How would you compare spree-killers like Charles Starkweather, Charles Whitman, Richard Speck, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and now Cho Seung-Hui, to the aforementioned serial-killers (Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Son of Sam, BTK, etc.)? Obviously the methods and patterns of killing between the two groups are vastly different, but do you think there are any psychological similarities?


Actually, I can kinda answer this intelligently.

Spree-Killers, or "Thrill Killers" as they are dubbed by the media, are more into the thrill of what they view as "obliteration of the species", which is primarily an emotional response.

Serials, on the other hand, use more forethought and cunning.

IMO, the only real similarities, psychologically speaking, are that the killers tend to be motivated simultaneously by the anger/pain of abuse and the exhiliaration of release by causing death.


Dr. Phil said that he blamed violent video games and violent movies for creating mass murderers (and like Al said above me - while Mass Murderers and Serial Killers are two different things...) what my point is... Are there... like... similarities between alot of serial killers?  Past childhood abuse or something?  You might have already talked about this topic before (sorry if you did.)


Second question (hey you get two for the price of one) - Have you ever read either of these two books?

Questions and Answers About Murder by David Lester
or
Until You Are Dead: The Book of Executions in America by F. Drimmer 

I read them when I worked at the library and they are both good reads.  Thought provoking.


Hmmmm.......

First off- Dr. Phil may be brilliant in matters of family therapy, but in the realm of killers, he's a charlatan.
Having said that: It has been proven that serial killers all have quite a few common background factors, which include:
-Childhood trauma
-Violent abuse, usually physical or sexual
-Families where one parent was more domineering over the other
-A mental condition of some sort, usually secondary to the abuse/trauma suffered in childhood/adolescence

Examples- Ed Gein was in an Oedipal relationship with a VERY domineering mother.
Edmund Emil Kemper was often locked in a cellar or closet, until the age of 14.
Peter Kurten, the "Vampire of Dusseldorf", was beaten almost daily.

Not all serial killers were poor bumpkins off the farm, who were shunned by society.
Examples- Ted Bundy was a college student, working on a Law degree. Handsome, charismatic, charming.
John Wayne Gacy was considered a humanitarian, because in his guise of "Pogo the Clown", he entertained sick children.
Jack the Ripper, it turns out, was part of a British line of Nobility.

So, in some ways, yes. There are some common factors with serials.

As to the books- no, I don't believe so, but I'll look into them.

Have you read all of Ann Rule's crime books?



I love Ann Rule, I have read all her books. I was going to mention some of them to Hawk but then I seen it was already mentioned.

Not so much a question, but, I am starting to read this article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette about Duquense University students that corresponded with a serial killer and thought you and perhaps others that might not know about the article would be interested.

Here it is:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07350/841430-85.stm

Wow what a piece. I actually was the one who turned Hawk on to serial killers. I find their mindset very intriguing. What those University students are doing is invaluable. I feel that we need to be able to understand them to catch them. Thanks for showing us this article. I enjoyed it. I think that while they are imprisoned we need to learn as much as we can about them.

The only serial killer I have any knowledge about is Arthur Shawcross,who murdered 2 young children in 1972,went to prison for 15 years,and started killing prostitutes 1 year after getting out,he killed 11 in 2 years before getting caught masterbating at the crime scene
He also was into cannibalism.and claimed to be abused as a child.
So why do killers sometimes go back to the scene of the crime? Do they get a rush from this? do they think that they wont get caught?

The only serial killer I have any knowledge about is Arthur Shawcross,who murdered 2 young children in 1972,went to prison for 15 years,and started killing prostitutes 1 year after getting out,he killed 11 in 2 years before getting caught masterbating at the crime scene
He also was into cannibalism.and claimed to be abused as a child.
So why do killers sometimes go back to the scene of the crime? Do they get a rush from this? do they think that they wont get caught?


Most serial killers return to the scene of the crime. It helps them to relive the crime. Usually the crime is one of power and the memory of the power is what they are reliving. Genrally serial killers have a need to feel powerful because they genrally do not feel any power in their lives and the most obvious sign of complete power that a person has is to remove a persons life. They want to feel that power over and over, usually killers will take a memento from the crime to help relive it, but the source to where they feel the most powerful is at the scene. 

Most serial killers return to the scene of the crime. It helps them to relive the crime. Usually the crime is one of power and the memory of the power is what they are reliving. Genrally serial killers have a need to feel powerful because they genrally do not feel any power in their lives and the most obvious sign of complete power that a person has is to remove a persons life. They want to feel that power over and over, usually killers will take a memento from the crime to help relive it, but the source to where they feel the most powerful is at the scene. 

