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Subject: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: Tommy Turtle on 07/01/10 at 2:31 am
Considering, for a moment, the OSs regarded as "difficult" to parody:
(Looked only in the main grouping, not for every possible misspelling of TOS, performer, wrong decade, etc., so actual numbers are surely higher)
"American Pie" = 168 versions.
"The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" = 123 versions
"Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" = 106 versions.
All of these songs are *long*, for sure. *But* they all have a very regular structure, in terms of rhyme scheme, meter, line length, stanza length, etc.
Am Pie: Verses: Rhyme AABCCB, DDEEFFF(died). Chorus: XXXXXX (all rhyme with "pie") 6-8-6 or 6-4-4-6, if you like. Some internal rhyming indicated, which adds complexity.
TWOTEF: (Internally rhymed, though not always, and the end rhymes aren't always spot-on): AABCCB, repeated structure every line and verse, though with different rhymes. 4-4-4-etc all the way through.
Supercal: Chorus: AAAA (spoken: BB) Stanzas: CCCC or CCDD (or xCxCxCxC if you break up the lines into two shorter ones). 4-line chorus, 2 on the spoken, 4 or 8 on the stanzas. Consistent all the way through, though the Dick/Julie dialog, which not everyone includes, adds a little complexity.
OK, now let's look at Big 7 song, "Blinded By The Light". Choruses pretty consistent and rather repetitive in TOS (not in *our* parodies, of course!) Lines with same end-rhyme. But the verses are all over the map, different line lengths inside a single verse, different rhyme schemes, sometimes an internal rhyme to preceding end rhyme, sometimes no rhyme; an oddball line or two, or oddball verse or two thrown in.....
Results: a little over 30 versions, despite being a "required" Big 7. Having done all of the above, the first three multiple times each (including co-author), I daresay that BBTL was much more challenging. Anyone disagree?
OK, so here's the suggestion: Take a look at the full, seven-minute (uncut) version of "Total Eclipse Of The Heart", here. Same as BBTL: uneven line lengths, varied rhyme scheme, sometimes no rhyme, a number of different stanza structures. And long. :)
Result: only 28 versions, other than TT's first and second stabs at it.
And of those twenty-eight, six have "fart" in the title, the easy and obvious title switch. I would modestly suggest that this is every bit as difficult to parody as BBTL, and far more so than AP, Super, TWOTEF, etc.
Anyone care to tackle this beast?
And would you agree to add it to the Big 7, thence to become the Big 8? Talk about a test ....
Said first stab was a group tribute, and there are about 170 authors who've missed their plugs there. Some no longer active (or alive), of course, but if you had more than 40 posts by mid-February of this year, just thought you'd like to know -- which was *not* the purpose of this post at all. Don't vote or comment on it if you don't want to, of course.
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: agrimorfee on 07/01/10 at 7:57 am
Your post is an inspirer, TT...there are 31 parodies as of now. 8)
I doubt that anyone can best the quality of Stuart's "Totally Dissed Noah's Ark"
http://www.amiright.com/parody/80s/bonnietyler35.shtml
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: wildcard on 07/01/10 at 10:29 am
dktos probably not, besides I need to spend time training with my CI and see if I can get it to work for me.
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: EthanM on 07/01/10 at 2:33 pm
Total Eclipse of the Heart was a doozy, but doesn't compare to some of the rap parodies that I've done.
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: ChuckyG on 07/01/10 at 7:52 pm
A little refresher: http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=24345.0
The absolute lack of any rap in there does concern me. Rap can be really tough to parody (or really easy). Sugar Hill Gang's "Rappers Delight" is pretty freakin' long for example. It's also been done a sum total of THREE times on the site, twice by the same person. Only once in it's entirety which is a shame because it's considered an essential hip hop tune.
Maybe what we should do is propose another medal in addition to the Big 7, call it the Tough 8, and pick the ones even harder than the original 7 to do. I think the Big 7 weren't really meant to be the hardest, it was a mix of super hard and super popular.
I should also put something next to the author names on amIright when people obtain these medals as well. Shouldn't be too hard, just need to make some time and do it. At the very least I could build a seperate list (that would be quicker and easier of course).
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: Below Average Dave on 07/01/10 at 8:50 pm
The Epic 40 contains quite a few suggestions for this one. . .
