http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Music/12/12/obit.ike.turner.ap/index.html

He's got a star on our walk of fame.. maybe I'll go piss on it.

He's got a star on our walk of fame.. maybe I'll go piss on it.


Yeah, I was reluctant to say anything about him at all. I know he did a lot for rock and roll, but if Tina's stories are true....damn.

Yeah, I was reluctant to say anything about him at all. I know he did a lot for rock and roll, but if Tina's stories are true....damn.


Not just that. The fact that he welched on child support, roughed up all of his 4-8-14 wives, did nothing for his kids and was just plain annoying.

yeah funny but I feel nothing... think Tina's having a party?

Not just that. The fact that he welched on child support, roughed up all of his 4-8-14 wives, did nothing for his kids and was just plain annoying.


I was reluctant to mention that too. He was an ass hole, but a talented ass hole. How unfortunate.

yeah funny but I feel nothing... think Tina's having a party?


I would be. :D

Yes, Ike was nasty s.o.b. in his personal life.

However, his obit is at long last acknowledging that Ike put out the first rock 'n' roll record, "Rocket 88" in 1951, which featured the amplified electric guitar style definitive of rock 'n' roll.  No, it wasn't "Rock Around the Clock" by Bill Hailey and the Comets.  That's safe whitebread music for Ralph and Potzie.  Black people invented rock 'n' roll out of the amplified rhythm and blues in the years preceeding it's "official" birth year, 1955.  Of these R&B guys, Ike Turner was most important.

THAT should be the Ike Turner legacy.

Now, I've got no patience for domestic violence, I grew up around it, I abominate it.  However, Ike was neither first nor the last R&B man to use his woman as a punching bag; he's the only one who got infamous for it.  It's been hashed out a hundred times.  The public has spent ample time demonizing Ike Turner over the past four decades.

Now upon his death, I would rather acknowledge his musical achievements.  As the AP obit points out, Ike won a Grammy for traditional blues with album "Risin' with the Blues."  It ain't over 'till it's over!  Now it's over for Ike, but he worked until the end.
8)

I was surprised to hear this news but I don't feel bad about it at all.

I was surprised to hear this news but I don't feel bad about it at all.


I wouldn't say he deserves for us to celebrate his death but he was old and he's just one person. Why should I be sad over a celebrity more than any other person?

Believe it or not, Ike Turner was a huge part of my growing up. Not because I listened to a lot of his music (I did a bit), but because I saw 'What's Love Got to Do with It: The Tina Turner Story" like 25 times growing up. It was one of the few films we had on VHS. And boy did Laurence Fishburne do a great job playing Ike. Of course, I think his evilness may have been exaggerated a little. And it also didn't give the man enough credit for being one of the architects of Rock n' Roll. Some people argue that Rocket 88 was the first Rock song. Of course, he did his timeless work with Anna Mae (that's Tina), but she was just the singer... he did all the work, and all the man wanted was for her to sing those  songs like her "motherf***ing life depended on it." (It probably did depend on it, actually...).

For all you people who don't know, check this clip of "Rocket 88" on youtube. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbfnh1oVTk0

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:f5w2xoJTKZDjiM:http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/2660761.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DViewImages%26k%3D2%26d%3D6E41E83E90A345BDD2043CBE37038FFFA55A1E4F32AD3138 http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:YRerwJ-J3xqLVM:http://www.nbc11.com/2007/1212/14839176_240X180.jpg

But seriously people, lighten up on old Ike. You don't know what really happened. Sure, he probably roughed Tina up quite a bit, but I personally forgive him for it just because doing Ike impressions à la Fishburne can be so hilarious. That was such a great movie, and still is one of my favourites. It's horrifying sometimes as well.

"even pricks turn into top blokes after death" - The Eulogy Song by The Chasers

However, his obit is at long last acknowledging that Ike put out the first rock 'n' roll record, "Rocket 88" in 1951, which featured the amplified electric guitar style definitive of rock 'n' roll.  No, it wasn't "Rock Around the Clock" by Bill Hailey and the Comets.  That's safe whitebread music for Ralph and Potzie.  Black people invented rock 'n' roll out of the amplified rhythm and blues in the years preceeding it's "official" birth year, 1955.  Of these R&B guys, Ike Turner was most important.It's impossible to say what the first Rock 'n' Roll record was. It didn't happen over night. Rock 'n' Roll was an evolutionary thing. There are songs dating back to the 40s even 30s with RnR characteristics. It's silly to say any record was the first Rock 'n' Roll record. Sure, "Rocket 88" was the first popular song to have a distorted guitar. But it's not the very first song to have some RnR characteristics. Infact, I'd say it's more accurate to say "Rock Around the Clock" was the first RnR record. What distinguishes RnR from R&B is the popularity, the stardom of the artists that sang it, the teen target audience. And since "Rock Around the Clock" was the first international RnR hit record, it's more of a RnR song than "Rocket 88", so therefore it's more accurate to give it the "first Rock 'n' Roll record" title. But in reality there is no "first Rock 'n' Roll record". Just as there is no real "King of Rock 'n' Roll", just a promotion campaign to sell Elvis Presley's records.

yeah funny but I feel nothing... think Tina's having a party?


