This poll is not asking whether they should be inducted, only whether they deserve to be nominated. 

A lot of people are surprised when they find out the Monkees have not already been inducted and the fact that the Monkees have never even been nominated has  been a big bone of contention with the core fan base since the Monkees first became eligible.  What do you think? 

Poll settings:
One vote per user, you may change your vote, you may see results after you vote, no expiration date... it ends when it scrolls off and people forget it's there. 

I have mixed opinions...

Undecided too...

...would it count against them that their early efforts relied heavily on the use of 'session men'? I'm uncertain as to whether this would hinder their chances...

...certainly trotted out some fine tunes, tho'...

I voted yes b/c I like them. However, I can certainly understand why they haven't been b/c the vast majority of their work relied solely on the work of session members.

Tanya

I voted yes because they did contribute to the world of music and had how many top ten hits?




Cat

I voted yes mainly because I love the Monkees.

Undecided too...

...would it count against them that their early efforts relied heavily on the use of 'session men'? I'm uncertain as to whether this would hinder their chances...



It probably does count against The Monkees, but it didn't count against Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers or The Mamas and Papas or any of the other vocal groups who have already been inducted.  (Not to mention that heavy utilization of sessionmen on some of their recordings is probably what boosted the Beach Boys into being shoo-ins the instant they became eligible and definitely adds to their critical acclaim and credibility as serious artists.)

no..the Monkees were a tv show.

Thier 1st 2 albums were great.....the nd one (More Of The Monkees) was my favorite..but for as much as I love them the fact remains that they didn't play on those records....not entirely thier fault. Before they get a nomination I'd rather see Three Dog Night get in...now THAT was a great group ;)

Yes

I know The Moody Blues should be in the hall of fame before the Monkees.
I'm assuming talent has at least something to do with it.

I know The Moody Blues should be in the hall of fame before the Monkees.
I'm assuming talent has at least something to do with it.



I can tell you exactly why the Moody Blues aren't in and why they probably won't get in any time soon... even if they're easily considered the most innovative, influential, important band ever to exist.  They're considered progressive music and for some reason, that entire genre has been blatantly excluded/snubbed  by the HoF.   

This poll doesn't ask whether the Monkees should be inducted and it doesn't ask whether the Monkees deserve a nomination more than anyone else who's been overlooked.  Lots of artists who have never been nominated deserve, at the very least, a token nomination.  The question is, are The Monkees included in that group of artists who've been wrongfully excluded from the nominations or are they among those who've been rightfully excluded from the nominations? 

Does talent have anything to do with it?  No.  It's supposed to be about  innovation, influence and impact/importance.  But, when you look at the list of inductees and compare some of the least innovative, influential and important names on it to some of the most innovative, influential and important eligible names who are conspicuously absent, the HoF doesn't seem to nominate or induct according to any criteria, at all.  With most of those overlooked groups, it's painfully obvious they've been wrongly overlooked.  Because of the stigma attached to The Monkees name, it's not as obvious whether the Monkees are being purposely slighted or whether it was decided, after careful and fair consideration, that they don't deserve even a nomination.

Do The Monkees meet any of the criteria?  Yes. 
 
The Monkees "formula" is the archetype still used for boy bands and they are considered THE influence for the boy band crazes of the 80s and 90s.  Both Ron Perlman and Simon Fuller have admitted to following the Monkees formula and cite The Monkees as the inspiration for their manufactured artists.  The Monkees are cited as a major influence even by more respectable (in HoF terms) bands, most notably REM.  The Monkees were the first to use sythesizers on popular music recordings (the Moog synthesizer on Star Collector and Daily Nightly from the Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Jones LTD album... both of these songs got video treatment for use on the series.)  The Monkees are generally credited with mainstreaming country rock to younger pop audiences, paving the way for the country/southern rock explosion of the 70s.  The Monkees are generally credited with opening up the pop music industry to a broader, multi-generational market.  The Monkees were the first to use rear projection in concert.  The successful marriage of music and episodic television as a vehicle for sales of Monkees albums, singles and concert tickets helped pave the way for MTV (which, coincidentally, was "invented" by former Monkee, Michael Nesmith -- also snubbed by the HoF -- for whom the Music Video Grammy award category was created after he released the first ever video album... which, of course, won.)  Etc....

For meeting the criteria and because for every valid argument (and even some invalid arguments based on  myth) that can be made against them there is at least one inductee against whom the same argument could be made, I think they do deserve, at the very least, a token nomination and are in the group of artists who've been wrongfully excluded.

MooRocca..dang..you have convinced me..good job..you've changed my mind..my answer is now yes :)

Absolutely. :)

I can tell you exactly why the Moody Blues aren't in and why they probably won't get in any time soon... even if they're easily considered the most innovative, influential, important band ever to exist.  They're considered progressive music and for some reason, that entire genre has been blatantly excluded/snubbed  by the HoF.   

This poll doesn't ask whether the Monkees should be inducted and it doesn't ask whether the Monkees deserve a nomination more than anyone else who's been overlooked.  Lots of artists who have never been nominated deserve, at the very least, a token nomination.  The question is, are The Monkees included in that group of artists who've been wrongfully excluded from the nominations or are they among those who've been rightfully excluded from the nominations? 

Does talent have anything to do with it?  No.  It's supposed to be about  innovation, influence and impact/importance.  But, when you look at the list of inductees and compare some of the least innovative, influential and important names on it to some of the most innovative, influential and important eligible names who are conspicuously absent, the HoF doesn't seem to nominate or induct according to any criteria, at all.  With most of those overlooked groups, it's painfully obvious they've been wrongly overlooked.  Because of the stigma attached to The Monkees name, it's not as obvious whether the Monkees are being purposely slighted or whether it was decided, after careful and fair consideration, that they don't deserve even a nomination.

