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OR

http://www.waltwhitman69.com/000/3/0/9/3903/userfiles/Image/1969Logo.jpg

Share your opinion.

What is your definition of 'late 60s'?

What is your definition of 'late 60s'?

This thread is about what you define as the late '60s. That's why I asked which year do YOU think is the peak of the late 1960s between 1968 and 1969.

April 1968 (MLK Assassination) - Summer 1969 (Summer of Love) was the peak

April 1968 (MLK Assassination) - Summer 1969 (Summer of Love) was the peak

Can't do a span. It has to be one year over the other.

That's a tough one! ???  I'm not trying to cop out (to use the parlance of the time) but it's like they were BOTH peak years. This is an unusual occurrence, but, speaking as someone who was around then, that's the way the 60s were. None of the usual rules apply. Trust me on this.

I'd say 1968 really with the MLK and Bobby Kennedy assassinations and it was the worst year of Vietnam I believe. Of course both are really very late '60s, but I'd say 1968 slightly more so since you ask to pick one or the other. One could argue that Nixon actually being president in 1969 gives it a slight early '70s connection that 1968 didn't have.

I feel like 1968 was the peak of the entire '60s, almost. Like, what year is more '60s than 1968?

But 1969 is still very '60s, it's the culmination of everything '60s and a nice, clean bookend.

But 1969 is still very '60s, it's the culmination of everything '60s and a nice, clean bookend.


Not quite a nice clean bookend. The cultural 60s did not end in 1969. It's been discussed on other threads here, but my personal estimation is that the 60s ended at the end of 1972. Some people vary on when they think the cultural 60s ended, but most will agree the 60s went past 1969. 1970 was most certainly part of the cultural 60s, though not a peak year. And don't believe lazy writers and commentators who say that the Rolling Stones Altamont debacle put an end to the 60s in December 1969. That's simply a cliche at this point. The 60s, in a bit of a washed out way, went marching right on into 1970 and 1971, finally coming to a close at the end of 1972. No one particular event ended the 60s there, they just  sort of petered out. The end of a most glorious time, for all its staggering ups and downs.

1968 had the assassinations of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert Kennedy. It also had the Tet Offense. And then there was the Fair Housing Act of 1968.

Such a crazy year!  8)  8)

1968 had the assassinations of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert Kennedy. It also had the Tet Offense. And then there was the Fair Housing Act of 1968.

Such a crazy year!  8)  8)

Yep but even that is an understatement :P.

Not quite a nice clean bookend. The cultural 60s did not end in 1969. It's been discussed on other threads here, but my personal estimation is that the 60s ended at the end of 1972. Some people vary on when they think the cultural 60s ended, but most will agree the 60s went past 1969. 1970 was most certainly part of the cultural 60s, though not a peak year. And don't believe lazy writers and commentators who say that the Rolling Stones Altamont debacle put an end to the 60s in December 1969. That's simply a cliche at this point. The 60s, in a bit of a washed out way, went marching right on into 1970 and 1971, finally coming to a close at the end of 1972. No one particular event ended the 60s there, they just  sort of petered out. The end of a most glorious time, for all its staggering ups and downs.


I always wanted to ask someone who lived during the 60's and 70's this. When did the 60's begin, culturally? Most people give 1964, or 1965.

Yep but even that is an understatement :P.


1969 also had the Moon landing and Woodstock. Also, the Manson murders, and the Stonewall riots.
Although, Manson is starting to get kinda 70s, in a sense.

I always wanted to ask someone who lived during the 60's and 70's this. When did the 60's begin, culturally? Most people give 1964, or 1965.


I think a lot would say when JFK was assassinated. My parents both remember it and say that was very important.

I always wanted to ask someone who lived during the 60's and 70's this. When did the 60's begin, culturally? Most people give 1964, or 1965.


As someone who was most assuredly alive then, I go with the general consensus on this one. The 60s began in earnest with the Beatles first appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show on February 9, 1964. And all this had been lead up to since JFK's assassination on November 22, 1963. America, and the world, were READY. So it's 1964. The 60s, as we know them, were well underway by 1965.

I think a lot would say when JFK was assassinated. My parents both remember it and say that was very important.


I've heard that too. I'd say the majority of people say 1963 to 1965. But I hear more 1964 and 1965. I pretty don't ever hear 1962, or 1966!

My dad has told me he remembers watching The Beatles on Ed Sullivan, I really envy that.

I think a lot would say when JFK was assassinated. My parents both remember it and say that was very important.


You BET it was important!

You BET it was important!


Yeah I know, my mom is actually Croatian and was still there at that time. And she remembers exactly what she was doing that day and she wasn't even American and all the way over in Croatia! So it was definitely a very very big moment in history.

I was born over 30 years after 1968 and 1969 (born in 1999) but my mother has memories from those years. She turned 5 in 1968 and 6 in 1969 :P.


Yeah I know, my mom is actually Croatian and was still there at that time. And she remembers exactly what she was doing that day and she wasn't even American and all the way over in Croatia! So it was definitely a very very big moment in history.

My mother was only an almost 6 month old baby when JFK was assassinated.

As someone who was most assuredly alive then, I go with the general consensus on this one. The 60s began in earnest with the Beatles first appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show on February 9, 1964. And all this had been lead up to since JFK's assassination on November 22, 1963. America, and the world, were READY. So it's 1964. The 60s, as we know them, were well underway by 1965.


Yes but in 1964, certain things associated with the 60's such as US involvement in Vietnam, psychedelia, long straight hair, hard rock, opposition to civil rights activism and hippies were not around yet.

1965 saw the ascent of all these things, although none of it peaked until 1967.

Also important, is that a lot of the Beatles work is different from pre-1965, a lot of their early music from 1963-1964 seems stale compared to their later stuff, they really reached their creative peak by '65 when they released Rubber Soul.

Yes but in 1964, certain things associated with the 60's such as US involvement in Vietnam, psychedelia, long straight hair, hard rock, opposition to civil rights activism and hippies were not around yet.

