Quoting:
All this talk of the Beatles has got me thinking, and all these what if's are cramming into my brain.  I know it's never good to think about what if this happened at this time but I would like to see everyone's views on this.

What if John Lennon hadn't been murdered on December 8, 1980?  Would his contriubution to the music world continue to be great, or would he have retired and lived the good ol' quiet life with Yoko?  Or would the Beatles ever enjoyed a beautiful reunion?  (BTW, that's not meant to be the 'choices' they're just examples.)

My answer to this question is this:
From all I have read about John Lennon and what I can fathom about him through listening to his songs, I don't believe that John Lennon could ever retire while still being able to make music.  I do believe his contriubution to the music world would have continued to be great because John Lennon always seemed to be evolving, and I do believe we all would have seen a beautiful side to him as a person had he not been killed.

Finally, its hard to say whether or not the Beatles would have gotten back together, although I would have loved to have seen something like that, I personally think it would have been one of the worst things they could have done.  Sure they would have made truck loads of money but I believe a band like the Beatles truly belongs to history.

Thanks for reading.
End Quote

I know I'm going to get a lock of flack for this, but I think that John Lennon as an artist is much different from John Lennon as a person. Mind you, I only have a few interviews of Julian Lennon to go by, so I do not have a well-informed basis for this opinion, so here goes: I think that John Lennon as an artist is exactly what you stated (defenitely better than I could have, anyway), but as a person the guy is only a notch better than the fiend who murdered him due to the fact that he abandoned his first son, Julian, and never really bothered to have contact with him while he (John) was still alive. Personally, I wouldn't want to have a father that, technically, disowned me. His songs were great and everything, but, of course, I can't get past the fact that he was a deadbeat father.

Tarzan Boy

Quoting:
Short response here ;) I hadn't heard about him re-connecting with Julian...all I've heard from recent Julian interviews was the opposite.  Julian is very bitter, and rightly so. (From His mouth) and we all know, or at least it's MO that Yucko had a lot to do with it.  As for his music, I enjoyed his songs very much...as for getting back :D with the Beatles...I could see him joining forces with them for the very successful "Anthology" project and could even see him, Paul & Ringo doing a few benefit concerts after the death of dear George  :'(  As for a full-blown reunion...I don't think that would've happened, and besides Yucko would not have 'allowed' it >:( (Glad that wasn't my LONG   response?!  ;)
End Quote

Actually, I had the same idea from what I read in the OC Register about a year ago. Julian speaks of John in an indifferent manner. He does recognize his talent and his gift to pop culture, but he definitely does not consider him as a major positive influence in his life - as of to-day, practically.

Tarzan Boy

Quoting:
I saw the "Behind The Music" on VHI of Julian. He is indeed still a bit bitter and resentful. He feels as any child who was abandoned and neglected by a parent. John was always gone throughout Julian's childhood, never at home because work was more important at the time. John was not very much of a husband to Julian's mother, wife Cyntia, either.  :-/

What fueled Julian's negative feelings even further was the fact that when John united with Yoko, John had then changed as a person to the degree of which Yoko was then the center of his world. For a time, Yoko and his relationship with her where all that mattered.

Julian not only experienced his father's abandonment, but was witness to constant bombarding of footage and video of how much John was a doting father to Sean, how John was always there, more attentive and hands on more caring about Sean from the time of his birth than he'd been with him - his first born. John even took a hiatus from all work for a while after Sean was born.

John was killed before Julian ever got any resolve.

Teenagers have it tough already without the added complications Julian had experienced and still remained to experience after the murder of his father.

I was saddened by John Lennon's murder, but my heart broke for Julian. I felt very sorry for him.

Perhaps, had John lived a little longer he would have mended his relationship with his first born son. I would like to think so, anyway.
End Quote

I like your reply more than mine, much more thorough ;) As for deserting a child....my son Blaines father NEVER even aknowleged him...The last month Blaine was alive he asked for us to try and get what was due to him (He called him his Dad) .  After Blaine died we still have never heard a word.  Some people just don't take responsibility...as for Lennon, again, I feel he was a "Horrible"  person to Julian.

Quoting:
I really didn't care for John or Paul after the Beatles' split. John because of his anti-Christian beliefs and big ego. And Paul because of his sappy songs and his pushing of vegetarianism on the public. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) I think both should learn from George and Ringo, who kept a low profile and their beliefs to themselves.
End Quote

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one with a negative opinion of John. Yeah, that "bigger than Jesus" statement truly showed his colours...