Do The Monkees meet any of the criteria?  Yes. 
 
The Monkees "formula" is the archetype still used for boy bands and they are considered THE influence for the boy band crazes of the 80s and 90s.  Both Ron Perlman and Simon Fuller have admitted to following the Monkees formula and cite The Monkees as the inspiration for their manufactured artists.  The Monkees are cited as a major influence even by more respectable (in HoF terms) bands, most notably REM.  The Monkees were the first to use sythesizers on popular music recordings (the Moog synthesizer on Star Collector and Daily Nightly from the Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Jones LTD album... both of these songs got video treatment for use on the series.)  The Monkees are generally credited with mainstreaming country rock to younger pop audiences, paving the way for the country/southern rock explosion of the 70s.  The Monkees are generally credited with opening up the pop music industry to a broader, multi-generational market.  The Monkees were the first to use rear projection in concert.  The successful marriage of music and episodic television as a vehicle for sales of Monkees albums, singles and concert tickets helped pave the way for MTV (which, coincidentally, was "invented" by former Monkee, Michael Nesmith -- also snubbed by the HoF -- for whom the Music Video Grammy award category was created after he released the first ever video album... which, of course, won.)  Etc....

For meeting the criteria and because for every valid argument (and even some invalid arguments based on  myth) that can be made against them there is at least one inductee against whom the same argument could be made, I think they do deserve, at the very least, a token nomination and are in the group of artists who've been wrongfully excluded.



I would say this should put them in the mass marketing hall of fame

Yes

Monkees in the R&R Hall of Fame?.......NAAAAAAAA!

They were manufactured for the TV show, although they were good and had some good cuts and were better then most of those teeny bopper groups of that time. But come on, the Hall of Fame?

They were art imitating life imitating art that's all, but I'm open to change my mind if you have some good reasons why they should get a shot at the Hall...got any?


Hot Wax

I can tell you exactly why the Moody Blues aren't in and why they probably won't get in any time soon... even if they're easily considered the most innovative, influential, important band ever to exist.  They're considered progressive music and for some reason, that entire genre has been blatantly excluded/snubbed  by the HoF.   

This poll doesn't ask whether the Monkees should be inducted and it doesn't ask whether the Monkees deserve a nomination more than anyone else who's been overlooked.  Lots of artists who have never been nominated deserve, at the very least, a token nomination.  The question is, are The Monkees included in that group of artists who've been wrongfully excluded from the nominations or are they among those who've been rightfully excluded from the nominations? 

Does talent have anything to do with it?  No.  It's supposed to be about  innovation, influence and impact/importance.  But, when you look at the list of inductees and compare some of the least innovative, influential and important names on it to some of the most innovative, influential and important eligible names who are conspicuously absent, the HoF doesn't seem to nominate or induct according to any criteria, at all.   With most of those overlooked groups, it's painfully obvious they've been wrongly overlooked.   Because of the stigma attached to The Monkees name, it's not as obvious whether the Monkees are being purposely slighted or whether it was decided, after careful and fair consideration, that they don't deserve even a nomination.

Do The Monkees meet any of the criteria?  Yes. 
 
The Monkees "formula" is the archetype still used for boy bands and they are considered THE influence for the boy band crazes of the 80s and 90s.  Both Ron Perlman and Simon Fuller have admitted to following the Monkees formula and cite The Monkees as the inspiration for their manufactured artists.  The Monkees are cited as a major influence even by more respectable (in HoF terms) bands, most notably REM.  The Monkees were the first to use sythesizers on popular music recordings (the Moog synthesizer on Star Collector and Daily Nightly from the Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Jones LTD album... both of these songs got video treatment for use on the series.)   The Monkees are generally credited with mainstreaming country rock to younger pop audiences, paving the way for the country/southern rock explosion of the 70s.  The Monkees are generally credited with opening up the pop music industry to a broader, multi-generational market.  The Monkees were the first to use rear projection in concert.  The successful marriage of music and episodic television as a vehicle for sales of Monkees albums, singles and concert tickets helped pave the way for MTV (which, coincidentally, was "invented" by former Monkee, Michael Nesmith -- also snubbed by the HoF -- for whom the Music Video Grammy award category was created after he released the first ever video album... which, of course, won.)   Etc....

For meeting the criteria and because for every valid argument (and even some invalid arguments based on  myth) that can be made against them there is at least one inductee against whom the same argument could be made, I think they do deserve, at the very least, a token nomination and are in the group of artists who've been wrongfully excluded.





MooRocca link, I'm sorry but I didn't read your argument before I wrote my first reply.

You present a good argument why they should get thier shot at the Hall, but their not what the Hall is all about, they were only a desent sing song group and only because they were presented to the TV audience as a ligitament band they made us think that they were.They had milloins of dollars behind them to promote the "Monkees" as a TV program mimicking the Beatles and their movies and not them as a real band, only goofy kids playing out goofy plots for TV who had a band, and that's how I've always thought them as...goofy kid actors, nothing more.

Maybe as individuals they should be concidered for their music accomplishments but not as a ligitament band.

Hot Wax

...but not as a ligitament band.


They in fact became a legitimate band, without question. The mere fact that they play their own instruments is a testimony to that by definition.

sure

They in fact became a legitimate band, without question. The mere fact that they play their own instruments is a testimony to that by definition.



Hairspray, they were the same as the Partridge Family...a made for TV only. When I saw Micky Dolance play the drums he looked liked it was dubbed in with a real professional drummer and always will remember him as the Circus Boy.

Hot Wax

Hairspray, they were the same as the Partridge Family...