1965 saw the ascent of all these things, although none of it peaked until 1967.

Also important, is that a lot of the Beatles work is different from pre-1965, in their early days of 1963-1964 a lot of their music were just simple love songs, but they really reached their creative peak by '65 when they released Rubber Soul.


Those are good points,, but they are almost moot.  Just because a cultural decade begins at a certain point, it doesn't mean it stays exactly that way until the end of the cultural decade. The seeds of all the 60s became were sown right at that precise JFK assassination/Beatles Ed Sullivan axis. If that hadn't happened exactly when it did, the 60s as we know them might have turned out very differently indeed. Within the parameters of the cultural decade (for the sake of argument I am saying 1964-1972) there will be many changes, but the cultural decade has to start somewhere, and in the case of the 60s it was the JFK/Beatles axis. It then evolved from there. Hence the question of this post as to what the peak year of the late 60s was.

In my opinion, the 60s pretty much began culturally more around 1963, not 1964 and especially not 1965, over halfway through the entire decade. Sure, the whole 60s zeitgeist wasn't really in full force yet in 1963, but that year was roughly the first time you could truly distinguish the present culture from the late 1950s. Like I brought up in another thread, the fashion of 1963 was already quite 60s, and a decent amount of music also sounded progressed over the 50s. First you had pop and soul classics like "Heatwave," "It's Alright," and "It's My Party," then you had the surf rock craze (based on 50s rock and roll, but still exclusively a 60s movement), the breakthrough of beat music in the UK, and even some socially conscious folk music with Bob Dylan's second album, Peter, Paul & Mary; and the ilk. The spy genre had also become very popular in media, with Dr. No having been released the previous year, The Avengers being well into its run, and The Pink Panther hitting theaters that year. Even sociopolitically, things like the March on Washington and JFK as President are pretty identifiably 60s. 1963 may not be the same, stereotypical hippie counterculture 60s associated with the end of the decade, but it stipl has enough of an identity to be distinct from the 50s and count as a culturally 60s year.

In my opinion, the 60s pretty much began culturally more around 1963, not 1964 and especially not 1965, over halfway through the entire decade. Sure, the whole 60s zeitgeist wasn't really in full force yet in 1963, but that year was roughly the first time you could truly distinguish the present culture from the late 1950s. Like I brought up in another thread, the fashion of 1963 was already quite 60s, and a decent amount of music also sounded progressed over the 50s. First you had pop and soul classics like "Heatwave," "It's Alright," and "It's My Party," then you had the surf rock craze (based on 50s rock and roll, but still exclusively a 60s movement), the breakthrough of beat music in the UK, and even some socially conscious folk music with Bob Dylan's second album, Peter, Paul & Mary; and the ilk. The spy genre had also become very popular in media, with Dr. No having been released the previous year, The Avengers being well into its run, and The Pink Panther hitting theaters that year. Even sociopolitically, things like the March on Washington and JFK as President are pretty identifiably 60s. 1963 may not be the same, stereotypical hippie counterculture 60s associated with the end of the decade, but it stipl has enough of an identity to be distinct from the 50s and count as a culturally 60s year.


In many ways though, a lot of the things associated with the 60's all have their roots in the 50's, civil rights really started in 1955 with the bus boycott, Vietnam also began that year, beatniks were the predecessor of the hippie and the anti-establishment likely wouldn't have happened without the rock and roll movement the previous decade.

In many ways though, a lot of the things associated with the 60's all have their roots in the 50's, civil rights really started in 1955 with the bus boycott, Vietnam also began that year, beatniks were the predecessor of the hippie and the anti-establishment likely wouldn't have happened without the rock and roll movement the previous decade.

While that is true...the war was originally just a civil war. However, the war didn't get much international attention nor became the war that we know today until the United States got involved in 1965. Then, it became an international battle of ideologies and not just a civil war.

I think 1963 was kind of a transitional year and then 1964 saw the 60's come in in full force. I 'd say out of those two I'd go with 1968 but what about 1967? was that a late 60's year?

I think 1963 was kind of a transitional year and then 1964 saw the 60's come in in full force. I 'd say out of those two I'd go with 1968 but what about 1967? was that a late 60's year?

Yes, 1967 was apart of the late '60s. It's generally agreed that any year ending with 7, 8 and 9 are the late parts of each decade.

I think 1963 was kind of a transitional year and then 1964 saw the 60's come in in full force. I 'd say out of those two I'd go with 1968 but what about 1967? was that a late 60's year?


It was late 60s, but like most years ending in 7, it had plentiful mid-decade influences, as well. It was before the Tet Offensive, MLK + RFK assassinations, the introduction of the Hollywood rating system, and LBJ declining to run for reelection. Despite seeing the release of the first two Jimi Hendrix and Doors albums and The Beatles Sgt. Pepper's, there were still a lot of songs that were much more stylistically mid-60s and could have easily come out in 1964, like "Can't Take My Eyes Off You," "Somebody To Love," and "The Letter." The counterculture, while definitely prominent in 1967, wasn't as dominant yet as it would be in 1969.

I actually consider 1967 to be the quintessential year of the 60s decade in general because while it was undoubtedly a monumental year for hippie/psychedelic/counterculture trends, it still retained much of the classic fashion, television, musical techniques, and aesthetics that prevailed during the second third of the decade, as well. In many ways, fashion, music, and film were trending rather heavily towards the 70s during 1968 and 1969, thanks to hippie fashion sort of softening into 70s style trends, funk influences found in songs like "Soulful Strut" and "Who's Making Love" blossoming into the norm during the 70s, and of course, the aforementioned MPAA rating system, which dramatically changed the consumption of cinema.

There were still a lot of songs that were much more stylistically mid-60s and could have easily come out in 1964, like "Can't Take My Eyes Off You," "Somebody To Love," and "The Letter." The counterculture, while definitely prominent in 1967, wasn't as dominant yet as it would be in 1969.


