I'm going with Joni. Dylan is overrated...his lyrics oftentimes fall apart into nothing and he's not that great a musician. Joni is a great lyricist and musician. I think sexism and general '60s-fixation by culture has been responsible for people being overly reverent of Dylan.

Bob Dylan.

I'm going with Joni. Dylan is overrated...his lyrics oftentimes fall apart into nothing and he's not that great a musician. Joni is a great lyricist and musician. I think sexism and general '60s-fixation by culture has been responsible for people being overly reverent of Dylan.


Yeah, even I agree the great Dylan is a little over-idolized at times. His lyrics ranged from the mediocre to pure genius, while musically he put out alot of stuff, and only some of it - stuff like the album Freewheelin', Highway 61 Revisited, Blonde on Blonde, John Wesley Harding, Blood on the Tracks and a few others to name a few. 'Like a Rolling Stone' is still his finest hour. I don't think you can really compare them anyway; Dylan was a poet, a muse, the 'voice' and social conscience of his era, while Joni was a soulful, expressive singer songwriter who really came to the fore at a very different time to Dylan. I haven't heard enough of Mitchell's music to comment.

Yeah, even I agree the great Dylan is a little over-idolized at times. His lyrics ranged from the mediocre to pure genius, while musically he put out alot of stuff, and only some of it - stuff like the album Freewheelin', Highway 61 Revisited, Blonde on Blonde, John Wesley Harding, Blood on the Tracks and a few others to name a few. 'Like a Rolling Stone' is still his finest hour. I don't think you can really compare them anyway; Dylan was a poet, a muse, the 'voice' and social conscience of his era, while Joni was a soulful, expressive singer songwriter who really came to the fore at a very different time to Dylan. I haven't heard enough of Mitchell's music to comment.


I actually think Joni Mitchell was the better poet than Dylan, and the better musician. Here's some of her best lyrics:

A Case of You-
Just before our love got lost you said
"I am as constant as a northern star"
And I said "Constantly in the darkness
Where's that at?
If you want me I'll be in the bar"

On the back of a cartoon coaster
In the blue TV screen light
I drew a map of Canada
Oh Canada
With your face sketched on it twice
Oh you're in my blood like holy wine
You taste so bitter and so sweet

Oh I could drink a case of you darling
Still I'd be on my feet
oh I would still be on my feet

Oh I am a lonely painter
I live in a box of paints
I'm frightened by the devil
And I'm drawn to those ones that ain't afraid

I remember that time you told me you said
"Love is touching souls"
Surely you touched mine
'Cause part of you pours out of me
In these lines from time to time
Oh, you're in my blood like holy wine
You taste so bitter and so sweet

Oh I could drink a case of you darling
And I would still be on my feet
I would still be on my feet

I met a woman
She had a mouth like yours
She knew your life
She knew your devils and your deeds
And she said
"Go to him, stay with him if you can
But be prepared to bleed"

Oh but you are in my blood
You're my holy wine
You're so bitter, bitter and so sweet

Oh, I could drink a case of you darling
Still I'd be on my feet
I would still be on my feet

Down To You-
Everything comes and goes
Marked by lovers and styles of clothes
Things that you held high
And told yourself were true
Lost or changing as the days come down to you
Down to you
Constant stranger
You're a kind person
You're a cold person too
It's down to you
It all comes down to you

You go down to the pick up station
Craving warmth and beauty
You settle for less than fascination
A few drinks later you're not so choosy
When the closing lights strip off the shadows
On this strange new flesh you've found
Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf
You hurry
To the blackness
And the blankets
To lay down an impression
And your loneliness

In the morning there are lovers in the street
They look so high
You brush against a stranger
And you both apologize
Old friends seem indifferent
You must have brought that on
Old bonds have broken down
Love is gone
Oooh love is gone
Written on your spirit this sad song
Love is gone

