Rock n' Roll was here to stay with all it's variations but it was the Folk Artists with there message songs that really set the seeds for change in this country in the 60's along with the Beatlemania revolution craze. I think Peter, Paul and Mary were the roots of the movement and Bob Dillon was given the glory for it, what other Folk Artists should get reccognition also?

Hot Wax

Folk music was here LONG before the 60s. Leadbelly, Pete Seeger, and Woody Guthrie were VERY popular back in the 30s. In fact, many of the Peter, Paul, and Mary's songs were written by Pete and/or Woody. Pete was in a group first called The Almanac Singers and then they changed their name to the Weavers.


I once heard of a bumper sticker that said, "If I had a hammer, there would be no folk singers."  ;)





Cat

Joni Mitchell definitely was one of the best!

Tanya

i like leonard cohen

Folk music was here LONG before the 60s. Leadbelly, Pete Seeger, and Woody Guthrie were VERY popular back in the 30s. In fact, many of the Peter, Paul, and Mary's songs were written by Pete and/or Woody. Pete was in a group first called The Almanac Singers and then they changed their name to the Weavers.


I once heard of a bumper sticker that said, "If I had a hammer, there would be no folk singers."  ;)





Cat



Yeah I know that folk singers go back even futher than those guys, but in the early 60's the music became mainstream along with Rock n' Roll on the radio and the their words struck a nerve in a generation of kids that were being brained washed by the establishment to go to war and die for your countries big businesses and corrupt politians. I think it was the folk song "Blowing in the Wind" was like the anthem for the baby boomers and started the movement to openly protest the Viet Nam War and began the "Hippy Generation" to where groups like "Country Joe and the Fish" wrote songs against the war that were so graphic they were banned in Boston.

My topic should have read "I think the 60's Folk music started our cultural changes...what's your thoughts on this?" 

I was rushing and it was to late to change my post, so if any one reads this my second entry is what I'm after

I have an early Simon & Garfunkel album (from the mid 60s) :

"Wednesday Morning, 3 a.m."

On the cover it says "Exciting new sounds in the folk tradition"


I think it contains some of their best stuff  :)

I once heard of a bumper sticker that said, "If I had a hammer, there would be no folk singers."  ;)
Cat


LOL  ;D

Bob Dylan was definitely my favorite folk singer.
Blonde on Blonde is my favorite Dylan album.
My older brother was a Kingston Trio fan tho.

          http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200/drP400/P441/P44113CBMIG.jpg http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200/drP400/P451/P45159DXKVF.jpg
             

Yeah I know that folk singers go back even futher than those guys, but in the early 60's the music became mainstream along with Rock n' Roll on the radio and the their words struck a nerve in a generation of kids that were being brained washed by the establishment to go to war and die for your countries big businesses and corrupt politians. I think it was the folk song "Blowing in the Wind" was like the anthem for the baby boomers and started the movement to openly protest the Viet Nam War and began the "Hippy Generation" to where groups like "Country Joe and the Fish" wrote songs against the war that were so graphic they were banned in Boston.

My topic should have read "I think the 60's Folk music started our cultural changes...what's your thoughts on this?" 

I was rushing and it was to late to change my post, so if any one reads this my second entry is what I'm after



I understand what you mean about 60s folk music starting the counter-cultural, but I still feel that the baby boomers took their cues from generations past. Many of the early folk music was basically protest music (if you look at Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land"-not just the first two verses that most people know but all the other verses-definately a protest song). If you have listened to the CD of Woodstock, Joan Baez sings a song called Joe Hill. Granted she was singing it for her husband who was in jail for dodging the draft but the song was orginally an old Wobbley song about one of its leaders-Joe Hill, who was murdered by the feds for trying to start a union.

I am not saying that folk music in the 60s DID NOT add to the counter-cultural. I do think that the 60s folk music did add to it. But, I still think it was started long before the 60s-and long before the baby boomers.


Oh, and one more thing I would like to add-I really think that your thread is a WONDERFUL topic for discussion (I should have mentioned that in my last post.)




Cat

Rock n' Roll was here to stay with all it's variations but it was the Folk Artists with there message songs that really set the seeds for change in this country in the 60's along with the Beatlemania revolution craze. I think Peter, Paul and Mary were the roots of the movement and Bob Dillon was given the glory for it, what other Folk Artists should get reccognition also?