Nah I wouldn't say "Somebody To Love" sounds mid 60's, it's psychedelic hard rock and thus fits much more with the late 60's.


In many ways, fashion, music, and film were trending rather heavily towards the 70s during 1968 and 1969, thanks to hippie fashion sort of softening into 70s style trends, funk influences found in songs like "Soulful Strut" and "Who's Making Love" blossoming into the norm during the 70s, and of course, the aforementioned MPAA rating system, which dramatically changed the consumption of cinema.


How was fashion trending more to the 70's in 1968-1969?

Nah I wouldn't say "Somebody To Love" sounds mid 60's, it's psychedelic hard rock and thus fits much more with the late 60's.

How is "Somebody to Love" psychedelic?  It just has basic, convicted lyrics about isolation and the need for romance, a pretty simplistic structure, a fast, pounding beat; and guitars that don't stray far from what was popular at the start of the British Invasion. Stylistically, it's not especially different from stuff like "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction," "She's Not There," "Oh, Pretty Woman," or even "I Want to Hold Your Hand." Now "White Rabbit," on the other hand, is absolutely a psychedelic rock song and one of the movement's definitive examples.

How was fashion trending more to the 70's in 1968-1969?


It wasn't entirely there yet, but in general it was much hairier, earthier, and shaggier than the shinier, more rounded, bowl-cut fashions that I primarily associate with the 1960s.

It wasn't entirely there yet, but in general it was much hairier, earthier, and shaggier than the shinier, more rounded, bowl-cut fashions that I primarily associate with the 1960s.


Another thing about the 60's, do you know much about the mod culture? It was most prominent between 1965-1966 in Britain. But was it ever popular in the US?

Another thing about the 60's, do you know much about the mod culture? It was most prominent between 1965-1966 in Britain. But was it ever popular in the US?


Yeah, it was part of the swinging sixties culture and thrived particularly in London. The Kinks released a song all about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA5gJ0hZpCc

Funny thing is, I originally thought the song was based around the life of a homosexual man, especially since the Kinks are no stranger to outlandish characterizations for their time ("Lola" and "Apeman," anyone?), but I guess men in London were just huge dandies in the mid-60s.

Not sure if mod culture was as big a deal in the United States, but it still influenced fashion, regardless.

So is the peak both 1968 and 1969?  ???

So is the peak both 1968 and 1969?  ???

I told tell them to pick one (either 1968 or 1969). Instead, they are talking about a whole bunch of other things about the '60s ;D.

So is the peak both 1968 and 1969?  ???


Yes! I think it's a pretty clear consensus that the peak YEAR of the cultural 60s was 1968 AND 1969. This makes perfect sense to me.


I told tell them to pick one (either 1968 or 1969). Instead, they are talking about a whole bunch of other things about the '60s ;D.


The peak year of the 60s may well have been 1968 and 1969 but most other years are notable and important for many things as well. This is how the 60s were. Never a dull moment!

Yes! I think it's a pretty clear consensus that the peak YEAR of the cultural 60s was 1968 AND 1969. This makes perfect sense to me.


The peak year of the 60s may well have been 1968 and 1969 but most other years are notable and important for many things as well. This is how the 60s were. Never a dull moment!

But you can make that statement for most decades.

But you can make that statement for most decades.


Yes, but there is a certain indelible "something" about the 60s. Did you ever notice by the way, that people seem to default to a 60s terminology, mentality or definition of things frequently, even though it's not really fitting? For instance, when the Occupy Wall Street situation was going on a few years back, there were editorials and media comments about "those hippies" who were protesting. Hippies! As if the Wall Street protesters had stepped out of a time machine intact from 1969. They were anything but "hippies".

Yes! I think it's a pretty clear consensus that the peak YEAR of the cultural 60s was 1968 AND 1969. This makes perfect sense to me.

The 60s as a whole? I can understand making that case for 1968, but 1969 is far too advanced and full of incoming early 70s inlfuences to really represent the mid-60s in addition to the late 60s. Richard Nixon was President of the United States, while Brezhnev was the Soviet Premier. The movie rating system was in full effect. Led Zeppelin released their first two albums, and stylistically early 70s songs such as "Soulful Strut," "Space Oddity," and "It's Your Thing" were big hits that year. Shows like Scooby Doo, The Brady Bunch, and Monty Python's Flying Circus debuted on television while older classics like Batman, Star Trek, Gilligan's Island, etc. were off the air. The hippie counterculture may have been a primary part of the 1960s, but we should act like the earlier parts of the decade never happened, nor should be ignore the more conventional culture that the decade produced, just as it's ridiculous to simplify a decade as complex as the 1990s to just grunge. A year like 1967 is nearly just as definitive to the late 60s psychedelic culture as 1969, but instead of all the incoming ties to the early 1970s I listed above, the late 60s culture in 1967 was instead balanced out by trends more associated with the core of the decade.

The peak year of the 60s may well have been 1968 and 1969 but most other years are notable and important for many things as well. This is how the 60s were. Never a dull moment!


Which is exactly why it doesn't make sense to refer to the very end of the decade as its quintessential year instead of a year that represents just about everything about it like 1967 does.

I told tell them to pick one (either 1968 or 1969). Instead, they are talking about a whole bunch of other things about the '60s ;D.


;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

There's a difference between 'peak of the late 60's',and 'peak of the 60's as a whole', and 'most eventful cultural 60's year'.

The 60s as a whole? I can understand making that case for 1968, but 1969 is far too advanced and full of incoming early 70s inlfuences to really represent the mid-60s in addition to the late 60s. Richard Nixon was President of the United States, while Brezhnev was the Soviet Premier. The movie rating system was in full effect. Led Zeppelin released their first two albums, and stylistically early 70s songs such as "Soulful Strut," "Space Oddity," and "It's Your Thing" were big hits that year. Shows like Scooby Doo, The Brady Bunch, and Monty Python's Flying Circus debuted on television while older classics like Batman, Star Trek, Gilligan's Island, etc. were off the air. The hippie counterculture may have been a primary part of the 1960s, but we should act like the earlier parts of the decade never happened, nor should be ignore the more conventional culture that the decade produced, just as it's ridiculous to simplify a decade as complex as the 1990s to just grunge. A year like 1967 is nearly just as definitive to the late 60s psychedelic culture as 1969, but instead of all the incoming ties to the early 1970s I listed above, the late 60s culture in 1967 was instead balanced out by trends more associated with the core of the decade.