Stan by Eminem
Work It by Missy Elliot
Semi Charmed Life by Third Eye Blind
OPP by Naughty by Nature
Curbside Prophet by Jason Mraz
Hardware Store by Weird Al Yankovic
. . .the list goes on, the Epic 40 has yet to be completed by anyone (though both me and Matt have one song left of it, Work It for me, Stan for Matt)
http://www.amiright.com/parody/80s/bonnietyler40.shtml
I did Total Eclipse of the Heart. . .I love that song
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: Red Ant on 07/01/10 at 9:33 pm
I'll pass on "Total Eclipse of the Heart"
a) because I hate the song (was going to do "Totally Sh*t On This Song" as a title)
b) don't have much time these days to write and
c) it's impossible to top this parody for humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj-x9ygQEGA
Ant
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: agrimorfee on 07/06/10 at 2:46 pm
Maybe what we should do is propose another medal in addition to the Big 7, call it the Tough 8, and pick the ones even harder than the original 7 to do. I think the Big 7 weren't really meant to be the hardest, it was a mix of super hard and super popular.
I should also put something next to the author names on amIright when people obtain these medals as well. Shouldn't be too hard, just need to make some time and do it. At the very least I could build a seperate list (that would be quicker and easier of course).
First suggestion, and forgive my immodesty, but I dare anyone to do Squeeze Me Macaroni and live to tell the tale.
http://www.last.fm/music/Mr.+Bungle/_/Squeeze+Me+Macaroni
http://www.amiright.com/parody/90s/mrbungle16.shtml
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: wildcard on 07/06/10 at 10:28 pm
^ and what will you give me if I do
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: philbo on 07/07/10 at 10:38 am
The "Big 7" has always been a little arbitrary - some are not so big, and definitely not so difficult as others (BBTL is the only one I've not done multiple times, partly because the right sort of inspiration hasn't struck, but also because the OS is so all over the place, it's hard to make a parody coherent), yet the problem with going to a "Big 8" is the number of possible eighth songs is huge. Total Eclipse of the Heart is kind of fun, but I don't see why it deserves to be singled out to add to the existing lot... just done it the once (nearly five years ago.. scary).
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: Tommy Turtle on 07/17/10 at 11:54 pm
snip... (BBTL is the only one I've not done multiple times, ... because the OS is so all over the place, it's hard to make a parody coherent), <snip>
Exactly. (Only one try myself, and that on a dare from Stu McA plus the B7 designation.) And so is TEOTH, which is why I thought it was difficult enough to be worthy of the Big designation.
It's easy to see that opening this can of worms could lead to a "Big 200", etc. IMHO, some degree of popularity should be *a* criterion, or at least, a minimum threshold to meet before even being considered. I'm not one to judge that, having pretty much fallen off the musical planet somewhere in the seventies, though it's interesting and significant how many modern groups remake the oldies - proof that some of them were classic.
Quick example, picked at random: "Everlasting Love", big 1967 hit for Robert Knight, covered in every decade since for a total of well over 30 covers, several times charting in the Top 10 or Top 40 for the covers, a notable example being Gloria Estefan in 1995. Stll going strong: Last (known to moi only via Wikipedia) done in 2009 by Charlotte Perrelli. So readers of all eras and ages have a good chance to be familiar with it.
And although Dusty Springfield became practically identified with "I Only Want To Be With You" (1963), Susanna Viljanen's very nice spins on it credit the 1976 Bay City Rollers, and there have been about two dozen more covers, right up into the 2000s. OK, it too has a wide audience.
Back on topic: Most parodists, except perhaps a few of the very youngest generation, are familiar with most of the biggies. AP, TWOTEF, MacArthur Park (considered atrocious by some, but still well known), Supercal, (never saw the movie, so made some pacing glitches in noob stabs; thanks to Kristof Robertson for pointing them out, so that later stabs scanned better), Fave Things, etc. BBTL was one I DK, and never listened to, so worked from Spaff's version for pacing and stress, figuring I could trust that. Same with Maj-Gen -- never actually heard TOS played, though of course familiar with G&S and their most famous titles, but good, trustworthy writers were a pacing guide.