I think a part of her is a little sad, but if what's true about Ike, her sadness will be over in a few seconds lol

I think a part of her is a little sad, but if what's true about Ike, her sadness will be over in a few seconds lol


Don't agree. Whether he was a tormentor or not, he was also her mentor and lover for many years, and he represents a huge chunk of her life. She's the mother of at least one of his children. She will certainly be a bit sad. She'll probably be at the funeral.

Dude, I read the CNN article linked at the top of the thread, and it started out right away with the slagging. 'Ogrelike... brutally abused...' I'm sorry, but wtf? They don't know sh*t. He was never charged or found guilty of a crime involving Tina, so they cannot pretend to know to what extent there was abuse. All they have to go on is a book written by Tina and Kurt Loder (wtf?) and its movie adaptation. And the fact that Ike admits that the two's relationship was oftentimes violent.... other than that, they got squat on Ike. But does that stop them from starting off his obituary as though he were some kind of monster? No.

Read the CBC article here: http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2007/12/12/ike-turner-obit.html

Notice the difference. The CBC article mentions the violent aspect of the relationship, but doesn't name-call or presume to know the details of their marriage. This, people, is called responsible and objective journalism. Read the two articles and compare. I implore you. It's a perfect example of how ALL the US media outlets distort the truth or at least try to project their own version of the truth instead of giving just the facts.

Having dealt with a lot of women in violent relationships I am going to side with Tina on this one.... as you said Ike admitted that their relationship was sometimes violent... That's enough for me...even if he "only" hit her one that that is still one time too many!  Especially in the 60s when the law wasn't necessarily on the women's side in issue of domestic abuse.  I was never a fan of Tina's but I admire her for her  perseverance,  strength and survival....

Ike can rot in hell

Having dealt with a lot of women in violent relationships I am going to side with Tina on this one.... as you said Ike admitted that their relationship was sometimes violent... That's enough for me...even if he "only" hit her one that that is still one time too many!  Especially in the 60s when the law wasn't necessarily on the women's side in issue of domestic abuse.  I was never a fan of Tina's but I admire her for her  perseverance,  strength and survival....

Ike can rot in hell


Dude, rot in Hell? That's not a bit of a strong judgement to pass on someone you know only from a book/movie characterisation? Look, if Ike did abuse her, I'm not defending that. But you don't know what happened, so I think all this demonising and treating a dead musician to all sorts of terrible names and wishes is a bit overboard.

Should Liza Minelli rot in hell when she dies, for beating her husband? It would technically be the same thing, only the shoe's on the other foot.

I agree that men who beat their wives are generally dirtbags, but there's usually a personal context. For example (and don't think this is an excuse for his alleged abuse), Ike was an artist under loads of financial pressure and he turned to drugs to deal with it, which probably made him even more desperate and violent. Again, this is no excuse for hitting someone and abusing them emotionally, but given the context, you can say that Ike probably wasn't an evil man... he just had a lot of problems (as gifted artists often do).

Tina Turner has released a statement stating that she has not spoken to him in thirty years and that she is keeping it that way.

I stand by my opinion McDonald... and like me you are totally entitled to your own opinion.

I stand by my opinion McDonald... and like me you are totally entitled to your own opinion.


Obviously. I just think people are too quick to condemn.

Tons of people in history that everyone treats with respect were bastard-ish in their personal lives. Ben Franklin was a womaniser who cheated on his wife all the time. Thomas Jefferson shagged his slaves. These are also pretty reprehensible behaviours when you look at it from the wife or slave's point of view, but people tend to look the other way for it because of all the things they accomplished. All I'm saying is that people should probably do the same for Ike Turner. They know there was some abuse, but they probably don't know very much even about that... But we do know that he was a talented musician who orchestrated plenty of hits, I mean released the first RnR song for god's sake. These are big deals, and it's probably more than you or I will ever accomplish.

Tina Turner has released a statement stating that she has not spoken to him in thirty years and that she is keeping it that way.



The statement from her publicist reads: “Tina hasn’t had any contact with Ike in 35 years. No further comment will be made.”

Please, I thought this sight was to honor the mans music, not his actions.  He was a force that in rock and roll that was undeniable. There aren't too many that would pass any kind of test when it comes to the treatment of their wives and children.  His influence is solid, and appreciated.