Hot Wax


PP&M and "Puff (The Magic Dragon)" -- one of the first songs I ever liked.  ;D

(Well, that and Barbara Lewis' "Hello Stranger")

I understand what you mean about 60s folk music starting the counter-cultural, but I still feel that the baby boomers took their cues from generations past. Many of the early folk music was basically protest music (if you look at Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land"-not just the first two verses that most people know but all the other verses-definately a protest song). If you have listened to the CD of Woodstock, Joan Baez sings a song called Joe Hill. Granted she was singing it for her husband who was in jail for dodging the draft but the song was orginally an old Wobbley song about one of its leaders-Joe Hill, who was murdered by the feds for trying to start a union.

I am not saying that folk music in the 60s DID NOT add to the counter-cultural. I do think that the 60s folk music did add to it. But, I still think it was started long before the 60s-and long before the baby boomers.


Oh, and one more thing I would like to add-I really think that your thread is a WONDERFUL topic for discussion (I should have mentioned that in my last post.)




Cat


Hey Cat, I like this, it sounds like you a lot more to offer on Folk music and their Artists, don't hold back I'm learning from you about a form of music that really didn't interest me when I was a kid, I was brought up on Rock and Dowop in the city and thought was Folk was form of Hill Billy mountain music and couldn't relate to it. I guess it was due to the first folk song that I could remember, it was in the late 50's when I was a boy scout at camp and there was a councilor who played a 45 rpm record about a man named Charlie who got on a train in Boston and could never get off it and never returned to his wife, he played that song over and over and over in his cabin for 2 weeks, needless to say what little I knew of folk music then I wanted to know nothing more of it afterwards and thought it was for nerds and s**t kickers only and didn't want any part of it.

I listened to the words of "Blowin' in the Wind" by Peter Paul and Mary and it hit a nerve, it woke me up to a new view on my life, then I got into Bob Dylan's folk rock and his message lyrics but that's extent of my knowledge other then what I think it did to influence the cultural change in America. I liked Arlo Guntry's song "Alice's Resturaunt" too, the movie was ok also.     

I'm going to look into the history of Folk music the Artists as you mentioned few, can you suggest any books on the subject? and I'll search the internet also.

Thanks Cat! Hot Wax  ;)

The Kingston Trio sang about Charlie and how he couldn't get off of the MTA

Hey Cat, I like this, it sounds like you a lot more to offer on Folk music and their Artists, don't hold back I'm learning from you about a form of music that really didn't interest me when I was a kid, I was brought up on Rock and Dowop in the city and thought was Folk was form of Hill Billy mountain music and couldn't relate to it. I guess it was due to the first folk song that I could remember, it was in the late 50's when I was a boy scout at camp and there was a councilor who played a 45 rpm record about a man named Charlie who got on a train in Boston and could never get off it and never returned to his wife, he played that song over and over and over in his cabin for 2 weeks, needless to say what little I knew of folk music then I wanted to know nothing more of it afterwards and thought it was for nerds and s**t kickers only and didn't want any part of it.

I listened to the words of "Blowin' in the Wind" by Peter Paul and Mary and it hit a nerve, it woke me up to a new view on my life, then I got into Bob Dylan's folk rock and his message lyrics but that's extent of my knowledge other then what I think it did to influence the cultural change in America. I liked Arlo Guntry's song "Alice's Resturaunt" too, the movie was ok also.     

I'm going to look into the history of Folk music the Artists as you mentioned few, can you suggest any books on the subject? and I'll search the internet also.

Thanks Cat! Hot Wax  ;)



My knowledge of the subject is actually very limited. The person you should really talk to is Don Carlos (but he only hangs out on the political boards). PM him and he will answer all your questions and give you more of info than I can. But, I can give you some names of who you can start looking up. I already mentioned Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie (Arlo's dad), and Pete Seeger. Others are  Phil Ochs, Utah Phillips, Cisco Houton, and Odetta. There were many more. But, like I said, PM Don Carlos, he can give you a lot more info than I can.




Cat

   

I'm going to look into the history of Folk music the Artists as you mentioned few, can you suggest any books on the subject? and I'll search the internet also.

Thanks Cat! Hot Wax  ;)


"Positively Fourth Street"  by David Hadju is a good book on The Dylan/Baez Greenwich Village scene. I suggest anyone who wants to hear a real protest singer to listen to Phil Ochs.  There are a couple of
biographys but be warned, as good as he was as a protest singer he was as sleazy as a human being.  I have avoided reading the biographys of his life because of the negative feelings for him aroused by some of his biggest fans after reading about him.  Richard Farina, husband of Joan Baezs sister Mimi and good friend(and rival) of Dylan wrote a book called "Been Down So Long Looks Like Up to Me".  I read it decades ago.  If you want to go earlier look into Pete Seeger, and a group called "the Weavers".
Hope this helps.