Didn't mind Paul and the rest. I thought George was cool with all the Eastern philosophy and philantropical attitude of his.

Tarzan Boy

Quoting:


Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one with a negative opinion of John. Yeah, that "bigger than Jesus" statement truly showed his colours...

Didn't mind Paul and the rest. I thought George was cool with all the Eastern philosophy and philantropical attitude of his.

Tarzan Boy
End Quote

I never really liked him, either.  I always thought he was a bit too egotistical.  When I heard how he was with Julian, I thought even less of him.  Then there's his taste in women... :-X

Quoting:


Then there's his taste in women... :-X
End Quote

Darn it!  You beat me to that one  ;D

Quoting:

Then there's his taste in women... :-X
End Quote

LOL!!!  :D I know.

But seriously, Cynthia (his first wife/Julian's mother) wasn't that bad at all. Yoko on the other hand....  :P ::)

....must've been the aftermath of years of droppin' too much acid and smokin' too much weed.  ;)

Quoting:


LOL!!!  :D I know.

But seriously, Cynthia (his first wife/Julian's mother) wasn't that bad at all. Yoko on the other hand....  :P ::)

....must've been the aftermath of years of droppin' too much acid and smokin' too much weed.  ;)
End Quote

Quoting:
Ringo had the best taste in women with Barbara Bach (although I don't know any of his past wives). Linda McCartney was just plain; Heather is quite an improvement.
Everyone is right about Yoko (didn't see Cynthia a lot), and I never saw the inner beauty Lennon claimed he did. Don't know about George's women.

End Quote

Linda was a lovely lady on the inside....but her looks were plain, I agree.  Of course Heather is an improvement as far as looks go being much younger than Linda was. Barbara Bach ages much better than her sister Catherine aka, Daisy Duke.  George was with Patti Boyd, who later wed George's best friend Eric Clapton.  I thought his wife at the time of his passing, Olivia was very nice for him (Supportive) and shared in his many wonderful and peaceful ways.  I will end the night with Yoko....What a Horrid Thought! :-X IMO she is better looking on the outside :(

Quoting:
If John's second marriage had been to a blonde hair, blue eyed woman with the same ideals and everything as Yoko, things would have been fine, but because she was Asian, she was an evil, devil woman whatever.End Quote

This is a generalization. In my opinion, I don't believe her ethnicity was an issue for that great of a number of people. It certainly wasn't an issue for me. There's no way to ever know as to whether things would've been fine if John had married differently.  :-/

Quoting:


LOL!!!  :D I know.

But seriously, Cynthia (his first wife/Julian's mother) wasn't that bad at all. Yoko on the other hand....  :P ::)

....must've been the aftermath of years of droppin' too much acid and smokin' too much weed.  ;)
End Quote

I was only talking about Yoko.  I have only seen a pic of Cynthia one time, and have heard absolutely nothing about her, so I have no opinion.  Yoko on the other hand....seen too much.  Then she opens her mouth and tries to sing... ::)

Quoting:
Personally, I don't care if she comes from Venus and is green. Her inner beauty matches her outer. I actually have this lame theory that John was so much on love with himself he decided to marry someone who also looked and thought just like him...


Tarzan Boy
End Quote

ROTFLMAO!!!  Thanks for the laugh, Tarzan Boy. ;D

Quoting:
I think the way Yoko was shown in the media was unfair, and her being Asian sure didn't help matters.  If John's second marriage had been to a blonde hair, blue eyed woman with the same ideals and everything as Yoko, things would have been fine, but because she was Asian, she was an evil, devil woman whatever.
End Quote

Quoting:
I'm afraid I can't be as thorough as the rest of you have on this subject - partly because there's not much more that can be said.

Frankly, off the original subject a way - I think Yoko's surname just about sums her up :

O-NO !
End Quote

;D Good one!  I also thought John legally changing his middle name to "Ono" from "Winston" was ridiculous (Even though I don't care for cigarettes)

Quoting:


;D Good one!  I also thought John legally changing his middle name to "Ono" from "Winston" was ridiculous (Even though I don't care for cigarettes)
End Quote

Quoting:
Seems like I have the opposing belief to the majority of the people on this board again.  Sigh.  Here goes:

I think the way Yoko was shown in the media was unfair, and her being Asian sure didn't help matters.  If John's second marriage had been to a blonde hair, blue eyed woman with the same ideals and everything as Yoko, things would have been fine, but because she was Asian, she was an evil, devil woman whatever.