There was a lot of other 70s culture in 1969 too, like the Jackson 5, Sesame Street, and Sly Stone. You also had a funk song that was really popular throughout the year called "Can't Get Next To You", it almost sounds like disco.


Shows like Scooby Doo, The Brady Bunch, and Monty Python's Flying Circus debuted on television


Scooby doo? I always thought that was a typical 60s thing.

There was a lot of other 70s culture in 1969 too, like the Jackson 5, Sesame Street, and Sly Stone. You also had a funk song that was really popular throughout the year called "Can't Get Next To You", it almost sounds like disco.

Scooby doo? I always thought that was a typical 60s thing.


Most people I know connect it to the 1970's.  :o

Scooby doo? I always thought that was a typical 60s thing.

Scooby-Doo, Where Are You! (The original Scooby Doo series) premiered on September 13, 1969.

Also, most people associate the original Scooby Doo with the 1970s.

Scooby doo? I always thought that was a typical 60s thing.


You might think that because of how the show itself is based on a group of '60s teenagers.

There was a lot of other 70s culture in 1969 too, like the Jackson 5, Sesame Street, and Sly Stone. You also had a funk song that was really popular throughout the year called "Can't Get Next To You", it almost sounds like disco.

Well, even though "I Want You Back" was technically released in 1969, the Jackson 5 weren't truly dominating the charts until the beginning of 1970. Sly and the Family Stone aren't really a distinctly 70s group either, since they put out "Dance to the Music" in 1968 and for the most part still sounded pretty typically late 60s before There's a Riot Goin' On. I do think "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)" sounds extremely 70s, but like "I Want You Back," it was really popular mostly in early 1970, not late 1969.

"I Can't Get Next To You" is kind of transitional, but I would say it actually leans more towards the 60s because even though it's prominently funky, it's a lot more intense and fast-paced than your typical early 70s funk jams, which "Soulful Strut" and "It's Your Thing" alluded to more. It's also actually fairly similar to "(I Know) I'm Losing You," which was released in late 1966. Besides, the Temptations as a whole are most emblematic of the 60s; I would say "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" is a much clearer example of 70s-style music that almost sounds like disco.

Whatever the case, my point is that even though the 70s influences were still fairly limited in 1969, they were prominent enough that they prevent the year from being a proper representation of the 1960s as a whole, despite the fact that the counterculture peaked.

Scooby doo? I always thought that was a typical 60s thing.

Scooby-Doo, Where Are You! was only on television from 1969 to 1970, but the franchise had several spin-offs that remained quite popular throughout the 70s, a decade that otherwise had extremely few enduring icons in animation that weren't singing about elementary school subjects outside of traditional tv blocs.

Scooby-Doo, Where Are You! was only on television from 1969 to 1970, but the franchise had several spin-offs that remained quite popular throughout the 70s, a decade that otherwise had extremely few enduring icons in animation that weren't singing about elementary school subjects outside of traditional tv blocs.

THIS!

Rooby Loo, where is pooh?  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRmHFTuzK-AKhQD_1tgD5w3pI_zSKMdmViPdoy5shWzgk6n3wHF

I would have loved to have been in college in the mid to late 60's!  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)

I would have loved to have been in college in the mid to late 60's!  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)

That would have been too crazy of a time for me to be in college then.

That would have been too crazy of a time for me to be in college then.


I wouldn't have done drugs. I'm too much of a control freak.  :-X  :-X  :D

I would have loved the music, atmosphere, and movies, of that era.

I wouldn't have done drugs. I'm too much of a control freak.  :-X  :-X  :D

I would have loved the music, atmosphere, and movies, of that era.

The music and movies would have been just OK to me. The atmosphere would be too crazy.

The #1 song of 1968, according to the Billboard Year-End Hot 100 singles of 1968 is:

A_MjCqQoLLA


The #1 song of 1969, according to the Billboard Year-End Hot 100 singles of 1969 is:

h9nE2spOw_o

Which song represents the late '60s the best to you? :P

The music and movies would have been just OK to me. The atmosphere would be too crazy.


I take that back about movies. I thought they were 'just okay'. Music was great though!  :D

I take that back about movies. I thought they were 'just okay'. Music was great though!  :D


The music was the best! Imagine going to a concert of one of those music legends.  :D

The music was the best! Imagine going to a concert of one of those music legends.  :D


Music from 1964 to 1984 is kind of hard to beat!  :P

Classic and psychedelic rock isn't really my thing. Yeah, there are few songs from those genres that I like or find to be decent but it's still just not "my cup of tea".

I would rather be a young person in 1963 with surf rock being popular and having a more chill life than being in 1968 and having to worry about getting drafted and sent to Vietnam while having psychedelic rock be the soundtrack to my worries.

Classic and psychedelic rock isn't really my thing. Yeah, there are few songs from those genres that I like or find to be decent but it's still just not "my cup of tea".

I would rather be a young person in 1963 with surf rock being popular and having a more chill life than being in 1968 and having to worry about getting drafted and sent to Vietnam while having psychedelic rock be the soundtrack to my worries.


What's wrong with psychedelic rock?

The music and movies would have been just OK to me. The atmosphere would be too crazy.



What was crazy about it? ???

What's wrong with psychedelic rock?

I literally said that it's just "not my cup of tea". You guys do know that people have their own opinions right? I never said that you have to agree with me.



What was crazy about it? ???

Really? Did you skip history class?