"Positively Fourth Street"  by David Hadju is a good book on The Dylan/Baez Greenwich Village scene. I suggest anyone who wants to hear a real protest singer to listen to Phil Ochs.  There are a couple of
biographys but be warned, as good as he was as a protest singer he was as sleazy as a human being.  I have avoided reading the biographys of his life because of the negative feelings for him aroused by some of his biggest fans after reading about him.  Richard Farina, husband of Joan Baezs sister Mimi and good friend(and rival) of Dylan wrote a book called "Been Down So Long Looks Like Up to Me".  I read it decades ago.  If you want to go earlier look into Pete Seeger, and a group called "the Weavers".
Hope this helps.


Thank you D & M, the more I'am reading everyone's input the more I'm realizing that there's more to Folk music than a "sing song". I getting more interested in this form of music I guess it's because I think I can relate to these types Artists and thier message music. I'm going to get Dylan's book and seek out other  information on the web to get to know them better...

Now that I think of it, I'm sorry now that I didn't pay more attention at the time, but who knew back then that when us guys used to bus over to the Village in the early 60's and go coffee house and bar hopping, that maybe we were listening to Dylan and not even knowing it...We were a little younger then the 18 year old drinking age but were served anyway and used to go to the coffee houses mainly the Hungry Eye to sober up while listening to the poets and folk singers do their bits...I probably listened to Dylan or all of the singers you mentioned and didn't know it...such is life!

Thanks again, talk to you soon. Hot Wax

i like leonard cohen


Don't know who he is? but I'll I will check out his work. Thanks!

Hot Wax

Joni Mitchell definitely was one of the best!

Tanya


Hi Tanya, I know more of Joni Mitchell music but only her 70's work, I'll check out her career and her part in the 60's cultural change, Thanks for the information.

Hot Wax 

I have an early Simon & Garfunkel album (from the mid 60s) :

"Wednesday Morning, 3 a.m."

On the cover it says "Exciting new sounds in the folk tradition"


I think it contains some of their best stuff  :)


Hey Fuss...! that's what I'm saying in the 60's folk music as it was presented to us in the mass media was through the camouflage of Rock n' Roll. I love Simon & Garfunkel music I play their "Bridge over Trouble Waters" all the time the on album tape and now disc...great sound, different for the mid 60's rock sound but not folk tradition either and if you were a die hard folk freak you might have been disappointed.

I don't have that album, I'm going to see if I can order it tonight. Thanks for the good stuff.

Hot Wax

Bob Dylan was definitely my favorite folk singer.
Blonde on Blonde is my favorite Dylan album.
My older brother was a Kingston Trio fan tho.


Yeah, I guess as of now Bob Dylan is the only Folk/Rock singer I can say that I...he's the only one I really know. He was all folk until he crossed over to the electric guitar and was accompanied by the the organ player, thus folk/rock was born...his die hard folk freak fans hated him for selling out but gained millions of new fans and followers, who like me were only rockers and didn't like folk but his unique looks and message music stood alone and inspired me and my generation to change things that were wrong with America...Bob Dyan says he is only a song singer, that's all and nothing more...did he ever read a newspaper in the 60's?...but, enough of this?

Thanks for your reply! I appreciated it.

Hot Wax

PP&M and "Puff (The Magic Dragon)" -- one of the first songs I ever liked.  ;D

(Well, that and Barbara Lewis' "Hello Stranger")



Z! I think it was was in 62/63' that "Puff" was a hit, again being a Rock fan this music was killing me back then it was a goofy song and couldn't relate to it...until someone told me to listen to the words and think of what they really mean...I still didn't get...then he he gave me a joint and said puff this magic dragon...then I got it!...DUH! or maybe that's what we wanted to think what it meant...anyway folk music and PP&M were cooler then any rock group at that time! then the Beatles arrived and Lucy pushed Puff to the back ground and the Stone's gave "Mother her Little Helpers" and Gracie's "White Rabbit" had any mood you wanted in a bottle but Puff was mainstream and a constant companion to the majority and to some Puff is still the only Magic Dragon that is kept in around for companionship...so they tell me!

Thanks Z.

Hot Wax       

My knowledge of the subject is actually very limited. The person you should really talk to is Don Carlos (but he only hangs out on the political boards). PM him and he will answer all your questions and give you more of info than I can. But, I can give you some names of who you can start looking up. I already mentioned Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie (Arlo's dad), and Pete Seeger. Others are  Phil Ochs, Utah Phillips, Cisco Houton, and Odetta. There were many more. But, like I said, PM Don Carlos, he can give you a lot more info than I can.




