While I've commonly thought the '60s as a whole (hippies, Vietnam, Woodstock, etc) ended around 1971, I have heard some people say the "spirit" or the "generation" of the '60s didn't completely end until John Lennon was shot (:() in 1980.

While I disagreed and went Huh, the '60s had been over for awhile by then! at first, once I thought about it, I kinda agree. Some things in the '70s were like a natural evolution of the '60s -- casual drug use, the sexual revolution, both being a part of the era we now call "classic rock", etc. And it wasn't until 1981 or so, that the '60s appeared to start really feelig "old" or like another era.

I agree. I think 1980 had a little bit of the '60s left, just because John Lennon was still alive.  :\'(

^Yeah. Even if he hadn't been shot, I think it still would've been gone by 1982, but still, in a way I think in 1980 there was a brief "return to innocent times" feeling. Have you ever thought that? Like 1980 almost seems more "old time" than, say 1977?

Nah, the vibe in the 1960s and 1970s were different - I guess you just had to live at the times to feel it (lol, of course I didn't). The 60s were far from the carefree, optimistic and innocent time often portrayed in films, books.etc, such as the Woodstock or Monterrey Footage.etc. It was a time of sweeping social change, Vietnam.etc. Nonetheless, the 70s were a darker, grittier and more 'street-wise' period. The events include up the end of the '60 generation' included Altamont, the Manson Murders, the triple deaths of Hendrix, Joplin and Morrison, the Kent State Massacre, Assasination of Robert Kennedy, Isle of Wight, Glastonbury.etc.

Nah, the vibe in the 1960s and 1970s were different - I guess you just had to live at the times to feel it (lol, of course I didn't). The 60s were far from the carefree, optimistic and innocent time often portrayed in films, books.etc, such as the Woodstock or Monterrey Footage.etc. It was a time of sweeping social change, Vietnam.etc. Nonetheless, the 70s were a darker, grittier and more 'street-wise' period. The events include up the end of the '60 generation' included Altamont, the Manson Murders, the triple deaths of Hendrix, Joplin and Morrison, the Kent State Massacre, Assasination of Robert Kennedy, Isle of Wight, Glastonbury.etc.

Oh I agree, no decade is half as "innocent" as it's often portrayed to be. I'm sure when the '60s were going on, that made the '50s look quiet and kinda lame/old in comparison (especially with the darker counterculture c. 1969).

The '70s did give us alot of new things for sure (and I do feel it's the first "modern" decade in politics and lifestyle), but I think there was at least a glimmer of "60s generation" ideals and pop culture influence around.

I think it would be really interesting to get a 1980 viewpoint on all of this. In some ways, it probably seemed futuristic (the beginning of the video game/electronic age), but in other ways, I bet some people thought "the 80s" would be like another '60s. 1980 did seem like a very brief "return to the old days" feel to it.

It's amazing how old the '60s became, though. By 1982 they were ancient. ;D

Oh I agree, no decade is half as "innocent" as it's often portrayed to be. I'm sure when the '60s were going on, that made the '50s look quiet and kinda lame/old in comparison (especially with the darker counterculture c. 1969).

The '70s did give us alot of new things for sure (and I do feel it's the first "modern" decade in politics and lifestyle), but I think there was at least a glimmer of "60s generation" ideals and pop culture influence around.

I think it would be really interesting to get a 1980 viewpoint on all of this. In some ways, it probably seemed futuristic (the beginning of the video game/electronic age), but in other ways, I bet some people thought "the 80s" would be like another '60s. 1980 did seem like a very brief "return to the old days" feel to it.

It's amazing how old the '60s became, though. By 1982 they were ancient. ;D


Yeah, we often forgot 1969 was just over a decade before 1980, yet the two seem worlds apart. Think, 1969-1980 is the same difference was 1995-2006  :o. Yet, as soon as 1970 rolled around, the counterculture of the 60s was freshly minted and almost immediately made 'vintage' - it seemed like people knew Woodstock would be so well-remembered even as it was going on. It was totally different post-1980.

Yeah, we often forgot 1969 was just over a decade before 1980, yet the two seem worlds apart. Think, 1969-1980 is the same difference was 1995-2006  :o. Yet, as soon as 1970 rolled around, the counterculture of the 60s was freshly minted and almost immediately made 'vintage' - it seemed like people knew Woodstock would be so well-remembered even as it was going on. It was totally different post-1980.

I agree, even 1982 seems like an entire generation from 1969, whereas even now, in some ways 1982 feels like "just a little while ago", even if is actually is starting to get old datewise. :(

I think when Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin died, people realized how "classic" that part of the '60s were. I've often thought, when an artist dies, that makes their music a little more timeless, and people are less likely to dismiss it as "dated". That could be one reason it took until late 1980-81 to really feel like the '60s were totally over.