Well, if that's the case then:

1. The riots
2. The anti-war demonstrations
3. The Kent State Massacre
4. The Vietnam War itself
5. The tense political climate
6. Very high racial tensions
7. Open segregationist running for President (Alabama Governor George Wallace in 1968)
8. The assassinations (MLK and RFK)

The #1 song of 1968, according to the Billboard Year-End Hot 100 singles of 1968 is:

A_MjCqQoLLA


The #1 song of 1969, according to the Billboard Year-End Hot 100 singles of 1969 is:

h9nE2spOw_o

Which song represents the late '60s the best to you? :P

Somebody answer this....please and thank you.

Somebody answer this....please and thank you.


There is a rather easy answer to this. It is not an either/or situation. It was the nature of top 40 AM radio in the late 60s that serious songs like "Hey Jude" (at over 7 minutes!) could coexist along side manufactured, sticky sweet contrived bubblegum songs like "Sugar Sugar". You could turn on the radio in 68/69 and hear the Beatles alongside the Archies, Monkees, Hendrix, Stones, Supremes, Sergio Mendes, harpsichord driven. orchestrated  instrumentals like "Love Is Blue" by Paul Mauriat  and "Quentin's Theme" (from "Dark Shadows"), Bob Dylan (his "Lay Lady Lay" was a big hit in 69), and on and on. There was a wide variety of styles from bubblegum to dead serious and they played it all. So there is really no one style or song that can be considered "representative" or definitive. And that's just AM top 40. the REAL action was taking place on the FM, free form, hippie "underground" stations of the day. They wold play 25 minute songs, entire album sides, political manifestos, spoken word material...you name it. It was glorious.

There is a rather easy answer to this. It is not an either/or situation. It was the nature of top 40 AM radio in the late 60s that serious songs like "Hey Jude" (at over 7 minutes!) could coexist along side manufactured, sticky sweet contrived bubblegum songs like "Sugar Sugar". You could turn on the radio in 68/69 and hear the Beatles alongside the Archies, Monkees, Hendrix, Stones, Supremes, Sergio Mendes, harpsichord driven. orchestrated  instrumentals like "Love Is Blue" by Paul Mauriat  and "Quentin's Theme" (from "Dark Shadows"), Bob Dylan (his "Lay Lady Lay" was a big hit in 69), and on and on. There was a wide variety of styles from bubblegum to dead serious and they played it all. So there is really no one style or song that can be considered "representative" or definitive. And that's just AM top 40. the REAL action was taking place on the FM, free form, hippie "underground" stations of the day. They wold play 25 minute songs, entire album sides, political manifestos, spoken word material...you name it. It was glorious.

Thanks for the historical analysis.

Now answer the question ;D.

Thanks for the historical analysis.

Now answer the question ;D.


For me personally, I'm obviously going to say "Hey Jude". "Sugar Sugar" does not speak to me as a song. 

For me personally, I'm obviously going to say "Hey Jude". "Sugar Sugar" does not speak to me as a song.

Is it because it's from an animated band? :P

Is it because it's from an animated band? :P


Not really. But that should be a red flag right there. Ron Dante, who sang all the voices on the song (including the "female" ones) is actually a decent singer. He was also the voice of several other "fake band" hits such as "Tracy" by the Cuff Links  and the novelty hit "Leader of the Laundromat" by the Detergents (really!). "Sugar Sugar" is just a meaningless piece of fluff. When one thinks of "THE SIXTIES", especially the late 60s, I doubt "Sugar Sugar" is the first thing that comes to mind, however big a hit it may have been. "Hey Jude" may be one of the first things that comes to mind though. But even comparing "Hey Jude" and "Sugar Sugar" is apples and oranges, which was the point of my initial post about the variety of AM radio in those days.

Not really. But that should be a red flag right there. Ron Dante, who sang all the voices on the song (including the "female" ones) is actually a decent singer. He was also the voice of several other "fake band" hits such as "Tracy" by the Cuff Links  and the novelty hit "Leader of the Laundromat" by the Detergents (really!). "Sugar Sugar" is just a meaningless piece of fluff. When one thinks of "THE SIXTIES", especially the late 60s, I doubt "Sugar Sugar" is the first thing that comes to mind, however big a hit it may have been. "Hey Jude" may be one of the first things that comes to mind though. But even comparing "Hey Jude" and "Sugar Sugar" is apples and oranges, which was the point of my initial post about the variety of AM radio in those days.

Interesting. Once again, thanks for your immense knowledge.

For me personally, I'm obviously going to say "Hey Jude". "Sugar Sugar" does not speak to me as a song.


I loved "Sugar Sugar" - I thought it was amazing!  :D  But, at that time I was 9 years old  ::)

(Seriously, though, I always loved the Beatles, even as a kid - you can thank the Beatles' kiddie cartoon for that...)

Which film epitomizes the late '60s at it's peak to you?

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/rT9w3tzk25jA8vl7KyvzUP5gHJV.jpg

The highest grossing film of 1968 in the US.

OR

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
http://static.metacritic.com/images/products/movies/8/d1b91b284f9e3f458f2c64f6dcd370cc.jpg

The highest grossing film of 1969 in the US.

I loved "Sugar Sugar" - I thought it was amazing!  :D  But, at that time I was 9 years old  ::)


You basically reacted the way you were supposed to. That was the demographic it was aimed at. The whole song reeks of being a "business decision". When the as yet unrecorded song first came to the attention of impresario Don Kirshner he brought it to the Monkees, but they refused it.

Classic and psychedelic rock isn't really my thing. Yeah, there are few songs from those genres that I like or find to be decent but it's still just not "my cup of tea".

I would rather be a young person in 1963 with surf rock being popular and having a more chill life than being in 1968 and having to worry about getting drafted and sent to Vietnam while having psychedelic rock be the soundtrack to my worries.


Perfectly fine. Not that you need me to tell you that, or anything.  ;D

Its like a person likes what they like, there's not a logic to it, 'it just is'.

I loved "Sugar Sugar" - I thought it was amazing!  :D  But, at that time I was 9 years old  ::)


You basically reacted the way you were supposed to. That was the demographic it was aimed at.