I'd never even heard of "Bohemian Rhapsody", nor of the band, "Queen", so when Michael Pacholek pointed out that it was the only one of the B7 (the list, not the chord :-) that TT hadn't done, I *truly* thought he was referring to the "Hungarian Rhapsodies" by Franz Lizst in the mid-late 1800s. Classic in the true sense, though I didn't see how they would be on anyone's parody lizst. (heh, heh!).
Did it from Web lyrics, without caring to hear it -- always dangerous -- and though mostly well-received, a few readers noted a couple of pacing glitches, and I'm sure that they were correct -- no complaint here; written lyrics don't always make the scansion obvious.
ANY-way, IMHO, any additions to the B7 should have charted reasonably well, and be known to as wide an audience as possible. I doubt anyone has covered, or will cover, AP -- they should be strung up by their thumbs if they do -- but in general, songs that were hugely poplular across the Anglophone world, or covered over several decades, will be the most known to the most writers. Which also helps readers vote and comment -- not everyone has time to listen repeatedly to YouTube or whatever, to check for any pacing glitches, nor cares to hear some types of music.
I confess to enjoying occasional parodying of rather obscure songs, especially if I think they were underrated and underplayed at the time. "Sally Go 'Round The Roses" comes to mind -- only recently became aware that there was/is considerable controversy over the meaning, with alleged lesbian undertones. I'm certain that when I heard the original, I'd never even *heard* the word "lesbian", much less had any idea what it meant. :wink: .... But I'd never suggest that such songs be on any "must do" list.
Concluding, the list needs to be kept small, and to widely-known and -performed OS. I do stand by the original suggestion that "Total Eclipse Of The Heart" should be considered: Aside from the reasons in the OP, it charted #1 in the US, UK, Canada, and Australia, has been covered many times (in many different languages, actually), used in movies, etc., performed on American Idol. etc. ... The full 7-minute version, please, not the edited four-and-a-half minute radio version that removes the entire third verse and trims the extended fade-out ending. (Just as it "doesn't really count" if you do the three-minute version of APie.) Hey, if this 1983 hit is known to the turtle who went underwater a decade earlier ... (smile)
IMHO, the "required" list -- especially if there's to be any recognition -- shouldn't get much bigger, maybe ten at the most, though I think very few others meet both the recognition and the length/difficulty tests. The songs mentioned by some of the posters here sound too obscure.
There could be one Big list, of a single-digit number, and a second, larger list of whatever double-digit number is decided (100, like the Billboard chart?), though not so much emphasis or recognition on the second, just an "if you want to". Asking newer writers (or *any* writer) to write 100 parodies of *any* hundred songs is rather daunting, especially since the larger the list, the smaller the number of writers (and readers) who know all of them, and it's hard to see that many meeting the above criteria. YMMV.
p. s. I'd like to apologize to Ethan Mawyer for my rather sarcastic reply, which appears to have been quite properly deleted. I *still* don't consider most Rap to be music, but rather, poetry -- and often, quite intricate poetry. And talk about living in a glass house and throwing stones -- I've parodied poetry many times myself, most often Shakespeare (usually Hamlet's famous soliloquy, but also Lord Polonius' advice to his son, and also done one of WS's many Sonnets), but also Emma Lazarus' sonnet that is inscribed on the inside of the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. I'm sorry, Ethan.
p. p. s. WARNING: SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTION FOLLOWS. READER DISCRETION ADVISED.
Speaking of Big 7 and Am Pie, I'm presently working on an APie that I hope will have the highest percentage of syllable-matching of any AP ever. (Comparisons welcomed.) Hope to post sometime this week, depending on work, play, inspiration, etc. ... Not everyone puts as high a priority on syl-match as yours truly, and we each have our favorites among our own lines, but FWIW (zero, lol), to moi, the best single line this writer ever wrote was in "A Shepherd Am I", where the protagonist goes to a "ranch of ill repute" to get some ovine action,
"But the man there said the ewe's sick; wouldn't play"
Only *one* phoneme (sound) changed, dropping the "m" sound from "music", and it does a Shaun-White-worthy 1260-degree twist (with two flips) to the original meaning. No one saw fit to comment on it, so clearly, everyone's mileage varies. Oh, well, MHO only. Cheers.