The funny thing, I thought he died years ago.  :-[  It wasn't until a few years ago that I realized that he was indeed still alive.


Yes, he was a big force in the music world. He could be called "the father of rock-n-roll" but I still see him as an abuser. I do know that is between him and Tina but being on the receiving end of abuse, I feel totally empty for his passing.



Cat

yeah funny but I feel nothing... think Tina's having a party?


She'll dance "Proud Mary" on Ike's grave while showing-off her sexy legs.

Been listening to some old Ike & Tina on Youtube. God that stuff was so good.

I love "I think it's gonna work out fine" (favourite one), "A Fool in Love", "Nutbush City Limits", "River Deep Mountain High" etc...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=YRMi61NkrXY&feature=related There's a good medley of their older stuff.

Having dealt with a lot of women in violent relationships I am going to side with Tina on this one.... as you said Ike admitted that their relationship was sometimes violent... That's enough for me...even if he "only" hit her one that that is still one time too many!  Especially in the 60s when the law wasn't necessarily on the women's side in issue of domestic abuse.  I was never a fan of Tina's but I admire her for her  perseverance,  strength and survival....

Ike can rot in hell

I agree, one time is too many as far as I'm concerned too.  

Tina did the brave thing, she walked away from her batterer and never turned back.  Ike may have warned her she was through without him, as so many batterers do, but she showed him up in the grandest way possible. And that's that.

This isn't Ike versus Tina, and praising Ike's contribution to music is not excusing his wicked ways.  

And excuse me, I know the history of pop music.  I did say rock 'n' roll evolved from the amplified rhythm & blues, and no Bill Hailey does not deserve more credit the Ike Turner.  
::)

Hawk's Two Cents:

Ike Turner was a complicated person, beset by his own demons.
We all have them.

On a professional level- Ike's contributions to Rock music and Blues music were quite innovative.
Many people don't realize that Ike wrote just about everything he ever played.
During the '70s, he experimented with many of the Guitar FX that are now rather commonplace in Alternative and Industrial music today. He certainly deserves to be honored for his lasting contributions.

On a personal level- Ike Turner had indeed proven to be abusive, deadbeatish, and self-absorbed.
These personal behaviors were most likely due to his insecurities, thus forcing him to adopt a "tough" image. Being raised in the "old school" generation, he was taught that crying is a sign of weakness, and to relax or "loosen up" was to be plowed under, socially.
-Thus, he indulged in the seemingly time-honored traditions of drug and alcohol abuse...sometimes to excess. These most likely triggered the already-touchy areas in his brain that stemmed the violent natures he possessed.

Whether you respect or abhor his actions, Ike Turner was certainly a complex person to understand.
Whilst we cannot necessarily condone his personal conduct, we can applaud his lasting contributions to music.

Hawk's Two Cents:

Ike Turner was a complicated person, beset by his own demons.
We all have them.

On a professional level- Ike's contributions to Rock music and Blues music were quite innovative.
Many people don't realize that Ike wrote just about everything he ever played.
During the '70s, he experimented with many of the Guitar FX that are now rather commonplace in Alternative and Industrial music today. He certainly deserves to be honored for his lasting contributions.

On a personal level- Ike Turner had indeed proven to be abusive, deadbeatish, and self-absorbed.
These personal behaviors were most likely due to his insecurities, thus forcing him to adopt a "tough" image. Being raised in the "old school" generation, he was taught that crying is a sign of weakness, and to relax or "loosen up" was to be plowed under, socially.
-Thus, he indulged in the seemingly time-honored traditions of drug and alcohol abuse...sometimes to excess. These most likely triggered the already-touchy areas in his brain that stemmed the violent natures he possessed.

Whether you respect or abhor his actions, Ike Turner was certainly a complex person to understand.
Whilst we cannot necessarily condone his personal conduct, we can applaud his lasting contributions to music.


Well said.

And Max is right, this isn't about Ike vs. Tina. I really like Tina Turner's solo music as well, not as much though. She did the right thing by walking away from him. And assuming it is the whole truth, she may have done the right thing by telling her story to everyone else, even if it does deprive Ike of the credit he deserves in other arenas. You know, he was denied a day in his honour in St. Louis because of Tina's stories of him.

Having been in abusive relationships myself, I certainly can believe Tina's stories.

Yes, abuse can indeed screw one up mentally and emotionally.
However, one can get through it and make themselves stronger.

Tina showed us that.

However, Tina isn't the one to whom this thread is dedicated...Ike is.