Hot Wax


But the PF didn't tour the world as a musical group/band. The Monkees have been touring off and on, in one form or another, since the late 60's and playing their own instruments. That differentiates them from the Partridge family quite a bit. By the way, I too remember Mickey Dolenz as the Circus Boy. :)

But the PF didn't tour the world as a musical group/band. The Monkees have been touring off and on, in one form or another, since the late 60's and playing their own instruments. That differentiates them from the Partridge family quite a bit. By the way, I too remember Mickey Dolenz as the Circus Boy. :)


come on...come on...come on, do you really think a Hall of Fame band? They were a cookie punch group of that time only they were put together by auditioning for TV producers and after dozens of other want-a-be Monkees who were as good as or maybe better than them but couldn't pass the comedic demands of their "roles"...just think, if maybe Mickey Dolenz (not Dolance) was on another acting job at the time and missed the call who would you think could have been in his place?...how about Desi Arnez Jr., he fit the part. I honestly don't know where the other guys originally came from to form the Monkees, but they where individually talented and maybe in a different musical career they could have made it to the Hall but having to live with being a Monkee was a downer to their musical career and people like me didn't take their musical talent serious... only good for a laugh as why they were created in the first place! 

I do like our " Point Counter-Point " discussion...I think we'll do it again soon.

Hot Wax  

Undecided. They are sure a part of the classic rock history but don't know if they belong there.

...do you really think a Hall of Fame band?

Hot Wax  



Sure! Why not? I mean, really, they did make legitimate contributions to the music industry and to their credit, aside from playing their own instruments and using their voices to entertain us, they also wrote quite a few of their own tunes. They've had chart-topping tunes that are forever etched in our memory, for better or for worse. I think their combination of folk music and contemporary rock made them, in my opinion, just as appealing as The Mamas & The Papas and The Beatles, two of their main inspirations.

I give The Monkees their due credit. I think they do deserve a nomination in the R&RHF. I agree with MooRocca. I guess you, Hot Wax, and I will have to agree to disagree. It's all good. We can't all share the same opinion. Frankly, these forums would probably get pretty boring if we did.

Sure! Why not? I mean, really, they did make legitimate contributions to the music industry and to their credit, aside from playing their own instruments and using their voices to entertain us, they also wrote quite a few of their own tunes. They've had chart-topping tunes that are forever etched in our memory, for better or for worse. I think their combination of folk music and contemporary rock made them, in my opinion, just as appealing as The Mamas & The Papas and The Beatles, two of their main inspirations.

I give The Monkees their due credit. I think they do deserve a nomination in the R&RHF. I agree with MooRocca. I guess you, Hot Wax, and I will have to agree to disagree. It's all good. We can't all share the same opinion. Frankly, these forums would probably get pretty boring if we did.



Hairspray, it has been my pleasure...maybe next time I'll be an Allie instead of an opponent.

Hairspray, it has been my pleasure...maybe next time I'll be an Allie instead of an opponent.

Why thank you, Hot Wax. Same here.

I gave them a Yes.  I think they have earned it.  Whether you agreed with the manufactured part of their existence or not, the music was fun and pleasant, and that is what it is all about  :)

I gave them a Yes.  I think they have earned it.  Whether you agreed with the manufactured part of their existence or not, the music was fun and pleasant, and that is what it is all about  :)


Right on. :)

I voted yes, too !

I've always enjoyed their music  :)

Beat me about the head and body if you must but here goes.....While I enjoyed thier songs and singing talent, I don't believe they belong in the Hall Of Fame. They didn't play thier own instruments on the first few LP's...which I own and enjoy....and when they finally did play thier own, the music bombed. Maybe if they were in a separate category like say, POP TV Icons....I mean, I enjoyed The Partridge Family "Music" also but I don't think they are in the Hall ::) Let the beatings begin!

Beat me about the head and body if you must but here goes.....


Oh Mark.....now that's a bit extreme isn't it ? :o :(

I voted yes.  While it's already been mentioned that they were among the first to use the Moog synthesizer and had a hand in modern day MTV, it should be noted that at one point "Headquarters" was outselling The Beatles before "Sgt. Pepper" came out. 

I've seen them in concert twice since 1997 and they DO play their own instruments.  I've been a fan since 1986 and I think they've paid their dues.

Oh Mark.....now that's a bit extreme isn't it ? :o :(
You're right ::) :)

No offense, but the "they didn't play their own instruments" crap went out the window about 37 years ago? The Monkees recorded Headquarters largely themselves, wrote half the songs, and handled the arrangements on virtually all of them!
Someone said, after becoming involved and writing and playing their own stuff, they…BOMBED?
Who told people that? Some staff writer at one of those snobby rock magazines (Rolling Stone) who's always writing tripe like that? They think everyone that's not the Rolling Stones or Aerosmith isn't "WORTHY".
Headquarters went #1, and was certified gold in its original release. The reason it had not hit singles in the U.S.? No singles were released off the album in the U.S.! (Perhaps some spite on the part of Kirshner-ites within Colgems?) In England, the Randy Scouse Git single (written by Dolenz, not even the best track on the album) went #3. Not on the album, but from the same sessions, Girl I Knew Somewhere (by Nesmith), unpromoted, and relegated to the B-side of a Neil Diamond tune, hit the top 40. As a B-side! Headquarters probably would have been #1 for the rest of 1967, but the same summer the Beatles released Sgt. Pepper (a record which some considered to be their pinnacle of achievement, created after years of touring and playing together. Headquarters was only the 3rd Monkees platter, and really the first as a band. Compare it the Beatles Please Please Me album, for a more realistic comparo of the groups’ respective abilities at similar points in their evolution.), which knocked it down to #2.
I like Nesmith’s one time comment on the issue: “Play our own instruments? Well, whose instruments do you suggest we play?”

The fact is, the Monkees are a conundrum. They were not a band. And, they were a band. It depends at which point in their career and in what context which is true.
They are rock legends.
Session men? If you fired every artist in the business that has ever used session men, I don’t think there’d be anybody left! What’s your point?

