extraterrestrial origins. Peoples are judged by their actions. If we demonstrate our goodwill toward our fellow inhabitants of this world, perhaps those not of this world will be sent a message - that we are civilized after all.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 06/27/06 at 7:23 pm
I don't have time at the moment to read all of this carefully, but a few thigns stand out to me at first glance:
I hope that you have found this enlightening and thought provoking. For those out there who consider humans the only intelligent species on the planet, let me illustrate the power of the cetacean brain. The Bible contains just over a million and a half bits of information. The song sung by humpbacked whales contains over fifteen million bits of information. Each year it changes just slightly and every whale on the planet knows what those changes are. Now ask yourself this. Could you remember the Bible word for word? Could you remember fifteen of them? Think about it. If our Bible contains our basic history, social and religious philosophies, what does something fifteen times larger contain?
Well, you assume that the ability to remember soemthing translated directly into an IQ value. It doesn't. Computers can easily transfer several billion bits of information over a beam of light... Yet they are only doing what they are programmed to do. Instinct causes the animal world to do many amazing thigns... But the guiding force behind all of them is just that - instinct. Also, how much of the "information" contained in the whale's calls is actual data? How much of it is error-correction? remember, these sounds have to travel thousands of miles... If it is as important as you suggest it may be, you wouldn't want to lose a single bit of information, would you? Chaos theory dictates that over time, a single error would cause the entire call to change to, well, pure chaos very quickly were there errors. I propose that if there is any meaningful information in the calls of the whales, most of it is padded and safeguarded within a huge amount of repetition and error-correction, so that none of the actual info is lost.
Have you analysed the whale's calls? How much of it follows patterns? Computers are remarkably good at finding patterns. Good enough to pick out an mp3 of Motzart music out of a million mp3s containing only noise. Until you can give me the results of a comptuer analysis, I will remain a slight skeptic (although your point of view is interesting).
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: 80sGirl on 07/05/06 at 7:57 am
I am a big time believer in anything that has to do with the paranormal. Like UFOs, Ghosts, monsters, and other stuff like that.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 07/05/06 at 3:04 pm
I am a big time believer in anything that has to do with the paranormal. Like UFOs, Ghosts, monsters, and other stuff like that.
Well, then I suggest you become an expert on the subject. Otherwise some people will try to convince you that UFOs are "hot-air balloons" and that all bigfoot sightings are hoaxes...
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: twistedwarp on 07/08/06 at 1:31 pm
You really got to experience to believe in the paranormal and I experienced not only me but my sisters and my brother. beacuase we used to live in a building and where we lived was in a basement. (you probably dont know if you never been in a city ) And where we lived was just what some call it hunted. also beacuase my sisters used to play with a ouija board. Things happend. like closing the doors, voices in the hall way. I also remember twice that the blender and the radio turned on on front of me and my moms face. rediculous. So yeah you really got to experience it to believe.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Johnny_D on 07/08/06 at 6:33 pm
I don't have time at the moment to read all of this carefully, but a few thigns stand out to me at first glance:
Well, you assume that the ability to remember soemthing translated directly into an IQ value. It doesn't. Computers can easily transfer several billion bits of information over a beam of light... Yet they are only doing what they are programmed to do. Instinct causes the animal world to do many amazing thigns... But the guiding force behind all of them is just that - instinct. Also, how much of the "information" contained in the whale's calls is actual data? How much of it is error-correction? remember, these sounds have to travel thousands of miles... If it is as important as you suggest it may be, you wouldn't want to lose a single bit of information, would you? Chaos theory dictates that over time, a single error would cause the entire call to change to, well, pure chaos very quickly were there errors. I propose that if there is any meaningful information in the calls of the whales, most of it is padded and safeguarded within a huge amount of repetition and error-correction, so that none of the actual info is lost.
Have you analysed the whale's calls? How much of it follows patterns? Computers are remarkably good at finding patterns. Good enough to pick out an mp3 of Motzart music out of a million mp3s containing only noise. Until you can give me the results of a comptuer analysis, I will remain a slight skeptic (although your point of view is interesting).