Everything comes and goes
Pleasure moves on too early
And trouble leaves too slow
Just when you're thinking
You've finally got it made
Bad news comes knocking
At your garden gate
Knocking for you
Constant stranger
You're a brute you're an angel
You can crawl you can fly too
It's down to you
It all comes down to you

Shadows and Light-

Every picture has its shadows
And it has some source of light
Blindness blindness and sight
The perils of benefactors
The blessings of parasites
Blindness blindness and sight
Threatened by all things
Devil of cruelty
Drawn to all things
Devil of delight
Mythical devil of the ever-present laws
Governing blindness blindness and sight

Suntans in reservation dining rooms
Pale miners in their lantern rays
Night night and day
Hostage smile on presidents
Freedom scribbled in the subway
It's like night night and day
Threatened by all things
God of cruelty
Drawn to all things
God of delight
Mythical god of the everlasting laws
Governing day day and night

Critics of all expression
Judges in black and white
Saying it's wrong saying it's right
Compelled by prescribed standards
Or some ideals we fight
For wrong wrong and right
Threatened by all things
Man of cruelty-mark of Cain
Drawn to all things
Man of delight-born again born again
Man of the laws the ever-broken laws
Governing wrong wrong and right
Governing wrong wrong and right
Wrong and right

I think people use the poet appellation a little too much...IMO, Dylan was "poetic" but his work rarely reached true poetry and often got caught up in poesy and concern over its own poetry. Laura Nyro is quite poetic, though, and Tori Amos is pretty poetic (in a distant sort of way.)

I picked Joni Mitchell, though I only really liked the hits she had in the 80s.  She had a BIG hit here in 1988 with a Peter Gabriel duet called "My Secret Place".  Loved that song then, and I still love it today :)

I picked Joni Mitchell, though I only really liked the hits she had in the 80s.  She had a BIG hit here in 1988 with a Peter Gabriel duet called "My Secret Place".  Loved that song then, and I still love it today :)


Is that because she's Canada?  :D Bob Dylan could almost be considered Canadian, as he was born very near the border in Duluth, Minnesota.

Is that because she's Canada?  :D Bob Dylan could almost be considered Canadian, as he was born very near the border in Duluth, Minnesota.


Bob Dylan's work was created by the outsider mentality. He grew up in Hibbing, Minnesota as like the only Jew in town, in a rural mining area of the iron ore rich Mesabi Range.

Is that because she's Canada?  :D Bob Dylan could almost be considered Canadian, as he was born very near the border in Duluth, Minnesota.


She isn't Canada.  Canada is a country, she is a person.  Whatsamattau :P

Joni. I can't get enough of "Help Me".

Joni..gotta love Both Sides Now among others  :)

Joni..gotta love Both Sides Now among others  :)


Definitely!

Definitely!


8) ;)

i was turned onto it by the movie Love,Actually..the version by Judy Collins is good but it's no Joni  :)

8) ;)

i was turned onto it by the movie Love,Actually..the version by Judy Collins is good but it's no Joni  :)


lol - I see what you are saying!

Joni. I can't get enough of "Help Me".


Help me, I think I'm falling in love again, when I get that crazy feeling I know I'm in trouble again, I'm in trouble because I'm a rambler and a gambler and a sweet talking ladies' man, and I love our loving, but not like we love our freedom...that was from memory  ;)

Help me, I think I'm falling in love again, when I get that crazy feeling I know I'm in trouble again, I'm in trouble because I'm a rambler and a gambler and a sweet talking ladies' man, and I love our loving, but not like we love our freedom...that was from memory  ;)



So THAT'S who sings that song. 

Mr. Zimmerman has my vote. A great poet, and I may be the only one, but I love his voice.

^ I agree, Dom! I like some of Joni Mitchell's stuff, but if she hadn't done that God-forsaken Taxi song, I may like her more. That song drives me to tears (and the people who did the recent remake). Bob Dylan, although I don't like ALL his work, I still like his melodies more when I listen to his stuff.