The Partridge Family? After the problem with the “Monkees rebellion”, Screen Gems purposely selected a cast that were good actors but, with the exception of Cassidy and Shirley Jones, had no musical talent/aspirations. This way, they would not be capable of making music independently of the production company. Ta-Da! No more opinionated, rebellious rock stars to mess up your hit machine. Comparing the Partridges to the Monkees in an artistic sense (though they were both on TV and released records), is like comparing the Beatles to Frank Sinatra, just because they both did movies.
Or, better yet, Burt Reynolds to Steve McQueen because they both did films with car chase scenes. Yet, McQueen was also a real race driver. And, the Monkees could really play.

As for the “commercial” aspect of it:  What’s the matter with people. If you sell records, T-shirts, promote concerts, release videos, etc., they you’re “commercial”.
If being commercial is a downside, nobody belongs in the Rock’n’Roll Hall Of Fame.

Sorry for the rant, but I really am sick of Rock’n’Roll institutions that strike me as nothing more than members only country clubs which rate the significance of artists more on their “hip quotient” and who they no, rather than on talent, hard work, and successes.
When the Monkees give a show today, a lot more people will turn out to see it than would for many of their “hipper” contemporaries from the same era. If they don’t include the Monkees in the RRHOF, it will just serve to convince me they don’t know what they’re doing.
Who am I to question them? I’m Joe Public. I open my wallet and buy the records, the concert tickets, and watch the shows. That’s who Rock’N’Roll is for, not institutions.
I don’t need them to tell me who’s a good artist. The bands don’t need them to either. They know. The only purpose institutions like that service is to provide recognitions for years of quality entertaining. If they’re not going to give that recognition, then who need’s ‘em. The Monkees get it from their fans. But, it is still nice to be recognized when you deserve it. Elvis couldn’t play his way out of a paper bag. What’s that got to do with it? Many people consider him one of the all time greats.
Anyway…
The Monkees are perhaps as good of an example of the ‘60’s counterculture as anyone, and of “Rock’N’Roll rebellion”. The music/arts/entertainment media “establishment” has always been out to get them, and smears them every chance it gets. Like Davy Jones once said: “I think they al just wish we’d have croaked in the ‘70’s. But, we’re all still working.” And the Nay-sayers seem to hate that.
I don’t know why, they are talented, entertaining, and their records are good. They are still popular, more than three decades later, and people still buy their records and go to their concerts, and watch their TV show. What else do you need to be a living legend? An engraved endorsement from GOD?

The above post is just beautiful.  8)

No offense, but the "they didn't play their own instruments" crap went out the window about 37 years ago? The Monkees recorded Headquarters largely themselves, wrote half the songs, and handled the arrangements on virtually all of them!
Someone said, after becoming involved and writing and playing their own stuff, they…BOMBED?
Who told people that? Some staff writer at one of those snobby rock magazines (Rolling Stone) who's always writing tripe like that? They think everyone that's not the Rolling Stones or Aerosmith isn't "WORTHY".
Headquarters went #1, and was certified gold in its original release. The reason it had not hit singles in the U.S.? No singles were released off the album in the U.S.! (Perhaps some spite on the part of Kirshner-ites within Colgems?) In England, the Randy Scouse Git single (written by Dolenz, not even the best track on the album) went #3. Not on the album, but from the same sessions, Girl I Knew Somewhere (by Nesmith), unpromoted, and relegated to the B-side of a Neil Diamond tune, hit the top 40. As a B-side! Headquarters probably would have been #1 for the rest of 1967, but the same summer the Beatles released Sgt. Pepper (a record which some considered to be their pinnacle of achievement, created after years of touring and playing together. Headquarters was only the 3rd Monkees platter, and really the first as a band. Compare it the Beatles Please Please Me album, for a more realistic comparo of the groups’ respective abilities at similar points in their evolution.), which knocked it down to #2.
I like Nesmith’s one time comment on the issue: “Play our own instruments? Well, whose instruments do you suggest we play?”

The fact is, the Monkees are a conundrum. They were not a band. And, they were a band. It depends at which point in their career and in what context which is true.
They are rock legends.
Session men? If you fired every artist in the business that has ever used session men, I don’t think there’d be anybody left! What’s your point?

The Partridge Family? After the problem with the “Monkees rebellion”, Screen Gems purposely selected a cast that were good actors but, with the exception of Cassidy and Shirley Jones, had no musical talent/aspirations. This way, they would not be capable of making music independently of the production company. Ta-Da! No more opinionated, rebellious rock stars to mess up your hit machine. Comparing the Partridges to the Monkees in an artistic sense (though they were both on TV and released records), is like comparing the Beatles to Frank Sinatra, just because they both did movies.
Or, better yet, Burt Reynolds to Steve McQueen because they both did films with car chase scenes. Yet, McQueen was also a real race driver. And, the Monkees could really play.

As for the “commercial” aspect of it:  What’s the matter with people. If you sell records, T-shirts, promote concerts, release videos, etc., they you’re “commercial”.
If being commercial is a downside, nobody belongs in the Rock’n’Roll Hall Of Fame.