Oops, my mistake --- I should have put everything in that post of mine in quotes and said that I don't necessarily buy any of it. I'll do that now.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: KKay on 07/08/06 at 6:34 pm
now i wonder why it is that i don't believe it but can spend hours reading and watching shows about it?
the mulder and scully in me won't ever agree.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 07/10/06 at 7:17 am
So yeah you really got to experience it to believe.
I don't think so. I believe in the paranormal, and MidKnightDarkness believes in the paranormal,.. And neither of us have had any paranormal experiences.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 07/10/06 at 7:18 am
I don't think so. I believe in the paranormal, and MidKnightDarkness believes in the paranormal,.. And neither of us have had any paranormal experiences.
as do I. ;)
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: MidKnightDarkness on 07/10/06 at 3:04 pm
I don't think so. I believe in the paranormal, and MidKnightDarkness believes in the paranormal,.. And neither of us have had any paranormal experiences.
As much as MidKnightDarkness would like to :(
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 07/10/06 at 3:24 pm
As much as MidKnightDarkness would like to :(
...And as much as JohnDenver would like to. Seriously, we need to hunt down those ghosts and force them to haunt us...
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: MidKnightDarkness on 07/10/06 at 3:39 pm
...And as much as JohnDenver would like to. Seriously, we need to hunt down those ghosts and force them to haunt us...
Well, now that I have directions to your house.. we can!
>:-}D
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Dominic L. on 07/10/06 at 7:37 pm
Well, now that I have directions to your house.. we can!
>:-}D
BOO!
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: JohnDenver on 07/11/06 at 7:40 am
Well, now that I have directions to your house.. we can!
>:-}D
Hmmm... Now where will we look for ghosts?
BOO!
Question answered!
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: annonymouse on 08/18/06 at 11:17 pm
this really is a difficult topic for me. i believe i've seen a ghost, but i don't believe in all that spiritual mumbo jumbo.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: GREEN67 on 09/15/06 at 4:49 am
8)OK...PPLE are going to think I am nuts BUT....I am one of those PPLE who are very open and can FEEL spirits..and see them..ever since I was a child..I can go into a house and feel a presence..or a chill...goosebumps etc..I saw and heard MANY ghosts when I was a child..My grandmothers house was haunted..When I was a child also..( my parents have lived in the same house for 40 yrs )...I had MANY encounters with the supernatural...My room had a huge bay window and the curtains let the moonlight shine in..I awoke to the feeling of something pushing down on the end of my bed...Happened many, many times..but this time..in the moonlight I saw a dark figure...A black hooded figure..I knew right away it looked just like the Grim Reaper...( I AM NOT KIDDING )...he stood at the foot of my bed and then slowly came around to the right side...I was soo scared..You know when you want to scream..but you cant..he stood there for awhile then turned away and left...I immediately sat up and turned on the lamp and pinched myself...AND...when I was 19, I was a carpetlayer and was traveling home to TN from Florida...( where I lived at the time)..I was driving a Burgundy Ford F150..it was around 3 in the am...right outside of Chattanooga...I had to slam on the brakes...this thing...was just strolling across the road...My headlights caught the lower half of its body...walking upright..hands just like a man..covered in a dark reddish brown hair...I SWEAR it had to be Bigfoot..I firmly believe it!
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 11/11/06 at 1:58 am
I could not answer the poll because it's too limiting.
I am a skeptic at the same time as the paranormal intrigues me.
Do spirits of the dead lurk among us? Quite possibly. I'm not dismissive. It's just that no offered evidence has convinced me that any specific case is true. Same goes for extraterrestrial visitations, telekinesis, and so forth. However, I have seen no proof convincing me paranormal phenomena do not or cannot exist.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
-- Donald Rumsfeld (a man who nearly convinced me Satan walked among us!)
One caveat, when it comes to the more fantastic legends of cryptozoology, I side with the debunkers.
