I think underneath all those drugs there was a very smart man...a Genius ;)

Psycho/Genius

I liked his music, but I reckon he would have been a dead-set pain in the a$$ to be around.

I have a suspicion the crappy don't-give-a-stuff-abot-anything attitude would have pervaded everything he did and touched  :(

Psycho.....I always thought he was way overrated.  ::)

Psycho.....I always thought he was way overrated.  ::)
Well Karen, I guess we can't agree on everything ;)

I agree, he was a very intelligent man, but he definitely had a psycho thing going on as well.  I picked psycho/genius....which is a good way to be if you're in a band.  :D

Genius

Other:  Sociopath, one who could use other people for his own benefit, without any feelings of remorse or conscience.

Neither

Other:  Sociopath, one who could use other people for his own benefit, without any feelings of remorse or conscience.
Oh I'm not so sure about all that...I've read two books about him form people that actually knew him. "No One Here Gets Out Alive" by Jerry Hopkins AND "Riders On The Storm" which was written by the only "Door" left that I respect....John Densmore. It was Densmore who agreed with Morrison long ago that ANY Doors songs used in ads would have to be approved by ALL the members...if only one said "No" then that was it! Manzerek and Kreiger are the ones using the Bands name and hating Densmore for not being more like them...IMO THEY are the ones who are the real sociopaths!  Oh, and as for the Oliver Stone Movie....I think it was okay but hardly accurate ::)

Oh I'm not so sure about all that...I've read two books about him form people that actually knew him. "No One Here Gets Out Alive" by Jerry Hopkins AND "Riders On The Storm" which was written by the only "Door" left that I respect....John Densmore. It was Densmore who agreed with Morrison long ago that ANY Doors songs used in ads would have to be approved by ALL the members...if only one said "No" then that was it! Manzerek and Kreiger are the ones using the Bands name and hating Densmore for not being more like them...IMO THEY are the ones who are the real sociopaths!  Oh, and as for the Oliver Stone Movie....I think it was okay but hardly accurate ::)


I don't know mych about Kreiger, but I'd agree with you that Ray Manzarek is a total jerk.  I mean, that guy is so self-absorbed he could be a paper towel.  ;)

I don't know mych about Kreiger, but I'd agree with you that Ray Manzarek is a total jerk.  I mean, that guy is so self-absorbed he could be a paper towel.  ;)
I voted for "Psycho/Genius," and may I add, NUTJOB. :D

As for Ray Manzarek? At one time he was my favorite Door but now I hate his guts. I saw the new "Doors" on some late night talk show (Jimmy Kimmel, I think) and I swear I wanted to throw a brick at my TV. Subbing for Morrison was Ian Astbury, formerly of the Cult (one of the best hard rock bands of the 80's). He served as nothing more than a Jim Morrison impersonator...he was dressed up just like Jim and he was trying to copy Jim's moves and it was totally cheesy. And then Ray was wearing a Hawaiian shirt (and maybe even a lei!) and smiling the whole time, and he reminded me a lot of Mike Love from the Beach Boys (another one of the biggest jerk-offs in rock 'n roll history). The whole stupid thing had absolutely none of the darkness or mystique that made the original Doors so cool and instead it looked just like another one of those lame, soulless golden-oldies nostalgia revues that play at county fairs so that fat, middle-aged Midwestern housewives can sing along and clap their hands.

Jim, if you're still alive, please come out of hiding and kick Manzarek's candy a** before he turns your beloved Doors into Gary Lewis & The Playboys!!! >:( >:( >:(

I think psycho/genius.

I respect him as an artist but always thought there was something creepy about him, like he could just totally flip out at any moment with no warning.

Neither - He was a talented musician, as are many other talented musicians. I'm sure being "hopped-up" on hallucinogens had something to do with his style and writing, which was groovy, creative and unique. I like The Doors and their tunes. However, I do believe Jim Morrison, as a solitary entity, to be overrated. He was the frontman of an excellent group though.