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: philbo on 07/18/10 at 4:35 am
Exactly. (Only one try myself, and that on a dare from Stu McA plus the B7 designation.) And so is TEOTH, which is why I thought it was difficult enough to be worthy of the Big designation.
There's plenty more, though.. incidentally, when the "Big 7" was first mooted, I'd never listened to either TWOTEF or BBTL - I'd not even heard of the former (my guess is that it never really made it outside the US)
And although Dusty Springfield became practically identified with "I Only Want To Be With You" (1963), Susanna Viljanen's very nice spins on it credit the 1976 Bay City Rollers, and there have been about two dozen more covers, right up into the 2000s. OK, it too has a wide audience.
It was The Tourists (with a staggeringly long-haired Annie Lennox) who took that one to No1 when I was at school, so that's the version I most relate to (didn't even know the Bay City Rollers did a cover)
I'd never even heard of "Bohemian Rhapsody", nor of the band, "Queen",
You have my deepest sympathy: Queen were one of the all-time greats (until Freddie died.. but on the bright side, at least Brian May finally finished his PhD) - if your knowledge of Queen songs is still limited to Bo Rap, go out and buy another couple of dozen albums. :)
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: Tommy Turtle on 07/18/10 at 5:21 pm
if your knowledge of Queen songs is still limited to Bo Rap, go out and buy another couple of dozen albums. :)
I'd never even heard of "Bohemian Rhapsody", nor of the band, "Queen"
OK, now I've heard *of* them (still haven't *heard* any of their songs), but based on the one song that was a "must-do", I'll pass on seeing any more, much less spending money to buy "another couple of dozen albums". (I never bought the first dozen, or even the first *one*, so how could "another couple of dozen" be bought?) But thanks for the suggestion.
You have my deepest sympathy: Queen were one of the all-time greats
As noted above, everyone's mileage varies. ;)
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: agrimorfee on 07/20/10 at 8:14 am
Tommy, get Greatest Hits Vol 1., or A Night At The Opera. That's all the Queen you will ever need. :)
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: EthanM on 07/21/10 at 11:22 pm
Exactly. (Only one try myself, and that on a dare from Stu McA plus the B7 designation.) And so is TEOTH, which is why I thought it was difficult enough to be worthy of the Big designation.
I confess to enjoying occasional parodying of rather obscure songs, especially if I think they were underrated and underplayed at the time. "Sally Go 'Round The Roses" comes to mind -- only recently became aware that there was/is considerable controversy over the meaning, with alleged lesbian undertones. I'm certain that when I heard the original, I'd never even *heard* the word "lesbian", much less had any idea what it meant. :wink: .... But I'd never suggest that such songs be on any "must do" list.
p. s. I'd like to apologize to Ethan Mawyer for my rather sarcastic reply, which appears to have been quite properly deleted. I *still* don't consider most Rap to be music, but rather, poetry -- and often, quite intricate poetry. And talk about living in a glass house and throwing stones -- I've parodied poetry many times myself, most often Shakespeare (usually Hamlet's famous soliloquy, but also Lord Polonius' advice to his son, and also done one of WS's many Sonnets), but also Emma Lazarus' sonnet that is inscribed on the inside of the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. I'm sorry, Ethan.
I missed the "sarcastic reply", so no harm done, but now I'm curious. Anyway, the best defense in my opinion of what makes rap a worthy parody target is the sheer popularity of the genre. It seems like the vast majority of parodies that make an impact outside of amiright are parodies of recent smash hits, and if you look at the Billboard charts you will see that a very big percentage of the hit singles near the top are in the rap genre. The most successful rappers probably fit the stereotype of a rock star these days much more than the most successful rock acts. A lot of rap songs also have musical hooks that tend to be extremely catchy.
I did a poem parody once too. Paul Revere's Ride. Wasn't easy, but not as difficult as a lot of people seemed to think. Most Eminem songs are harder, and Jay-Z songs, and the list goes on and on.
Subject: Re: Should the "Big 7" become the "Big 8"?
Written By: philbo on 08/01/10 at 7:22 am
Tommy, get Greatest Hits Vol 1., or A Night At The Opera. That's all the Queen you will ever need. :)
Depends on what kind of music you like - the reason I like Queen as much as I do is the fantastic variety of styles. If you only get one album, you're going to miss so much. Though Night at the Opera is one of my favourites :)
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