So, Ike Turner- wherever you are, know that you are honored and reviled at the same time.
You have a achieved a most difficult state- may God grant you mercy, and may you suffer the indignity of the pain of your malevolent actions. Perhaps God may forgive you, but there are many who won't.

As I said... I've never been a fan of Tina's I just feel for her struggle...like wise I'm not a fan of Ike's (not just for the obvious reasons) prior to this thread I couldn't name and Ike (& Tina) Turner song outside of Proud Mary. I don't know- outside of What's Love Got To Do With It that I was exposed to any....and I certainly don't remember the music from the film because I wasn't interested in it.  So I say I'm done defending my opinions for an artist I don't give two shakes about despite their personal obstacles.

The funny thing, I thought he died years ago.  :-[  It wasn't until a few years ago that I realized that he was indeed still alive.





Cat





;D  see that's what I said about Abe Vigoda in my famous people you were shocked to learn had died.

Well, short of playing pastor here, I will say that if there is a god (and that's a big if), I'm sure he/she/it will understand on a much higher level what went on in Turner's personal life and the reasons why these things went on. So leaving that possible judgement to that entity, if indeed it exists, I must say that Ike was a talented artist and he will be sorely missed by his fans.

He will also be unduly reviled among many of those who saw a certain movie and took it as the absolute truth instead of a dramatisation of it. I believe Ike was an ogrelike monster about as much as I believe that William Wallace had sex with Edward II's wife (which is what Braveheart would have you believe). Films are dramatisations, even those supposedly based on true stories. Ike was a guy with personal demons, but he wasn't a demon himself. If he beat Tina, it's her right to hate him, but that's no one else's business.

Well, short of playing pastor here, I will say that if there is a god (and that's a big if), I'm sure he/she/it will understand on a much higher level what went on in Turner's personal life and the reasons why these things went on. So leaving that possible judgement to that entity, if indeed it exists, I must say that Ike was a talented artist and he will be sorely missed by his fans.

He will also be unduly reviled among many of those who saw a certain movie and took it as the absolute truth instead of a dramatisation of it. I believe Ike was an ogrelike monster about as much as I believe that William Wallace had sex with Edward II's wife (which is what Braveheart would have you believe). Films are dramatisations, even those supposedly based on true stories. Ike was a guy with personal demons, but he wasn't a demon himself. If he beat Tina, it's her right to hate him, but that's no one else's business.


Agreed.

Now, if we could only remember this, when electing politicians....

Um Cat..... I just learned Mel Brooks is alive too...I thought he died about 5 years ago  :-[

Um Cat..... I just learned Mel Brooks is alive too...I thought he died about 5 years ago  :-[


Mel Brooks dying is as likely to happen as "Spaceballs: The Sequel". ;D

Having been in abusive relationships myself, I certainly can believe Tina's stories.

Yes, abuse can indeed screw one up mentally and emotionally.
However, one can get through it and make themselves stronger.

Tina showed us that.

However, Tina isn't the one to whom this thread is dedicated...Ike is.

So, Ike Turner- wherever you are, know that you are honored and reviled at the same time.
You have a achieved a most difficult state- may God grant you mercy, and may you suffer the indignity of the pain of your malevolent actions. Perhaps God may forgive you, but there are many who won't.



For all of your posts...couldn't have put it any better myself, Wayne.  This thread is for Ike, not Tina, but it's like they still go together.  However, even though I read cnn.com when his death was breaking news, I decided not to start this thread because of my ambivalent feelings toward him.  I'm not knocking his accomplishments, because they were many, but I have a hard time separating him from the man.  And like you, Wayne, having been in an abusive relationship, I have no trouble believing Tina's accounts.

I wish to pay my respects to a musical pioneer.  We have suffered the loss of a legend.

I don't in any way condone his alleged behavior, which is really shameful.

Drugs done did another one in!

Reported it was a cocaine OD...

Now why do many 'talented' people get caught in it,they die and we miss them, yet, Bin Laden,Saddam, and Castro-if they did any, they know not to overdo it...???? :-\\

Ike is still dead? ???

US soul legend Ike Turner, who died last month at the age of 76, was killed by a cocaine overdose, Californian coroners have established.

"We are listing that he abused cocaine and that's what resulted in the cocaine toxicity," said an official at the San Diego County medical examiner's office.

Cardiovascular disease and pulmonary emphysema were also given as "significant" factors in the death.

Turner's daughter Mia said she was shocked by the report.

The singer had waged an "ongoing struggle" with drugs, she said, but the coroner was "overstating the situation".

"Daddy at that point was not doing drugs to the level it leads to believe," she told the North County Times in a telephone interview.

^ the kids are always the last to admit.

i heard the report at 2AM...he also had other complications.
and he wanted the arch named after him!

some people really never think about their actions.
it's sad.