Sorry for the rant, but I really am sick of Rock’n’Roll institutions that strike me as nothing more than members only country clubs which rate the significance of artists more on their “hip quotient” and who they no, rather than on talent, hard work, and successes.
When the Monkees give a show today, a lot more people will turn out to see it than would for many of their “hipper” contemporaries from the same era. If they don’t include the Monkees in the RRHOF, it will just serve to convince me they don’t know what they’re doing.
Who am I to question them? I’m Joe Public. I open my wallet and buy the records, the concert tickets, and watch the shows. That’s who Rock’N’Roll is for, not institutions.
I don’t need them to tell me who’s a good artist. The bands don’t need them to either. They know. The only purpose institutions like that service is to provide recognitions for years of quality entertaining. If they’re not going to give that recognition, then who need’s ‘em. The Monkees get it from their fans. But, it is still nice to be recognized when you deserve it. Elvis couldn’t play his way out of a paper bag. What’s that got to do with it? Many people consider him one of the all time greats.
Anyway…
The Monkees are perhaps as good of an example of the ‘60’s counterculture as anyone, and of “Rock’N’Roll rebellion”. The music/arts/entertainment media “establishment” has always been out to get them, and smears them every chance it gets. Like Davy Jones once said: “I think they al just wish we’d have croaked in the ‘70’s. But, we’re all still working.” And the Nay-sayers seem to hate that.
I don’t know why, they are talented, entertaining, and their records are good. They are still popular, more than three decades later, and people still buy their records and go to their concerts, and watch their TV show. What else do you need to be a living legend? An engraved endorsement from GOD?




Nice presentation, but from square one, if it wasn't for some guys in a TV station sitting around in a "Think Tank" trying to come up with a new idea for a TV show and came up with a different concept for  commercial TV this Monkees dicussion wouldn't exist tonight...Sorry! still not Hall worthy as a real rock and roll group.

Maybe in a the Hall can manufacture a special category for manufactured groups to pacify all you rock and roll non-purists.

Hot Wax 

Yes
I mean, look how popular they still are!

Maybe in a the Hall can manufacture a special category for manufactured groups to pacify all you rock and roll non-purists.

Hot Wax   


There is no such thing as "purity" in the way and/or method a group is formed. The circumstances under which the group was formed are irrelevant, IMO.

I find that particular issue quite negligible.

The objection seems more like snobbery, no offense meant.

Yes, indeed!

There is no such thing as "purity" in the way and/or method a group is formed. The circumstances under which the group was formed are irrelevant, IMO.

I find that particular issue quite negligible.

The objection seems more like snobbery, no offense meant.



No offense taken, what it is, is what it is. The "purity" reference is in defense of the "real" Rock n' Roll Artists of the past who shed their blood sweat and tears working and refining their Art from young amateur status to a mature professional on their own learning the business through hard knocks and a lot of disappointments. The very few who were good enough to be discovered while singing or playing in some dive bar got to tour the country in buses doing dozens of one night stands. Away from home with lonely days and nights touring the country to get recognition for their talent and only hope to get a chance to make a recording that will sell to make a living at this trade and for all their efforts most of them were ripped off.

This is not "snobbery", it's defending the real Rock n' Roll Artist who earned their due, this in the "Purist" form of entitlement, not bands manufactured and promoted by big business for their "stock investors" to get rich on...Sorry! the Monkees fall into that category of the "Non-Purist" kind and do not belong in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame as that group. As individuals Artists to the trade maybe they earned their due to get into the Hall, time will tell, but they should not go in as a "Monkee".


Hot Wax

No offense taken, what it is, is what it is. The "purity" reference is in defense of the "real" Rock n' Roll Artists of the past who shed their blood sweat and tears working and refining their Art from young amateur status to a mature professional on their own learning the business through hard knocks and a lot of disappointments. The very few who were good enough to be discovered while singing or playing in some dive bar got to tour the country in buses doing dozens of one night stands. Away from home with lonely days and nights touring the country to get recognition for their talent and only hope to get a chance to make a recording that will sell to make a living at this trade and for all their efforts most of them were ripped off.

This is not "snobbery", it's defending the real Rock n' Roll Artist who earned their due, this in the "Purist" form of entitlement, not bands manufactured and promoted by big business for their "stock investors" to get rich on...Sorry! the Monkees fall into that category of the "Non-Purist" kind and do not belong in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame as that group. As individuals Artists to the trade maybe they earned their due to get into the Hall, time will tell, but they should not go in as a "Monkee".


Hot Wax




I understand your point of view and whether or not I agree with it, I respect your opinion.

Yes, yes, yes, yes ,yes !!!

Maybe they should start a Hall Of Fame for every genre of music. There a lots of artists who've ahd more hits than The Monkees but aren't even considered for the R&R Hall Of Fame.

Maybe they should start a Hall Of Fame for every genre of music. There a lots of artists who've ahd more hits than The Monkees but aren't even considered for the R&R Hall Of Fame.


Hey again! R&RFan, I agree with you 100%. Most of those Artists you speak of did it the old fashion way, by paying their dues and earnning it...they should be the ones concidered for induction to Hall of Fame.

I guess to some of the Monkee fans concider our view "snobish", I think we take our music history more seriously than these kids who think Rock N' Roll music started in 1965...OOPS! there I go again! Shame on me! I have to stop being "snobish"...Sorry Hairspray!

Hot Wax

Hey again! R&RFan, I agree with you 100%. Most of those Artists you speak of did it the old fashion way, by paying their dues and earnning it...they should be the ones concidered for induction to Hall of Fame.

I guess to some of the Monkee fans concider our view "snobish", I think we take our music history more seriously than these kids who think Rock N' Roll music started in 1965...OOPS! there I go again! Shame on me! I have to stop being "snobish"...Sorry Hairspray!

Hot Wax
;D Thanks, Hot Wax! For the record, I like the Monkees but I just don't think they belong in the "Rock And Roll" Hall Of Fame. If they HAD a Hall Of Fame for pop...maybe then they should be in there along with the Osmonds, Partridge Family, Shaun Cassidy, New Kids On The Block, ect ;)

I guess to some of the Monkee fans concider our view "snobish", I think we take our music history more seriously than these kids who think Rock N' Roll music started in 1965...OOPS! there I go again! Shame on me! I have to stop being "snobish"...Sorry Hairspray!

Hot Wax


Condescension & Sarcasm. <rolls eyes>

And I actually respected your difference of opinion. It looks like you did ,in fact, become offended by the "snobbery" remark afterall.

By the way, I'm far from being one of these kids who think Rock N' Roll music started in 1965. I haven't been a kid for quite a long time.