I personally don't have anything against Yoko, I think the way they were so much in love with each other and not afraid to show it was great.  John never seemed to be afraid to speak his mind in his songs and I admired him for that, it must have taken a lot of courage to write some of the things he wrote.

The whole point of this topic was to ponder what if John Lennon had lived, I know that things he did while he was alive were not nice, but I respect him for being human, he wasn't hiding behind the 'perfect' facade as McCartney does.  But the point I am trying to get across is that if he had lived, we would have seen a better side to him, musically and personally.

Writing songs is a personal process, the songs must have come from somewhere deep within Lennon, whether it be the public perception of him or the real him whom we never got the chance to know.  So to conclude this, I don't believe that someone who could write such beautiful songs as Imagine, So This Is Christmas, Beautiful Boy, Mother etc could be a horrible person.  His lyrics ring true and heartfelt but his image of being a tough, pathetic, piece of sh*t of a person didn't.

End Quote

The fact that Yoko was Asian has nothing to do with her being disliked,she was and is an unpleasant control freak who seems only to be getting worse as she gets older.I truely believe she is a prime example of someone getting 'the face they deserve'ie the one that reflects their personality!
Sadly some of the most beautiful,heartfelt lyrics,poetry or prose have been written by some of the most monstrous people.Writting beautiful lyrics is not always a reflection of the true nature of a person, just look through history.This is not to say that John Lennon didn't have a nice side but he did also have a nasty side, you can't deny that.In that respect it was more honest of him that he didn't hide that fact,It's wrong to try and turn him into a saint just because he died.

Quoting:
you can't always believe everything you read or hear.

I personally think it is great how John was so in love with Yoko that he wanted to be with her every moment and he wanted her to be with him every step of the way, such as in the Beatles recording sessions.

I am happy that John practiced what he preached with "All You Need Is Love" and many other songs and in the final years of his life he was so happy with Yoko and Sean.  You can all disagree with me however you want, it is your right, but I believe that Yoko was one of the greatest things that happened to John in his final years.
End Quote

I agree that his love for her & Sean was great...but I also KNOW because I heard it straight from the broken heart of his "Forgotten Son" Julian...He was not as great as people make him out to be........of course that's just my opinion ;)

Quoting:
I'm not saying he was a saint, I'm saying he was a real person and that we would have seen a beautiful side to him had he lived.  I'm not saying he would have turned into a saint, but that he would have become a much better person in the media.  

Maybe because its alright to be shallow when it comes to celebrities, but in our real life, everything is so full of depth.  
John obviously found something beautiful in Yoko that went past appearances and went to her soul.  And not one of you can know what she is really like deep down, so maybe you should lay off just a teensy bit when it comes to that.  The media can manipulate any situation in any way in which it chooses and it will have millions of people believing it as the truth, but I've had firsthand experience in knowing that you can't always believe everything you read or hear.

I personally think it is great how John was so in love with Yoko that he wanted to be with her every moment and he wanted her to be with him every step of the way, such as in the Beatles recording sessions.

I am happy that John practiced what he preached with "All You Need Is Love" and many other songs and in the final years of his life he was so happy with Yoko and Sean.  You can all disagree with me however you want, it is your right, but I believe that Yoko was one of the greatest things that happened to John in his final years.

End Quote

"And not one of you can know what she is really like deep down,..."

You speak of Yoko as if you knew her personally.

"...so maybe you should lay off just a teensy bit when it comes to that."

In reference to laying off the issue, people have the right to speak against Yoko just as you have the right to praise her.

You also sound so sure about how John Lennon would have "become a much better person" had he lived.

"but I've had firsthand experience in knowing that you can't always believe everything you read or hear."

So, how do you differentiate between fact and fiction?

Do you not have any of these, here, stated opinions/ideals based on what you have read and heard?

Quoting:
I'm saying he was a real person and that we would have seen a beautiful side to him had he lived.  


End Quote

Quoting:
But I remember one magazine published an article about John Lennon's scandalous sex life or some crap like that.  And it was the biggest load of shit I have ever read.

And J.C., you are a Christian are you not?
Therefore you can't even begin to "imagine" no heaven, hence I can't begin to "imagine" that he wouldn't have had a beautiful side to him because I believe everyone has a beautiful side, whether its shown or not.
End Quote

Quoting:
They claim to know so much about her only through what they have read in the entertainment section of a newspaper.  
End Quote

Is this your assumption?