Here is the paranormal paradox. Faith. You may believe in the paranormal. However, once you demonstrate the existence of a paranormal phenomenon using scientific methods, than it is no longer paranormal. It is normal. It is part of the known world.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Snoopygirl on 12/04/06 at 8:50 pm
I have always believed in ghosts and the paranormal. I believe there are things to which we cannot explain. I took a picture at my uncle's gravesite a few years ago and I got something on the film that I can't explain. I would love to find somewhere I can take it to and have a professional examine it. Also, my grandmother who lived with us died 2 years ago, and for a few months afterwards I kept hearing the light sounds of bells jingling. I traced it to a wind chime my niece gave her. But we kept the chimes indoors and in a spot where there wasn't no breeze at all. She kept them in her room. I'd like to think it was her, letting us know that she was still around.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: nicki_morrissey on 12/05/06 at 9:25 pm
I'm kinda torn, thanks to my boyfriend.
Not too long ago, I told Matt that I believe in ghosts. He was like, "You're agnostic, right? You don't have a religion because it hasn't been proven that there really is a God. So why do you believe in ghosts? Their existence hasn't been proven."
So for the sake of not being a hypocrite, I don't exactly know if I believe in paranormal things anymore... : (
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Marty McFly on 12/23/06 at 2:58 am
I believe that there are ghosts surrounding us. I also believe in other life form of some kind. As far as Bigfoot....I know my two uncles claimed that they saw a creature of that nature sitting in the woods near their house...so, who knows? ???
I believe in it. Not sure exactly how it works, but I do believe ghosts are around (we probably just can't see them unless they choose to appear).
I'm almost positive one of the apartment complexes I used to live in was haunted. It just had that "eerie" feeling to it sometimes, like it would sound or feel like somebody was in the house. Such as doors or cabinets opening or closing, just general sounds of there being a person there, when there really wasn't. The floors creaked like hell too. Or, you could put something on a perfectly flat counter and it would roll.
I can say this somewhat humorously now, but there were times it was hard to relax with all this stuff that felt like noises or a presence. This was in 1995. I was 13 and a half, old enough to be home by myself after school, so sometimes I'd go around the house with a huge metal baseball bat, creeping around the hallways and suddenly entering a room like a cop, lol. ;)
Long story short, there was never any one huge occurence, but all kinds of little ones put together that made me think that townhouse was haunted. Perhaps someone died in it beforehand - that's not to make jokes or anything. Seriously, I have heard of many many instances of hauntings like that where a person died, especially before their time.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 12/23/06 at 6:13 pm
I can say this somewhat humorously now, but there were times it was hard to relax with all this stuff that felt like noises or a presence. This was in 1995. I was 13 and a half, old enough to be home by myself after school, so sometimes I'd go around the house with a huge metal baseball bat, creeping around the hallways and suddenly entering a room like a cop, lol. ;)
as long as you were not scaling walls!! ;) ;D
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Marty McFly on 12/24/06 at 1:15 am
as long as you were not scaling walls!! ;) ;D
No, I never went that far. ;)
Although, I did once play "Ghostbusters" (the song) really loud. That actually worked for awhile. ;D
The upstairs seemed okay pretty much. I always heard stuff that sounded like it was toward the front. There was even a little makeshift crawl space downstairs that I'm guessing someone who'd lived there before had made, that went from one of the closets to underneath the stairs. We stored some stuff in there for awhile. I wonder if that had anything to do with it?
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 12/24/06 at 10:13 pm
No, I never went that far. ;)
Although, I did once play "Ghostbusters" (the song) really loud. That actually worked for awhile. ;D
The upstairs seemed okay pretty much. I always heard stuff that sounded like it was toward the front. There was even a little makeshift crawl space downstairs that I'm guessing someone who'd lived there before had made, that went from one of the closets to underneath the stairs. We stored some stuff in there for awhile. I wonder if that had anything to do with it?
hmmm...could be. Maybe something fishy went on in there, when someone else lived there...ya never know.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: shirleyrocks on 01/05/07 at 2:36 pm
Haha, I'm one of the view who believes in Bigfoot, eh? :D That's fine. I just like to believe that there's something more out there, that is unknown by humans. Keeps the hope alive that we don't know ALL there is to know, it'll forever be an evolving/learning thing.
My whole theory on UFO's is that they're time travelers, hehe. They're what human beings will eventually evolve too. They're just taking "vacations" to present day to see their ancestors. Am I alone on this theory? HEHEHE. ;D
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 01/05/07 at 8:24 pm
Haha, I'm one of the view who believes in Bigfoot, eh? :D That's fine. I just like to believe that there's something more out there, that is unknown by humans. Keeps the hope alive that we don't know ALL there is to know, it'll forever be an evolving/learning thing.