Most of this is true, except that in the case of cannibalistic killers, they have a nasty tendency to eat their trophies.
Example- Ed Gein kept body parts of some of his victims, and made furniture.
However, all anyone ever saw him eat was baked beans from the tin.
He used this to get invited into homes of potential victims- usually, women who resembled his mother.
When his house was raided, they found quite the supply of red meat.
One rumor, is that the Sheriff actually took a bite out of what he thought was deer meat. He threw up when Gein told him it was from Mary Hogan's thigh.

Have you seen / what did you think of the tv movie "To Catch A Killer" about John Wayne Gacy?

http://services.windowsmedia.com/dvdcover/cov150/drt000/t036/t03608sdgdp.jpg

When his house was raided, they found quite the supply of red meat.
One rumor, is that the Sheriff actually took a bite out of what he thought was deer meat. He threw up when Gein told him it was from Mary Hogan's thigh.


I'm really wondering how true that rumor was though, because when they do crime scene investigations, I really doubt that the investigators help themselves to what's in the fridge when they are hungry. 

Ever heard of Pomeroy?  I read a book about him recently and, since I am in Southie almost every week, I spent an hour or so tracing his steps.


www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/pomeroy/3.html

When you do read, don't stop at the first incarceration, that isn't the end of the story, in fact it is pretty much just the beginning.

Have you seen / what did you think of the tv movie "To Catch A Killer" about John Wayne Gacy?

http://services.windowsmedia.com/dvdcover/cov150/drt000/t036/t03608sdgdp.jpg


Not as of yet, but I will try to.
The one I did see starred Mark Holton, and he did a eerie job of portraying Gacy.http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/19/76/36m.jpg


I'm really wondering how true that rumor was though, because when they do crime scene investigations, I really doubt that the investigators help themselves to what's in the fridge when they are hungry. 


You have to remember, this was back in like 1955, in a small Wisconsin town. In those days, with small town Sheriffs, they had this unspoken rule that they could 'help themselves' to anything that wasn't  blatant Official Crime Scene evidence. I tend to lean more toward belief, myself.


Ever heard of Pomeroy?  I read a book about him recently and, since I am in Southie almost every week, I spent an hour or so tracing his steps.


www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/pomeroy/3.html

When you do read, don't stop at the first incarceration, that isn't the end of the story, in fact it is pretty much just the beginning.


Pomeroy is a name I am a bit familiar with.
However, I will read the article, to refresh myself.
-It is kinda freaky, isn't it, to be able to retrace the steps of a killer?

Not as of yet, but I will try to.
The one I did see starred Mark Holton, and he did a eerie job of portraying Gacy.http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/19/76/36m.jpg

You have to remember, this was back in like 1955, in a small Wisconsin town. In those days, with small town Sheriffs, they had this unspoken rule that they could 'help themselves' to anything that wasn't  blatant Official Crime Scene evidence. I tend to lean more toward belief, myself.

Pomeroy is a name I am a bit familiar with.
However, I will read the article, to refresh myself.
-It is kinda freaky, isn't it, to be able to retrace the steps of a killer?


Way, freaky.  Pomeroy was, as far as I know, the youngest mass murderer, and as you will read, the things he did to those kids was beyond comprehension.  All of it learned at home from an abusive father, which should be a caution to people who keep children in an abusive relationship trying to keep the family together.  He  also spent more time in solitary than any one person 40+ years in Charlestown Prison.  The prison isn't there anymore, but I remember when it was.  It is now the sight of Bunker Hill Community College. There is a bridge that was called  "Prison Point Bridge", they disneyed that to the Gilmore bridge, which is weird because that name evokes the name of another famous killer.

Do you know who Ottis Elwood Toole is? Hint: His most infamous crime (which may in fact have been committed by Milwaukee's infamous cannibal killer when he was in the area rather than by Ottis himself) spearheaded the launch of a true-crime show on a major US broadcast network. All I know is  that he was the alleged killer of "America's Most Wanted" host John Walsh's son in 1980 (the year I was born!), was never convicted, was allegedly gay, was the partner of Henry Lee Lucas and that he drove a black-and-white 1973 Cadillac. If anyone knows anything else, please respond.

Ottis was another killer who was abused as a child.  He went to prison for murder and died there.