I believe they should. :)



Howard

No offense taken, what it is, is what it is. The "purity" reference is in defense of the "real" Rock n' Roll Artists of the past who shed their blood sweat and tears working and refining their Art from young amateur status to a mature professional on their own learning the business through hard knocks and a lot of disappointments. The very few who were good enough to be discovered while singing or playing in some dive bar got to tour the country in buses doing dozens of one night stands. Away from home with lonely days and nights touring the country to get recognition for their talent and only hope to get a chance to make a recording that will sell to make a living at this trade and for all their efforts most of them were ripped off.

This is not "snobbery", it's defending the real Rock n' Roll Artist who earned their due, this in the "Purist" form of entitlement, not bands manufactured and promoted by big business for their "stock investors" to get rich on...Sorry! the Monkees fall into that category of the "Non-Purist" kind and do not belong in the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame as that group. As individuals Artists to the trade maybe they earned their due to get into the Hall, time will tell, but they should not go in as a "Monkee".


Hot Wax



Based on the same criteria,  Rick Nelson shouldn't have been inducted.  That's fair.  Do you think, then, that the induction committee should consider quietly un-inducting Rick Nelson to make it clear that the hall is for only "real" rock and roll artists who paid their dues to get national exposure? 

I agree that the Monkees should be in the Hall of Fame - but before that - I think Jeff Lynne should get in first.  What a great musician and producer.  Without him, we would not have had the great collaboration of the Traveling Wilbury's, the great comeback of George Harrison <Cloud Nine>, Roy Orbison's return, and a great Tom Petty Album.

AchtungBaby - Big Time Jeff Lynne Fan.

Condescension & Sarcasm. <rolls eyes>

And I actually respected your difference of opinion. It looks like you did ,in fact, become offended by the "snobbery" remark afterall.

By the way, I'm far from being one of these kids who think Rock N' Roll music started in 1965. I haven't been a kid for quite a long time.


Hairspray, really I'm more hard nosed then letting a snobbry remark offend me, nothing offends me, c'mon now! I was only playing with you, it makes good copy! Sorry I offened "you" with my sarcasm. I highly repect your opions also...I agree and disagree with them, but respect them all, even this one.

Sometimes your ally and sometimes your opponent, but always respectful.

Hot Wax...XOXOXO     

Hairspray, really I'm more hard nosed then letting a snobbry remark offend me, nothing offends me, c'mon now! I was only playing with you, it makes good copy! Sorry I offened "you" with my sarcasm. I highly repect your opions also...I agree and disagree with them, but respect them all, even this one.

Sometimes your ally and sometimes your opponent, but always respectful.

Hot Wax...XOXOXO     



Well, ok then. :)

Well, ok then. :)


                     
                  ~  ~
                  > O
                    ^
                    {}  ....... GREAT!!               
                   
                 

Based on the same criteria,  Rick Nelson shouldn't have been inducted.  That's fair.  Do you think, then, that the induction committee should consider quietly un-inducting Rick Nelson to make it clear that the hall is for only "real" rock and roll artists who paid their dues to get national exposure?   




I'll get back to you on this case.

Hot wax

I totally voted yes.  I'm sorry...I like the Monkees.  Everyone makes fun of them and snorts when I say I like them and was totally devoted to the show when MuchMusic starting airing it again in the early 90's.  And yet, everyone sings along with "Steppin Stone" or "I'm a Believer."  Mike Nesmith at least needs to be nominated or something...the man pioneered videos and MTV, produced Repo Man (the wackiest, coolest punk movie ever!) and introduced the world to the integration of rock n roll and country music.

will they be in the Hall Of Fame Induction Ceremony?



Howard

Based on the same criteria,  Rick Nelson shouldn't have been inducted.  That's fair.  Do you think, then, that the induction committee should consider quietly un-inducting Rick Nelson to make it clear that the hall is for only "real" rock and roll artists who paid their dues to get national exposure?   



I'm sorry it has taken this long to get back to you on your statment, my computer c drive went KAPUTZ and I was without it for the last month.

Anyway it's good to back...now about Ricky Nelson, he indeed earned his way into the Hall because on the Ozzie and Harriot show he took up the guitar as a kid in story plots and over time grew up in the Rock N' Roll revolution and used it as story lines in a few shows when he was a teenager he sang soft rock and used his popularity to promote R n R to their massive audience as a good clean form of music that is OK for their kids to listen to...like a Disciple of Elvis Presley and his passive aggressive movement on R n R. He was a Pioneer to get Rock n Roll accepted using the O and H show, and was and actor turned singer not manufactured liked the Monkees who came in 10 years after R n R was in full swing.

Do you want to discuss it further? please write me back.

thank you. Hot Wax

I'm sorry it has taken this long to get back to you on your statment, my computer c drive went KAPUTZ and I was without it for the last month.

Anyway it's good to back...now about Ricky Nelson, he indeed earned his way into the Hall because on the Ozzie and Harriot show he took up the guitar as a kid in story plots and over time grew up in the Rock N' Roll revolution and used it as story lines in a few shows when he was a teenager he sang soft rock and used his popularity to promote R n R to their massive audience as a good clean form of music that is OK for their kids to listen to...like a Disciple of Elvis Presley and his passive aggressive movement on R n R. He was a Pioneer to get Rock n Roll accepted using the O and H show, and was and actor turned singer not manufactured liked the Monkees who came in 10 years after R n R was in full swing.

Do you want to discuss it further? please write me back.

thank you. Hot Wax




Hey, Hot Wax! Welcome back :)

Hey, Hot Wax! Welcome back :)


Thanks Rock and Roll Fan it's good to be back, it time to raddle some cages now!! Ha! HA! HA!