Neither - He was a talented musician, as are many other talented musicians. I'm sure being "hopped-up" on hallucinogens had something to do with his style and writing, which was groovy, creative and unique. I like The Doors and their tunes. However, I do believe Jim Morrison, as a solitary entity, to be overrated. He was the frontman of an excellent group though.
And sadly that "Group" has morphed itself into being nothing but greedy sell-outs ::) At least Morrison was against doing that to the group and Densmore is still honoring Jim's wishes by honoring his memory

I don't know mych about Kreiger, but I'd agree with you that Ray Manzarek is a total jerk.  I mean, that guy is so self-absorbed he could be a paper towel.  ;)
Yep, Manzarek should be ashamed of what he is doing...but he has no conscience >:(

Yep, Manzarek should be ashamed of what he is doing...but he has no conscience >:(

"...but he has no conscience"

And maybe no money? ::)

Hey, RnRFan you know what we need? We need one of your classic music/group polls. There must be one group left that hasn't been done yet and has more than one hit to its name. ???

Those music polls are CREAMY ;D

Genius

And sadly that "Group" has morphed itself into being nothing but greedy sell-outs ::)

I'll just chime-in to say that we do not know the true circumstances as to why they do the things they do today, like trying to make money. They have the perfect right; and promises and honors to someone who's dead do not put food on the table. That kind of ideology died decades ago. This is a different and more complex reality we live in today. We should try and think of these things in today's perspective and try not to be so judgmental.

I'll just chime-in to say that we do not know the true circumstances as to why they do the things they do today, like trying to make money. They have the perfect right; and promises and honors to someone who's dead do not put food on the table. That kind of ideology died decades ago. This is a different and more complex reality we live in today. We should try and think of these things in today's perspective and try not to be so judgmental.
I'm trying NOT to be judgmental, Hairspray. It's just that I choose to side with John Densmore in this particular case. Nothing more than my opinion, but I do apologize if it came off a bit harsh :-\\

I do apologize if it came off a bit harsh :-\\


No need. I don't take things personally. :)

No need. I don't take things personally. :)
Except when some say pepsi is better than Coca-Cola...which it isn't ;)

Psycho/genius  It is a very fine line between the two. The drugs probably tapped into his psycho side more than it did into his genius side. As I always say, Elvis may have been the king of rock-n-roll but Jim was the GOD!




Cat

Neither.

Brilliant songwriter and poet BUT
raving crazy alcoholic-not to mention all the various pills.
By the time they made LA Woman he was no more.I think a lot of his lewd and lucidious behavior on stage came from the fact that when he was alive it was okay to be condescending and rude to women back then.

Neither.

I think a lot of his lewd and lucidious behavior on stage came from the fact that when he was alive it was okay to be condescending and rude to women back then.
On the contary Mordor, I think had he been alive in THIS era or even in the mid 70's he would've fit right in and not been in nearly as much if any trouble at all with the law! Look at "Diamond Dave" and how he used to (And probably still is) grab his crotch....now of course mosst of the alleged "Music" we are subjected to...."Rap" has most of the acts disrespting women, cussing every other word and showing us all thier "Booty"  ::) :P

"...but he has no conscience"

And maybe no money? ::)

Hey, RnRFan you know what we need? We need one of your classic music/group polls. There must be one group left that hasn't been done yet and has more than one hit to its name. ???

Those music polls are CREAMY ;D



??? ::)OKAY, zcrito....enough with that word :D I will try and rack my brain for some more acts ;D

??? ::)OKAY, zcrito....enough with that word :D I will try and rack my brain for some more acts ;D


Go with the Greatest Hits idea. That would be a cre...er..wonderful poll!

CREAMY...CREAMY...CREAMY...CREAMY...CREAMY

:) ;D

I voted for "Psycho/Genius," and may I add, NUTJOB. :D

As for Ray Manzarek? At one time he was my favorite Door but now I hate his guts. I saw the new "Doors" on some late night talk show (Jimmy Kimmel, I think) and I swear I wanted to throw a brick at my TV. Subbing for Morrison was Ian Astbury, formerly of the Cult (one of the best hard rock bands of the 80's). He served as nothing more than a Jim Morrison impersonator...he was dressed up just like Jim and he was trying to copy Jim's moves and it was totally cheesy. And then Ray was wearing a Hawaiian shirt (and maybe even a lei!) and smiling the whole time, and he reminded me a lot of Mike Love from the Beach Boys (another one of the biggest jerk-offs in rock 'n roll history). The whole stupid thing had absolutely none of the darkness or mystique that made the original Doors so cool and instead it looked just like another one of those lame, soulless golden-oldies nostalgia revues that play at county fairs so that fat, middle-aged Midwestern housewives can sing along and clap their hands.