To add a little credence to what you said, "Sugar Sugar" was among the most popular finds to cut out on the back of a cereal box... 

Perfectly fine. Not that you need me to tell you that, or anything.  ;D

Its like a person likes what they like, there's not a logic to it, 'it just is'.

You know it!

Somebody answer this....please and thank you.


A single song isn't a fully accurate representation of an entire year's music. 1968 had more than just long Beatles ballads, it was also defined by the continued flourish of psychedelic rock, progressive Motown soul, and even a bit of bubblegum pop thrown into the mix, as well. 1969 had a continuation of all of those trends, plus rock starting to really experiment more into 70s territory with genre-defining albums in hard rock, proto-punk, and prog rock. "Sugar Sugar" actually sounds like something that was written in 1963 or 1964 and was really just an ear worm that balanced out all of the hard rock, funk, soul, and other, more sophisticated types of music dominating the charts otherwise.

A single song isn't a fully accurate representation of an entire year's music. 1968 had more than just long Beatles ballads, it was also defined by the continued flourish of psychedelic rock, progressive Motown soul, and even a bit of bubblegum pop thrown into the mix, as well. 1969 had a continuation of all of those trends, plus rock starting to really experiment more into 70s territory with genre-defining albums in hard rock, proto-punk, and prog rock. "Sugar Sugar" actually sounds like something that was written in 1963 or 1964 and was really just an ear worm that balanced out all of the hard rock, funk, soul, and other, more sophisticated types of music dominating the charts otherwise.

I didn't say that they was representative of an entire year. I just said that out of the two songs...which one is more representative of the late '60s.

Which film epitomizes the late '60s at it's peak to you?

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/rT9w3tzk25jA8vl7KyvzUP5gHJV.jpg

The highest grossing film of 1968 in the US.

OR

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
http://static.metacritic.com/images/products/movies/8/d1b91b284f9e3f458f2c64f6dcd370cc.jpg

The highest grossing film of 1969 in the US.

Once again...answers?

The #1 song of 1969, according to the Billboard Year-End Hot 100 singles of 1969 is:

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Which song represents the late '60s the best to you? :P


It's ironic that such an innocent song achieved mass success during a time of turbulence and chaos. :P

I think the 60s were from 1964-1971/1972. up through the end of the Nixon presidency seemed to have some 60s influence though. 1975-1979 didn't have that same 60s influence.

I think the 60s were from 1964-1971/1972. up through the end of the Nixon presidency seemed to have some 60s influence though. 1975-1979 didn't have that same 60s influence.


You nailed it. I place the cultural 60s as beginning in February, 1964 with the Beatles first appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show, with he country still feeling the effects of the JFK assassination in November 63. The cultural 60s ended in late 1972. There was no one cataclysmic event that ended the 60s there, not even the landslide reelection of Richard Nixon. They just finally petered out. It continually irks me that lazy media writers always say the Rolling Stones concert at Altamont "ended the 60s" in December,1969. How convenient! The 60s marched right on through 1970, 71 and even 72 though in an increasingly washed out way.  Echoes of the 60s still reverberated a bit  through 73 and 74 but culturally they were considered quite passe by that point.

It's ironic that such an innocent song achieved mass success during a time of turbulence and chaos. :P

That's the '60s for you :P.

Nothing about 1972 (or even 1971) is '60s to me.

Nothing about 1972 (or even 1971) is '60s to me.


It was more underground youth culture than pop charts then
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this is a 60s song of 1971
60s song of 1972
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Here's a cartoon from 1972

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Culture was very 60s

The 60's, overall, isn't my favorite decade. The 80's is, with the 90's coming in second. I especially love the first half of the 90's, 1990 to 1995.

1. 80's
2. 90's
3. 30's
4. 60's
5. 1890's

The 60's, overall, isn't my favorite decade. The 80's is, with the 90's coming in second. I especially love the first half of the 90's, 1990 to 1995.

1. 80's
2. 90's
3. 30's
4. 60's
5. 1890's

I like the first half of the '90s as well.

However...what appeals to you about the 1930s and 1890s that makes them be in your top 5 favorite decades? :o

I didn't say that they was representative of an entire year. I just said that out of the two songs...which one is more representative of the late '60s.


Well, obviously "Hey Jude" is more representative. However, even more definitive to the late 60s would be something like "Time of the Season," "Everyday People," "All Along the Watchtower" (the Hendrix version), "Light My Fire," "Green Tambourine," or "Give Peace a Chance."

It was more underground youth culture than pop charts then
c9lh7lqZojc
this is a 60s song of 1971
60s song of 1972
FBnSWJHawQQ


Here's a cartoon from 1972

kYiqDyvILfw
Culture was very 60s

OK, I see fair enough.

However, still overall...nothing much 1960s about 1972 or 1971.


Well, obviously "Hey Jude" is more representative. However, even more definitive to the late 60s would be something like "Time of the Season," "Everyday People," "All Along the Watchtower" (the Hendrix version), "Light My Fire," "Green Tambourine," or "Give Peace a Chance."

You know more about this stuff than me....so I agree :P.

I like the first half of the '90s as well.

However...what appeals to you about the 1930s and 1890s that makes them be in your top 5 favorite decades? :o


Probably from a false sense of twisted nostalgia. I'm pretty sure I'm romanticizing them, but I guess I like to romanticize things.  ;D

Probably from a false sense of twisted nostalgia. I'm pretty sure I'm romanticizing them, but I guess I like to romanticize things.  ;D

OK but very, very few people have a "twisted nostalgia" for the 1930s and 1890s :-X.

Nothing about 1972 (or even 1971) is '60s to me.


Trust me on this, I was there.  What would now be thought of as "a 60s spirit" still permeated 1971 and into 1972, it was just more tired and "washed out". It had taken on more earth tones rather than day glo colors. Granted, if one walked around in 1972 (or even perhaps the latter half of 1971) dressed as a stereotypical 1968 or 1969 hippie one would be looked at askance. But anti war demonstrations, for example, were still widely taking pace in 1971 and 1972. And think of the Christmas bombing of Hanoi in 1972, one of the more heightened periods of the Vietnam War. Lest anyone think that the Vietnam war was basically a "60s phenomenon".  The 60s ended at the end of 1972.