Cat


Hi Cat, I'll think I'll get in touch with Don Carlos after I read up on all the others first because at this point i don't even know what to ask him, but I'll let this interest take a life of it's own in time and maybe I could have a have some sort of an inteligent conversation with him. I'll let you know.

Thanks Cat.

Hot Wax

In general, I'm not too crazy about the substance of protest songs, I tend to prefer more patriotic songs and things like "Tie A Yellow Ribbon", "God Bless The USA", etc...

But I do like the folk music in general because it was so pure, they just put their feelings in words and sang.  They didn't try to do crazy stuff with their voices, etc. 

I love "Bridge Over Troubled Water" by Simon & Garfunkel, "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" by Joan Baez, and there are a few others but I don't know the titles...

The Kingston Trio sang about Charlie and how he couldn't get off of the MTA


Thanks schmarty', ...I really hate that song! 


Hot

I'd have to say my fave is Joan Baez. Not most of the messages, just that throaty delivery. I like the voice!W.

Hey Fuss...! that's what I'm saying in the 60's folk music as it was presented to us in the mass media was through the camouflage of Rock n' Roll. I love Simon & Garfunkel music I play their "Bridge over Trouble Waters" all the time the on album tape and now disc...great sound, different for the mid 60's rock sound but not folk tradition either and if you were a die hard folk freak you might have been disappointed.

I don't have that album, I'm going to see if I can order it tonight. Thanks for the good stuff.

Hot Wax


Ah !  You are most welcome !  :)

Hope you like it  ;)

Gordon Lightfoot
Donovan

This is a folk music thread about the 60s, and no one even mentioned Tom Rush? Wtf?

Joan Baez
Bob Dylan
Simon & Garfunkel

Never really liked folk aside from a few artists/songs; i.e. Dylan's 'Mr. Tambourine Man', 'A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall' some older folk stuff in the vein of Woodie Guthrie. To me the folk movement was a little self-pretentious; as if we're the activists, and by singing we're the only ones doing anything to stop the 'evils of imperialism and capitalism.' Unlike many others, I don't worship Dylan as any great innovator. He a terrible singer (others may disagree lol), a half-decent songwriter, a slightly below average poet, but an incredible motivator.

[quote author=

These and Joni Mitchell and Judy Collins.  I'm a folk fan.



My dad loves Judy Collins.  He's got a few live albums of hers.  I like her version of "Amazing Grace".  Never fails to put a chill down my spine.

I like Dylan, but I think less and less of him as time goes on and I've gotten into Joni Mitchell and Laura Nyro. He was more great at making things sound good than actually having substance of itself. He was very good at creating a vial to put substance into. But Laura Nyro and Joni Mitchell are underappreciated and to me have more emotional power and are better and more intriguing musicians/composers, though Laura Nyro was always underappreciated. Judy Collins-I grew up on her. Joni Mitchell is probably overall my favorite, though her music can't simply be characterized as folk.

[quote author=

Joni Mitchell is probably overall my favorite, though her music can't simply be characterized as folk.


I would have to say that Joni is my overall fav too.  And I tend to put her more in the jazz category than folk now that you mention it.  She's got a great style and incredible vocal chops.

[quote author=

8) The Brothers Four (green fields), The Kingston Trio (hand down your head tom dooley), Tiny Tim (tip toe thrue the tulips :D)

Her "Both Sides Now" from '68, is my favorite by her. "Send In The Clowns" from '75, is kind of an odd song. I don't think you could make a song like SITC in the decades after the '70s.



Both Sides Now is a Joni Mitchell song. ;)

What about Hoyt Axton? I'd consider him more folk than country, and his best album came out in 1969, My Griffin Is Gone.

Her "Both Sides Now" from '68, is my favorite by her. "Send In The Clowns" from '75, is kind of an odd song. I don't think you could make a song like SITC in the decades after the '70s.






FYI-Send in the Clowns is from the musical A Little Night Music written by Stephen Sondheim (who wrote the music/lyrics to Sweeny Todd, Gypsy, and West Side Story-lyrics only, and many other shows). Judy Collins saw the show and loved the song and had to record it. Personally, I like the way Glynis Johns (who sings it on the Broadway Album) better than Judy Collins does it. But that is personal taste.



Cat

8) The Brothers Four (green fields), The Kingston Trio (hand down your head tom dooley), Tiny Tim (tip toe thrue the tulips :D)


LOVE the Kingston Trio.  My parents were big fans and I grew up hearing their stuff.

I'd have to say now, Simon and Garfunkel. And Bob Dylan, although his later stuff..like Nashville Skyline...and the Byrds who covered a couple of Dylan songs and made them popular.