Jim, if you're still alive, please come out of hiding and kick Manzarek's candy a** before he turns your beloved Doors into Gary Lewis & The Playboys!!! >:( >:( >:(
Damn!  I suppose I DO like some "Husker" fans! I LOVE all you said and especially the part about Mike Love ;)

darn!  I suppose I DO like some "Husker" fans! I LOVE all you said and especially the part about Mike Love ;)
Did I mention I also like the Kansas City Chiefs???  ;D

Did I mention I also like the Kansas City Chiefs???  ;D
Damn....you are taking ALL the fun out of hating The Broncos rivals...Jessica is a Raiders Fan and I Definately respect her...but I had it made with the "Qeafs" (Sorry) as they are loved by my nephew who constantly talks crap about Denver ::)

darn....you are taking ALL the fun out of hating The Broncos rivals...Jessica is a Raiders Fan and I Definately respect her...but I had it made with the "Qeafs" (Sorry) as they are loved by my nephew who constantly talks crap about Denver ::)
That's all right...at least we're both "RAIDER HATERS!" ;)

He may have done a TON of drugs but I still think of him as a frickin' genius. To hell with Oliver Stone and HIS interpretation of Jim :)

On the contary Mordor, I think had he been alive in THIS era or even in the mid 70's he would've fit right in and not been in nearly as much if any trouble at all with the law! Look at "Diamond Dave" and how he used to (And probably still is) grab his crotch....now of course mosst of the alleged "Music" we are subjected to...."Rap" has most of the acts disrespting women, cussing every other word and showing us all thier "Booty"  ::) :P


Ha ha ha!Youre right about that.I thought it was just me getting old but Ive heard teenagers say that some of the stuff these days is just plain in bad taste.Ozzy pissing on the Alamo wouldve been the least of his worries and wearing Sharon's dress--he'd look normal!

Ha ha ha!Youre right about that.I thought it was just me getting old but Ive heard teenagers say that some of the stuff these days is just plain in bad taste.Ozzy pissing on the Alamo wouldve been the least of his worries and wearing Sharon's dress--he'd look normal!
;)

I chose Genius. 

I've always considered myself a genius who is a bit psychotic, man!

I've always considered myself a genius who is a bit psychotic, man!
If you are who you claim to be, read my earlier post in this thread and PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! come out of hiding and beat some sense into Ray Manzarek before the Doors become as lame and irrelevant and corporate as the post-Brian Wilson, Mike Love-dominated Beach Boys!!! Please hurry before these jerks have a concert at my local dirt track!!!

(BTW...I just went to Manzarek's website www.raymanzarek.com and he refers to the latest incarnation of the Doors as "D21C," or "Doors 21st Century."  What a poophead!!!)

If you are who you claim to be, read my earlier post in this thread and PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! come out of hiding and beat some sense into Ray Manzarek before the Doors become as lame and irrelevant and corporate as the post-Brian Wilson, Mike Love-dominated Beach Boys!!! Please hurry before these jerks have a concert at my local dirt track!!!

(BTW...I just went to Manzarek's website www.raymanzarek.com and he refers to the latest incarnation of the Doors as "D21C," or "Doors 21st Century."  What a poophead!!!)
Hey man, I dig your bad vibe but I am retired from the business.

Hey man, I dig your bad vibe but I am retired from the business.
Say, aren't you the same person who was in here a couple of weeks back claiming to be Davy Jones of the Monkees?

Say, aren't you the same person who was in here a couple of weeks back claiming to be Davy Jones of the Monkees?
No way. That guy is into his own gig, man

Truly he had some mental illness going on, but he was a hunk back than. He didn't need to be a genious.He made good music but so did a lot of other people. I wouldn't consider his contribution to culture as genious-he was talented and appealing at the time. 8) (Quite the sexy guy !) ;) I voted Psycho, which is not necessarily a bad thing. ;)

Well, i know he was a beautiful guy, his features were gorgeous and his mane of  hair...Oh Man,..... :-*

I voted for Psycho/Genius, but then again, all the great musicians are, right?