Trust me on this, I was there.  What would now be thought of as "a 60s spirit" still permeated 1971 and into 1972, it was just more tired and "washed out". It had taken on more earth tones rather than day glo colors. Granted, if one walked around in 1972 (or even perhaps the latter half of 1971) dressed as a stereotypical 1968 or 1969 hippie one would be looked at askance. But anti war demonstrations, for example, were still widely taking pace in 1971 and 1972. And think of the Christmas bombing of Hanoi in 1972, one of the more heightened periods of the Vietnam War. Lest anyone think that the Vietnam war was basically a "60s phenomenon".  The 60s ended at the end of 1972.

Well yeah of course....US involvement in the Vietnam War didn't end until 1973 but the war and anti war demonstrations largely subsided after 1970.

Of course, there was a few vestiges of the '60s in 1971 or 1972 but I still don't find them to very '60s..at all.

Nothing about 1972 (or even 1971) is '60s to me.


There was still plenty of 60s-type of culture those years. To begin with, the United States was still actively involved with Vietnam. Furthermore, a lot of iconic 60s television shows were still wrapping up at the time, such as Bewitched (albeit with the other Darrin), My Three Sons, Hogan's Heroes, Mission: Impossible, and a few others.

Music's ties to the late 60s were also far from forgotten. Even with newer bands and artists like America, Carly Simon, and Elton John showing up to the party, plenty of songs still had strong 60s sensibilities, such as "Long Cool Woman," "Stuck in the Middle with You" (actually a hit in 1973, though made in 1972), "Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves," "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep," "Draggin' the Line," "Treat Her Like a Lady," "Floy Joy," "Get on the Good Foot," and even arguably the early funk songs like "Want Ads," "Sugar Daddy," and "Groove Me," which are really more tied to songs from the late 60s like "Spinning Wheel" and "Runaway Child, Running Wild" than stuff from the Watergate era like "Jungle Boogie," "On and On," and "Superstition."

The 60s really didn't totally die off until 1973, when Vietnam was over, music had fully established itself beyond the late 60s, television had entered a different generation, Old Hollywood was virtually nonexistent, and issues like Watergate and OPEC dominated the headlines.

Well yeah of course....US involvement in the Vietnam War didn't end until 1973 but the war and anti war demonstrations largely subsided after 1970.

It's still a huge leap of logic to say nothing was culturally 60s about 1971 and 1972. I guess even something as backwards as "Long Cool Woman" or "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep" is a total representation of how much the 60s were a long-gone memory just one to two years after their conclusion.

Of course, there was a few vestiges of the '60s in 1971 or 1972 but I still don't find them to very '60s..at all.

They were plenty 60s. Things of all sorts that were coming out still wouldn't be that out of place in the late 60s.

It's still a huge leap of logic to say nothing was culturally 60s about 1971 and 1972. I guess even something as backwards as "Long Cool Woman" or "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep" is a total representation of how much the 60s were a long-gone memory just one to two years after their conclusion.

They were plenty 60s. Things of all sorts that were coming out still wouldn't be that out of place in the late 60s.

I meant to say nothing much...not nothing entirely. However, I guess you guys are right but I still view 1971 and 1972 (especially '72) as mostly '70s years.

The 60s really didn't totally die off until 1973, when Vietnam was over, music had fully established itself beyond the late 60s, television had entered a different generation, Old Hollywood was virtually nonexistent, and issues like Watergate and OPEC dominated the headlines.



Well yeah of course....US involvement in the Vietnam War didn't end until 1973 but the war and anti war demonstrations largely subsided after 1970.

Of course, there was a few vestiges of the '60s in 1971 or 1972 but I still don't find them to very '60s..at all.


One thing I've always noticed is how people have very varied opinions as to when the cultural 60s ended, like for example some people think the 60s ended with the Altamont festival in December 1969 whereas others think they ended with Kent state and the Beatles break-up. Some even think they lasted all the way until 1974 when Nixon resigned.

One thing I've always noticed is how people have very varied opinions as to when the cultural 60s ended, like for example some people think the 60s ended with the Altamont festival in December 1969 whereas others think they ended with Kent state and the Beatles break-up. Some even think they lasted all the way until 1974 when Nixon resigned.

Yeah, that's because the 1960s was the craziest and most transformative decade in U.S. history.

If the 1960s didn't die until 1974 then the 1990s didn't end until 2004 :P.

Yeah, that's because the 1960s was the craziest and most transformative decade in U.S. history.

If the 1960s didn't die until 1974 then the 1990s didn't end until 2004 :P.


The difference is that the political 2000s started in 2001 and that 1999 was incredibly different from the rest of the 90s that what you call 90s influence wasn't really 90s.

Yeah, that's because the 1960s was the craziest and most transformative decade in U.S. history.

Maybe socially, but technologically, they were actually one of the least changeful decades in modern history. The types of things you could do in 1970 were fundamentally almost no different at all than in 1959, even though the radically different fashion, music, and social values give the illusion that such was the case.

One thing I've always noticed is how people have very varied opinions as to when the cultural 60s ended, like for example some people think the 60s ended with the Altamont festival in December 1969 whereas others think they ended with Kent state and the Beatles break-up. Some even think they lasted all the way until 1974 when Nixon resigned.


I keep stressing this in many threads, but no specific EVENT ended the cultural 60s. Certainly not the oft-cited Altamont concert which happened in December 1969. How easy, how convenient. The 60s just finally petered out, wound down, stuttered to an end at the end of 1972. I was there, and 1973 felt different. If anything, the major events of late 1972, the stepped up Christmas bombing of Hanoi and the landslide reelection of Richard Nixon, should have RENEWED the rebellious 60s spirit, but they did not. It had gone as far as it could go at that time.