While I've commonly thought the '60s as a whole (hippies, Vietnam, Woodstock, etc) ended around 1971, I have heard some people say the "spirit" or the "generation" of the '60s didn't completely end until John Lennon was shot (:() in 1980.

While I disagreed and went Huh, the '60s had been over for awhile by then! at first, once I thought about it, I kinda agree. Some things in the '70s were like a natural evolution of the '60s -- casual drug use, the sexual revolution, both being a part of the era we now call "classic rock", etc. And it wasn't until 1981 or so, that the '60s appeared to start really feelig "old" or like another era.



To a certian extent I agree. There was still some remaning '60s influence left in 1980(not much or about as much '90s influence was left now) but there was still some. Even though you could argue that the rise of disco in the mid '70s brought an end to the '60s generation, I think that disco and '70s culture as a whole wouldn't be too far out of reach for even some '60s people(just look at Ralph Furley on Three's Company ;D)

^ LOL I agree. ;)

I bet in 1976, people thought Disco and other more edgy/cutting edge was making the '60s seem old, but as a whole, some of it kinda fits the same syntax (1964-81 has some overall similarities to it).

^Yeah. Even if he hadn't been shot, I think it still would've been gone by 1982, but still, in a way I think in 1980 there was a brief "return to innocent times" feeling. Have you ever thought that? Like 1980 almost seems more "old time" than, say 1977?


Yeah...the early '80s were a cultural "return to innocence", in terms of aboveground pop culture, though this doesn't apply to the underground new wave that was peaking then. I think alot of people saw Reagan's election and taking office around the time of John Lennon's death as a return to the pre-1964 days, since Reagan had such a conservative, "apple pie" rhetoric. People were sick of the '60s and '70s idealism and wanted to start making money, and were unabashedly interested in themselves.

Overall, also, mainstream pop culture was quite "innocent" around 1982. E.T. represents the overall feeling of the period, I suppose...and the end of those socially activist sitcoms and movies around 1980 for the rise of innocent family sitcoms like Webster. It was both innocence in terms of the interest in returning to the pre-Vietnam days and innocence in terms of the basic ignorance and disinterest in social/political matters that characterized the period...everyone wanted to forget the outside world and make money on one hand, and on the other hand "old timey" nostalgia was flourishing.

Yeah...the early '80s were a cultural "return to innocence", in terms of aboveground pop culture, though this doesn't apply to the underground new wave that was peaking then. I think alot of people saw Reagan's election and taking office around the time of John Lennon's death as a return to the pre-1964 days, since Reagan had such a conservative, "apple pie" rhetoric. People were sick of the '60s and '70s idealism and wanted to start making money, and were unabashedly interested in themselves.

Overall, also, mainstream pop culture was quite "innocent" around 1982. E.T. represents the overall feeling of the period, I suppose...and the end of those socially activist sitcoms and movies around 1980 for the rise of innocent family sitcoms like Webster. It was both innocence in terms of the interest in returning to the pre-Vietnam days and innocence in terms of the basic ignorance and disinterest in social/political matters that characterized the period...everyone wanted to forget the outside world and make money on one hand, and on the other hand "old timey" nostalgia was flourishing.



I agree. The '80s were the most conservative decade since the '50s. It was a combination of two consecutive reletivaly "liberal" decades, the poor economy in the late '70s, and as you said Regan's "apple pie" rhetoric, that the '80s were more of a return to the conservative ideals of the '50s. So alot of the problems of the time were easily ignored. It's ironic that as conservative of a decade as the '80s were the pop culture was the excact opposite.

I agree. The '80s were the most conservative decade since the '50s. It was a combination of two consecutive reletivaly "liberal" decades, the poor economy in the late '70s, and as you said Regan's "apple pie" rhetoric, that the '80s were more of a return to the conservative ideals of the '50s. So alot of the problems of the time were easily ignored. It's ironic that as conservative of a decade as the '80s were the pop culture was the excact opposite.


I think alot of it is that the non-conservative pop culture was driven by people born after 1963 or 1964, who seem more to have been disillusioned by Reagan or apathetic towards him than part of the '80s establishment.

Yeah...the early '80s were a cultural "return to innocence", in terms of aboveground pop culture, though this doesn't apply to the underground new wave that was peaking then. I think alot of people saw Reagan's election and taking office around the time of John Lennon's death as a return to the pre-1964 days, since Reagan had such a conservative, "apple pie" rhetoric. People were sick of the '60s and '70s idealism and wanted to start making money, and were unabashedly interested in themselves.