He was a true poet. I respect that. I wish we had more like him today. Instead of those writing to guarantee a rhyming word at the end of each line.

Also, he was a sexy bastard, then!

Tanya

*Bump*

He's your classic misunderstood psycho/genius. His poetry is amazing! He's just one of a long line of f**ked up military brats (and I speak from experience, being one myself!)

I wish I could have seen The Doors play live just once.

Jim was just a rock star that did way to many drugs.... :(

um......you forgot full time drunk as a choice.He was a genius and due to wetbrain became psycho.Poor Jim:(
Only good thing bout the new Doors is Ian Astbury mmmmmmmm ;)

Jim was just a rock star that did way to many drugs.... :(


I believe his true reason in the begining for taking drugs was to expand the mind, which manifested into a dependency.

Definetly a genius, even though I'm sure he had his moments of pure psychoticness......is that a word? It is now!!!



Rio

*bump*

i think he was a total genius. h was one of the few that challenged everything about the status quo... he was also very intelligent. sometime, if you have the time, look up some jim morrison quotes.they are pretty far out, but they make sense.

"when you make your peace with authority,
you become authority"- Jim Morrison 8)

i think he was a total genius. h was one of the few that challenged everything about the status quo... he was also very intelligent. sometime, if you have the time, look up some jim morrison quotes.they are pretty far out, but they make sense.

"when you make your peace with authority,
you become authority"- Jim Morrison 8)
Brian, you should read the book "Riders On The Storm" by John Densmore...the original Doors member who ISN'T a greedy sell-out like Manzarek and Kreiger ;)

yeah, my mom (im only 14) told me about that book. she said that she had read "riders on the storm" and "light my fire"(by manzerek), and that they had a lot of differences and that they told completely different stories in certain places. i was going to read "light my fire" but decided not to. i also started to read "Jim Morrison: Life, Death, Legend", but i got about 1/8 of the way through and decided not to.ill check out Riders On The Storm-thanx

yeah, my mom (im only 14) told me about that book. she said that she had read "riders on the storm" and "light my fire"(by manzerek), and that they had a lot of differences and that they told completely different stories in certain places. i was going to read "light my fire" but decided not to. i also started to read "Jim Morrison: Life, Death, Legend", but i got about 1/8 of the way through and decided not to.ill check out Riders On The Storm-thanx
No Problem, Brian :)  I always go with the person who isn't blatantly stepping all over the wishes of a fallen friend. The original Doors voted in the late 60's to NEVER have any of thier stuff used in commercials. It could  only be changed by majority vote and since Densmore hounored Jim's vote, Manzerek and Kreiger can't get thier hands on more money. It's a similar situation to what The Beatles wished for but since Northern Songs auctioned off thier songs and somehow Michael "Flit Boy" Jackson got his perverted hands on them, the songs are all over the place on commercials >:(

gotcha

gotcha
;)

I read somewhere that Jim Morrison never owned a house in his life..., even as late as 1968 he slept on the street or at someone elses house. Later on he lived mostly in hotels. Strange for someone who would undoubtedly be earning millions.

Jim Morrison was God, at least for a little while when i was in grade ten.Tied in at twenty five with Jimi Hendrix, Myself, and Janis Joplin; these people died for a reason, or maybe we found something, who knows. Jim Morrison is a genius, obviously, but for the record, he's now powerful enough not to care.

One man's pycho, is another man's genius.  Or maybe it was just the "60's".  8)

hey rockandrollfan im reading riders on the storm. its pretty good so far. right now im reading about their first recording sessions. ray sounds like he was a posessive d&%@head.n e way, its pretty good so far.

hey rockandrollfan im reading riders on the storm. its pretty good so far. right now im reading about their first recording sessions. ray sounds like he was a posessive d&%@head.n e way, its pretty good so far.


That's great...and you're right about Manzarek ::) Enjoy the rest ;)

Just a little observation, from photos, films.etc it looks very much like Jim Morrison has dark brown eyes but from sources I've read it said he has blue eyes. He didn't wear contacts did he?

dunno...did they have contacts in the sixties???