I keep stressing this in many threads, but no specific EVENT ended the cultural 60s. Certainly not the oft-cited Altamont concert which happened in December 1969. How easy, how convenient. The 60s just finally petered out, wound down, stuttered to an end at the end of 1972. I was there, and 1973 felt different. If anything, the major events of late 1972, the stepped up Christmas bombing of Hanoi and the landslide reelection of Richard Nixon, should have RENEWED the rebellious 60s spirit, but they did not. It had gone as far as it could go at that time.


What would you say are the last birthyears influenced by the spirit of the 60s?

Maybe socially, but technologically, they were actually one of the least changeful decades in modern history. The types of things you could do in 1970 were fundamentally almost no different at all than in 1959, even though the radically different fashion, music, and social values give the illusion that such was the case.

Of course I meant socially.

However, in 1970 you had the debut of the Boeing 747...still the biggest marvel in aviation history. In 1959, the Jet Age was only a year old and the Boeing 707 was the game changing new aircraft.

It's still a huge leap of logic to say nothing was culturally 60s about 1971 and 1972. I guess even something as backwards as "Long Cool Woman" or "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep" is a total representation of how much the 60s were a long-gone memory just one to two years after their conclusion.


I always saw "Long Cool Woman" as a sendup/emulation of the T. Rex sound which was sweeping the UK in early 1972. So rather than backwards looking, one could say "Long Cool Woman" was forward looking to glam and the change at the end of 72 (the cultural 60s ends) to the beginning of 73 (the cultural 70s begins). HOWEVER, the T. Rex sound in itself was a glammed up throwback to the 50s, so this all gets a bit complicated.  :)

Incidentally, another song that is a sendup of the T. Rex sound is "It's Only Rock & Roll" by the Stones. But by then we're into 1974 and another era altogether.

What would you say are the last birthyears influenced by the spirit of the 60s?


Probably about 1956-58.

The difference is that the political 2000s started in 2001 and that 1999 was incredibly different from the rest of the 90s that what you call 90s influence wasn't really 90s.

I won't get into that on this thread.

I keep stressing this in many threads, but no specific EVENT ended the cultural 60s. Certainly not the oft-cited Altamont concert which happened in December 1969. How easy, how convenient. The 60s just finally petered out, wound down, stuttered to an end at the end of 1972. I was there, and 1973 felt different. If anything, the major events of late 1972, the stepped up Christmas bombing of Hanoi and the landslide reelection of Richard Nixon, should have RENEWED the rebellious 60s spirit, but they did not. It had gone as far as it could go at that time.


I agree they didn't end at one point but merely just faded over time. I think the spring/early summer of 1970 was when the cultural 60s began to decline and ended for good around the 1972-1973 school year. Also, you say you were around in this time? Cool, when were you born? (If you don't mind me asking)

I always saw "Long Cool Woman" as a sendup/emulation of the T. Rex sound which was sweeping the UK in early 1972. So rather than backwards looking, one could say "Long Cool Woman" was forward looking to glam and the change at the end of 72 (the cultural 60s ends) to the beginning of 73 (the cultural 70s begins). HOWEVER, the T. Rex sound in itself was a glammed up throwback to the 50s, so this all gets a bit complicated.  :)

Also, The Hollies were far more iconic to the 1960s than they were to the 70s, so "Long Cool Woman" comes off more as a 60s juggernaut holding on to the last thread of possibility for a classic 60s Merseybeat band to still sound relevant than a group jumping on the bandwagon of a newer movement.

Incidentally, another song that is a sendup of the T. Rex sound is "It's Only Rock & Roll" by the Stones. But by then we're into 1974 and another era altogether.


Glam rock in general was a 1971 to 1975 movement that peaked commercially around 1973 and 1974. Like you said, though, it was pretty much an homage to 50s rockabilly music, just a bit more amplified. Twas a dark, dark time for popular music in Britain, at least in my opinion, though not particularly for T. Rex.

I agree they didn't end at one point but merely just faded over time. I think the spring/early summer of 1970 was when the cultural 60s began to decline and ended for good around the 1972-1973 school year.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it, too.

So you guys are saying that most of Nixon's presidency was culturally '60s?

So you guys are saying that most of Nixon's presidency was culturally '60s?


Well, his first term can be considered such (I see it as more half-and-half), but his second term, dominated by Watergate, was undoubtedly 70s.

There was still plenty of 60s-type of culture those years. To begin with, the United States was still actively involved with Vietnam. Furthermore, a lot of iconic 60s television shows were still wrapping up at the time, such as Bewitched (albeit with the other Darrin), My Three Sons, Hogan's Heroes, Mission: Impossible, and a few others.

Music's ties to the late 60s were also far from forgotten. Even with newer bands and artists like America, Carly Simon, and Elton John showing up to the party, plenty of songs still had strong 60s sensibilities, such as "Long Cool Woman," "Stuck in the Middle with You" (actually a hit in 1973, though made in 1972), "Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves," "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep," "Draggin' the Line," "Treat Her Like a Lady," "Floy Joy," "Get on the Good Foot," and even arguably the early funk songs like "Want Ads," "Sugar Daddy," and "Groove Me," which are really more tied to songs from the late 60s like "Spinning Wheel" and "Runaway Child, Running Wild" than stuff from the Watergate era like "Jungle Boogie," "On and On," and "Superstition."

The 60s really didn't totally die off until 1973, when Vietnam was over, music had fully established itself beyond the late 60s, television had entered a different generation, Old Hollywood was virtually nonexistent, and issues like Watergate and OPEC dominated the headlines.



Then disco music became a popular fad.

On the topic of the late 60s, has anyone played that new game Mafia III set in 1968?

On the topic of the late 60s, has anyone played that new game Mafia III set in 1968?

I haven't. However, I heard that it's set in NOLA (New Orleans, Lousiana) and it features a Black male protagonist who is fighting the KKK and other White supremacists.

The rock of 1972 was very 60s

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