I can only speak for myself when I tell you that I've seen and read a lot of material over the years in reference to this subject, but not the yellow journalism so often displayed against celebrities. I believe and like to think that I too am objective enough to separate fact from fiction. I have even seen interviews with Yoko herself. She a very difficult peson in general and difficult to understand (not linguistically). Eccentric would be another good word to describe her.

But it's all relative. People will always formulate their own opinions, see things differently. You're passionate about defending John and Yoko and people view them negatively with the same passion. It's a lose-lose debate, for John is dead and what we think of him makes no true difference and Yoko will be Yoko no matter what anyone thinks of her. She's stood the tests of time and has remained unchanged. If anything else, that proves she's a strong woman and strength in a woman is always a good thing, IMO. Oh, I also just proved that I can be open-minded.  ;)

Quoting:


Is this your assumption?

I can only speak for myself when I tell you that I've seen and read a lot of material over the years in reference to this subject, but not the yellow journalism so often displayed against celebrities. I believe and like to think that I too am objective enough to separate fact from fiction. I have even seen interviews with Yoko herself. She a very difficult peson in general and difficult to understand (not linguistically). Eccentric would be another good word to describe her.

But it's all relative. People will always formulate their own opinions, see things differently. You're passionate about defending John and Yoko and people view them negatively with the same passion. It's a lose-lose debate, for John is dead and what we think of him makes no true difference and Yoko will be Yoko no matter what anyone thinks of her. She's stood the tests of time and has remained unchanged. If anything else, that proves she's a strong woman and strength in a woman is always a good thing, IMO. Oh, I also just proved that I can be open-minded.  ;)
End Quote

Quoting:
J.C., yes I do believe that Charles Manson, Bin Laden and Hitler had good sides, they generally count as everyone.    
 
End Quote

Quoting:


To get on topic here if John Lennon lived, I think the good side to him would have been more evident because of Sean and the way things were going with him.
End Quote

And I think his bad side would have continued to stand out because of his treatment of  Julian his "Forgotten son."

Quoting:
I don't think you understand what I'm saying J.C.  I believe in heaven and hell, I believe people have good and bad sides.  i don't believe that thier good sides will be in heaven and their bad sides will be in hell?  How did you get that out of my post?  I believe everyone has goodness and badness stored in them and they can choose to let the goodness or badness be shown to the public.  If they decide to completely black out the good side and be someone like Manson, Hitler or Bin Laden then obviously, bad things will happen to them in the afterlife if you believe in that.  I'm not going to get into a big discussion with you about religion and heaven and hell because I have a feeling that certain things I believe in will offend your Christian beliefs and then those posts will be deleted so it is not worth it.  It is to my understanding that a person is ultimately punished or rewarded for the way they live their life, in that way I'm agreeing with you, I've never disagreed with you on that one.  I'm saying everyone has good sides, and I've gone over that in the post and other numerous times.

To get on topic here if John Lennon lived, I think the good side to him would have been more evident because of Sean and the way things were going with him.
End Quote

Quoting:
It's alright J.C., I haven't been hurt by your comments.  I actually feel it quite interesting to see the views of others on this board.  And it's good that we can finally get that across without starting a big fight.

Now, I hope no one has misunderstood me.  I don't believe people like Hitler, Bin Laden and Manson were good people - not at all.  I believe they had good sides to them like everyone, but through their actions they chose to let the bad side take reign of their body and in the end they will pay the ultimate price.  

I am by no means condoning this people, I hope everyone is clear on that.
End Quote

Quoting:
Exactly. After all... they knew what they were doing was bad. They had the chance to decide whether they wanted to be or not... etc etc.

End Quote

Quoting:
My opinion of John Lennon is he was a talented song writer and performer but not a very nice human being.What about the recent news items about the death of Stuart Sutclife? Apparently his brain haemorrage was caused by a dent in his skull consistent with the kick in the head that John Lennon gave him during one of the many jealous rages he was prone to at the time.As for yoko what a thoroughly unpleasent woman and barking mad too!
End Quote

Don't get me wrong but I believe John Lennon would possibly be a greater person if Yoko Ono hadn't come into his life. Cannot explain it, its just a gnawing feeling I get. Heard her songs on Double Fantasy. To quote from FBVP eeeergh.