On closer inspection his eyes are indeed 'bluish-grey'. Although another interesting stat was his height, reports range from between 5'9 1/2" to 5'11". I think the real figure would be somewhere in between. But I was also wondering if they had contacts in the 60s...anyone?

no idea. i think that contacts just came around in the 80's. but im not sure

On closer inspection his eyes are indeed 'bluish-grey'. Although another interesting stat was his height, reports range from between 5'9 1/2" to 5'11". I think the real figure would be somewhere in between. But I was also wondering if they had contacts in the 60s...anyone?

Contact Lenses Adolph Fick first thought of making glass contact lenses in
1888, but it took until 1948 when Kevin Tuohy invented the soft plastic lens :)

internet....its a wonderful tool!!!! oh, im almost finished with riders on the storm by the way. and john said that he, robby, and ray all sold the song to the commercial, and that jim was the only one who didnt. but i still dont like ray. im not sure about robby. but it is a good book. im just at the part where they are recording l.a. woman. n e ways, thanx for the book tip!!;)

internet....its a wonderful tool!!!! oh, im almost finished with riders on the storm by the way. and john said that he, robby, and ray all sold the song to the commercial, and that jim was the only one who didnt. but i still dont like ray. im not sure about robby. but it is a good book. im just at the part where they are recording l.a. woman. n e ways, thanx for the book tip!!;)
Jim was indeed the only one but the agreement was it had to be unanimous...John later felt bad about not honoring it but he's changed. He feels, as do I, that Ray and Robby are in the new venture for the money...selling out...and it's disgusting :-\\ I'm glad you are enjoying the book and was happy to help ;)

Geniuses are psychos by definiition.... so both!  :D

Psycho/Genius

hey i finished riders on the storm. it was a very good book. my mother suggested reading Light My Fire by Ray, you know, to get both sides of the story. my mom said that its surprising how different the stories are. but i would definately give more credibility to John

Peace
BEK

hey i finished riders on the storm. it was a very good book. my mother suggested reading Light My Fire by Ray, you know, to get both sides of the story. my mom said that its surprising how different the stories are. but i would definately give more credibility to John

Peace
BEK
http://www.geocities.com/mark21566/musicGuitar.gifWhile I agree with the "Both Sides" theory, I also agree that John is the guy I'd be more apt to believe ;)

I don't know if any of you have heard this, but there's some cowboy out in Oregon claiming to be Jim Morrison. You be the judge!

http://www.rodeoswest.com/

i think that Jim Morrison is incredibly smart. his peotry is amazing, maybe he is a little bit psycho but thats what made him so great :)

all depends of one's definition of psycho

Jim Morrison was himself  all the time, without social convention. Many of our rock personalities are the same. They develope what we preceive as brutal biting atitudes toward lesser persons. les enfants terrible.]Purple]

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=morrison&GSfn=jim&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=740&pt=Jim%20Morrison&

Psycho.....I always thought he was way overrated. ::)


Same here.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=morrison&GSfn=jim&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=740&pt=Jim%20Morrison&
;) Thanks

Both, but more on the genius side

Having been a Doors fan for awhile now, and read two biographies, I think I can shed a bit of light on this topic.

Jim Morrison's genius, in many ways, stemmed from his tortured psyche. Like the great troubled poets - Rimbaud, Emily Dickinson, Lord Tennyson and other creative geniuses in general (i.e. Van Gough) these extremes; the sheer intensity and vicarity of living - were the very things which led to these altered states of consciousness. But as many have said, without the drugs Jim Morrison could have been a proficient song-writer - even a musician (though he would never have the patience) though, some may find this controversial, he would not have had the same reputation or notoriety if he weren't so intimately involved with the acid scene and 'higher states of consciousness' he urged people - society at large - to rebel against convention and 'break on through' to a higher dimension. At times he was frustratingly self-destructive (like recklessly driving while drunk), at others one could see glimpses of true genius or enlightenment. I think he was a pretty average (or below average) poet, but an incomparable rock star. And genius or not, he was an incomparable rock star.