Hmm...not a lot to choose from, but I went with Dylan just because I don't really care for Joni Mitchell.

Joni Mitchell (Roberta Joan Anderson) for Both Sides Now!

NEITHER!!!!

oh my god i simply despise both of them.  Neither of them can really sing.  Well, maybe Joni can sing, but Dylan has a disgustingly ugly off-key voice and i don't understand why he's gotten any credit whatsoever for anything he's done!! He should be considered a joke.

Joni writes boring lyrics.  She's just dull.

They both have an inflated sense of self-importance.  Neither of them are worth a damn.

NEITHER!!!!

oh my god i simply despise both of them.  Neither of them can really sing.  Well, maybe Joni can sing, but Dylan has a disgustingly ugly off-key voice and i don't understand why he's gotten any credit whatsoever for anything he's done!! He should be considered a joke.

Joni writes boring lyrics.  She's just dull.

They both have an inflated sense of self-importance.  Neither of them are worth a damn.


I agree about the inflated sense of self-importance. Dylan: 'I just look at some of the stuff I've done, like the alliteration, and it just blows me away.' or something like that...

I put Joni, though i really don't listen to either.
I really am just so sick of Bob, although i totally appreciate him. 

Joni Mitchell (Roberta Joan Anderson) for Both Sides Now!


I believe 'Both Sides Now' was by Judy Collins...not Joni Mitchell!

I believe 'Both Sides Now' was by Judy Collins...not Joni Mitchell!
Joni Mitchell wrote the song and was used in the movie Love Actually.

Joni Mitchell wrote the song and was used in the movie Love Actually.


Ah, I see... :)

I believe 'Both Sides Now' was by Judy Collins...not Joni Mitchell!


"Both Sides" now was written by Ms. Mitchell and then covered promptly by Ms. Collins.

"Both Sides" now was written by Ms. Mitchell and then covered promptly by Ms. Collins.


It can be annoying how cover versions are mistaken for the original, and people give them credit for the song. E.g. 'Blowin' in the Wind' by Joan Baez, 'Turn, Turn, Turn!' by the Byrds, and 'All Along the Watchtower' by the Jimi Hendrix Experience. All were of course originally written by one Robert Zimmerman.

I agree about the inflated sense of self-importance. Dylan: 'I just look at some of the stuff I've done, like the alliteration, and it just blows me away.' or something like that...



I've seen that quote ;D

It can be annoying how cover versions are mistaken for the original, and people give them credit for the song. E.g. 'Blowin' in the Wind' by Joan Baez, 'Turn, Turn, Turn!' by the Byrds, and 'All Along the Watchtower' by the Jimi Hendrix Experience. All were of course originally written by one Robert Zimmerman.




You scared me for a minute! I thought you were saying those were the originals, not Dylan's...

It can be annoying how cover versions are mistaken for the original, and people give them credit for the song. E.g. 'Blowin' in the Wind' by Joan Baez, 'Turn, Turn, Turn!' by the Byrds, and 'All Along the Watchtower' by the Jimi Hendrix Experience. All were of course originally written by one Robert Zimmerman.


Turn, Turn, Turn, was words from The Bible (Book of Ecclesiastes) and the music by Peter Seeger. Not by Bob Dylan.

It can be annoying how cover versions are mistaken for the original, and people give them credit for the song. E.g. 'Blowin' in the Wind' by Joan Baez, 'Turn, Turn, Turn!' by the Byrds, and 'All Along the Watchtower' by the Jimi Hendrix Experience. All were of course originally written by one Robert Zimmerman.




The thing about Joni Mitchell is that the commonly known songs ("Chelsea Morning", "Big Yellow Taxi", "Woodstock", "The Circle Game", "Both Sides Now") from about 1967-1970, are far from her best work, so she's misconceived as being some folk princess. Her best work comes from much later...you can't judge her based on the '60s stuff. Her catalogue from the '70s is far more extensive, varied, and artistic than Robert Zimmerman...and less hyped.