Overall, also, mainstream pop culture was quite "innocent" around 1982. E.T. represents the overall feeling of the period, I suppose...and the end of those socially activist sitcoms and movies around 1980 for the rise of innocent family sitcoms like Webster. It was both innocence in terms of the interest in returning to the pre-Vietnam days and innocence in terms of the basic ignorance and disinterest in social/political matters that characterized the period...everyone wanted to forget the outside world and make money on one hand, and on the other hand "old timey" nostalgia was flourishing.

That means the '50s came back as soon as the '60s ended. ;D


Really though, I agree, that all has something to do with why '50s nostalgia was so big for the pre-1987 '80s. It wasn't just a return/revival of the pop culture, but it's like people wanted that "suburban, apple pie lifestyle" to come back with it, too.

Another reason the '80s were sorta materialistic, to where it was often criticized that kids/younger people focused more on pop culture and fashions than politics (although you could say this started changing in the late '80s, esp around 1989), is people chose to ignore politics going on in the world, to an extent. Then again, it was slightly more avoidable then, than it would be now, with widespread Internet, etc.

Yeah, it was more the mainstream, average pop culture that was innocent at the time. I'd say 1980-83 was the peak of the "innocent" years.

That means the '50s came back as soon as the '60s ended. ;D


Really though, I agree, that all has something to do with why '50s nostalgia was so big for the pre-1987 '80s. It wasn't just a return/revival of the pop culture, but it's like people wanted that "suburban, apple pie lifestyle" to come back with it, too.

Another reason the '80s were sorta materialistic, to where it was often criticized that kids/younger people focused more on pop culture and fashions than politics (although you could say this started changing in the late '80s, esp around 1989), is people chose to ignore politics going on in the world, to an extent. Then again, it was slightly more avoidable then, than it would be now, with widespread Internet, etc.

Yeah, it was more the mainstream, average pop culture that was innocent at the time. I'd say 1980-83 was the peak of the "innocent" years.


I think the '00s are sort of a return to people "wanting the '80s", even people my age. Part of it is the way that everything now is about the upper middle-class to rich. The '80s solution to social problems, particularly up to 1987, was ignoring it and hoping it would go away, like with class inequality, the crack cocaine epidemic, and AIDS. I've talked to some people born in the late '60s, and I somehow get the impression they were the ones who were more concerned about politics than the older people criticizing them for it. I've said this before and I'll say it again...most boomers cared about these things to follow a fashion and because the reforms aided themselves rather than due to empathy for other people.

It's arguable that nostalgia in the '80s for the pre-Vietnam war era, like 1946-1963, was so high it just bled into the way things were as a whole and how real life was portrayed in music and the movies. I think people were nostalgic for the '70s in the '90s because it was pre-AIDS and before stuff like crack cocaine and "drugs were bad", and at the same time it was modern.

I think the '00s are sort of a return to people "wanting the '80s", even people my age. Part of it is the way that everything now is about the upper middle-class to rich. The '80s solution to social problems, particularly up to 1987, was ignoring it and hoping it would go away, like with class inequality, the crack cocaine epidemic, and AIDS. I've talked to some people born in the late '60s, and I somehow get the impression they were the ones who were more concerned about politics than the older people criticizing them for it. I've said this before and I'll say it again...most boomers cared about these things to follow a fashion and because the reforms aided themselves rather than due to empathy for other people.

It's arguable that nostalgia in the '80s for the pre-Vietnam war era, like 1946-1963, was so high it just bled into the way things were as a whole and how real life was portrayed in music and the movies. I think people were nostalgic for the '70s in the '90s because it was pre-AIDS and before stuff like crack cocaine and "drugs were bad", and at the same time it was modern.


Yeah, the '80s are to today what the '90s were to the '70s: partly a time "before certain bad stuff" was going on, but also new and cool enough to be equivalent on a modern level.

Generalizations and criticisms are often incorrect, or at least the bad examples overshadow the good ones. I agree, more '80s teens were concerned about things than, say a 1948 born boomer may have given them credit for. People seemed to have this attitude about inner city poverty and things like that, of "Oh well, I'm sure it sucks, but it doesn't concern me, so I'll just ignore it".

Do you think, in a way, the Boomers were more "selfish" in that respect, than some other generations have been?

Yeah, the '80s are to today what the '90s were to the '70s: partly a time "before certain bad stuff" was going on, but also new and cool enough to be equivalent on a modern level.

Generalizations and criticisms are often incorrect, or at least the bad examples overshadow the good ones. I agree, more '80s teens were concerned about things than, say a 1948 born boomer may have given them credit for. People seemed to have this attitude about inner city poverty and things like that, of "Oh well, I'm sure it sucks, but it doesn't concern me, so I'll just ignore it".