Hot Wax

There are many reasons why The Monkees belong in the Hall of Fame. Their groundbreaking TV. show brought Rock and Roll into Americas living rooms on a weekly basis. The "Romps" on the show were the beginning of music videos as we know them. They had great hits and sold millions of records. They had the respect and freindship of many of their peers inclucing The Beatles. The fact that they started as a TV. show and actually became that band is an amazing story in itself. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame should be ashamed for not reconizing them.

Thanks Rock and Roll Fan it's good to be back, it time to raddle some cages now!! Ha! HA! HA!

Hot Wax
;D ;)

I had to re-kindle this past post due under new circumstances on my argument. After visiting the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame today, I've had a change of heart and YES! the Monkee's should be in the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame. They did contribute music that influenced an era. My hang-up was how they originated as a band and wasn't Hall worthy.

After today seeing who's been an inducted and what band's have been inductedand how they originated as groups. The Monkee's are no different than many groups that are in already. Group's like the "Lovin' Spoonful" "Pink Floyd", "The Young Rascal's", "Cream", "The Yardbirds", the way I see it is that those groups had less of an impact on a changing era than the Monkee's did no matter how they were formed, it's the final product of what they did that gives them Hall of Fame worthyness...they got my vote now, maybe in the future they'll get their recognition from the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame".


PS..."The only thing that doesn't change in life is...Change"  Hot Wax

They deserve it. Regardless of their beginnings, they fought against it and became their own band - releasing some very good music and still being a commercial force. You have to look at their achievements.

One of THE pioneers of Southern Rock (Nesmith)
Face it...some of the BEST songs of that era...
Outselling Beatles AND Stones at one time
Massive commercial exposure on a weekly basis in American/British homes (stimulating industry)
Staged a Massive commercial comeback in the 80s
Perhaps first usage of Moog synth on a pop record.
Helped break Hendrix in the States. (related to next listing)
Helped careers of Hendrix, Glenn Campbell, Niel Young, Steven Stills, Louie Shelton, Harry Nielson, Niel Diamond, Carol King... all to become major music forces in the industry...
Early promoter of Frank Zappa - giving him mainstream exposure

Helped careers of Hendrix, Glenn Campbell, Niel Young, Steven Stills, Louie Shelton, Harry Nielson, Niel Diamond, Carol King... all to become major music forces in the industry...



mmmm........no

mmmm........no


They sure didn't hurt any of their careers.  However putting Jimi Henderix on stage in front of a bunch of teeny boppers was a big mistake.

They sure didn't hurt any of their careers.  However putting Jimi Henderix on stage in front of a bunch of teeny boppers was a big mistake.


To say that the Monkees added or detracted from the above mentioned musicians is....well, just wrong.
Hendrix had already made a name for himself over in England.  If anyone helped his career it was the major guitar players like Eric Clapton who was vocal about sending other musicians around to see Hendrix.  The very short stint with the Monkees did not add or detract from his fame.  Actually, the Monkees crowd he was playing too weren't in any way appreciative of his music which is why he left the tour.  Carole King was a powerhouse as a songwriter way before any of these guys came into the picture, her first hits being sung as early as 1961. Neil Young, Steve Stills, Neil Diamond, Glen Campbell were established musicians.  Just because these people were contemporaries, or played in the same venues with the Monkees doesn't mean the Monkees helped, or hurt, their careers. 

To say that the Monkees added or detracted from the above mentioned musicians is....well, just wrong.
Hendrix had already made a name for himself over in England.  If anyone helped his career it was the major guitar players like Eric Clapton who was vocal about sending other musicians around to see Hendrix.  The very short stint with the Monkees did not add or detract from his fame.  Actually, the Monkees crowd he was playing too weren't in any way appreciative of his music which is why he left the tour.  Carole King was a powerhouse as a songwriter way before any of these guys came into the picture, her first hits being sung as early as 1961. Neil Young, Steve Stills, Neil Diamond, Glen Campbell were established musicians.  Just because these people were contemporaries, or played in the same venues with the Monkees doesn't mean the Monkees helped, or hurt, their careers. 


Since this is coming from someone who compares the Monkees to Menudo I should expect this.  Let me just put it to you this way.  Still's tried out for the Monkees and didn't make the cut.  Carol King didn't HAVE to write for Donnie Kirshner while her was promoting the Monkees.  Does anyone listen to Neil Diamond's version of I'm A Believer?  Glen Cambell never wrote any of the Monkees stuff he however plays on a few of their tracks.

The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is a joke. I mean, they let freakin' Madonna in there. MADONNA, for Pete's sake!!!  >:(

Since when did Madonna have anything even remotely to do with rock & roll? To me, Madonna being inducted into a Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame makes about as much sense as letting Ryan Leaf (who was the worst quarterback in the history of the NFL) into the Baseball Hall Of Fame. Why don't they just let Lawrence Welk in while they're at it? As far as I'm concerned, Madonna's induction into the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame only proved how much of a suck-ass corporate entity it really is.

And when it comes to the Monkees, as far as I'm concerned they should have gotten into the Hall Of Fame long before Madonna. The Monkees were actually entertaining, and the music they played (or didn't!) was actually passable as rock and roll. And while were at it, other bands that are more deserving than Madonna to be in a Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame include the Archies, the Ohio Express, and the 1910 Fruitgum Co.  :D :D :D

But I believe that there's another band that really belongs there but has been completely overlooked. They were contemporaries of the Monkees, they also were regulars on Saturday morning TV in the 1960's, and because of this they were unfairly looked down upon and perceived as a "kiddie band," despite being talented musicians and songwriters. I'm referring to Paul Revere and the Raiders, who were perhaps the most underrated band of the 60's.