My whole theory on UFO's is that they're time travelers, hehe. They're what human beings will eventually evolve too. They're just taking "vacations" to present day to see their ancestors. Am I alone on this theory? HEHEHE. ;D
I wish I could time travel....that would make my life so much happier! :D ;)
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Marty McFly on 01/06/07 at 4:45 am
As much as I'd like to time travel, I think it's a fantasy outside of Doc and Marty's universe.
If it does exist, I think it would have to work like it did in the Bill and Ted movies: a "fixed" history where you can't really "change" anything, since what you did was always part of history. I also heard a theory once that said if you could time travel, you just wouldn't be able to travel back to before the time machine was invented. That actually makes sense to me.
Honestly, the reason I'm so iffy on believing it exists is that, by logic we'd see tons of time travellers here already. What I mean is, let's say time travel exists in the future - some genius rocket scientist builds one in 3000 and people now have access to it. Wouldn't they come back here and be able to change the course of history?
Then again, if the UFOs are time machines, heck, maybe they change things every time they're here. Maybe this isn't the "original" 2007 (sort of like the different 1985's in BTTF)! ;)
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: shirleyrocks on 01/08/07 at 2:13 pm
Now there's a thought. It could be version 3290390390 of 2007. Hahaha. Maybe the UFO's just know NOT to mess w/ anything to alter the future, they're just time traveling as a "vacation" to see how things were "back in the day" and stuff. Just a theory. :)
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: nicki_morrissey on 01/08/07 at 6:27 pm
My boyfriend and I have talked about aliens a lot, and he's really shifted my opinion. See, there might be life on other planets because there's just so much about space that we don't know about. Then again, it's nearly impossible that they have visited Earth because it could take them thousands of lightyears to get here. Why would they want to waste so much time getting here?
Has anyone else ever considered this?
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: quirky_cat_girl on 01/08/07 at 10:52 pm
My boyfriend and I have talked about aliens a lot, and he's really shifted my opinion. See, there might be life on other planets because there's just so much about space that we don't know about. Then again, it's nearly impossible that they have visited Earth because it could take them thousands of lightyears to get here. Why would they want to waste so much time getting here?
Has anyone else ever considered this?
Yes, I have thought about this quite often. I mean, there are the planets....just sitting there....they have to have SOME purpose...so why not for other life forms?
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Dominic L. on 01/08/07 at 11:17 pm
My boyfriend and I have talked about aliens a lot, and he's really shifted my opinion. See, there might be life on other planets because there's just so much about space that we don't know about. Then again, it's nearly impossible that they have visited Earth because it could take them thousands of lightyears to get here. Why would they want to waste so much time getting here?
Has anyone else ever considered this?
Yeah, I've figured that there are probably aliens in another galaxy or something...
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: Fred on 01/19/07 at 9:45 pm
If the universe is holographic in nature, all information is simultaneously present at every point in spacetime. If that's true, then there's nothing supernatural or paranormal about the phenomena we call clairvoyance, telepathy, psychometry, or ESP --- they're all simply a matter of learning how to become aware of information that's already present, on a very subtle level, at every point in space and time. If someone really desires to acquire such abilities, there are many simple methods for doing so. But if you desire and acquire such abilities, they open you up to lots of opportunities for inflating your ego and playing power games with other people, both of which can make life unpleasantly complicated.
Yes, that is exactly the way I feel. I couldn't have put it better myself.
Subject: Re: Do you believe in the paranormal?
Written By: tokjct on 05/16/07 at 7:24 pm
Of course I believe in ghosts. So many people have experienced the supernatural, they can't all be wrong.
MidnightD has made the point exactly...I have experienced too many supernatural occurrences...and I am well schooled in university science and philosophy. Which means, though I have learned the meaning of healthy skepticism...there is too much that science and logic cannot explain.
Remember...it is almost universally acknowledged that a human being only utilizes a small percentage of his brain...
Copyright 1995-2007, by Charles R. Grosvenor Jr.