Do you think, in a way, the Boomers were more "selfish" in that respect, than some other generations have been?


Yeah, the boomers are fairly selfish...like they turn every decade they've touched into a different phase of "their time" and discredit everyone younger than them or older than them. I think in their own way Gen Xers are a little selfish, in terms of hating baby boomers and disliking people born after 1980. Yeah, the affection for the '70s in the '90s at least partially stemmed from that image of them as a "cool decade" where you could do the things (casual sex and drug use) that people wanted to do, without known consequences. People in the '90s also envied the '70s for being "cutting-edge" and socially conscious and gritty in a way the '80s weren't, with all the sort of artsy, gritty movies and TV, and even music (punk, disco, stuff like The Velvet Underground), and the lifestyle in Dazed and Confused. People envy the '80s in the '00s for the overall carefree atmosphere projected by pop culture, with its easy materialism, and the overall stylishness and futurism of the decade...and stuff like boys being able to wear makeup, etc.

People also envy the 80s because, while being cool was really important in the 80s, cool in the eighties meant being really OTT, campy, and caricatured - hence you could really let yourself go, and act as stupidly as you wanted. The 80s also had a real sense of having its own 'groove', or 'funk' or 'style' if you like, which the late 90s and 00s lacked. The late 90s were probably too suave, urbane and sophisticated for the tackiness of the 80s.

People also envy the 80s because, while being cool was really important in the 80s, cool in the eighties meant being really OTT, campy, and caricatured - hence you could really let yourself go, and act as stupidly as you wanted. The 80s also had a real sense of having its own 'groove', or 'funk' or 'style' if you like, which the late 90s and 00s lacked. The late 90s were probably too suave, urbane and sophisticated for the tackiness of the 80s.


The '70s and '80s sort of exemplified modern camp sensibility. I've definitely heard people around my age say that about the '80s...the free sense of style, that you could wear any sort of nutty clothing you want and be stylish. I also think people envy the John Hughes-era conception of high school and want to apply it to today. Like the "new wave chick" of those movies would be the "emo chick" of today.

I would think that just about anything sixties was gone by 1980 or so, But really I'm not sure I was only about 2 years old in`80. Growing up my parrents always told me how they thought things were so much cooler in the sixties..  If only we all were in 1980 now..then we might know huh?

--
Dave.

I would think that just about anything sixties was gone by 1980 or so, But really I'm not sure I was only about 2 years old in`80. Growing up my parrents always told me how they thought things were so much cooler in the sixties..  If only we all were in 1980 now..then we might know huh?

--
Dave.


Actually, the 60s nostalgia movement reached fever pitch in the early 80s. New Wave groups and even hair metal bands cited the Fab Four as a major influence in their music, and the Beatles' old catalogue saw a resurgence shortly after Lennon's death. 70s Nostalgia too, was alot stronger in the 80s than many people realise. Some of the best-selling Compact discs in the early years were compilations by popular 70s groups like E.L.O, Abba, the Bee Gees (the S.N.F. era), Meatloaf.etc.

Actually, the 60s nostalgia movement reached fever pitch in the early 80s. New Wave groups and even hair metal bands cited the Fab Four as a major influence in their music, and the Beatles' old catalogue saw a resurgence shortly after Lennon's death. 70s Nostalgia too, was alot stronger in the 80s than many people realise. Some of the best-selling Compact discs in the early years were compilations by popular 70s groups like E.L.O, Abba, the Bee Gees (the S.N.F. era), Meatloaf.etc.


My parents thought about buying a CD player around `85 or so this same time, but when you can get the album for 10 bucks and tape for 12...  With the CD at 22.95 IF there even was one.. well that pretty much put the CD player on hold for awhile.. As for the 60's that shows how much I know..  ;)  It seemed semi 70s around here until around `83 or so.

--
Dave.

The 60s didnt really die until 1995 with the death of Jerry Garcia. Things got darker in a hurry after that.

The '70s and '80s sort of exemplified modern camp sensibility. I've definitely heard people around my age say that about the '80s...the free sense of style, that you could wear any sort of nutty clothing you want and be stylish. I also think people envy the John Hughes-era conception of high school and want to apply it to today. Like the "new wave chick" of those movies would be the "emo chick" of today.


Thinking about it, one would sort of appropriate the overarching popular opinion/status quo with the 'fashion sense' or 'sensibilility' of the 80s. I think for the most part people in the 80s accepted their 'nutty' clothing as being 'modern', and 'up-to-date', and didn't even have the slightest notion that it was 'daggy' (which shows how relative a thing fashion is). Though I do think the sense of license that went with experimenting with fashion - among other things - seemed to contrast with the prevailing Objectivist/Modernist 80s world view.