I say screw the Monkees, put the Raiders in the Hall!  ;)

Do you think the Monkees should, at least, be nominated for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?
Don't care
No
Undecided
Of mixed opinion
Don't care

YES!  http://bestsmileys.com/famous/5.gif < future R&R hall of famer  :-\\


I do like the Monkees & when I think of the Monkees and their songs, I don't think about the real songwriters who worte them, or if they didn't play the instruments themselves.  But I do know almost every word to most of their songs and when I hear their music, it makes me feel better. To me, it's still their music and they made it popular and it's stood the test of time & if I were voting, I'd vote them into the Hall.

Since this is coming from someone who compares the Monkees to Menudo I should expect this.  Let me just put it to you this way.  Still's tried out for the Monkees and didn't make the cut.  Carol King didn't HAVE to write for Donnie Kirshner while her was promoting the Monkees.  Does anyone listen to Neil Diamond's version of I'm A Believer?  Glen Cambell never wrote any of the Monkees stuff he however plays on a few of their tracks.



Let me put it this way.  I was there and remember.  Yes Stills tried out for the Monkees.  Doesn't mean that they influenced his success with Buffalo Springfield, and by extension Neil Young.  Carol King was a powerhouse in the music world long before the auditions to join the Monkees in a group being put together by studio executives.  Her songs made careers. She did quite well without them, and continues to do quite well without them.   So Neil Young sang I'm a Believer.  One of the Monkees biggest hits was Daydream Believer, does that mean John Stewart, who wrote it, made their career.  You may like the group, like their songs, yes, they were very popular.  Popularity does not translate into influence, artistic or otherwise.

Oh, I do agree that the RnR Hall is a joke.  More ego stroke, but then what awards aren't?

Mixed feelings on this one. I liked The Monkees and they definitely contributed to that era in music.. :-\\   BUt they were predominantly a tv show... :-\\   If them ...then why not THe Patridge Family as well....

I'm gonna say yes...due to their impact on the charts and the hysteria that followed them. :)  However I voted for 'Mixed Feelings' as there was no 'yes' option included!  :o

Let me put it this way.  I was there and remember.  Yes Stills tried out for the Monkees.  Doesn't mean that they influenced his success with Buffalo Springfield, and by extension Neil Young.  Carol King was a powerhouse in the music world long before the auditions to join the Monkees in a group being put together by studio executives.  Her songs made careers. She did quite well without them, and continues to do quite well without them.   So Neil Young sang I'm a Believer.  One of the Monkees biggest hits was Daydream Believer, does that mean John Stewart, who wrote it, made their career.  You may like the group, like their songs, yes, they were very popular.  Popularity does not translate into influence, artistic or otherwise.

Oh, I do agree that the RnR Hall is a joke.  More ego stroke, but then what awards aren't?


Neil Young sang The Believer not I'm A Believer.  If what you're stating is true than royalties from Goffin/King songs can cease to be paid and she wouldn't care?  I wonder was Anne Murray bidding homage to John Stewart or The Monkees when she did her crappy version of Daydream Believer?  As for artistic influences, why then was Peter Tork asked to play on the Wonderwall album?

*Shuffles away humming Different Drum*

Neil Young sang The Believer not I'm A Believer. 



I don't know what I was saying about Neil Young and I'm a Believer (brain fart or problem in editing).



  If what you're stating is true than royalties from Goffin/King songs can cease to be paid and she wouldn't care?



Haven't a clue what you are talking about here.



I wonder was Anne Murray bidding homage to John Stewart or The Monkees when she did her crappy version of Daydream Believer? 



Homage?  Anne Murray was just singing a crappy version of a great song, just like the Monkees.



  As for artistic influences, why then was Peter Tork asked to play on the Wonderwall album?



Peter Tork playing a very short bit on Wonderwall means he played a very short bit on Wonderwall.  You think that makes him influential?  Yeah, where would Harrison have gotten without him?  ::)

I don't know what I was saying about Neil Young and I'm a Believer (brain fart or problem in editing).

Haven't a clue what you are talking about here.

Homage?  Anne Murray was just singing a crappy version of a great song, just like the Monkees.

Peter Tork playing a very short bit on Wonderwall means he played a very short bit on Wonderwall.  You think that makes him influential?  Yeah, where would Harrison have gotten without him?  ::)


Surely you know who Goffin/King was.  Goffin was married to Carol King hence the writing duo that was part of Donnie Kirshner's hit factory.

John Stewart never sang it himself.  Therefore most people go by the Monkees version. 

I never claimed people wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the Monkees so you're constant remark about it is pointless.  Harrison is one of the greatest musicians of all times he had an appreciation for not only the Monkees but Monty Mython (he financed The Life Of Brian)  making a musical snob out of him does not do him justice.

Surely you know who Goffin/King was.  Goffin was married to Carol King hence the writing duo that was part of Donnie Kirshner's hit factory.




Of course I know Goffin/King.  I was listening to their hits way back in 1961, long before the idea of fabricating a made for television musical group, they were a dynamic duo on the songwriting stage. Surely you know that they wrote hits for The Shirelles, Little Eva, and the Drifters(to name a few), in the very early sixties.




John Stewart never sang it himself.  Therefore most people go by the Monkees version. 



John Stewart recorded Daydream Believer on his Lonesome Picker Rides Again album.  I have it, I listen to it, and even have it on my Ipod.




I never claimed people wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the Monkees so you're constant remark about it is pointless.  Harrison is one of the greatest musicians of all times he had an appreciation for not only the Monkees but Monty Mython (he financed The Life Of Brian)  making a musical snob out of him does not do him justice.



I never claimed Harrison was a musical snob. I never said that you intimated that any of these people would have not gotten anywhere.  What I am saying is that the it is wrong to assume that because the Monkees were popular that they were influential in the world of music.  Being linked musically to them was not a plus or a minus. They played some carefully proscribed catchy tunes and made a lot of people a lot more money than they made for themselves,  but that is as far as it goes.

Definately...YES! The Monkees are great!